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'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'


Luis Marco
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Just now, eight bits said:

Merry Christmas, Will.

And to all the other posters of our little S, R & B club.

Hi Eight Bits

Thanks and as a card carrying member of S.O.B Merry Christmas to you as well and best wishes for you and family

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11 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Interesting, I wonder which SDA mandates disgruntled him?

He had a falling out with Ellen G. Wright, SDA prophetess and founder.

William S. Sadler - Wikipedia

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2 hours ago, eight bits said:

Merry Christmas, Will.

And to all the other posters of our little S, R & B club.

Same to you Paul, much love to you and yours.

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2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Eight Bits

Thanks and as a card carrying member of S.O.B Merry Christmas to you as well and best wishes for you and family

Merry Xmas, Jay to you and yours.

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Just now, Sherapy said:

Merry Xmas, Jay to you and yours.

Light bearer, your out pretty cool its Christmas afternoon here in South Korea, so it must be Christmas Even in the US right?:D

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1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Light bearer, your out pretty cool its Christmas afternoon here in South Korea, so it must be Christmas Even in the US right?:D

Yes!:D

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13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Oh no. We. Are. All. Doomed. Turn or burn before it's too late.:lol:

Merry Xmas Xeno to you and yours. :wub:

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1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Yes!:D

Its snowing here in Korea, its wonderful for a Christmas day, it makes me remember my youth and my wonderful mother, father, and departed younger brother :tu:

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8 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

@eight bits

 

- Also, anything you know about Sadler's work process would be helpful. I only know the outlines, that there was a "sleeping subject" who was a patient. I take that as a literal description: the subject either talked in his sleep or recalled things in detail upon waking up from sleep (do you know which?). 

The term "sleeping subject" isn't used by the writers of the papers. Instead, in the case of the papers, he is referred to as just one of many "contact personalities" (CP) that were typically utilized throughout history for the purpose of advancing spiritual civilization. Sadler and his wife Lena were both physicians and the man who the readership community subsequently began to refer to as the "sleeping subject" was brought to their attention by his wife. She told them while he would often have disturbances during sleep, alarmingly, she would always be unable to wake him. (Some think this moment of introduction occurred as early as 1906.) The Sadlers then agreed to come to their apartment during these disturbances (they happened to live close by) to observe the woman's husband during the night in the hope of determining what if anything was medically wrong with him. At some point while asleep and still being unable to wake him one night, the CP began to speak in a voice unlike his own telling the Sadlers, they were in communication with beings from other worlds. They eventually were told that because of the fact that there exists great "conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity" in making contact this way, it was their purpose to enhance the real meaning of those terms as well as other things. But for certain reasons, this purpose wasn't immediately disclosed to them. Giving them time to get acclimated with what was going on. Which took several years. All the while, Sadler, being skeptical and doing what he always did, was looking for things to debunk while his wife Lena was more inclined to accept it for what they were saying it was.

 

 

 

- At some point, Sadler noted that there was a lot of coherent structure to what the subject was saying.

- I can understand that Sadler would decide that some record should be made of what the subject was saying. From what you write, maybe that's not so much because Sadler believed what the subject was saying at that point, but rather because it was an interesting phenomenon, maybe even medically significant for the patient.

A stenographer was brought in to record what was being said. But reportedly, little if anything of it ended up in the papers. The papers were finalized in handwritten form around 1934-1935. Sadler then brought in handwriting experts to analyze the handwriting of the papers and they all determined it did not match the handwriting of anyone involved. Including the CP. Early on when Sadler told the CP what was communicated through him, and I presume he was told that he was a sort of go between, the CP showed no interest at all in what was happening. During these early years, the Sadlers became familiar with the CP of course, they got to know him. Sadler said that it was interesting and quite remarkable that the CP's personal philosophy and religious inclinations where completely out of line with the information they were receiving during the night vigils.

 

 

 

- Assuming what I've said so far is more-or-less correct, then where I lose the plot is when Sadler assembles a "forum" of interested friends (?) to serve as both a source of questions for the subject and also an editorial board (?) in preparing the subject's answers for eventual publication. It seems to me that that would suggest a non-trivial level of belief by Sadler in the truth of the subject's content, beyond simply recognizing an interesting medical or psychological phenomenon.

If my memory serves me correctly, the "forum" you mentioned was initiated some time before 1906. One day Lena suggested they assemble their friends at their home for informal meetings on Sunday afternoons to discuss the latest ideas circulating at the time regarding current events and other things of a philosophical, medical and psychiatric nature. At that time it was an open affair and people would come and go. It was many years later that they closed these meetings and devoted them to being involved solely with the procedure of what ended up being the papers. At that point, everyone was sworn to secrecy and as the process continued to evolve there occurred, like it often does, the formation of factions among the forum members. Conflict developed and regrettably animosity turned up resulting in strife that I think still exists among the different UB organizations. Which is of course perfectly in line with everything that goes on when humans get together in groups, I might add LOL.

