Shoplifting and looting becoming more common

[+Liquid Gardens]

16 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Okay - I’ll post a link. Can we move on from the logger/police officer comparisons now?

Isn't that what you commented originally about?  Let's go back 24 hours, you quoted my list of most dangerous jobs, which was a reply to someone else about how police supposedly live with their lives on the line every minute.  You said there was a serious flaw in my argument, please state exactly what you think my flawed argument is, maybe there's a miscommunication there.

19 minutes ago, simplybill said:

“As of Tuesday midnight, the FOP recorded 314 officers shot in the line of duty — 58 of whom were killed. "We are on pace this year to see the highest number of officers shot in the line of duty in one year ever recorded," FOP president Patrick Yoes said in a Wednesday statement. "We've already had more officers killed in the line of duty by gunfire this year than any other — and there is still one month left." Additionally, the FOP recorded 95 ambush-style attacks so far this year – a 126% increase compared to 2020 – that resulted in 119 officers shot, 28 of whom were killed.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/record-police-officers-shot-killed-2021

I have no idea what the point of the above is.  From what I've been able to tell even with the recent increase in police fatalities logging is still about three times as dangerous.  It's really not difficult to me to understand why, currently gravity is several times more dangerous overall than criminals.

If the point is to show how dangerous in general it is to be a cop, yes it is obviously more dangerous than what most people have to do.  But let's keep some perspective here, 314 officers have been shot in your above quote out of almost 700,000 police officers in the US.  Even if I'm way generous and cut that number in half for police officers who don't work in dangerous positions within law enforcement, that's still about 1 in 1000 cops.  Way too many of course, but in my view we're miles away from the idea that cops have their lives on the line every minute of every day.

[simplybill]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You said there was a serious flaw in my argument, please state exactly what you think my flawed argument is, maybe there's a miscommunication there.

Yes, I think there is a miscommunication. The comparisons between the various occupations are, in my opinion, irrelevant, because the causes of death are too dissimilar. Loggers, fisherman, etc., are more likely to die in accidents, whereas police officers are involved in situations where they risk intentional death from other humans.

I see your point that loggers and others are at greater risk of dying on the job, though to me the decay in our society that has emboldened criminals to target police officers and commit crimes such as arson and looting, ultimately affects all of society, not just the law enforcement community. With loggers, etc., the death count, while tragic, isn’t a result of societal decay.

[Agent0range]

11 hours ago, Myles said:

Not surprising you start screaming "You are a racist" again.  It is your go to move.   You are a very hateful person.   Try being kind, it is wonderful.

Yes, I go mostly from personal experience with police officers to help form my opinion.    Being a police officer IS an honorable profession whether you like it or not.  Yes there are some bad cops, but not as many as the media would have you believe.  

To be honest, these are the only posts you have ever said anything about being kind.  90% of your posts contain the word "idiot."  And that's not an exaggeration. 

[jmccr8]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:00 PM, Zebra3 said:

Not sure how many roofers and fisherman have to deal with criminals daily.

Hi Zebra

Hi risk is high risk period BBC and if your making a living at it it is daily criminals or not

[+Liquid Gardens]

32 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Yes, I think there is a miscommunication. The comparisons between the various occupations are, in my opinion, irrelevant, because the causes of death are too dissimilar. Loggers, fisherman, etc., are more likely to die in accidents, whereas police officers are involved in situations where they risk intentional death from other humans.

I see no difference in these.  I think a police officer faced with a threatening human is no more dangerous or 'dissimilar' or worse than a logger up in a tree hearing a branch crack above him.

33 minutes ago, simplybill said:

I see your point that loggers and others are at greater risk of dying on the job, though to me the decay in our society that has emboldened criminals to target police officers and commit crimes such as arson and looting, ultimately affects all of society, not just the law enforcement community. With loggers, etc., the death count, while tragic, isn’t a result of societal decay.

Okay, there's a lot of right-wing messaging there but fair point.  Personally I'm not affected much at all that I can think of by arson and looting, other than just being more crime in the background and what it means about our society, et al.  Crime has always been at decently high levels, still not sure how close we are to the 90s when violent crime rates were higher. I agree though that there must have been a miscommunication, as societal decay doesn't really intersect much with any argument I've made.

[Freez1]

They should pass a law that it’s legal to open fire on thieves. Looting is nothing but a different word for a POS thief.

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, Freez1 said:

They should pass a law that it’s legal to open fire on thieves. Looting is nothing but a different word for a POS thief.

They'll never do that. Otherwise it would be so very easy to murder people, frame them of theft, and get away with it.

[+Desertrat56]

13 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Desertrat

In most instances  I agree that weapons are not used by shoplifters in general. It is possible that an individual does have a weapon and use it if caught. although based on how much is stole nationally on a daily basis and number of incidents is hardy significantly notable .

If someone has a weapon when they shoplift they intend to use it if they get caught and that makes it robbery, not shoplifting.  Shoplifitng is what teenagers and desperate or drugged up adults do on a dare or because they want something they can't afford, usually small items.   If they get caught they run if they can, they don't shoot people or fight back to the extent that someone gets hurt or dies.  It is a totally different intent and perspective.   

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

If someone has a weapon when they shoplift they intend to use it if they get caught and that makes it robbery, not shoplifting.  Shoplifitng is what teenagers and desperate or drugged up adults do on a dare or because they want something they can't afford, usually small items.   If they get caught they run if they can, they don't shoot people or fight back to the extent that someone gets hurt or dies.  It is a totally different intent and perspective.   

