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If we live in a simulation, how much computer memory does it need ?


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11 minutes ago, UM-Bot said:

Storing a simulation of the entire universe is likely to require more memory than your average video game.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/352238/if-we-live-in-a-simulation-how-much-computer-memory-does-it-need

I'm thinking that not every single atom in the observable universe would need to be in memory.  Only the ones that we are likely to actually have interaction with.  For example, the Andromeda Galaxy.  That galaxy would not have to be much more than the simulation of radio waves that tell us about it and a simple three dimensional image simulating the amount of detail that we can observe.  

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm thinking that not every single atom in the observable universe would need to be in memory.  Only the ones that we are likely to actually have interaction with.  For example, the Andromeda Galaxy.  That galaxy would not have to be much more than the simulation of radio waves that tell us about it and a simple three dimensional image simulating the amount of detail that we can observe.  

True, it could be like the background graphics in a video game - just because you can see the stars, doesn't mean that there are detailed reconstructions of them in the game's code. If we lived in a simulation, there would be no need to store much data about anything much beyond our own solar system (at least for now).

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If we live inside a sophisticated computer simulation what happens if a computer attacks by a virus?

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

I guess it all depends on how many brains in a jar you're simulating for.

The chances of me finding my keys where I thought I left them are slim, even on a good day.

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3 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

I guess it all depends on how many brains in a jar you're simulating for.

If it's just brains in jars. Like actual brains in jars. Then it might be more of a neural network where "reality" is just a collective dream. So the whole system might be a combination of life support and just enough tech to limit the dream reality. 

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When I think of all the things that they don't have to simulate, but just have to "suggest", it seems the demand for memory is a lot smaller than we'd imagine. They can just run a small probability algorithm when we look into deep space, for instance. Then send a few photons to the telescope. Job done, and we're none the wiser.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If it's just brains in jars. Like actual brains in jars. Then it might be more of a neural network where "reality" is just a collective dream. So the whole system might be a combination of life support and just enough tech to limit the dream reality. 

Maybe we're all just uploads. No wetware required.
 

 

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1 minute ago, Tiggs said:

Maybe we're all just uploads. No wetware required.
 

 

It would probably take something like a Jupiter Brain to simulate our reality.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
31 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It would probably take something like a Jupiter Brain to simulate our reality.

Maybe. Maybe a Dyson Sphere. Maybe a network of them. Maybe a lot less. Depends who it's being simulated for, and for what purpose.

For any entities within the simulation -- the speed of the simulation would appear constant, regardless if it's calculated in real time, or at one millisecond per Millennium.

Remove the processing speed requirement -- and the only real heavy computational requirement is the amount of storage required to model the simulation.

And given we're not all observing quantum level effects on a regular basis -- Newton's Laws will get you there for bigger objects, and for much less overall storage.

So, I guess what it really comes down to is -- how much information is actually being observed -- and by whom?

It's the old "If a tree falls in a forest, and no-one's there..." thing.

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9 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Maybe. Maybe a Dyson Sphere. Maybe a network of them. Maybe a lot less. Depends who it's being simulated for, and for what purpose.

For any entities within the simulation -- the speed of the simulation would appear constant, regardless if it's calculated in real time, or at one millisecond per Millennium.

Remove the processing speed requirement -- and the only real heavy computational requirement is the amount of storage required to model the simulation.

And given we're not all observing quantum level effects on a regular basis -- Newton's Laws will get you there for bigger objects, and for much less overall storage.

So, I guess what it really comes down to is -- how much information is actually being observed -- and by whom?

It's the old "If a tree falls in a forest, and no-one's there..." thing.

Unless we are just thoughts inside a boltzmann brain.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Unless we are just thoughts inside a boltzmann brain.

Maybe. Universe seems a bit on the young side for that, statistically speaking -- but on the other hand -- how would you be able to tell?

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If it's just brains in jars. Like actual brains in jars. Then it might be more of a neural network where "reality" is just a collective dream. So the whole system might be a combination of life support and just enough tech to limit the dream reality. 

One of the misconceptions common is that the universe is simulated and we are somehow not.  In the simulation model everything including the people are a simulation.

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Here is my cynical post that contributes little to what I consider is an aimless thread based loosely on a superficial article that makes a barely literate attempt to narrate some irrelevant speculation about an ill-considered notion derived from multiple hypothetical concepts.  But it taps into a fundamental uneasiness about ourselves, our fates, the actual reality of our existence.  

