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U.S. condemns 'provocative' Chinese activities near Taiwan


OverSword
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1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

I was cheering you on until that last sentence which does not seem so certain.  I hope for it, but it doesn't look like we are trying too hard to achieve that.

We don't have to try, read about all the repressing going on in China and you realize they're doing it to themselves.  Remember all those cities China built practically overnight?  They are empty and many are being torn down because the concrete they were using has too much sand.  The whole country is one big lack of QC and also have an aging population without enough young people to replace workers retiring in the next few years.  Pay attention. Paper Tiger I tell you.  Boogey man.  Just like Russia except at no point were they ever a military threat.

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4 hours ago, OverSword said:

We don't have to try, read about all the repressing going on in China and you realize they're doing it to themselves.  Remember all those cities China built practically overnight?  They are empty and many are being torn down because the concrete they were using has too much sand.  The whole country is one big lack of QC and also have an aging population without enough young people to replace workers retiring in the next few years.  Pay attention. Paper Tiger I tell you.  Boogey man.  Just like Russia except at no point were they ever a military threat.

China is doing it to themselves.  We are also doing a little self-destruction ourselves.

It is not really a zero sum game though.  China has profited immensely by selling inexpensive products across the world.  US companies  have done the same both by utilizing cheap labor and also maketining to the huge Chinese middle class.   The entire world is richer, more productive, and has a higher standard of living than it did a generation ago.  We compete that is true, but we also tap into the wealth of China  for our own purposes.

Military is cool, but everything doesn't get solved that way.  Sometimes it is a threat or bargaining chip more than a tool that will be used.  Military might is used as much for internal propaganda as external threats.  Not so different here, we feel comforted by a huge military budget.

We did not need to defeat the USSR militarily  although threat of our strong military forced them to spend way more than they had on their own defense. It was our economic power that outdistanced them and probably accelerated their collapse. 

I have no doubt we could destroy China in a war, but that also is just a threat more than a solution.    Chinese collapse if it comes will not make us great again, and we seem to be at each other's throats way too much to make ourselves great.

 

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8 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

China is doing it to themselves.  We are also doing a little self-destruction ourselves.

It is not really a zero sum game though.  China has profited immensely by selling inexpensive products across the world.  US companies  have done the same both by utilizing cheap labor and also maketining to the huge Chinese middle class.   The entire world is richer, more productive, and has a higher standard of living than it did a generation ago.  We compete that is true, but we also tap into the wealth of China  for our own purposes.

Military is cool, but everything doesn't get solved that way.  Sometimes it is a threat or bargaining chip more than a tool that will be used.  Military might is used as much for internal propaganda as external threats.  Not so different here, we feel comforted by a huge military budget.

We did not need to defeat the USSR militarily  although threat of our strong military forced them to spend way more than they had on their own defense. It was our economic power that outdistanced them and probably accelerated their collapse. 

I have no doubt we could destroy China in a war, but that also is just a threat more than a solution.    Chinese collapse if it comes will not make us great again, and we seem to be at each other's throats way too much to make ourselves great.

 

Regardless, in my opinion a population of non innovative repressed centrally controlled slaves is not an actual long term threat to the United States.

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Just now, OverSword said:

Regardless, in my opinion a population of non innovative repressed centrally controlled slaves is not an actual long term threat to the United States.

You might be underestimating their lack of innovation, but I understand what you mean.   I think you are missing the point though. If China fails by their own hand, it will still affect our economy negatively.  That is the threat, not their militarily power.  Right now we are on edge because of world wide supply chain issues and  a rise in prices.  Real world class economic collapse would probably push us over.

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

You might be underestimating their lack of innovation, but I understand what you mean.   I think you are missing the point though. If China fails by their own hand, it will still affect our economy negatively.  That is the threat, not their militarily power.  Right now we are on edge because of world wide supply chain issues and  a rise in prices.  Real world class economic collapse would probably push us over.

That is a frightening though, and it is the biggest fear Worldwide. But, the worst part of a scenario like that is the wars that would follow, wars that could end life as we know it!:(

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

That is a frightening though, and it is the biggest fear Worldwide. But, the worst part of a scenario like that is the wars that would follow, wars that could end life as we know it!

