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'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'


Luis Marco
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1 minute ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

You had better make sure your book does not contradict the Revelations. As in the last page of the Bible in the last chapter of Revelation Jesus warns, "

 

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"

This was the same warning laid down to the Hebrews in the Torah, but brought up to the New Testament.

Oh no. We. Are. All. Doomed. Turn or burn before it's too late.:lol:

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1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

The Rajneeshee’s I have heard about them loosely. There is a documentary on Netflix called “Wild Wild Country” I think I will watch it.

I wouldn't put too much time aside for things like that, as usual, it is the normal "dramatized" for popular viewership numbers. I don't expect it to avow the facts in the way of the good story mantra either...

~

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

There is also Bikram Choudary  of Bikram Yoga in this documentary I actually know and have practiced yoga with some of the  people who are in the documentary who were duped and harmed by him.

It's a two way street... There's a reason why Osho was free to carry on with just a change of label and brand name... That's what the American dream is all about... Not his fault, not his problem... 

~

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

There were only a few of us who saw through his BS. To me, he was a giant red flag, especially, the grandiose claims. But, these days he is on the lam in Mexico and the Bikram empire has crumbled.

I believe OSHO is no longer with us, the organization though, is still going on quite famously, believe it or not. Especially in Taiwan, not only as a spiritual leader but also the business model for making it in the US

~

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

This man wasn’t even mesmerizing, I never did understand how so many were blinded by the chandlers of Narcissism of this creep, like some others I will not mention names, it seems something vital is missing. 

It was that decade where there were very little publications of the lessons Sri Rajnesh preached to the English language devotees. 

I had the advantage of knowing what he was speaking of even before he had his meteoric rise. It was his tendency to imply that he was the author and authority on what he was preaching to the westerners that gained him a reputation as an entertainer if not a clown over here in the East. Then again, he's not the first to be tempted down that way in the states...

~

Edit : too lazy to get the full low down on Bikram

~

 

Edited by SHaYap
lost the plot
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1 hour ago, SHaYap said:

I wouldn't put too much time aside for things like that, as usual, it is the normal "dramatized" for popular viewership numbers. I don't expect it to avow the facts in the way of the good story mantra either...

~

It's a two way street... There's a reason why Osho was free to carry on with just a change of label and brand name... That's what the American dream is all about... Not his fault, not his problem... 

~

I believe OSHO is no longer with us, the organization though, is still going on quite famously, believe it or not. Especially in Taiwan, not only as a spiritual leader but also the business model for making it in the US

~

It was that decade where there were very little publications of the lessons Sri Rajnesh preached to the English language devotees. 

I had the advantage of knowing what he was speaking of even before he had his meteoric rise. It was his tendency to imply that he was the author and authority on what he was preaching to the westerners that gained him a reputation as an entertainer if not a clown over here in the East. Then again, he's not the first to be tempted down that way in the states...

~

Edit : too lazy to get the full low down on Bikram

~

 

If my memory serves I think I read at least one book by Osho years ago. But, nothing stands out now.
 

Bikram is typical of one wanting the American dream too, it is a silly aspect of our culture to worship at the feet of anything or not questioning things to make a buck,  I think it is a huge flaw of monotheist religions which undergirds American culture that think open minded means accept any ole nonsense, no questions asked. IMHO
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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16 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

There is nothing to disprove as it has not been shown to exist

You would like us to believe that you are advanced and like your alien this has not been demonstrated just like the science of the UB and the teachings about their history of other humans or physical locations on Earth have been shown to hold any validity.

If there is no evidence to support a position then there is nothing to consider so there is no point proving or disproving until there is evidence. I don't need faith either way if there is no evidence.

What are these so called super powers anyway, he seems like an ordinary human to me. My impression is needing to feel special is the driving force fueling some of these woo narratives and not getting out much. My mother felt special to Jesus which in fact, her time went to investing in this narrative and it kept her from living her life, enjoying, and nurturing relationships within her own life, she had few friends too and struggled to connect with other humans in the most basic of ways. I think with the Jesus construct she could frame him in the way she needed to fill the many voids in her life. A self made prison basically.

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24 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

If my memory serves I think I read at least one book by Osho years ago. But, nothing stands out now.

All the titles under Osho are just republished material from his days as Bhagwan Sri Rajnesh, a name he can't use anymore. And it's all from the historical documents/annals of old zen / Buddhist archives ...