 

 

 

These are the sources of information I used to develop my opinion about the origins of the papers:

  • What's written in the papers themselves, specifically regarding the situation that brought about the papers.
  • Several hours of conversation I've had with other readers.
  • "The History of the Urantia Papers" by Larry Mullins. Who I've talked with about the origins of the papers a couple of times.

 

 

 

Hello Will hope, this finds you and your loved ones in good health, and that you all are safe and sound my friend. I have been reading you posts in this thread Will and they have ben great, i had no idea about your Spiritual Beliefs, and I must say its very interesting my friend!

A friend of yours stopped by and he wanted me to pass a special Christmas message to to you your posts made him very happy and you even made smile Will.

Take care and all the best to you

 

1887516661_YoumadeJesussmile.gif.56cb2b81094be758ff72f0c0a3727cc3.gif

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5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Merry Xmas, Jay to you and yours.

 

5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Same to you Paul, much love to you and yours.

Hi Sheri

 All the best to you and yours

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6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Its snowing here in Korea, its wonderful for a Christmas day, it makes me remember my youth and my wonderful mother, father, and departed younger brother :tu:

Hi Manwon

I had 2 consecutive brown Christmas's

The first one is where I am now living and the second was in Windsor so for me that was quite a change and wouldn't mind spending s winter in warm climes.:innocent::whistle:

Edited by jmccr8
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50 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

I had 2 consecutive brown Christmas's

The first one is where I am now living and the second was in Windsor so for me that was quite a change and wouldn't mind spending s winter in warm climes.:innocent::whistle:

You know for me the colder the better, now when it comes to heat I am like Superman and kryptonite!!:lol:

 

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6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You know for me the colder the better, now when it comes to heat I am like Superman and kryptonite!!:lol:

 

Hi Manawon

Where I grew up you could hear the pine cones shiver it would hit minus 50-60 with wind chill for 5-6 weeks and they didn't call it little Chicago for just the crime rate it is a windy city. Have had icicles form on my eyelashes while hanging upside down welding a bead on structural steel.. When I moved to Windsor my plan was to go tp Cuba as often as I could as it was a cheap trip. My daughter decided to have a baby. I wasn't much of a dad but have created a bond so I moved out here to be with them and have the experience of being a grampa and a man that cares for his family. I lived a different kind of life in the past and not very many people outside of family knew I had children and it wasn't until I could make a bold definitive move and let go of all of my past that I could focus on the future I have.:tu:

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Looks like this thread has officially ran its course.

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14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manawon

Where I grew up you could hear the pine cones shiver it would hit minus 50-60 with wind chill for 5-6 weeks and they didn't call it little Chicago for just the crime rate it is a windy city. Have had icicles form on my eyelashes while hanging upside down welding a bead on structural steel.. When I moved to Windsor my plan was to go tp Cuba as often as I could as it was a cheap trip. My daughter decided to have a baby. I wasn't much of a dad but have created a bond so I moved out here to be with them and have the experience of being a grampa and a man that cares for his family. I lived a different kind of life in the past and not very many people outside of family knew I had children and it wasn't until I could make a bold definitive move and let go of all of my past that I could focus on the future I have.:tu:

Well your lucky man to have, child and grandchildren and honestly I am jealous because you know I would give anything to be in your shoes man. My immediate family have all passed including my younger brother, so I have no ties in the United States, just a house and some other property. You know for most people if they reach a point where they are financially independent, their happy and we are too. But for me and my wife it creates a Delma because, since we lost our daughter we have no to give everything we accomplished too.:( But. we have found a Korean orphanage and it’s a beautiful well run place were the children are really taken care if. So, that’s more than likely where all we have will go someday. Its weird, I never thought about ending up in this position!

Take care!

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42 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Looks like this thread has officially ran its course.

Well all things have their time!

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4 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well your lucky man to have, child and grandchildren and honestly I am jealous because you know I would give anything to be in your shoes man. My immediate family have all passed including my younger brother, so I have no ties in the United States, just a house and some other property. You know for most people if they reach a point where they are financially independent, their happy and we are too. But for me and my wife it creates a Delma because, since we lost our daughter we have no to give everything we accomplished too.:( But. we have found a Korean orphanage and it’s a beautiful well run place were the children are really taken care if. So, that’s more than likely where all we have will go someday. Its weird, I never thought about ending up in this position!

Take care!

