Missing boy found by man 'instructed by God'

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

My friend would tell you that you were practicing black magic for praying that someone do something you wanted, rather than praying that your friend stay healthy or some other generic prayer.    I consider it rude and manipulative instead of black magic, but she does have a point, if you do not have permission to pray for someone (they didn't ask and you are praying for them to do something to make you feel better, you are not being honest or a "good person").  None of it has anything to do with god, but everything to do with you wanting to coerce your friend into something.

Some might say you're a cynical old biddy, seeing the worst in everyone but themselves, too. I wouldn't, 'though, that would be rude.

[+Desertrat56]

11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Some might say you're a cynical old biddy, seeing the worst in everyone but themselves, too. I wouldn't, 'though, that would be rude.

When it comes to prayer I am a cynical old biddy.   I am on my brother's churches "non believer's" prayer list, have been for years and at no time has my brother, who put my name there, ever asked me what I believe.   He has just decided I am going to burn in hell so he needs the brownie points to try to save me.    I understand prayer, I know how it works for me, it may be different for others.  Only the faithless pray for someone to do something or change something about themselves without their permission.   Maybe you mentioned praying for your friend to get the vaccine as a joke, I don't know.  It triggered me so I expressed myself and my opinion.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Desertrat56

[+Hammerclaw]

5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

When it comes to prayer I am a cynical old biddy.   I am on my brother's churches "non believer's" prayer list, have been for years and at no time has my brother, who put my name there, ever asked me what I believe.   He has just decided I am going to burn in hell so he needs the brownie points to try to save me.    I understand prayer, I know how it works for me.  Only the faithless pray for someone to do something or change something about themselves without their permission.   Maybe you mentioned praying for your friend to get the vaccine as a joke, I don't know.  It triggered me so I expressed myself and my opinion.

And I expressed myself back. The only thing you understand is yourself and poorly at that. I pray for people I care about, not wanting them to die. If you see something negative in that, you can go to hell.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[+Desertrat56]

9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

And I expressed myself back. The only thing you understand is yourself and poorly at that. I pray for people I care about, not wanting them to die. If you see something negative in that, you can go to hell.

What I see is you trying to control others asking your god to make them do what you want them to.  It has everything to do with what you want with no regard for what they want.   I know you are not my brother but that kind of prayer to make someone do something without discussing it with them is disrespectful.   Maybe instead of using your god/prayers to make people do what you want, you could talk to them and find out what they want or why they don't do what you want.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

What I see is you trying to control others asking your god to make them do what you want them to.  It has everything to do with what you want with no regard for what they want.   I know you are not my brother but that kind of prayer to make someone do something without discussing it with them is disrespectful.   Maybe instead of using your god/prayers to make people do what you want, you could talk to them and find out what they want or why they don't do what you want.

The problem with this is that you're acting like prayer works. 

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The problem with this is that you're acting like prayer works. 

I don't care whether prayer works or not, it is the disrespect that I am concerned with.  It doesn't matter whether prayer works or not, it is about the disrespect of  people who want prayer to work and instead of praying respectfully for their loved ones they pray for control of their loved ones based on misinformation, misunderstanding or just plain control issues.

And I know you want everyone to agree with you that nothing is real except the physical but people are allowed their beliefs.   I do think prayer works in certain circumstances but it has nothing to do with any deity.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Desertrat56

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

What I see is you trying to control others asking your god to make them do what you want them to.  It has everything to do with what you want with no regard for what they want.   I know you are not my brother but that kind of prayer to make someone do something without discussing it with them is disrespectful.   Maybe instead of using your god/prayers to make people do what you want, you could talk to them and find out what they want or why they don't do what you want.

Oh, aren't you so special, so adept at provoking and evoking the worst from a man! That's the story of your life, isn't it? Blaming anyone and everyone but yourself, clueless you are the author of your own misery. Now look at you now, picking a fight with a stranger on the internet. Pathetic.

[XenoFish]

Some times people offering to "pray for you", isn't them trying to bring you into a cult. It might just be a well meaning wish. 

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't care whether prayer works or not, it is the disrespect that I am concerned with.  It doesn't matter whether prayer works or not, it is about the disrespect of  people who want prayer to work and instead of praying respectfully for their loved ones they pray for control of their loved ones based on misinformation, misunderstanding or just plain control issues.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter. Plus no matter how much disrespect you feel, you can't control what they do. You choose to be offended by it. 

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Some times people offering to "pray for you", isn't them trying to bring you into a cult. It might just be a well meaning wish. 