If I remember correctly, he's the first to popularise it all to a wider audience. It was much later that there were other printed material on the topics were available, like "The tao of physics" by Fritjof Capra, or the works of DT Suzuki and Alan Watts

~

 

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9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

This reflects your own world view 

Life has not been proven to exist on Mars,   but neither has it been disproven. You don't have to show something to exist before you can prove it does not :)

Hi Walker

yes it does reflect my position that there as potential for something to exist and without evidence that is all it is until it can be shown to be otherwise. I neither have to believe or disbelieve until then.

As far as the UB goes and is the subject of this thread I have asked specific questions that relate to descriptions of physical locations and unknown human referenced on this planet. To date there is nothing to suggest that this is a credible claim so it sits as a claim and nothing more.

It is very likely aliens existed that does not infer without evidence that they have been here or are the aliens of the UB. Your supposed alien is not one of them nor has it confirmed the UB either . 

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As far as I can surmise, applying Occam's Razor, The Urantia Papers/Book is the work of William S. Sadler, a disgruntled former Seventh Day Adventist, disillusioned by his Church's expulsion of his friend and mentor, John Harvey Kellog--yes that Kellog, creator of Corn Flakes. His unnamed source for the papers is, obviously himself, as they incorporate many of the principal tenets of the SDA church in which he was raised. There is no substantiated evidence for any other source. The fanciful origin stories are either a complete fabrication, or he genuinely believed he communed with aliens and-out of modesty-ambiguated the source of his "inspired" writings, excluding himself. It takes an extraordinary naive leap of faith to assume anything other. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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@eight bits

 

- Also, anything you know about Sadler's work process would be helpful. I only know the outlines, that there was a "sleeping subject" who was a patient. I take that as a literal description: the subject either talked in his sleep or recalled things in detail upon waking up from sleep (do you know which?). 

The term "sleeping subject" isn't used by the writers of the papers. Instead, in the case of the papers, he is referred to as just one of many "contact personalities" (CP) that were typically utilized throughout history for the purpose of advancing spiritual civilization. Sadler and his wife Lena were both physicians and the man who the readership community subsequently began to refer to as the "sleeping subject" was brought to their attention by his wife. She told them while he would often have disturbances during sleep, alarmingly, she would always be unable to wake him. (Some think this moment of introduction occurred as early as 1906.) The Sadlers then agreed to come to their apartment during these disturbances (they happened to live close by) to observe the woman's husband during the night in the hope of determining what if anything was medically wrong with him. At some point while asleep and still being unable to wake him one night, the CP began to speak in a voice unlike his own telling the Sadlers, they were in communication with beings from other worlds. They eventually were told that because of the fact that there exists great "conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity" in making contact this way, it was their purpose to enhance the real meaning of those terms as well as other things. But for certain reasons, this purpose wasn't immediately disclosed to them. Giving them time to get acclimated with what was going on. Which took several years. All the while, Sadler, being skeptical and doing what he always did, was looking for things to debunk while his wife Lena was more inclined to accept it for what they were saying it was.

 

 

 

- At some point, Sadler noted that there was a lot of coherent structure to what the subject was saying.

- I can understand that Sadler would decide that some record should be made of what the subject was saying. From what you write, maybe that's not so much because Sadler believed what the subject was saying at that point, but rather because it was an interesting phenomenon, maybe even medically significant for the patient.

A stenographer was brought in to record what was being said. But reportedly, little if anything of it ended up in the papers. The papers were finalized in handwritten form around 1934-1935. Sadler then brought in handwriting experts to analyze the handwriting of the papers and they all determined it did not match the handwriting of anyone involved. Including the CP. Early on when Sadler told the CP what was communicated through him, and I presume he was told that he was a sort of go between, the CP showed no interest at all in what was happening. During these early years, the Sadlers became familiar with the CP of course, they got to know him. Sadler said that it was interesting and quite remarkable that the CP's personal philosophy and religious inclinations where completely out of line with the information they were receiving during the night vigils.

 

 

 

- Assuming what I've said so far is more-or-less correct, then where I lose the plot is when Sadler assembles a "forum" of interested friends (?) to serve as both a source of questions for the subject and also an editorial board (?) in preparing the subject's answers for eventual publication. It seems to me that that would suggest a non-trivial level of belief by Sadler in the truth of the subject's content, beyond simply recognizing an interesting medical or psychological phenomenon.

