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'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'


c.s.lewis

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4 hours ago, eight bits said:

He also writes extensively on his own blog.

All males /do/ m********e. Doesn’t mean I want to see most doing it or that it ipso facto it’s worthwhile.

—Jaylemurph 

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4 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

All males /do/ m********e. Doesn’t mean I want to see most doing it or that it ipso facto it’s worthwhile.

Well, that's fine, Jay. What you do on your own time isn't the topic of this thread.

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2 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Well, that's fine, Jay. What you do on your own time isn't the topic of this thread.

No, but it is an accurate appraisal of blog-writing. 

—Jaylemurph 

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The papers cover exhaustively certain things of a historical and religious nature such as the following:

  • When the sons of God entered in to relations with the daughters of men and begot a great race 
  • The land of Nod
  • The Garden of Eden
  • Melchizedek
  • Akhenaten
  • Jesus of Nazareth

And while thoroughly and very consistently tying together all of the above, many other things of an entirely different nature are included in the papers as well, such as this:

 

"Calcium is an active and versatile element at solar temperatures. The stone atom has two agile and loosely attached electrons in the two outer electronic circuits, which are very close together. Early in the atomic struggle it loses its outer electron; whereupon it engages in a masterful act of juggling the nineteenth electron back and forth between the nineteenth and twentieth circuits of electronic revolution. By tossing this nineteenth electron back and forth between its own orbit and that of its lost companion more than twenty-five thousand times a second, a mutilated stone atom is able partially to defy gravity and thus successfully to ride the emerging streams of light and energy, the sunbeams, to liberty and adventure. This calcium atom moves outward by alternate jerks of forward propulsion, grasping and letting go the sunbeam about twenty-five thousand times each second. And this is why stone is the chief component of the worlds of space. 

 

Calcium---The Wander of Space

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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On 12/9/2021 at 9:43 PM, eight bits said:

 

Nor can anyone else know their origin. Whatever it is, the UB shows little knowledge of science or New Testament scholarship beyond what was readily available to interested human beings at the time of the book's first publication.

As with your own tales, there is no evidentiary foundation even to suspect anything other than everyday natural, human, and completely terrestial explanations for what we read.

Completely  true But I KNOW their validity and truth, whereas I cant now that of the urantia papers.

However my own experiences naturally make me slightly more open to the possibility that if i have such contacts with  a universal consciousness, then so do many other humans, of whom the  source for the UB may have been one.  

I am also more open to the concept of a skier being pursued by a large white pointer shark, having had the experience as a teenager.

To me its a lot more than an unrealistic scene form Jaws.  It is something which has actually happened  I was lucky that my parents were able to maintain a reasonable speed, and the water was flat calm, allowing me to stay just ahead of the pursuing shark until the y could force me into the beach 

I hadn't even seen it, yet it had pursued me for several kilometres across Louth Bay. 

The point ? Real experiences in our lives inform us of that  which is possible, no matter how incredible others find those experiences.  

Edited by Mr Walker
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On 12/9/2021 at 1:23 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Then they are included within Hammer's 200 years, why are you trying to make exceptions? Not really a question so no answer is required as it is an observation.

My only objection was to calling the UB a  "late comer"  It is more of a "mid comer" There have been hundreds of new religions since it began.

200 years ago began in 1821.  The history of the urantia papers goes back to about 1911 and the first "voluminous writings"  occurred in 1925.

Thus, even within that 200 year period, the papers are not newcomers, but more mid range      

 

hammer

 The Urantia Book is a late comer to very crowded field.

 

Me

All true, but  there are a lot of  more recent ones

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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28 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Completely  true But I KNOW their validity and truth, whereas I cant now that of the urantia papers.

However my own experiences naturally make me slightly more open to the possibility that if i have such contacts with  a universal consciousness, then so do many other humans, of whom the  source for the UB may have been one.

OK, then we should celebrate our agreement that the provenance of the UB is unknown. Nobody who hangs out in this section of the forum was shocked to learn that you find a non-terrestial origin for the UB more plausible than I do.

On another matter:

22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

My only objection was to calling the UB a  "late comer"  It is more of a "mid comer" There have been hundreds of new religions since it began.

That's not an objection to anything anybody said.

You're making this into a "was the glass half full or half empty?" discussion, when the original observation was that there was already plenty of juice in the glass back in the 1950's. Even more juice since then? Yes, and that just goes to show that since the era of the second "great awakening" (the generation or so which spanned the late 1790's into the 1830's ... two hundred years ago, more or less), "new reiligion discovery" has been a consistent American thing.

Since nobody disputes your add-to that the appearance of the UB has not stopped other new entrants into the American religion market since then, why not settle for victory and move on?

