Woman's late friend communicated with her from beyond the grave

[Eldorado]

A woman has revealed how she believes her late best friend communicated with her twice from beyond the grave in an eerie story that's difficult to explain away with logic.

Laura, from Devon, spoke to BBC Radio 4 podcast Uncanny about how she saw a vision of her friend Anna in a park, moments before learning she had lost her battle with cancer. 

Six years later, Laura met a medium who repeated Anna's dying words despite never having met either of the two women previously.

MSN

[Silver]

Chris seems a typical minimifidian, always looking for a down-side.

[papageorge1]

6 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Chris seems a typical minimifidian, always looking for a down-side.

Like how many cases of similar things before do we need to see to see a pattern? After hearing a thousand cases that  seem unreasonable to just dismiss in the realm of the 'known'........

 

[papageorge1]

This seeing of an apparition of someone near the time of their death is an experience I have heard reported many many times. I learned it has been labeled “Peak in Darien” Experiences. Here's a paper on the subject called 'Seeing Dead People Not Known to Have Died: “Peak in Darien” Experiences.

SUMMARY The ubiquitous belief that, after death, our consciousness might persist in some discarnate form is fueled in part by phenomena like near-death experiences (NDEs) and deathbed visions, mystical experiences reported on the threshold of death. Some NDEs, called “Peak in Darien” experiences, include visions of deceased people who are not known at the time to be dead. Cases of this kind provide some of the most persuasive evidence for the survival of consciousness after bodily death. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by papageorge1

[psyche101]

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Like how many cases of similar things before do we need to see to see a pattern?

One.

That provides solid evidence. 

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

After hearing a thousand cases that  seem unreasonable to just dismiss in the realm of the 'known'........

No. It's very reasonable. To say so many occurrences leave no trace of evidence behind is unreasonable to just support common anecdotes. 

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

To say so many occurrences leave no trace of evidence behind is unreasonable to just support common anecdotes. 

What evidence would you expect for an apparition you see that disappears like in this OP? If it happened, I would expect only testimonial evidence. Enough quantity, quality and consistency of testimonial evidence and the likelihood of this phenomena  'Seeing Dead People Not Known to Have Died: “Peak in Darien” Experiences  deserves serious consideration by any rational person.

[+joc]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

One.

That provides solid evidence. 

No. It's very reasonable. To say so many occurrences leave no trace of evidence behind is unreasonable to just support common anecdotes. 

Show me one undeniable solid evidence of one person levitating a single grain of salt...with their mind.  And I will pray to them!   

[papageorge1]

23 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

One.

That provides solid evidence. 

No. It's very reasonable. To say so many occurrences leave no trace of evidence behind is unreasonable to just support common anecdotes. 

And for the second part of the story a medium knowing information not reasonably learned through normal channels will also not be expected to leave evidence beyond the testimony of a person that knew the deceased.

Edited November 12, 2021 by papageorge1

[+joc]

7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

And for the second part of the story a medium knowing information not reasonably learned through normal channels will also not be expected to leave evidence beyond the testimony of a person than knew the deceased.

Did Jesus tell you that?

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Did Jesus tell you that?

???? You OK?   No, normal reasoning skills told me that.

[psyche101]

34 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

What evidence would you expect for an apparition you see that disappears like in this OP?

At the very least, proof of the claim from years ago and proof it wasn't previously submitted to the so called medium would have been something. 

34 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

If it happened, I would expect only testimonial evidence. Enough quantity, quality and consistency of testimonial evidence and the likelihood of this phenomena  'Seeing Dead People Not Known to Have Died: “Peak in Darien” Experiences  deserves serious consideration by any rational person.

Why? 

You give zero consideration to the physics that refute the predetermined conclusion the article is based upon.

[psyche101]

42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

And for the second part of the story a medium knowing information not reasonably learned through normal channels will also not be expected to leave evidence beyond the testimony of a person than knew the deceased.

Is a claim. From proponents. 

That's called preaching to the paranormal choir. 

[psyche101]

33 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

???? You OK?   No, normal reasoning skills told me that.

You're reasoning is broken.

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Is a claim. From proponents. 

That's called preaching to the paranormal choir. 

Did you read the article? The experiencer was an atheist that despised that the medium knew the personal last words. 