If my memory serves me correctly, the "forum" you mentioned was initiated some time before 1906. One day Lena suggested they assemble their friends at their home for informal meetings on Sunday afternoons to discuss the latest ideas circulating at the time regarding current events and other things of a philosophical, medical and psychiatric nature. At that time it was an open affair and people would come and go. It was many years later that they closed these meetings and devoted them to being involved solely with the procedure of what ended up being the papers. At that point, everyone was sworn to secrecy and as the process continued to evolve there occurred, like it often does, the formation of factions among the forum members. Conflict developed and regrettably animosity turned up resulting in strife that I think still exists among the different UB organizations. Which is of course perfectly in line with everything that goes on when humans get together in groups, I might add LOL.

 

 

 

These are the sources of information I used to develop my opinion about the origins of the papers:

  • What's written in the papers themselves, specifically regarding the situation that brought about the papers.
  • Several hours of conversation I've had with other readers.
  • "The History of the Urantia Papers" by Larry Mullins. Who I've talked with about the origins of the papers a couple of times.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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17 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

@eight bits

 

- Also, anything you know about Sadler's work process would be helpful. I only know the outlines, that there was a "sleeping subject" who was a patient. I take that as a literal description: the subject either talked in his sleep or recalled things in detail upon waking up from sleep (do you know which?). 

The term "sleeping subject" isn't used by the writers of the papers. Instead, in the case of the papers, he is referred to as just one of many "contact personalities" (CP) that were typically utilized throughout history for the purpose of advancing spiritual civilization. Sadler and his wife Lena were both physicians and the man who the readership community subsequently began to refer to as the "sleeping subject" was brought to their attention by his wife. She told them while he would often have disturbances during sleep, alarmingly, she would always be unable to wake him. (Some think this moment of introduction occurred as early as 1906.) The Sadlers then agreed to come to their apartment during these disturbances (they happened to live close by) to observe the woman's husband during the night in the hope of determining what if anything was medically wrong with him. At some point while asleep and still being unable to wake him one night, the CP began to speak in a voice unlike his own telling the Sadlers, they were in communication with beings from other worlds. They eventually were told that because of the fact that there exists great "conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity" in making contact this way, it was their purpose to enhance the real meaning of those terms as well as other things. But for certain reasons, this purpose wasn't immediately disclosed to them. Giving them time to get acclimated with what was going on. Which took several years. All the while, Sadler, being skeptical and doing what he always did, was looking for things to debunk but his wife Lena was more inclined to accept it for what they were saying it was.

 

 

 

- At some point, Sadler noted that there was a lot of coherent structure to what the subject was saying.

- I can understand that Sadler would decide that some record should be made of what the subject was saying. From what you write, maybe that's not so much because Sadler believed what the subject was saying at that point, but rather because it was an interesting phenomenon, maybe even medically significant for the patient.

A stenographer was brought in to record what was being said. But reportedly, little if anything of it ended up in the papers. The papers were finalized in handwritten form around 1934-1935. Sadler then brought in handwriting experts to analyze the handwriting of the papers and they all determined it did not match the handwriting of anyone involved. Including the CP. Early on when Sadler told the CP what was communicated through him, and I presume he was told that he was a sort of go between, the CP showed no interest at all in what was happening. During these early years, the Sadlers became familiar with the CP of course, they got to know him. Sadler said that it was interesting and quite remarkable that the CP's personal philosophy and religious inclinations where completely out of line with the information they were receiving during the night vigils.

 

 

 

- Assuming what I've said so far is more-or-less correct, then where I lose the plot is when Sadler assembles a "forum" of interested friends (?) to serve as both a source of questions for the subject and also an editorial board (?) in preparing the subject's answers for eventual publication. It seems to me that that would suggest a non-trivial level of belief by Sadler in the truth of the subject's content, beyond simply recognizing an interesting medical or psychological phenomenon.

If my memory serves me correctly, the "forum" you mentioned was initiated some time before 1906. One day Lena suggested they assemble their friends at their home for informal meetings on Sunday afternoons to discuss the latest ideas circulating at the time regarding current events and other things of a philosophical, medical and psychiatric nature. At that time it was an open affair and people would come and go. It was many years later that they closed these meetings and devoted them to being involved solely with the procedure of what ended up being the papers. At that point, everyone was sworn to secrecy and as the process continued to evolve there occurred, like it often does, the formation of factions among the forum members. Conflict developed and regrettably animosity turned up resulting in strife that I think still exists among the different UB organizations. Which is of course perfectly in line with everything that goes on when humans get together in groups, I might add LOL.