Hi Manwon

 To be honest my daughter was a sweet looking Mulato for a lot of guys and I thought she was just going to play them for the saps they are, then biology kicked in and she got to that age that she wanted to be a mommy. My grand-daughters dad was a user of women that lived in this country illegally and was intimidating her and her mom when I came out here. He tried to pull some ghetto punk crap on me and I said  you don't know where I am from and you are not much of a worry to me and never saw him, again for years

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28 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

 To be honest my daughter was a sweet looking Mulato for a lot of guys and I thought she was just going to play them for the saps they are, then biology kicked in and she got to that age that she wanted to be a mommy. My grand-daughters dad was a user of women that lived in this country illegally and was intimidating her and her mom when I came out here. He tried to pull some ghetto punk crap on me and I said  you don't know where I am from and you are not much of a worry to me and never saw him, again for years

Man, if I were you that guy would be serving a useful purpose fertilizing a beautiful section of Mother Earth somewhere!:D

Take care!:D

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5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Man, if I were you that guy would be serving a useful purpose fertilizing a beautiful section of Mother Earth somewhere!:D

Take care!:D

Hi Manwon

One time my daughter phoned me while he was ranting without him knowing and he said he was going to come to my house to kick my ass and she said good luck with that and gave him my address.:lol:

When he showed up he was mumbling while looking at my shoes:lol:

Edited by jmccr8
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On 12/24/2021 at 7:50 AM, SHaYap said:

All the titles under Osho are just republished material from his days as Bhagwan Sri Rajnesh, a name he can't use anymore. And it's all from the historical documents/annals of old zen / Buddhist archives ...

If I remember correctly, he's the first to popularise it all to a wider audience. It was much later that there were other printed material on the topics were available, like "The tao of physics" by Fritjof Capra, or the works of DT Suzuki and Alan Watts

~

 

I am watching “Wild Wild Country” quite a story. :P

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On 12/24/2021 at 5:28 AM, Nuclear Wessel said:

Interesting how they always fold when an offer is done to actually prove their abilities. I guess if you've already proved it to others there's no need to prove it to somebody under controlled conditions, right? :P

Or if one really has something they would have no issue doing what they can to prove it in the spirit of UM, the whole point of this forum is to explore the unexplained with evidence. :P

It could have been so much fun and bonding for  MW to just try, whatever the outcome. 

Peggy the exceptional tarot card reader comes to mind, while she didn’t undergird with claims of psychic prowess she offered to do a reading and one’s feedback was welcomed too. To date IMHO she was exceptional just as a person and reading others. 
 

 

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30 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

To date IMHO she was exceptional just as a person and reading others. 

I thought Peggy was awesome. I have never met somebody who was so familiar with tarot cards.

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5 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I thought Peggy was awesome. I have never met somebody who was so familiar with tarot cards.

What a great loss her leaving UM, but I also admire her boundaries. She was incredible, so passionate and could read so many decks. 

Edited by Sherapy
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8 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

One time my daughter phoned me while he was ranting without him knowing and he said he was going to come to my house to kick my ass and she said good luck with that and gave him my address.:lol:

When he showed up he was mumbling while looking at my shoes:lol:

It sounds like he is a real piece of work. It’s funny some people will make those kind of threats, and you sit and wait for them to show up and when they do something like that happens. Now the whole time you are sitting there waiting for them your getting mad and then you get anger and the individual shows up and you see it took all their courage to show up. Then as fast you became angry you see the person is frightened and all the anger just goes away, I mean at least for me, because how do you put hands on someone who’s obviously frightened I can’t do it, because I would feel terrible later. I suspect if that exact situation occurred to me I would just turn around and go in the house and close the door!:D

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On 12/23/2021 at 12:32 AM, Mr Walker said:

Just answering your question However, it goes to the question in the OP 

My take on the UB  is influenced by my own life -long contact with the cosmic consciousness which, i suspect,  tis the source of all human faiths (other than those deliberately constructed by humans  who know they are untrue) 

The point is no one can prove disprove my contact.

Neither can anyone prove /disprove the possible contact t which began the UB

I am a bit more "advanced" than others because  at least i can compare what i have learned and been shown, to that which the author of the UB was shown  But to everyone else it is about the peanut paste. Ie did I, or did I not, eat it?  have  I, or  have I not, lived most of my life in contact  with the cosmic consciousness 

Neither can be proven.

Both have to be accepted or denied on faith

I dont know if the UB is the result of a genuine contact, but a t least i know it is possible,  because I have eaten that particular   peanut paste :) 

Hey Mr. Walker, as far as the UB is concerned for me whether it’s real or not doesn’t matter to me at all, so long as it doesn’t harm other. Because if someone believes something that they use as their basis for spirituality I am in no position to question it, because no spirituality can be proven scientifically anyway.

Mr. Walker I have been reading page after page by you for months now where you say and I quote “”My take on the UB  is influenced by my own life -long contact with the cosmic consciousness which, i suspect,  tis the source of all human faiths (other than those deliberately constructed by humans  who know they are untrue)  Now here’s the rub MR. Walker to continually say that you have a cosmic consciousness I have come to conclusion on the subject, and I want to give a chance to prove your abilities, hopefully you agree.

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