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4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

The point ? Real experiences in our lives inform us of that  which is possible, no matter how incredible others find those experiences. 

Another point is that people's explanations for their real experiences, based on more evidence than there is for anything, are often objectively, flat out incorrect, no matter how convinced the experiencer is of their explanation.  You're right that real experiences can inform us but they not uncommonly can fool us too.

(You could probably use a better example than the shark chasing a skier, there's nothing there that is incredible.  Normal water skiing speeds are well within the range of an adult sharks' top speed and, as Hooper tells us in Jaws, sharks are attracted to splashing and movement which to them often mean lunch.)

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7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

My only objection was to calling the UB a  "late comer"  It is more of a "mid comer" There have been hundreds of new religions since it began.

200 years ago began in 1821.  The history of the urantia papers goes back to about 1911 and the first "voluminous writings"  occurred in 1925.

Thus, even within that 200 year period, the papers are not newcomers, but more mid range      

 

hammer

 The Urantia Book is a late comer to very crowded field.

 

Me

All true, but  there are a lot of  more recent ones

 

Hi Walker

So you just want to nit pick about anything for something to talk about. Most of us understand what Hammer said and have no problem accepting that it was formed in the last 200 years and could care less what place it comes in at as it is not a race that we are betting on. Ultimately all that one can see is that you are trying to force a non-relevant point to make yourself seem relevant.

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6 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

So you just want to nit pick about anything for something to talk about. Most of us understand what Hammer said and have no problem accepting that it was formed in the last 200 years and could care less what place it comes in at as it is not a race that we are betting on. Ultimately all that one can see is that you are trying to force a non-relevant point to make yourself seem relevant.

Well, once again, well said, Jay.

 

Edited by Sherapy
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18 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Well, once again, well said, Jay.

 

Hi Sheri

Thanks, my intent is to keep the thread on track and Walker knows that I am willing to discuss any of his abstractions in an appropriate thread or create one to explore them. It is up o him to want to productively discuss topics within the designed parameters.

Edited by jmccr8
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1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sheri

Thanks, my intent is to keep the thread on track and Walker knows that I am willing to discuss any of his abstractions in an appropriate thread or create one to explore them. It is up o him to want to productively discuss topics within the designed parameters.

Your a class act Jay. 

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21 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sheri

Thanks and I think the same way about you :tu:

Psst! It's her, the girl from Tangiers. (Sorry, I had a M.A.S.H movie moment . :blush:)

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15 hours ago, eight bits said:

OK, then we should celebrate our agreement that the provenance of the UB is unknown. Nobody who hangs out in this section of the forum was shocked to learn that you find a non-terrestial origin for the UB more plausible than I do.

On another matter:

That's not an objection to anything anybody said.

You're making this into a "was the glass half full or half empty?" discussion, when the original observation was that there was already plenty of juice in the glass back in the 1950's. Even more juice since then? Yes, and that just goes to show that since the era of the second "great awakening" (the generation or so which spanned the late 1790's into the 1830's ... two hundred years ago, more or less), "new reiligion discovery" has been a consistent American thing.

Since nobody disputes your add-to that the appearance of the UB has not stopped other new entrants into the American religion market since then, why not settle for victory and move on?

Possibly true 

I may have read the post in a way that wasn't intended.   I still cant get what others are saying i have misinterpreted 

I agreed with it except for calling urantia a late comer when there are hundreds of more recent religions.

I also agree with your first point.

I am more accepting of the possibility of urantia being the product  of  a genuine contact than you, because I have lived with tha t form of contact and communication almost all my life 

With a little imagination and creativity to fill in the gaps i could write something  as long and detailed as the urantia papers, but i have a different perspective.

I believe individuals are revealed to,  and helped, individually, and what is meant for  one may not be meant for another If I wasn't so busy  with life  I would be tempted to writer online fiction based on my life experiences.

After all how many people have actually ridden a dragon, and could describe accurately the sensations of doing so :)  

How many have visited dozens of civilizations and life bearing planets.? 

How many people know what it actually feels like to use a transmat beam or similar teleportation device  

 

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35 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I may have read the post in a way that wasn't intended.   I still cant get what others are saying i have misinterpreted 

Hi Walker

Being as I am one of the others then it is fair for me to chip in, the context the 200 years is understood by most and is inclusive of everything within that 200 year ranger. You imposed a qualifier that it was not the most recent so what you have misunderstood was the fact that if it was 199 year, 364 days and 22 hours or yesterday has no significance bearing on the fact that it happened in the last 200 years.:tu:

42 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I am more accepting of the possibility of urantia being the product  of  a genuine contact than you, because I have lived with tha t form of contact and communication almost all my life 

With a little imagination and creativity to fill in the gaps i could write something  as long and detailed as the urantia papers, but i have a different perspective.