 

 

 

These are the sources of information I used to develop my opinion about the origins of the papers:

  • What's written in the papers themselves, specifically regarding the situation that brought about the papers.
  • Several hours of conversation I've had with other readers.
  • "The History of the Urantia Papers" by Larry Mullins. Who I've talked with about the origins of the papers a couple of times.

 

 

 

Hi Will

I did read that there was a group of individuals that discussed and edited the UB several times so this seems to me that it is not as divinely inspired as it is presented to be. I have to step out for a bit but will go back and look for the material that I read to post when I get back.

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

As far as I can surmise, applying Occam's Razor, The Urantia Papers/Book is the work of William S. Sadler, a disgruntled former Seventh Day Adventist, disillusioned by his Church's expulsion of his friend and mentor, John Harvey Kellog--yes that Kellog, creator of Corn Flakes. His unnamed source for the papers is, obviously himself, as they incorporate many of the principal tenets of the SDA church in which he was raised. There is no substantiated evidence for any other source. The fanciful origin stories are either a complete fabrication, or he genuinely believed he communed with aliens and-out of modesty-ambiguated the source of his "inspired" writings, excluding himself. It takes an extraordinary naive leap of faith to assume anything other. 

So it's Christianity's weird cousin?

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

So it's Christianity's weird cousin?

Just another weird American addition to the ''Kingdom of the Cults."

See the source image

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Just another weird American addition to the ''Kingdom of the Cults."

Off brand Christianity, discount scientology.

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10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Off brand Christianity, discount scientology.

Or Messianic Judaism. Take basic protestant Christianity as though it was a stock car right off the assembly line and pimp it out to being a NASCAR. That's what most of these alternatives to mainstream Christianity do. They make it more exciting, sexy and alluring, instead of the boring same ole. same ole.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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2 hours ago, Will Due said:

A stenographer was brought in to record what was being said. But reportedly, little if anything of it ended up in the papers. The papers were finalized in handwritten form around 1934-1935. Sadler then brought in handwriting experts to analyze the handwriting of the papers and they all determined it did not match the handwriting of anyone involved. Including the CP.

OK, so that's where I'm lost. The stenographer is recording the contact, but that record doesn't end up in the published version? So what does instead? Some kind of editorial process? Of what, if not the contact records?

And what is the significance of the handwriting not being anybody's in the group? Whose should it be, if not one of them (or several of them each contributing their own pages)?

Progress has been made. That's a lot more focused a mystery than where I was before. Thank you.

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11 minutes ago, eight bits said:

OK, so that's where I'm lost. The stenographer is recording the contact, but that record doesn't end up in the published version? So what does instead? Some kind of editorial process? Of what, if not the contact records?

And what is the significance of the handwriting not being anybody's in the group? Whose should it be, if not one of them (or several of them each contributing their own pages)?

Progress has been made. That's a lot more focused a mystery than where I was before. Thank you.

I would want to know what the names of the stenographer and the handwriting expert, the names of all people present, the location and exact time and date. If none of this evidence is available, then the account can relegated to the category of the apocryphal. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Will

I did read that there was a group of individuals that discussed and edited the UB several times so this seems to me that it is not as divinely inspired as it is presented to be. I have to step out for a bit but will go back and look for the material that I read to post when I get back.

@Will Due

This is one of the links about the forum that I had read.

https://urantia-association.org/a-history-of-the-contact-commission-and-forum/

The Real Purpose of the Forum

During a Forum gathering one Sunday in December 1924, Dr. William was regaling the Forum with a tale of how he had been part of an investigative trio who went after crooks posing as psychics who conjured up spirits of the dead. His associates in the adventure were Howard Thurston, the famous sleight-of-hand magician, and a Chicago police detective. A Forum member asked whether any so-called trance mediums were likely receiving messages from real spirit beings, such as angels.

The real purpose of the Forum emerged that day. Dr. Lena was out of town, and Dr. William spilled the beans. The group was informed that they were being invited to participate in the inauguration of a new Revelation. Their task was to write down all the questions that had ever perplexed them and mankind—questions about God, the cosmos, life after death, anything.

He made it clear that he was not personally convinced the phenomena he, Lena, and the Kelloggs witnessed were genuine. Dr. William had tried every means to get to the bottom of the case. The group was informed by an invisible personality named Machiventa Melchizedek that a wonderful new revelation was coming. The answers to the questions posed by the group, Dr. William hoped, would help uncover whether a hoax was being perpetrated. Dr. Lena and the Kelloggs had been impressed with the spiritual quality of the material received up to that time. Melchizedek’s visit occurred on February 11, 1924, exactly one year after the first Forum meeting.

