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Woman raped on train as bystanders did nothing


el midgetron
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UPPER DARBY, Pa. (AP) — A woman was raped by a stranger on a commuter train in suburban Philadelphia in the presence of other riders who a police official said “should have done something."

Superintendent Timothy Bernhardt of the Upper Darby Police Department said officers were called to the 69th Street terminal around 10 p.m. Wednesday after the assault on the westbound train on the Market-Frankford Line.

An employee of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority who was in the vicinity as the train went past called police to report that “something wasn't right" with a woman aboard the train, Bernhardt said.

SEPTA police waiting at the next stop found the woman and arrested a man. The woman was taken to a hospital.

https://www.aol.com/news/woman-raped-train-bystanders-did-152752303-170735009.html

 

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Woman raped on train as bystanders did nothing

 

I've learned to turn a suspicious eye to dramatic headlines on the internet.

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SEPTA issued a statement calling it a “horrendous criminal act" and urging anyone witnessing such a thing to report it to authorities.

“There were other people on the train who witnessed this horrific act, and it may have been stopped sooner if a rider called 911," the authority said.

Somebody should've stopped it and then called 911 requesting paramedics.

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People are afraid...

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20190726-bystanderblogpost-scaled.jpg

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All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling and other people jump in to help. Especially if you look them straight in the eye and ask what is wrong with them. That is from first hand experience. I hope they see her face and hear her screams every time they close their eyes.

I could not sit or stand there and do nothing. I can't even ignore a wounded animal.

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43 minutes ago, joc said:

People are afraid...

It's not strictly fear. It's a psychological phenomenon called the Bystander Effect and was first studied after the brutal rape and murder of Kitty Genovese.

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Bystander effect, the inhibiting influence of the presence of others on a person’s willingness to help someone in need. Research has shown that, even in an emergency, a bystander is less likely to extend help when he or she is in the real or imagined presence of others than when he or she is alone. Moreover, the number of others is important, such that more bystanders leads to less assistance, although the impact of each additional bystander has a diminishing impact on helping.

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The bystander effect became a subject of significant interest following the brutal murder of American woman Kitty Genovese in 1964. Genovese, returning home late from work, was viciously attacked and sexually assaulted by a man with a knife while walking home to her apartment complex from a nearby parking lot. As reported in the The New York Times two weeks later, for over half an hour 38 respectable, law-abiding people heard or saw the man attack her three separate times. The voices and lights from the bystanders in nearby apartments interrupted the killer and frightened him off twice, but each time he returned and stabbed her again. None of the 38 witnesses called the police during the attack, and only one bystander contacted authorities after Kitty Genovese died.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect

Naturally, everyone is certain that they would intervene, but it's not as simple as that. You hear about it all the time: someone dying on the floor while people ignore or walk over the person.

Rather than blaming individuals, it's more of a reflection of society and how the concept of a 'good neighbour' becomes less and less valid the larger the population of an area - it's more likely to happen in a city than a small town.

It's actually a really interesting subject and some of the experiments that have been carried out are incredible to watch.

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A SEPTA employee did call 911 and the suspect was apprehended on the train. Unbelievable how people just ignored that this was happening and did nothing to help her. Didn't even call 911.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/10/16/woman-raped-on-el-train-in-upper-darby-while-others-stood-around-and-did-nothing-police-say/

The suspect faces charges and the victim was taken to the hospital for treatment. What a horrific experience.

https://www.fox29.com/news/man-facing-rape-charges-in-sexual-assault-aboard-crowded-septa-bus-police-say

Edited by susieice
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34 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's not strictly fear. It's a psychological phenomenon called the Bystander Effect and was first studied after the brutal rape and murder of Kitty Genovese.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect

Naturally, everyone is certain that they would intervene, but it's not as simple as that. You hear about it all the time: someone dying on the floor while people ignore or walk over the person.

Rather than blaming individuals, it's more of a reflection of society and how the concept of a 'good neighbour' becomes less and less valid the larger the population of an area - it's more likely to happen in a city than a small town.

It's actually a really interesting subject and some of the experiments that have been carried out are incredible to watch.

From what I read about it before some explanations are that it's the idea that the more people around the less responsibility you have because "someone will surely do something so I don't need to worry about it." Where's if it's only you and a person having a heart attack you are more likely to do something. Because if you don't no one will, because you're the only one there.

Or even the evolutionary innate behavior that if everyone is acting normal than what is happening must just be something normal. Despite what we like to think, we humans are social herd mentality animals. 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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39 minutes ago, Michelle said:

All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling and other people jump in to help. Especially if you look them straight in the eye and ask what is wrong with them. That is from first hand experience. I hope they see her face and hear her screams every time they close their eyes.

I could not sit or stand there and do nothing. I can't even ignore a wounded animal.

In a crisis situation just start telling people want to do, with clear simple task and they will do it.

"Hey you lady, call 911"

"Hey you two big young fellows help me stop this guy"

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Sometimes people do step in.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/police-say-fatal-shooting-in-downtown-calgary-happened-after-unwanted-advances-1.5622287

CALGARY - 

The victim in last weekend's fatal shooting outside a downtown Calgary nightclub was defending a friend from being sexually harassed, police said Wednesday.

Police were called to the 600 block of Eighth Avenue S.W. about 2:40 a.m. on Sunday, where they found John Mitchell Smith Jr. seriously injured. He was rushed to hospital, where he later died.

Investigators say Smith and a female friend had left the Junction Underground nightclub minutes earlier and two men who were loitering outside started making unwanted sexual advances and physical contact with her.

