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'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'


Luis Marco
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On 11/29/2021 at 8:38 PM, Sherapy said:

Well stated. To me, Rashore was simply trying to engage Will in a conversation out of interest. I do the same all the time, I ask questions all the time with Will. He answers too and says thanks for asking too.
 

‘If I was to ask anyone about the UB it would be Will, by far this book is his passion and he is the go to on the UB as far as I am concerned. 
 

Will is not the go to on URANTIA, there are other better experts as he knows, you ignore Halbert Katzen, who can be contacted from his website, but it's ok i guess, ha

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13 minutes ago, Luis Marco said:

it doesnt matter what i believe; i'm just inviting the persons here to all the above regarding URANTIA

I asked questions on page 2 that you have ignored why is that?:huh:

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12 minutes ago, Luis Marco said:

Will is not the go to on URANTIA, there are other better experts as he knows, you ignore Halbert Katzen, who can be contacted from his website, but it's ok i guess, ha

Hi Luis

Big boast you nor Halbert has answered my questions and if you put an effort in I have several others to pose. I did go to his links and saw nothing that addresses my questions.

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On 12/2/2021 at 2:09 PM, Will Due said:

The term 'Atlantis' is not found in the Urantia Papers anywhere. But in my opinion, there is a plethora of information that explains thoroughly what spawned the so-called legend of Atlantis. 

Thats not facts, Atlantis isnt simply a legend, and it (edited) may be related to those URANTIA excerpts, but Atlantis is another story, it was in the Atlantic ocean, and it probably moved partly at least to what now is the Antarctic as some say, but i dont know exactly when this happened, see the youtube documentary vid The cosmic secret.

Edited by Luis Marco
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On 12/2/2021 at 5:07 AM, Pettytalk said:

I haven't had the pleasure, loosely speaking term for chance, to peruse those assumed holy scripts, blasphemously assuming. Therefore I'm kindly inquiring, politely speaking, if anyone holier than me, Urantia wise, can enlighten me on whether or not the collected work mentions and/or gives prophetic predictions? Specifically, is there any mention of Plato's Atlantis?

Search the best (edited) online search engine of URANTIA at https://ubook4u.com/the-urantia-book/search/ for any terms and phrases you wanna look up.

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On 12/2/2021 at 3:46 PM, onlookerofmayhem said:

One of the main problems I have with the UB is that a massive amount of it is pure assertion with nothing to back it up. Such as in the cases with these "Advanced Ancient Civilizations".

There's a lot to back this up tru the work of Katzen, again: https://UBannotated.com (and also we have to take into account the Planetary Rebellion: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-67-planetary-rebellion.

On 12/2/2021 at 3:46 PM, onlookerofmayhem said:

From what I remember correctly, they even amended it at one point. So much for divine revelation.

Perhaps you refer to this: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/text-standardization ('Urantia Foundation: Standard Reference Text (SRT)')

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On 11/29/2021 at 10:54 AM, Sherapy said:

An add to, a deeper exploration into faith: 

 

As faith matures it includes verification through doubting, and questioning, applying critical analysis that often leads to more questions and refined understandings, at best in this context faith is then verified for merit and viability. 
 

Few operate exclusively on blind faith, I have always had the impression from Will that he welcomes feedback and questions. He has consistently demonstrated this. 
 

To me, Faith shines a possibility on what may or may not be as in Will’s offering and clarification of the UB it is in the questioning and inquiries that help one explore and decide if there really is anything to a claim or even a good reason to explore further. 

With that being said based on what I have explored of the UB it reminds me of L Ron Hubbard “Dianetics” or Jane Roberts the “Seth” books or Ruth Montgomery’s “Alien” claim books. For me, I am not interested enough to explore further but I enjoy reading those that do find it interesting and why they do and ones take aways. 

URANTIA:

101:2:3 Reason, through the study of science, may lead back through nature to a First Cause, but it requires religious faith to transform the First Cause of science into a God of salvation; and revelation is further required for the validation of such a faith, such spiritual insight.

We are given the definition of 'religion' in URANTIA, even though it's not an absolute definition:

 

Quote

 

(1629.4) 145:2.3 This sermon was an effort on Jesus’ part to make clear the fact that religion is a personal experience. Among other things, the Master said:

(1629.5) 145:2.4 “You well know that, while a kindhearted father loves his family as a whole, he so regards them as a group because of his strong affection for each individual member of that family. No longer must you approach the Father in heaven as a child of Israel but as a child of God. [...]

 

Edited by Luis Marco
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2 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

Will is not the go to on URANTIA, there are other better experts as he knows,

Will is a heretic? And an unrepentant one? Should Santa bring him some asbestos underwear for Christmas?

2 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

you ignore Halbert Katzen, who can be contacted from his website,

Halbert is a member here at UM. If he wants to engage with us, then he can post here (starting with Jay's unanswered questions, if he's of a mind to help). Or were those few posts of his a while back just a bid to divert some of Saru's traffic to his own website?