In January 1925 answers to the Forum’s questions began arriving in the form of chapters, which were really complete papers. The first series of 57 papers was expanded in response to further questions. The first papers had come one or two at a time, all in response to questions. If there were no questions, there were no papers. In 1935 a complete section (Part IV) arrived all at once. Jesus’ birthday was celebrated for the first time on August 21, 1935. The Forum reviewed the entire collection of papers for ambiguities and anything that needed clarification. Final corrections were made by the celestial beings, now referred to as The Revelators.

When papers on the Twelve Apostles arrived, Dr. William was astounded. The authors had penetrated the minds of 12 unique human beings and told their stories consistently. “I threw in the towel,” Dr. William declared. “I’m a psychiatrist, and I know my business. I could not create such consistent portraits of 12 different men.” Dr. William’s doubts crumbled.

Altogether, 485 people participated in the Forum between 1923 and 1956. Before 1955 the Forum did not have copies of papers to read during meetings. They could not take papers out of the building, nor could they take notes. They were pledged to secrecy. Today, we would refer to the Forum as a focus group. They listened to the papers while the celestial personalities observed their reactions. The Revelators tweaked the papers to make them comprehensible to humans. Forum members never heard or saw the celestial visitors. Despite the uniqueness of the Forum, some members left because the material was too demanding, too difficult, or of no interest.

 

What it appears to be is that they used people to question what they were given and refine the script to fit. Not only is it Xmas eve which just happened to fall on a rum Friday so thought I would add this link while still sober and may not respond until later like after I sober up.:lol:

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25 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

@Will Due

This is one of the links about the forum that I had read.

https://urantia-association.org/a-history-of-the-contact-commission-and-forum/

The Real Purpose of the Forum

During a Forum gathering one Sunday in December 1924, Dr. William was regaling the Forum with a tale of how he had been part of an investigative trio who went after crooks posing as psychics who conjured up spirits of the dead. His associates in the adventure were Howard Thurston, the famous sleight-of-hand magician, and a Chicago police detective. A Forum member asked whether any so-called trance mediums were likely receiving messages from real spirit beings, such as angels.

The real purpose of the Forum emerged that day. Dr. Lena was out of town, and Dr. William spilled the beans. The group was informed that they were being invited to participate in the inauguration of a new Revelation. Their task was to write down all the questions that had ever perplexed them and mankind—questions about God, the cosmos, life after death, anything.

He made it clear that he was not personally convinced the phenomena he, Lena, and the Kelloggs witnessed were genuine. Dr. William had tried every means to get to the bottom of the case. The group was informed by an invisible personality named Machiventa Melchizedek that a wonderful new revelation was coming. The answers to the questions posed by the group, Dr. William hoped, would help uncover whether a hoax was being perpetrated. Dr. Lena and the Kelloggs had been impressed with the spiritual quality of the material received up to that time. Melchizedek’s visit occurred on February 11, 1924, exactly one year after the first Forum meeting.

In January 1925 answers to the Forum’s questions began arriving in the form of chapters, which were really complete papers. The first series of 57 papers was expanded in response to further questions. The first papers had come one or two at a time, all in response to questions. If there were no questions, there were no papers. In 1935 a complete section (Part IV) arrived all at once. Jesus’ birthday was celebrated for the first time on August 21, 1935. The Forum reviewed the entire collection of papers for ambiguities and anything that needed clarification. Final corrections were made by the celestial beings, now referred to as The Revelators.

When papers on the Twelve Apostles arrived, Dr. William was astounded. The authors had penetrated the minds of 12 unique human beings and told their stories consistently. “I threw in the towel,” Dr. William declared. “I’m a psychiatrist, and I know my business. I could not create such consistent portraits of 12 different men.” Dr. William’s doubts crumbled.

Altogether, 485 people participated in the Forum between 1923 and 1956. Before 1955 the Forum did not have copies of papers to read during meetings. They could not take papers out of the building, nor could they take notes. They were pledged to secrecy. Today, we would refer to the Forum as a focus group. They listened to the papers while the celestial personalities observed their reactions. The Revelators tweaked the papers to make them comprehensible to humans. Forum members never heard or saw the celestial visitors. Despite the uniqueness of the Forum, some members left because the material was too demanding, too difficult, or of no interest.

 

What it appears to be is that they used people to question what they were given and refine the script to fit. Not only is it Xmas eve which just happened to fall on a rum Friday so thought I would add this link while still sober and may not respond until later like after I sober up.:lol:

More of the Urantia origins apocrypha.