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's not strictly fear. It's a psychological phenomenon called the Bystander Effect and was first studied after the brutal rape and murder of Kitty Genovese.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect

Naturally, everyone is certain that they would intervene, but it's not as simple as that. You hear about it all the time: someone dying on the floor while people ignore or walk over the person.

Rather than blaming individuals, it's more of a reflection of society and how the concept of a 'good neighbour' becomes less and less valid the larger the population of an area - it's more likely to happen in a city than a small town.

It's actually a really interesting subject and some of the experiments that have been carried out are incredible to watch.

I get that.  Never heard of it but it makes total sense.  I didn't click on the link because I am just about to put hamburgers on the grill...but is the Bystander Effect caused by fear of what others might think?  I kind of have experienced that before I think.  Not fear but not wanting to be 'that guy' ...not in the sort of situation but just in crowds...kind of like holding your hand up when you know the answer but you don't because no one else is.  It is interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

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1 hour ago, joc said:

I get that.  Never heard of it but it makes total sense.  I didn't click on the link because I am just about to put hamburgers on the grill...but is the Bystander Effect caused by fear of what others might think?  I kind of have experienced that before I think.  Not fear but not wanting to be 'that guy' ...not in the sort of situation but just in crowds...kind of like holding your hand up when you know the answer but you don't because no one else is.  It is interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

Overcoming the bystander effect, particularly in yourself, is a major part of first aid and duty of care training here for teachers. It’s a very challenging thing to do, we imagine that in the Moment we’d act one way but … often we don’t.

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Overcoming the bystander effect, particularly in yourself, is a major part of first aid and duty of care training here for teachers. It’s a very challenging thing to do, we imagine that in the Moment we’d act one way but … often we don’t.

It is difficult for a lot of people. Others, I think are born to help any way they can.

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4 hours ago, Michelle said:

All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling and other people jump in to help. Especially if you look them straight in the eye and ask what is wrong with them. That is from first hand experience. I hope they see her face and hear her screams every time they close their eyes.

I could not sit or stand there and do nothing. I can't even ignore a wounded animal.

Exactly Michelle. Well said.

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Ridiculous that no one did anything, not even a 911 call. Sometimes you want this to be a crime itself.
I hope this guy rots in jail and meanwhile gets it himself in the shower a few times. 
I hope the lady recovers from this.
 

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This reminds me of a Bible story of the city of Belial. They should all be charged as associates of crime.

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12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Overcoming the bystander effect, particularly in yourself, is a major part of first aid and duty of care training here for teachers. It’s a very challenging thing to do, we imagine that in the Moment we’d act one way but … often we don’t.

I think that is key.  Imagine the moment.  In reality...we call that fantasy.  It's a hypothetical.  Philosophically, there is only one moment.  The moment...the only moment that can ever exist is the moment at hand.  In the world of reality, we call that...reality.  And of course, reality is not fantasy.  So, if we can live in the moment every moment...then the moment becomes...omg, this is my moment to stop this!  Like that guy on the hijacked plane on 911...Let's Roll.  Once someone actually acts, then everyone else kind of wakes up to act as well...but someone has to live in the moment.  

That being said, I think the Bystander Effect is not really about fear at all.   It's about that most people live in fantasy, either contemplating the past or anticipating the future...so when something happens, in the moment, they freeze, because the moment is all about right now and most people I think are about something else.  Same reason everyone is in a hurry...anticipation of the moment to come...instead of being in the moment.

 

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These things happen in America and elsewhere. There are gang related crimes, and one might wonder if there are other gang members on the train. Here is a bad UK example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-58544111

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Rauf, a father-of-five, trafficked a 15-year-old girl for sex, driving her to secluded areas to have sex with her in his taxi and ferry her to a flat in Rochdale where he and others also had sex with her.

He was jailed for six years and released in November 2014 after serving two years and six months of his sentence.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/

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One fact stands out above all the horrors detailed in the document, which is that the girl victims were white, and their abusers Pakistani.

 

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20 hours ago, joc said:

People are afraid...

Well you can intervene and after that getting screwed... For example, my brother and pals had taken a man out of a party with the security staff because he was sexually harassing and touching womens without their approval. The guy made a complaint to the university that they where racist and in his country doing that was normal. He won... security staff involved got dismissed. 

Right now, you can get screwed when you help people out. They could have acted fast and the guy would call the cops and say they are racist or they have assaulted him... they could have waitt and stop him in mid rape without knowing if the guy was armed killing one of them or the victim. In anycase, wating would have made the woman a victim anyway. Acting fast could have screwed them. It's hard to pull it right ans it's why people don't act.

Edited by Jon the frog
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Yeah, I get that too.  But...too consider the possibility of getting screwed one way or another, or of getting killed, i.e.  to process all of that and decide because of those factors to do nothing is equivalent to being afraid. 

So...then...take any one of those guys who were bystanders...any single one...but the scenario is that woman is their sister, or daughter, or wife...all that factoring just goes right out the window doesn't it?  Like the woman who ran after the mountain lion that was dragging her 4 year old away....

....

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Over the years I've found out I'm really clear-headed and focused in an emergency. After my part is over and the proper authorities arrive to take control I go find a secluded spot, almost curl up in a ball and cry. That's when it hits me how many things could have gone terribly wrong. 

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You don't have to get physically involved. If you are afraid to start a confrontation, and there's always a chance someone is armed, just move away and use your phone to call 911. 

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