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'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'


c.s.lewis

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3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The only source they have is the book. They can't prove anything they say concerning it's origins or content. They simply choose to believe. 

Agreed, but I think Sherapy is trying to determine what is even being proposed or claimed.  The link Will provided for the Midway Creatures is pretty, well, far out.  I can see why hippies in the 60s were into it.

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Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, but I think Sherapy is trying to determine what is even being proposed or claimed.  The link Will provided for the Midway Creatures is pretty, well, far out.  I can see why hippies in the 60s were into it.

It's right out there with being a 32nd Degree Mason and a Knight Templar. I still have my secret decoder ring.

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2 hours ago, Will Due said:

ACTING under the supervision of a commission of twelve members of the United Brotherhood of Urantia Midwayers, conjointly sponsored by the presiding head of our order and the Melchizedek of record, I am the secondary midwayer of onetime attachment to the Apostle Andrew, and I am authorized to place on record the narrative of the life transactions of Jesus of Nazareth as they were observed by my order of earth creatures, and as they were subsequently partially recorded by the human subject of my temporal guardianship.

OK, you're gonna have to help me here. What I thought I was being told by the above is that the UB Jesus story is some kind of Gospel according to Andrew (= brother of Peter, and according to John a one-time disciple of John the Baptist who interested his brother in Jesus).

Is that anything like what the above means?

But then

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

Scroll all the way down to the last three paragraphs of paper 121 for their acknowledgement.

So I did, and that's a long drink of water, and now I get the feeling that the UB's Jesus narrative is a selection from all kinds of written materials, including but not limited to the canonical gospels. For example, the last sentence of the third and final paragraph:

Quote

In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.

OK, so back to the empty tomb, the earliest authors we know of don't know what happened; what better sources do the Urantia book authors have? Maybe a single concrete example of such a superior source would be a good place to start, and if that thing isn't explained all in one place in the UB, then maybe an explanation in your own words would be better than hopping around the book.

I appreciate that you're trying, and in turn I'm trying to make it as simple as possible: focusing on one specific incident, and now seeking just one specific superior source that we can discuss and evaluate, and a concise self-contained explanantion of that source, either the book's or even better, your own.

Edited by eight bits
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25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The only source they have is the book. They can't prove anything they say concerning it's origins or content. They simply choose to believe.

 Urantia United

 

It does say it is a supernal source.

 

 
 
 
 
su·per·nal
/səˈpərnl/
 
adjective
LITERARY
 
  1. relating to the sky or the heavens; celestial.
    • of exceptional quality or extent.
      "he is the supernal poet of our age"
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Just now, Sherapy said:

It does say it is a supernal source.

 

 
 
 
 
su·per·nal
/səˈpərnl/
 
adjective
LITERARY
 
  1. relating to the sky or the heavens; celestial.
    • of exceptional quality or extent.
      "he is the supernal poet of our age"

Supernal--Woo. 

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21 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, but I think Sherapy is trying to determine what is even being proposed or claimed.  The link Will provided for the Midway Creatures is pretty, well, far out.  I can see why hippies in the 60s were into it.

It reminds me loosely of “A Course in Miracles”

 

@eight bitshave you read the Course in Miracles by chance? 

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3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

have you read the Course in Miracles by chance? 

Blessedly, no.

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4 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Blessedly, no.

Hahahahaha it has a lot of Jesus stuff in it. :P
 

Course in Miracles (also referred to as ACIM or the Course) is a 1976 book by Helen Schucman. The underlying premise is that the greatest "miracle" is the act of simply gaining a full "awareness of love's presence" in one's own life.[1] Schucman claimed that the book had been dictated to her, word for word, via "inner dictation" from Christ.[2][3] The book is considered to have borrowed from various New Age movement literature.[4][5]

 

Source Wiki:Ppedia 

Edited by Sherapy
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10 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

It reminds me loosely of “A Course in Miracles”

 

@eight bitshave you read the Course in Miracles by chance? 

I have and it is supposedly a book channeled to a psychiatrist from Jesus.   The thing is most of it is written in tripple and quadruple negatives so it is very murky and has nothing to do with the christian religion except what people claim.   Then someone took it and created a teacher's manual for it after a core group studied it for a few years.  Then it was changed a few times to better suit whomever had the current printing rights.