Quote

 

When she came back to hurry her friends along, the medium turned to her with a very specific message. 

Laura recalled she said: '"I'm really glad you came back because there was a woman with red hair here for you but she told me not to reach out to you during the show because you would have rejected it. But she told me to tell you, "keep partying Laura Bear".'

But the message was 'totally unwelcome'. 'I was absolutely furious. I didn't say anything. I didn't say a word.'

 

 

[Helen of Annoy]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:56 AM, psyche101 said:

You're reasoning is broken.

I think papa's reasoning here is sound.

It's not uncommon to see an apparition/have a vision/sudden thoughts about someone who is dying/just died. Reports are countless. 

But there will be no material proof. Ever. 

All the experiences may be dismissed as imagination of one person, collective hysteria if there are more witnesses to the phenomena, coincidence etc. Or you may allow telepathy and clairvoyance but not ghosts etc. 

Explanations (or denial) is a matter of personal opinion, but it doesn't make the phenomenon non-existent. Even if you think it's psychiatric/social in nature, not paranormal. So in my opinion, it would be more objective to conclude that this phenomenon does exist. It's equally intriguing to think human brain (not just human, animals often "know" about deaths that happened away from their material eyes) can generate images that express "knowledge" acquired through unexplained process, as it is to think there're ghosts. Maybe even more intriguing.   

[fran123]

Some years ago a very close friend had a massive stroke. The place where he and his family lived had a fairly modern hospital but in those days it did not have the facilities to treat his condition. He was taken to a hospital that had them, a considerable distance away, too far for his family to go.

They knew, sadly, there really was no hope for him and all they could do was keep in contact with the hospital by phone. The family, his wife and their three daughters were sitting in the living room. His wife and two daughters on one side of the room, the eldest daughter facing them.. Suddenly the eldest daughter stared at something that appeared behind the mother and the two girls. One of the girls sitting beside her mother asked what she was looking at and the reply was, it was their father. A few seconds later the phone went. It was the hospital to tell them he had died. 

Can I prove what they said happened? No of course not but these are very genuine people who would not have told me that if they hadn't experienced it.

[+ouija ouija]

Some years ago I had a dream in which my friend's partner came to my home and said " C. has had an accident but you don't need to worry because she's going to be fine". The next day I had a phone call from him explaining that the day before, my friend was riding her horse when it reared up and fell backwards onto her. The horse then rolled over her . . . . crushing her protective helmet. I felt sick when she showed it to me later! My friend spent some time in hospital but eventually recovered.

[psyche101]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:08 PM, papageorge1 said:

Did you read the article? The experiencer was an atheist that despised that the medium knew the personal last words. 

 

Less convincing than ever. How many paranormal claims start out with

I used to be a skeptic.

I call BS. You're using the story to verify the story. Bad practice that. 

[papageorge1]

Just now, psyche101 said:

Less convincing than ever. How many paranormal claims start out with

I used to be a skeptic.

I call BS. You're using the story to verify the story. Bad practice that. 

So if it is a believer you'll call BS.

If it is a skeptic you'll call BS.

Got ya.

[psyche101]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:46 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

I think papa's reasoning here is sound.

That's a massive red flag right there Helen. 

On 11/14/2021 at 9:46 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

It's not uncommon to see an apparition/have a vision/sudden thoughts about someone who is dying/just died. Reports are countless. 

So are explanations though. That leaves anecdotes as a matter of choice. 

On 11/14/2021 at 9:46 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

But there will be no material proof. Ever. 

Them with all due respect the idea is completely dismissable. It can't ever progress beyond myth. 

On 11/14/2021 at 9:46 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

All the experiences may be dismissed as imagination of one person, collective hysteria if there are more witnesses to the phenomena, coincidence etc. Or you may allow telepathy and clairvoyance but not ghosts etc. 

Explanations (or denial) is a matter of personal opinion, but it doesn't make the phenomenon non-existent. Even if you think it's psychiatric/social in nature, not paranormal. So in my opinion, it would be more objective to conclude that this phenomenon does exist. It's equally intriguing to think human brain (not just human, animals often "know" about deaths that happened away from their material eyes) can generate images that express "knowledge" acquired through unexplained process, as it is to think there're ghosts. Maybe even more intriguing.   