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This is an excellent and an--for Urantians--excruciating and excoriating analysis of the Urantia Book. 

 

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This is even better: a URANTIA-related playlist on YouTube; and i have already debunked partly (in this very thread of mine) the vid of Michael Heiser above by you @Hammerclaw; see it yourselves:

The just above is the whole playlist, see it if you want!.

The video of Heiser has also already been debunked by others elsewhere, for example here...

:gun::gun::gun:

Edited by Luis Marco
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16 minutes ago, Luis Marco said:

This is even better: a URANTIA-related playlist on YouTube; and i have already debunked partly (in this very thread of mine) the vid of Michael Heiser above by you @Hammerclaw; see it yourselves:

The just above is the whole playlist, see it if you want!.

The video of Heiser has also already been debunked by others elsewhere, for example here...

:gun::gun::gun:

You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want to, debunk anything to the contrary. You're just piling belief on top of belief but with no credibility. The UB is garbage and  anyone who believes in it is an utter fool.

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14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want to, debunk anything to the contrary. You're just piling belief on top of belief but with no credibility. The UB is garbage and  anyone who believes in it is an utter fool.

blah blah blah, saying foolish and nonsensical things all the time, ah?... :yes:

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Hi, @Luis Marco

I notice your rebuttal video is more than 90 minutes long, and apparently part of an even longer playlist.

The only things in the 12-13 minute video @Hammerclaw posted that were dispute-worthy were (1) the UB copies extensively from previously published modern sources and (2) Sadler, the chief witness to the "sleeping subject," cited some of these sources in his own signed published work.

Is there any possibility that you could direct us to the portion of the video (or playlist) that addresses these points specifically?

For the convenience of anybody following this aspect of the problem, here's a link to the website mentioned in Hammer's video:

https://urantiabooksources.com/

(If you'd prefer to address @jmccr8's long-pending queries first, then that would be fine with me, so long as you get back to this query in reasonably timely fashion.)

Thank you.

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52 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Hi, @Luis Marco

I notice your rebuttal video is more than 90 minutes long, and apparently part of an even longer playlist.

The only things in the 12-13 minute video @Hammerclaw posted that were dispute-worthy were (1) the UB copies extensively from previously published modern sources and (2) Sadler, the chief witness to the "sleeping subject," cited some of these sources in his own signed published work.

Is there any possibility that you could direct us to the portion of the video (or playlist) that addresses these points specifically?

For the convenience of anybody following this aspect of the problem, here's a link to the website mentioned in Hammer's video:

https://urantiabooksources.com/

(If you'd prefer to address @jmccr8's long-pending queries first, then that would be fine with me, so long as you get back to this query in reasonably timely fashion.)

Thank you.

As far as i know, your concern not even mentioned in the playlist i shared.

But it's addressed by Matthew Block in his own website, which you shared above; Matt saying basically that Sadler plagiarized much of his books from others, and that URANTIA does something similar with its human sources but it not being plagiarism.

URANTIA's own celestial revelators claim in at least two main sections that they used some human sources, in the last section of the Foreword, in the 'Acknowledgment' at the end, and in the one of the first JESUS Papers, example: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/foreword#U0_12_0.

Jmccr8 is insincere in my own opinion, he gave circles round and round Halbert's claims in this thread, probably a reason Halbert does not post here at U-M anymore, but i might be wrong as to jm's supposed insincerity so who knows: he was answered by Hal; jm just won't read Hal's website in its just quality but who knows... maybe no one will care enough here, and i just am inviting regarding URANTIA nowadays etc; but i see you might actually be interested enough legitimately and a few others also...

Speaking of JESUS Papers, see this quote:

100:7.6 Jesus was very broad in his outlook. He exhorted his followers to preach the gospel to all peoples. He was free from all narrow-mindedness. His sympathetic heart embraced all mankind, even a universe. Always his invitation was, "Whosoever will, let him come."

Edited by Luis Marco
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1 hour ago, Luis Marco said:

blah blah blah, saying foolish and nonsensical things all the time, ah?... :yes:

Nonsensical should be right up your alley, cabron.

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2 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

Jmccr8 is insincere in my own opinion, he gave circles round and round Halbert's claims in this thread, probably a reason Halbert does not post here at U-M anymore, but i might be wrong as to jm's supposed insincerity so who knows: he was answered by Hal; jm just won't read Hal's website in its just quality but who knows... maybe no one will care enough here, and i just am inviting regarding URANTIA nowadays etc; but i see you might actually be interested enough legitimately and a few others also...

Hi Luis

I did go to Halbert's site and there was nothing there that specifically addressed my questions. Halbert did mention a land bridge existing at the West entrance to the Med and looked into it but the time difference as to when it existed and the theoretical peninsula that the UB mentions existing is significant and brought that up and that was the last I heard from Halbert.

I have to go and blow off the walks as it snowed last night and the neighbors nurse comes by at 7 am so have to get that done before she arrives but will come back to you when I am finished.