Presumably this simulation we're in is coded well enough that we can't ever prove or disprove it's there.  Logically, the aliens who designed 'us' might also be Sims, unaware they're in someone else's computer, and so on.  We quickly reach the point where it's far easier to believe the Universe is just a (big) quantum fluctuation that exploded out of nothing, is expanding into nothing, and will one day destroy itself back into nothing.

Anyway, that bloke's maths is all wrong.  I've done my own calculations and my answer is well bigger than his.  

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1 minute ago, OverSword said:

One of the misconceptions common is that the universe is simulated and we are somehow not.  In the simulation model everything including the people are a simulation.

Personally I think I'm done giving a crap about this idea. 

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57 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It would probably take something like a Jupiter Brain to simulate our reality.

 

25 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Maybe. Maybe a Dyson Sphere. Maybe a network of them. Maybe a lot less. Depends who it's being simulated for, and for what purpose.

For any entities within the simulation -- the speed of the simulation would appear constant, regardless if it's calculated in real time, or at one millisecond per Millennium.

Remove the processing speed requirement -- and the only real heavy computational requirement is the amount of storage required to model the simulation.

And given we're not all observing quantum level effects on a regular basis -- Newton's Laws will get you there for bigger objects, and for much less overall storage.

So, I guess what it really comes down to is -- how much information is actually being observed -- and by whom?

It's the old "If a tree falls in a forest, and no-one's there..." thing.

I read a book by Walter Jon Williams titled Implied Spaces in which humanity used a powerful computer to make pocket universes.  The computer was solar powered and was an ultra thin ring around the sun between Earth and Venus.

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2 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

If we live inside a sophisticated computer simulation what happens if a computer attacks by a virus?

Quite possibly we have proof its a simulation..Justin Bieber could be that virus. It explains alot...

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6 minutes ago, Tom1200 said:

Presumably this simulation we're in is coded well enough that we can't ever prove or disprove it's there.  Logically, the aliens who designed 'us' might also be Sims, unaware they're in someone else's computer, and so on.  We quickly reach the point where it's far easier to believe the Universe is just a (big) quantum fluctuation that exploded out of nothing, is expanding into nothing, and will one day destroy itself back into nothing.

Yeah, part of the theory is that the simulations eventually evolve to create their own simulations which is part of the reason that if you accept that simulated realities will one day be created then mathematically the chances of we being from the original reality is near zero.

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The only thing I doubt is our ability to ever have solid proof of it even if we were. Pretty much the same type of proof to verify life after death. Or where the universe starts or begins. We are along for the ride. The only clue we have is buried in our own DNA

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It might take less memory than that, as there is another version of this simulation theory where the only thing being processed is what is being observed/interacted with, whilr the rest is just background simulation for the very large and even that is limited to what is being observed/studied.

For example there was no need to simulate galaxies as there was no concept of galaxies, but it was already expected in the simulation, just like other solar systems, there was no need to simulate them as that the best of that time was that stars were just bright spots at the night sky. This would heavely reduced calculations and memory requirements.

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13 hours ago, ercbreeze said:

Here we go again with this nonsense.  What would be the purpose?  All that work for what?  

So many reasons couldn't begin to list possibilities as to why, oh ye of little imagination.  As far as all that work, again little imagination.  A civilization capable of creating a very complex simulation would have had the bulk of the programing done by AI, so not too much work., probably just outlining parameters.

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I don't get it.   A simulation of what?  Matter?  At this instant i could choose ,from hundreds of options, what to think ,or do, next.  Real choices with real results...not simulated choices with simulated results.   It makes absolutely no sence to me.

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On 11/4/2021 at 6:35 PM, UM-Bot said:

Storing a simulation of the entire universe is likely to require more memory than your average video game.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/352238/if-we-live-in-a-simulation-how-much-computer-memory-does-it-need

What if we are all citizens of a super advanced civilization.

And we are the ones in prison for being naughty? The memory and processors needed would be those required to create a convincing experience of life four ourselves and the other inmates.

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On 11/5/2021 at 12:07 PM, godnodog said:

It might take less memory than that, as there is another version of this simulation theory where the only thing being processed is what is being observed/interacted with, whilr the rest is just background simulation for the very large and even that is limited to what is being observed/studied.

For example there was no need to simulate galaxies as there was no concept of galaxies, but it was already expected in the simulation, just like other solar systems, there was no need to simulate them as that the best of that time was that stars were just bright spots at the night sky. This would heavely reduced calculations and memory requirements.

There is another possibility.

A simulated computer capable of using its AI to extend its simulation, and it creates our universe.

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