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23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have and it is supposedly a book channeled to a psychiatrist from Jesus.   The thing is most of it is written in tripple and quadruple negatives so it is very murky and has nothing to do with the christian religion except what people claim.   Then someone took it and created a teacher's manual for it after a core group studied it for a few years.  Then it was changed a few times to better suit whomever had the current printing rights.

I had a copy once upon a time too, even read the whole book, then threw it away.:P

 

I went through a “new age phase” in my early 20s, then had to grow up. :P

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43 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, but I think Sherapy is trying to determine what is even being proposed or claimed.  The link Will provided for the Midway Creatures is pretty, well, far out.  I can see why hippies in the 60s were into it.

It is way to far out for me:P IMHO there are all kinds of trips:D

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I had a copy once upon a time too, even read the whole book, then threw it away.:P

 

I went through a “new age phase” in my early 20s, then grew up. 

I got it from a guy I dated.   I am not sure why he bought me a copy.  I looked at it and decided it was a lot of trouble to read, but then I moved to a new small town and wanted to meet people.  I found an ad for a group that met to study the book.   I am glad I met that group.  I am still good friends with the woman who ran the class.  She went on to learn Reiki and teach that, and we never went back to the book, though when I moved back to albuquerque I did show up (weird how I felt projected) to a group studying that book.  I was only there to say one thing.  I don't think anyone heard me and it was not something I would have planned to say, but that has happened to me before, I show up, I stop what is going on to say one thing and then I leave.   I had to learn to not be attached to any of it because usually I never see anyone in the group again.

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12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I got it from a guy I dated.   I am not sure why he bought me a copy.  I looked at it and decided it was a lot of trouble to read, but then I moved to a new small town and wanted to meet people.  I found an ad for a group that met to study the book.   I am glad I met that group.  I am still good friends with the woman who ran the class.  She went on to learn Reiki and teach that, and we never went back to the book, though when I moved back to albuquerque I did show up (weird how I felt projected) to a group studying that book.  I was only there to say one thing.  I don't think anyone heard me and it was not something I would have planned to say, but that has happened to me before, I show up, I stop what is going on to say one thing and then I leave.   I had to learn to not be attached to any of it because usually I never see anyone in the group again.

My bestie gifted me a Reiki course which I have not taken yet. Well if anyone ever starts ACIM thread, we got our expert with you.:D

Edited by Sherapy
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4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

My bestie gifted me a Reiki course which I have not taken yet. Well if anyone ever starts ACIM thread, we got our expert with you.:D

I would rather talk about Reiki.  I hope you enjoy it.   I have found it is taught a lot of different ways and there are some inaccurate (or just plain wrong) stories about how Usui developed Reiki.   The people who brought it to the U.S. mainland from Hawaii told all kinds of stories based on their religion.  Or they thought it would not be accepted if it wasn't about christianity, which it isn't.  Not sure.  

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1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I would rather talk about Reiki.  I hope you enjoy it.   I have found it is taught a lot of different ways and there are some inaccurate (or just plain wrong) stories about how Usui developed Reiki.   The people who brought it to the U.S. mainland from Hawaii told all kinds of stories based on their religion.  Or they thought it would not be accepted if it wasn't about christianity, which it isn't.  Not sure.  

I have heard good things about Reiki, thanks for the heads up.:wub:

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Urantia and miracles and shy young men, oh my. I was working the hardware department one day, when an attractive young woman, no more than eighteen or nineteen, came up to me with questions about staining a chair and how to do it and what materials she needed. It seemed slightly peculiar a request, so I ask her how she came to have the chair. It turned out she had met a young man at a local college she just enrolled in and he was into furniture woodworking and repair and had given her an unfinished rocking chair he had built. That was illuminating, so I asked her if she liked the young and would want to see him again. Her face brightened and she said yes. I ask her if he seemed genuinely interested in her and might want to see her again. She said yes, but he hadn't called. I told her he's shy and had given her an excuse to contact him for help with the chair, without waiting for him to muster the courage to ask her out. The expression on her face was priceless, as it dawned on her and she thanked me and left. The next day, she and a young man, who looked like he was walking on air, came in to shop for stain and varnish. She looked at him and at me, knowingly and winked. I was right; a young man without confidence will often gift a girl that way, hoping against hope. It rarely works.