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37 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

@Will Due

This is one of the links about the forum that I had read.

https://urantia-association.org/a-history-of-the-contact-commission-and-forum/

The Real Purpose of the Forum

During a Forum gathering one Sunday in December 1924, Dr. William was regaling the Forum with a tale of how he had been part of an investigative trio who went after crooks posing as psychics who conjured up spirits of the dead. His associates in the adventure were Howard Thurston, the famous sleight-of-hand magician, and a Chicago police detective. A Forum member asked whether any so-called trance mediums were likely receiving messages from real spirit beings, such as angels.

The real purpose of the Forum emerged that day. Dr. Lena was out of town, and Dr. William spilled the beans. The group was informed that they were being invited to participate in the inauguration of a new Revelation. Their task was to write down all the questions that had ever perplexed them and mankind—questions about God, the cosmos, life after death, anything.

He made it clear that he was not personally convinced the phenomena he, Lena, and the Kelloggs witnessed were genuine. Dr. William had tried every means to get to the bottom of the case. The group was informed by an invisible personality named Machiventa Melchizedek that a wonderful new revelation was coming. The answers to the questions posed by the group, Dr. William hoped, would help uncover whether a hoax was being perpetrated. Dr. Lena and the Kelloggs had been impressed with the spiritual quality of the material received up to that time. Melchizedek’s visit occurred on February 11, 1924, exactly one year after the first Forum meeting.

In January 1925 answers to the Forum’s questions began arriving in the form of chapters, which were really complete papers. The first series of 57 papers was expanded in response to further questions. The first papers had come one or two at a time, all in response to questions. If there were no questions, there were no papers. In 1935 a complete section (Part IV) arrived all at once. Jesus’ birthday was celebrated for the first time on August 21, 1935. The Forum reviewed the entire collection of papers for ambiguities and anything that needed clarification. Final corrections were made by the celestial beings, now referred to as The Revelators.

When papers on the Twelve Apostles arrived, Dr. William was astounded. The authors had penetrated the minds of 12 unique human beings and told their stories consistently. “I threw in the towel,” Dr. William declared. “I’m a psychiatrist, and I know my business. I could not create such consistent portraits of 12 different men.” Dr. William’s doubts crumbled.

Altogether, 485 people participated in the Forum between 1923 and 1956. Before 1955 the Forum did not have copies of papers to read during meetings. They could not take papers out of the building, nor could they take notes. They were pledged to secrecy. Today, we would refer to the Forum as a focus group. They listened to the papers while the celestial personalities observed their reactions. The Revelators tweaked the papers to make them comprehensible to humans. Forum members never heard or saw the celestial visitors. Despite the uniqueness of the Forum, some members left because the material was too demanding, too difficult, or of no interest.

 

What it appears to be is that they used people to question what they were given and refine the script to fit. Not only is it Xmas eve which just happened to fall on a rum Friday so thought I would add this link while still sober and may not respond until later like after I sober up.:lol:

 

Thanks for providing that link Jay. I've never read it before. It kind of answers some of the questions posed earlier.

 

 

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Ya know it's kind of funny. After reading the link, I was like cool, I only got half of what I was saying wrong :lol:

 

Merry Christmas to you all!

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Ya know it's kind of funny. After reading the link, I was like cool, I only got half of what I was saying wrong :lol:

 

Merry Christmas to you all!

 

 

God bless you Will and Merry Christmas!

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30 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Ya know it's kind of funny. After reading the link, I was like cool, I only got half of what I was saying wrong :lol:

 

Merry Christmas to you all!

 

 

Merry Christmas, Will.:D

Edited by Sherapy
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5 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

As far as I can surmise, applying Occam's Razor, The Urantia Papers/Book is the work of William S. Sadler, a disgruntled former Seventh Day Adventist, disillusioned by his Church's expulsion of his friend and mentor, John Harvey Kellog--yes that Kellog, creator of Corn Flakes. His unnamed source for the papers is, obviously himself, as they incorporate many of the principal tenets of the SDA church in which he was raised. There is no substantiated evidence for any other source. The fanciful origin stories are either a complete fabrication, or he genuinely believed he communed with aliens and-out of modesty-ambiguated the source of his "inspired" writings, excluding himself. It takes an extraordinary naive leap of faith to assume anything other. 

Interesting, I wonder which SDA mandates disgruntled him?

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Merry Christmas, Will.

And to all the other posters of our little S, R & B club.

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