It depends.  Praying that your friend will get vaccinated is not offering anything, it is determining something for your friend that is non of your business.  Praying that your friend is healthy is offering love for your friend.   You know the difference.   What exactly is the nit your are trying to pick?

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

According to some everything is black magick.

I always liked black magic as a kid.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

It depends.  Praying that your friend will get vaccinated is not offering anything, it is determining something for your friend that is non of your business.  Praying that your friend is healthy is offering love for your friend.   You know the difference.   What exactly is the nit your are trying to pick?

Your p*** poor attitude. 

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, XenoFish said:

If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter. Plus no matter how much disrespect you feel, you can't control what they do. You choose to be offended by it. 

Yes I do choose to be offended by it.  I said it is a trigger, everyone has them but most don't recognize them as such.   You seem to have a trigger on this subject as well.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Your p*** poor attitude. 

I'm the one with the p*** poor attitude?  Ok then.   

[XenoFish]

Praying that someone gets a shot or praying for their health is no different

 At the height of my depression, when I was suicidal. A few on here prayed for me. As it is said, it's the thought that counts.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes I do choose to be offended by it.  I said it is a trigger, everyone has them but most don't recognize them as such.   You seem to have a trigger on this subject as well.

That's where you're wrong. I see prayer as a personal thing. 

[+Desertrat56]

34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's where you're wrong. I see prayer as a personal thing. 

It is a personal thing and making in non-personal is using it to try to control others.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

It is a personal thing and making in non-personal is using it to try to control others.

That's under the assumption that prayer can magically influence another through indirect means. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by XenoFish

[+Desertrat56]

35 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's under the assumption that prayer can magically influence another through indirect means. 

Why would anyone pray if they don't assume that?

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why would anyone pray if they don't assume that?

My guess is that they assume they're doing a good thing. That if it is God's will it'll come to pass. I am assuming you believe that they are trying to somehow psychically manipulate you.

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

My guess is that they assume they're doing a good thing. That if it is God's will it'll come to pass. I am assuming you believe that they are trying to somehow psychically manipulate you.

When someone meddles in something that is none of their business it doesn't matter if it is through prayer or some other means.   The intent does have some non-physical repercussions and I know you need to believe that nothing exists except the physical.  The pendulum swings.   We on different pendulums.

[XenoFish]

14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

When someone meddles in something that is none of their business it doesn't matter if it is through prayer or some other means.   The intent does have some non-physical repercussions and I know you need to believe that nothing exists except the physical.  The pendulum swings.   We on different pendulums.

I practiced magick for near 30 years. Starting in 94'. Seen some weird **** over those years. However I have never seen anything that would prove that prayer works. You have this idea in your head that people are trying to force their will onto you. Yet, you haven't set foot in a church, right? 

Edited December 15, 2021 by XenoFish

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes I do choose to be offended by it.  I said it is a trigger, everyone has them but most don't recognize them as such.   You seem to have a trigger on this subject as well.

I think the good part is how you are embracing the trigger as an opportunity to explore deeper. I had the same trigger once and I can relate to your point because in some expressions of prayer it can feel more like micromanaging and judgmental, even for those that are well meaning and hands down these folks exist too. I think both Xeno and Hammer have good points too. 
 

Just my two cent.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I practiced magick for near 30 years. Starting in 94'. Seen some weird **** over those years. However I have never seen anything that would prove that prayer works. You have this idea in your head that people are trying to force their will onto you. Yet, you haven't set food in a church, right? 

I don't understand you point about not setting foot in a church.  It has been years since I have except for weddings and funerals.   When a neighbor and a cousin who go to the same church your brother does ask you about why your name is on the "unbelievers" prayer list, it feels like the person who put the name on that list is trying to force something, using their church "family" to enforce it.   Whether it works or not it is disrespect, sharing a personal issue between two people with a group of strangers.   That seems like an attempt to gain leverage to me.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

I don't understand you point about not setting foot in a church.  It has been years since I have except for weddings and funerals.   When a neighbor and a cousin who go to the same church your brother does ask you about why your name is on the "unbelievers" prayer list, it feels like the person who put the name on that list is trying to force something, using their church "family" to enforce it.   Whether it works or not it is disrespect, sharing a personal issue between two people with a group of strangers.   That seems like an attempt to gain leverage to me.

The thing is, is that you're emotionally invested in it. You've chosen to be offended, because I assume it makes you feel "less than". However, those feelings are a choice. You choose too feel insecure about something that really shouldn't matter.