A worldwide economic  collapse would end life as we know it even if never a shot was fired.  Add to that increasing severity of weather events if climate change is an accurate predictor and we got real trouble ahead if both happen in the same generation.

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25 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

A worldwide economic  collapse would end life as we know it even if never a shot was fired.  Add to that increasing severity of weather events if climate change is an accurate predictor and we got real trouble ahead if both happen in the same generation.

Your right my friend we are certainly facing a future that is uncertain, but there will be shoots fired unfortunately. As resources begin to run out do to a economic collapse, where ever resources exist their will be those who will do anything to take them. In the worst case scenario allies will become enemies and this world will become a place where those who still possess the strength will take from the weak. This will create the wars I spoke about, and those wars will most likely become global where Nations will use any weapons at their disposal to keep what they have or to take what they want. 

I hope we are both wrong my friend, I hope we are both wrong. :(

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

I hope we are both wrong my friend, I hope we are both wrong.

Well that pretty well describes human history.  The question is did we learn anything?

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Well that pretty well describes human history.  The question is did we learn anything?

Unfortunately I don't think we have evolved to a point where our species is able to learn what we need too. Because if we were there at a point where we could learn, we would not be at the point we are right now. It's terrible place we have put ourselves in, we have taken our planet to the brink, and nature is showing us the error of our ways. When I say this I am talking about global warming, the destruction of countless other species and the biodiversity of the planet itself.

This Pandemic is a product of this and the people who have the power to change what's obviously wrong are more concerned about their personal and National aspersions and to many leaders don't even take what is occurring seriously like our last President. Sorry about having such a down attitude today, I try to stay optimistic but your earlier post really resonated with me today, and I started giving this some serious thought. 

But while we have breath there is always a chance, and there is nothing wrong with hope!:mellow:

Take Care my friend and I hope my negative attitude doesn't get you down. 

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14 hours ago, OverSword said:

Regardless, in my opinion a population of non innovative repressed centrally controlled slaves is not an actual long term threat to the United States.

Maybe... but their WEAPONS certainly are.  Let's just hope the slave masters remain sane and do not give in to the temptation to strike a hated enemy while they perceive that enemy to be weakened.  If the current regime try to keep Biden propped up for much longer, the man will be literally soiling himself in public.  It isn't funny any longer, it's getting dangerous.

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14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You might be underestimating their lack of innovation, but I understand what you mean.   I think you are missing the point though. If China fails by their own hand, it will still affect our economy negatively.  That is the threat, not their militarily power.  Right now we are on edge because of world wide supply chain issues and  a rise in prices.  Real world class economic collapse would probably push us over.

Well then I guess it's time to help India become a manufacturing giant.

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Well then I guess it's time to help India become a manufacturing giant.

I don't think they need our help.  How about making the US a 21st century manufacturing giant?

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2 hours ago, and then said:

Maybe... but their WEAPONS certainly are.  Let's just hope the slave masters remain sane and do not give in to the temptation to strike a hated enemy while they perceive that enemy to be weakened.  If the current regime try to keep Biden propped up for much longer, the man will be literally soiling himself in public.  It isn't funny any longer, it's getting dangerous.

Slow down old hoss.  For China, we are a competitor, a vital resource, and sometimes a roadblock, but not a hated enemy.   They can talk big to keep their population in line just like we have done and then make a deal that both sides claim to have won.

They have been working on us for a decade at least, and that has intensified over the last few years.   They don't need to face losing a military conflict when they can watch us split apart thanks to social media.  Maybe they even help a little bit like the Russians are purported to do.  They have proven capable of hacking our corporations and taking our data and trade secrets. 

They are bound to us as we are to them.  They need our money and our markets, they cannot afford for us to collapse totally, they need us to be viable for their own prosperity    They have targeted wisely and do not depend on our upper class and elites.   Their billions come from Walmart and Dollar Tree shoppers.  Maybe they calculate that even after civil conflicts there will still be enough poor left to keep the bargain stores afloat and elites left to own them.

 

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