If material explanations don't satisfy, I really can't see how invoking myths are a better option or likely to be correct. Ghosts premonition and general life after death stuff is all based on myths that people have concluded as true based in the most circumstantial flimsy evidence. Such as that shadow was someone I knew who just passed away, or the bird in the windowsill that flew away at the moment of death carried the soul away. I definitely recognise that shadowy apparition as a grandparent. Etc etc. 

Always from people in deep grief. Often associated with some belief system. I don't find that a solid ground for hypothesis. 

[psyche101]

17 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

So if it is a believer you'll call BS.

If it is a skeptic you'll call BS.

Got ya.

Yeah.

I'm not big on anecdotes. Actual evidence is what is required. 

Ghost stories are soooo loch Ness monster these days. 

[Helen of Annoy]

@psyche101 It's universal, people from all cultures and backgrounds report similar experiences. Sometimes, often, they make too much sense to be written off (in my opinion) as wishful thinking or coincidence. 

See ouija's example below. 

 

On 11/14/2021 at 2:42 PM, ouija ouija said:

Some years ago I had a dream in which my friend's partner came to my home and said " C. has had an accident but you don't need to worry because she's going to be fine". The next day I had a phone call from him explaining that the day before, my friend was riding her horse when it reared up and fell backwards onto her. The horse then rolled over her . . . . crushing her protective helmet. I felt sick when she showed it to me later! My friend spent some time in hospital but eventually recovered.

Very intriguing. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

 

 

[psyche101]

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

@psyche101 It's universal, people from all cultures and backgrounds report similar experiences. Sometimes, often, they make too much sense to be written off (in my opinion) as wishful thinking or coincidence. 

Sharing stories is cultural though. Most successful cultures have common items such as creator's, spectres and demons. 

I find that more reason to see commonality in conclusion than independent claims of things that cannot be repeated or explained rationally. In fact I can't see how that's not the most likely conclusion. 

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

See ouija's example below. 

 

Very intriguing. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

Meh.

These stories can sound intriguing when much more is left out. 

For instance, as a teenager I worked on a farm. One morning I was dreaming that an arm on the scarifier had snapped. I woke the the sound of a roaring tractor and my step father came in rather upset that the scarifier arm had broken. He was out in the field and I was asleep. How could I dream that up? 

Unless I knew a few weeks before that the arm had been bent in an accident. I had an idea it's life was limited. But how did I know it was going to be that morning? Rather than the paranormal it seems obvious to me that as sound carries on an early country morning that in my sleep I probably heard the tractor stop and my step father swear at it. My brain could easily have cobbled that together in sleep mode, when the brain is organising information and put the obvious together. 

It think a great deal of stories are told to sound enigmatic when they are not. They really do need to come with a grain of salt. 

[+ouija ouija]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Sharing stories is cultural though. Most successful cultures have common items such as creator's, spectres and demons. 

I find that more reason to see commonality in conclusion than independent claims of things that cannot be repeated or explained rationally. In fact I can't see how that's not the most likely conclusion. 

Meh.

These stories can sound intriguing when much more is left out. 

For instance, as a teenager I worked on a farm. One morning I was dreaming that an arm on the scarifier had snapped. I woke the the sound of a roaring tractor and my step father came in rather upset that the scarifier arm had broken. He was out in the field and I was asleep. How could I dream that up? 

Unless I knew a few weeks before that the arm had been bent in an accident. I had an idea it's life was limited. But how did I know it was going to be that morning? Rather than the paranormal it seems obvious to me that as sound carries on an early country morning that in my sleep I probably heard the tractor stop and my step father swear at it. My brain could easily have cobbled that together in sleep mode, when the brain is organising information and put the obvious together. 

It think a great deal of stories are told to sound enigmatic when they are not. They really do need to come with a grain of salt. 

That doesn't compare to my experience as posted above. As per usual you are attempting deflection because you have no valid explanation

[Helen of Annoy]

@psyche101 It's true that people often make a correct guess, which may seem precognitive or you-name-it, but ouija had no way of guessing that it was the day when her friend will be thrown off a horse.  

That phenomenon is immensely more complex than the usual dismissal. If something is meaningful while coincidental, it can't be a coincidence anymore. Meaningfulness makes it not a coincidence.