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Self Esteem and Religion


Sherapy
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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, it's humbling yourself and hoping God will hear you, hoping there is a God to hear you and never having confirmation of any sort, only hope. It's not about being important, it's about tiny, insignificant little things crying out for help, all alone in the private darkness of their own souls. When someone you love is dying and you can't bear to let them go and in your crying out for any help, any help at all to save them, then, maybe, you'll understand what it's really like to be "religious".

Isn't that still ego driven? Even at the lowest point still believing that God will help. Place all hopes upon something when you're powerless and then expecting results of some type. 

Remember hammer, I was an occultist. Me communing with a God is nothing. I understand the magical thinking it takes. I also understand that a terribly finite creature will wish to bend reality to their will. Power for the powerless. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Isn't that still ego driven? Even at the lowest point still believing that God will help. Place all hopes upon something when you're powerless and then expecting results of some type. 

Remember hammer, I was an occultist. Me communing with a God is nothing. I understand the magical thinking it takes. I also understand that a terribly finite creature will wish to bend reality to their will. Power for the powerless. 

You weren't begging for anything, you were arrogant and sought control. A prayer is like rolling the dice, knowing the odds are heavily against you. You're begging when you pray, the very antithesis of egotism.

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From my personal expierence I've seen alot of people use religion to feed their narcissism. 

When everything you do is part of gods plan, than inherently everything you do is always right and never a mistake.

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16 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 An interesting article, interested in posters thoughts. All voices are welcome.
 

 

“The researchers offered a possible explanation for their finding: Religious people feel better about themselves in religious countries not because they're religious, but simply because they fit in with the crowd.”
 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/religion-happiness_n_1219295

 


 

 

This makes sense to me.

The example that comes to my mind is a Muslim girl going to school with a hijab and being the only girl there who does that.

It probably feels more isolating than if everyone was doing that and believed what you did.

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3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

From my personal expierence I've seen alot of people use religion to feed their narcissism. 

When everything you do is part of gods plan, than inherently everything you do is always right and never a mistake.

But the thing is, narcissists have very low self esteem.   The world is supposed to revolve around them but it never does.

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2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You weren't begging for anything, you were arrogant and sought control. A prayer is like rolling the dice, knowing the odds are heavily against you. You're begging when you pray, the very antithesis of egotism.

A pray is merely a request for divine assistance. There is still a selfish desire at the heart of it. Even if said prayer is for another. A wish that one seek to have fulfilled. 

Granted I understand there are levels of believers. From the thoughtful to the self-righteous. 

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Not just religion but any ideology that can boost a person sense of self worth/esteem has a echo chamber to go along with. Many devote themselves to that safety net. Even if the results are toxic. Even if they can't see it.

No one is 100% free of dogmatism. 

Edited by XenoFish
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5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

A pray is merely a request for divine assistance. There is still a selfish desire at the heart of it. Even if said prayer is for another. A wish that one seek to have fulfilled. 

Granted I understand there are levels of believers. From the thoughtful to the self-righteous. 

Any kind kind of conscious human action, above that of automatous bodily functions, is a product of self and ego. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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narcissism
[ˈnärsəˌsizəm]
 
NOUN
  1. excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
    • psychology
      selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.
    • psychoanalysis
      self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder.
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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:
narcissism
[ˈnärsəˌsizəm]
 
NOUN
  1. excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
    • psychology
      selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.
    • psychoanalysis
      self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder.

Is this posted in reference to my comment ?

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1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Is this posted in reference to my comment ?

I think it was prep work for the soon appearance of the google  sorcerer of thread hijacking.

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Just now, spartan max2 said:

Is this posted in reference to my comment ?

Not yours, actually. I only do this when I see the use of a word, seemingly at odds with my understanding of it. Sometimes it's self-illuminating.

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Just now, XenoFish said:

I think it was prep work for the soon appearance of the google  sorcerer of thread hijacking.

Nope.:P

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Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Nope.:P

My psychic powers fail me.:cry::lol:

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Just now, XenoFish said:

My psychotic powers fail me.:cry::lol:

Fixed that for you.:yes:

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4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not yours, actually. I only do this when I see the use of a word, seemingly at odds with my understanding of it. Sometimes it's self-illuminating.

Well that's certainly the most round-about way I've ever heard someone say they disagree with my post :lol: lol.

We could go into further detail if you want to discuss it.

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1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Well that's certainly the most round-about way I've ever heard someone say they disagree with my post :lol: lol.

We could go into further detail if you want to discuss it.

Not about your post, at all. There certainly are a lot predestination Christians, of which I am not one. I'm of the faith, free will variety.

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1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

What is self-esteem?

Well we develop an identity during childhood (who we see ourselves as being). If we then encounter someone who says something negative about us that conflicts with our identity, we reject it.