Perfect, neither your or the UB's are significantly different because both have no physical evidence in the recognized scientific method sense. Neither your or their aliens mention each other and have asked if they represented god conflicts on earth. Nada, I can see your lips moving but I can't see the words.:huh:

Actually you should write a fiction and sell it as such as it could assist in your retirement.:tu:

47 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I believe individuals are revealed to,  and helped, individually, and what is meant for  one may not be meant for another If I wasn't so busy  with life  I would be tempted to writer online fiction based on my life experiences.

Then the premise is that not everyone who lives is worth knowing god and well the rest are fodder, if that is god then do I really need to know it if it treats my other human in a lesser manner than me? Hell no, fact!!!

50 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

After all how many people have actually ridden a dragon, and could describe accurately the sensations of doing so :)  

How many have visited dozens of civilizations and life bearing planets.? 

How many people know what it actually feels like to use a transmat beam or similar teleportation device  

It is all in your imagination write it down as notes and develop a book worthy fiction and I will applaud you.

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The best religious science fiction I ever read was the trilogy: Out Of The Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength, by C.S. Lewis. 

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42 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The best religious science fiction I ever read was the trilogy: Out Of The Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength, by C.S. Lewis. 

Hi Hammer

Given the right circumstances I could say the same thing about "Debbie does Dallas", both of us have been here for a long time and have seen some pretty wack a** s** as far as realities go (not excluding my own) and aliens gods speaking to other nobodies not so unlike myself and not me makes me wonder why is one of me not like the others?

Neither you or I am are as critical as some would believe our nature is ,I am not sure if in past created a grievance with you and if I did you have my sincere apology as I always hold you and many others here in regard.

I have seen religious undertones in a lot of movies or stories over the years and lately the god/sci fi aspect is more pronounced in a religious aspect especially in B grade or less movie for free to the low income people with some educational limitations so are somewhat more pliable as a resource.,

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1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

Given the right circumstances I could say the same thing about "Debbie does Dallas", both of us have been here for a long time and have seen some pretty wack a** s** as far as realities go (not excluding my own) and aliens gods speaking to other nobodies not so unlike myself and not me makes me wonder why is one of me not like the others?

Neither you or I am are as critical as some would believe our nature is ,I am not sure if in past created a grievance with you and if I did you have my sincere apology as I always hold you and many others here in regard.

I have seen religious undertones in a lot of movies or stories over the years and lately the god/sci fi aspect is more pronounced in a religious aspect especially in B grade or less movie for free to the low income people with some educational limitations so are somewhat more pliable as a resource.,

Some of the most religious content I've seen in science fiction was Babylon 5, which it's creator, J. Michael Straczynski, wrote 90 out of a 110 episodes and was himself an Atheist. This concern about offending me came out of left field, as nothing of the sort was on my mind. My post was just a remark in passing, nothing more. You're one of the most delightful posters one might encounter, here and I cherish your presence. As far as it goes, anyone here who has not been offended by me, at one time or another, must have the heart of a saint! Now, a bit of light entertainment, to sooth over-actually-unruffled feathers.

https://youtu.be/pfRdur8GLBM

 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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On 11/29/2021 at 10:54 AM, Sherapy said:

With that being said based on what I have explored of the UB it reminds me of L Ron Hubbard “Dianetics” or Jane Roberts the “Seth” books or Ruth Montgomery’s “Alien” claim books. For me, I am not interested enough to explore further but I enjoy reading those that do find it interesting and why they do and ones take aways.

Sherapy, do you like Seth speaks books?; i do, i haven't read them all, they are a lot, but what i've read so far is great...

Edited by Luis Marco
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On 11/30/2021 at 8:36 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

This thread is about Will and Luis's religious beliefs, not yours.

No, this is not about my beliefs nor anyone's, it's about revelations, about values, about meanings, about cosmologies... as you know!

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:56 AM, Desertrat56 said:

So, you are spreading the Urantia word, why?   I already mentioned one on this forum you could talk to about that book.   I have read some of it and find it too convoluted.   Instead of posting the whole book, tell us what attracts you to it, why you think it is a worthwhile endeavor to read it.

Among other stuff, because of this, from URANTIA:

Quote

92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

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7 minutes ago, Luis Marco said:

No, this is not about my beliefs nor anyone's, it's about revelations, about values, about meanings, about cosmologies... as you know!

Hi Luis

Are your prophecies based on what the UB teaches if so then it is about your belief with regard to what the UB says

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4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Luis

Are your prophecies based on what the UB teaches if so then it is about your belief with regard to what the UB says

it doesnt matter what i believe; i'm just inviting the persons here to all the above regarding URANTIA

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