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27 minutes ago, eight bits said:

OK, so back to the empty tomb, the earliest authors we know of don't know what happened; what better sources do the Urantia book authors have? 

 

That is explained here:

"As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman

 

Because as the midwayer of record stated:

"I am authorized to place on record the narrative of the life transactions of Jesus of Nazareth as they were observed by my order of earth creatures

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

That is explained here:

"As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman

 

Because as the midwayer of record stated:

"I am authorized to place on record the narrative of the life transactions of Jesus of Nazareth as they were observed by my order of earth creatures

 

 

 

Question: who is explaining this?

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7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

That is explained here:

"As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman

 

Because as the midwayer of record stated:

"I am authorized to place on record the narrative of the life transactions of Jesus of Nazareth as they were observed by my order of earth creatures

 

 

 

So, the Urantia Book is something to be taken on faith as true and as to it's origins? Well, that something which has to be taken on faith, too.

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4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Question: who is explaining this?

 

"the secondary midwayer of onetime attachment to the Apostle Andrew

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

"the secondary midwayer of onetime attachment to the Apostle Andrew

 

 

Thanks, Will.

Who is the Apostle Andrew?

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47 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Thanks, Will.

Who is the Apostle Andrew?

 

"He was the oldest child in a family of five—himself, his brother Simon, and three sisters.

"Late on the evening of the day of Pentecost, when, largely through the energetic and inspiring preaching of Peter, two thousand souls were added to the kingdom, Andrew said to his brother: “I could not do that, but I am glad I have a brother who could.” To which Peter replied: “And but for your bringing me to the Master and by your steadfastness keeping me with him, I should not have been here to do this.”

"After Pentecost Peter was famous, but it never irritated the older Andrew to spend the rest of his life being introduced as “Simon Peter’s brother.”

"Very soon after Jesus’ ascension on high, Andrew began the writing of a personal record of many of the sayings and doings of his departed Master. After Andrew’s death other copies of this private record were made and circulated freely among the early teachers of the Christian church. These informal notes of Andrew’s were subsequently edited, amended, altered, and added to until they made up a fairly consecutive narrative of the Master’s life on earth. The last of these few altered and amended copies was destroyed by fire at Alexandria about one hundred years after the original was written by the first chosen of the twelve apostles.

"John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life.

"This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

 

I suspect that it was Andrew's lost notes that are the long wondered about "Q source document".

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Q_Document

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

"the secondary midwayer of onetime attachment to the Apostle Andrew

 

 

Hey Will I have some serious questions about theThe Urantia Papers.

1. Who wrote them?

2. When was the book written.?

Peace

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

"He was the oldest child in a family of five—himself, his brother Simon, and three sisters.

"Late on the evening of the day of Pentecost, when, largely through the energetic and inspiring preaching of Peter, two thousand souls were added to the kingdom, Andrew said to his brother: “I could not do that, but I am glad I have a brother who could.” To which Peter replied: “And but for your bringing me to the Master and by your steadfastness keeping me with him, I should not have been here to do this.”

"After Pentecost Peter was famous, but it never irritated the older Andrew to spend the rest of his life being introduced as “Simon Peter’s brother.”

"Very soon after Jesus’ ascension on high, Andrew began the writing of a personal record of many of the sayings and doings of his departed Master. After Andrew’s death other copies of this private record were made and circulated freely among the early teachers of the Christian church. These informal notes of Andrew’s were subsequently edited, amended, altered, and added to until they made up a fairly consecutive narrative of the Master’s life on earth. The last of these few altered and amended copies was destroyed by fire at Alexandria about one hundred years after the original was written by the first chosen of the twelve apostles.

"John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life.

"This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

 

I suspect that it was Andrew's lost notes that are the long wondered about "Q source document".

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Q_Document

 

 

 

Thank you, I forward this to @eight bits.  He is the expert on all things Jesus and related stuff for me.:D

Edited by Sherapy
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