Self-esteem issues arise when we didnt develop that stable identity and is usually due to psychological/emotional abusive parenting. It means we dont filter out the negativity we encounter. As such, a person with this type of identity disorder focuses on gaining validation. That is other people telling them positive things about themselves while not saying anything negative. Thats Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Or as I prefer to call it bi-polar with their identity. Their identity is constantly pulled here, there, and everywhere, causing them moments of perfect God like delusional thinking followed by moments of deep despair. Religion has nothing to do with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 

All psychopaths are narcissistic, and then there are the people with just the narcissism. Both seek out validation. This can be gained in many ways and can include a range of options from being religious (to gain moral perfection) to being politicians (to gain power and thereby confirm perfection). But we are dealing with a small percentage of the population. Most people who are religious are not psychopaths or suffering from NPD.

 

A parent is the most integral aspect of developing self worth in their children. This point is the most undervalued misunderstood point in discussions of this nature. Attachment theory is integral specifically, understanding that secure attachment is the best way to achieve self worth this is not limited to but, includes spending quality time, giving attention, telling your child how loved and valued they are, giving them and honoring their voice, their experiences, sharing and having fun together, spending a lot of time with them, answering all their cries as an infant, understanding the stages of development and adapting ones parenting as warranted and never ever compromising a child’s trust by hitting them in fact, it is by far the worse thing a parent can do to a child. The best approach one can apply these days ( we have come along way in child development) to lay a foundation of self worth in their children is to build a relationship of trust if a child feels safe and their needs are met by the parent or caregiver this is by far the best thing anyone can do to ensure and lay a foundation of resilience and self worth for a lifetime. 
 

According to attachment gurus of our time such as,  Dr. Karyn Purvis, Dr. Dan Siegel and Dr. Bruce Perry, “secure attachments are instrumental in building self-esteem and worth.”
 

I do not rule out that there may be those that are drawn to certain expressions of Religious beliefs that do use god as an fantasized attachment figure to meet the needs no one  else has. Typically, over and beyond a securely attached psyche other than situations or circumstantial such as caring for a parent or chronically ill child if one is securely attached they do not “need” or seek out a fantasized attachment figure. A note on the narcissist, more often than not they have suffered a lot of rejection, it is an extreme coping mechanism. 

Edited by Sherapy
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27 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

This makes sense to me.

The example that comes to my mind is a Muslim girl going to school with a hijab and being the only girl there who does that.

It probably feels more isolating than if everyone was doing that and believed what you did.

Great point. 

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40 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

From my personal expierence I've seen alot of people use religion to feed their narcissism. 

When everything you do is part of gods plan, than inherently everything you do is always right and never a mistake.

I can certainly see being drawn to some expressions of religion as a narcissist (full of themselves) or a martyr type, (the proverbial door mat). For some suffering like Jesus is a cool gig. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Sherapy
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5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I can certainly see being drawn to some expressions of religion as a narcissist (full of themselves) or a martyr type, (the proverbial door mat). For some suffering like Jesus is a cool gig. Just my 2 cents.

That would give them a sense of importance. 

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6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I can certainly see being drawn to some expressions of religion as a narcissist (full of themselves) or a martyr type, (the proverbial door mat). For some suffering like Jesus is a cool gig. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, it varies. I definitely also know some very devote christians who work hard to follow the teachings and check themselves to be humble.

Just the narcissistic ones stand out because they annoy me haha

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25 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Yeah, it varies. I definitely also know some very devote christians who work hard to follow the teachings and check themselves to be humble.

Just the narcissistic ones stand out because they annoy me haha

Good point, there are definitely those that use their faith or path to be humble. 
 

“n. the quality of being humble, characterized by a low focus on the self, an accurate (not over- or underestimated) sense of one’s accomplishments and worth, and an acknowledgment of one’s limitations, imperfections, mistakes, gaps in knowledge, and so on.’ 

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33 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Just the narcissistic ones stand out because they annoy me haha

They annoy all of us.

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self esteem by its name, is derived from the self.

the self is but a mental notion we are gifted from our family and society, comprised and unified with our experience of awareness that arises from our utterly personal experience of life via our perceptual modeling of the external world through sensory input and mental production/interpretation.

 

any aspect that is derived from outside one's experience of life, is an admission that the self is intimately expressed through ammalgamation of the aggregates of the co-arising qualities of manifest reality and an admission that the limited self, is a direct propogation of the environmental self, i.e. the universe.

 

we are none of us, individuals, separate from anything.  ever. 

the skin that seemed to separate me from the 'rest of reality' years ago, is now realized as the bridge of interactivity connecting me to the rest of perceived reality.

 

we are a flowing patterned verbs, not static nouns.

ever shifting and flowing in congruence and resistence to what impacts us, given the influence of the energies of all that we do not define personally as our 'self'. 

our bodies, are not individual units of nouns, static and unchanging; they are fluid a collective of 4-5 trillion individual cells working in cohesion and shifting in each micro-moment.

one fluid ocean, comprised of endless droplets arising and self organizing in patterns that resond to the influence within the overall oceanic flow of influences existent in the universal whole.

Edited by quiXilver
refined wording in the last sentence
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