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2 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

URANTIA's own celestial revelators claim in at least two main sections that they used some human sources

"Using sources" isn't plagiarism. Copying sources without acknowledging them is plagiarism.

The commentator in Hammer's posted video asks why ET's would need sources. That's not quite the issue. Matt answers that question in one of his articles ("Some Human Sources of the Urantia Book," available in pdf from the "Articles" page of his site). Anecdotally,

Quote

It must also be noted that these books have sometimes been of great help in further understanding the papers that use them. Often the presenters are obliged to present an abbreviated treatment of a concept or a history which is discussed at greater length in the human source. For instance, my understanding of the book’s puzzling allusion to “cosmic self-maintenance” (p. 482) was greatly enhanced when I came upon this concept presented at length in the Noble book (see below). In light of these benefits to the comprehension of both content and context, I feel it would be helpful for the readership to be made aware of these sources, and perhaps some of these books with expired copyrights could be republished. It would also be very helpful to scholars who will someday be critically examining the Urantia Book.

Which is the same reason why mere human authors of serious non-fiction, both scholarly and popular, use sources and cite the sources they have used. If the usage is a quote, then they show it as a quote along with where in the source it comes from.

No mystery, then, that the alien intellectual giants would follow suit and use sources for their human audience. The mystery is why not disclose the sources for the reader's use and benefit, just as Matt describes his own further study, if intellectual honesty is somehow not reason enough?

Edited by eight bits
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7 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

Will is not the go to on URANTIA, there are other better experts as he knows, you ignore Halbert Katzen, who can be contacted from his website, but it's ok i guess, ha

Halbert Katzen gave the impression he was here to divert Saru’s client base, not to be a regular contributing part of our community. As far as the UB, Will answers questions and that works for me. 
 

For me, the UB is junk reading not unlike the Seth books. 
 

‘All the best, Luis.

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6 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

URANTIA:

101:2:3 Reason, through the study of science, may lead back through nature to a First Cause, but it requires religious faith to transform the First Cause of science into a God of salvation; and revelation is further required for the validation of such a faith, such spiritual insight.

We are given the definition of 'religion' in URANTIA, even though it's not an absolute definition:

 

There is no such thing as spiritual insight, IMHO 

Edited by Sherapy
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5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

There is no such thing as spiritual insight, IMHO 

It's just a mental filter. 

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7 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

it doesnt matter what i believe; i'm just inviting the persons here to all the above regarding URANTIA

 

8 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

No, this is not about my beliefs nor anyone's, it's about revelations, about values, about meanings, about cosmologies... as you know!

Hi Luis

It does matter what you believe if you are going to defend your book effectively. You said I am insincere yet you have said several times that you are here to be challenged and to bring it on. My questions are relevant and I have not spoken down to you nor have I inferred that there is something wrong with you believing in it so lets get to the science can prove the UB is accurate bit. The questions I have asked are about physical things like landmass, trails and roads, animal husbandry/agriculture and distinctive humans of colors not present in historical records. All of those issues can be addressed through science which goes directly to the claim that the UB can be proven through science.

My questions are fair and not a trap and yet you call me insincere, hmm.

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36 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It's just a mental filter. 

Indeed, one can use it to avoid things, not unlike some use meditation to escape and disassociate. Anyone claiming “spiritual” insight a special mental status has drank their own koolaid. IMHO

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2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, one can use it to avoid things, not unlike some use meditation to escape and disassociate. Anyone claiming “spiritual” insight a special mental status has drank their own koolaid. IMHO

I can't disagree. It's easy to fall into illusion and at worst delusions. All for the desire to be "unique" or "special". 

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3 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

As far as i know, your concern not even mentioned in the playlist i shared.

But it's addressed by Matthew Block in his own website, which you shared above; Matt saying basically that Sadler plagiarized much of his books from others, and that URANTIA does something similar with its human sources but it not being plagiarism.

URANTIA's own celestial revelators claim in at least two main sections that they used some human sources, in the last section of the Foreword, in the 'Acknowledgment' at the end, and in the one of the first JESUS Papers, example: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/foreword#U0_12_0.

Jmccr8 is insincere in my own opinion, he gave circles round and round Halbert's claims in this thread, probably a reason Halbert does not post here at U-M anymore, but i might be wrong as to jm's supposed insincerity so who knows: he was answered by Hal; jm just won't read Hal's website in its just quality but who knows... maybe no one will care enough here, and i just am inviting regarding URANTIA nowadays etc; but i see you might actually be interested enough legitimately and a few others also...

Speaking of JESUS Papers, see this quote:

100:7.6 Jesus was very broad in his outlook. He exhorted his followers to preach the gospel to all peoples. He was free from all narrow-mindedness. His sympathetic heart embraced all mankind, even a universe. Always his invitation was, "Whosoever will, let him come."

I think the more likely reason Halbert isn’t here is because he had no takers for his UB site. Halbert just wasn’t a splash as they say, and there is nothing insincere about Jay, he asks questions, great questions and he keeps asking until they are answered. 

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