I think you are correct with the majority of shoplifters.  It doesn't make me feel empathetic t them though.   They are still thieves.  I don't think shooting them if they do not have a weapon is the way to go.  Harsher penalties would be nice.  

[Zebra3]

Problem solved.

As crime rates soar, New York Gov. attempts to 'improve public safety' by changing law so that 'inmates' will now be referred to as 'incarcerated individuals'

New York Governor Kathy Hochul has just signed a law that stipulates "inmates" in her state will now be referred to as "incarcerated individuals," a move that is unlikely to stymie the surge in violent crime that has recently plagued nearly every major metropolitan area in America, including New York City.

According to a statement released by her office, Hochul claims that the language change will help "justice-involved" persons feel better about themselves and may perhaps encourage them to engage more seriously in their rehabilitation efforts.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/as-crime-rates-soar-new-york-gov-attempts-to-improve-public-safety-by-changing-law-so-that-inmates-will-now-be-referred-to-as-incarcerated-individuals

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, Zebra3 said:

Problem solved.

As crime rates soar, New York Gov. attempts to 'improve public safety' by changing law so that 'inmates' will now be referred to as 'incarcerated individuals'

New York Governor Kathy Hochul has just signed a law that stipulates "inmates" in her state will now be referred to as "incarcerated individuals," a move that is unlikely to stymie the surge in violent crime that has recently plagued nearly every major metropolitan area in America, including New York City.

According to a statement released by her office, Hochul claims that the language change will help "justice-involved" persons feel better about themselves and may perhaps encourage them to engage more seriously in their rehabilitation efforts.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/as-crime-rates-soar-new-york-gov-attempts-to-improve-public-safety-by-changing-law-so-that-inmates-will-now-be-referred-to-as-incarcerated-individuals

the lefty sat its best.   Good gads!  What a waste of time.  

[+Desertrat56]

Who elected her?  How does changing words make anyone safer?

[Zebra3]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who elected her?  How does changing words make anyone safer?

Imagine the red tape/paperwork that comes with that.

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

If someone has a weapon when they shoplift they intend to use it if they get caught and that makes it robbery, not shoplifting.  Shoplifitng is what teenagers and desperate or drugged up adults do on a dare or because they want something they can't afford, usually small items.   If they get caught they run if they can, they don't shoot people or fight back to the extent that someone gets hurt or dies.  It is a totally different intent and perspective.   

Hi Desertrat

I worked on a job and the painters helper had been in jail for shop lifting. He had a knife in his pocket that he did not beamish during the offence and was also charged for carrying a concealed weapon. 
In part I think the charge for the weapon was just so he did more time for the offence. This was explained to me by his boss who was a Christian that did prison visits as part of his ministry and wanted to make sure I was okay having him on the site.

As I said anyone shop lifting doesn’t use a weapon in the commission of the crime and in this instance one wasn’t used either he just had a knife in his pocket and never used or threatened with it.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Desertrat

I worked on a job and the painters helper had been in jail for shop lifting. He had a knife in his pocket that he did not beamish during the offence and was also charged for carrying a concealed weapon. 
In part I think the charge for the weapon was just so he did more time for the offence. This was explained to me by his boss who was a Christian that did prison visits as part of his ministry and wanted to make sure I was okay having him on the site.

As I said anyone shop lifting doesn’t use a weapon in the commission of the crime and in this instance one wasn’t used either he just had a knife in his pocket and never used or threatened with it.

And as I said, intent for carrying the weapon is what makes the difference between shoplifting and robbery.  If you walk in to a store with a gun, and shoplift, there is no way to explain the intent is not robbery.  A knife, who a lot of people have a habit of carrying, is not the same, especially when they don't take it out with intent.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

And as I said, intent for carrying the weapon is what makes the difference between shoplifting and robbery.  If you walk in to a store with a gun, and shoplift, there is no way to explain the intent is not robbery.  A knife, who a lot of people have a habit of carrying, is not the same, especially when they don't take it out with intent.

Hi Desertrat

He got the weapons charge so they could give him a lengthier sentence. People shop lift rather than robbery because of the type of sentence they get if caught. And for him having a knife was incidental, however the police used it to add charges to give him the longer sentence. I carry a knife all the time myself and have done so all my life. 
 We are in agreement about shop lifting 

[Myles]

 

 

The New York Police department is looking for a hammer-wielding detergent bandit accused of hitting a 70-year-old laundromat employee. 

The suspect went into the Brooklyn business just before 5 a.m. Aug. 4, police say.

Surveillance video shows the man approach the back of the business and attempt to remove detergent being sold at the location without paying for the items.

The elderly employee then approaches the suspect when the robber used a hammer that reportedly belonged to the business to hit the employee approximately four times in the head.

The suspect loses some of the items he attempted to steal during the struggle with the employee, and takes off in an unknown direction with the hammer.  

https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-defending-nyc-laundromat-hammer-wielding-detergent-bandit-caught-cam

[Myles]

 

 

Three teenagers assaulted a 6-year-old girl and stole her scooter in New York City, according to footage released by the New York Police Department.

Surveillance cameras captured part of the July 28 incident, showing the three teenage boys fleeing the scene with the scooter. One of the teens allegedly punched the girl in the chest, and she was treated at the scene.

The girl suffered no major injuries.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/six-year-old-nyc-girl-punched-robbed-scooter-broad-daylight

[el midgetron]

A Chicago cab driver accused of kidnapping a woman and sexually assaulting her has pleaded guilty in exchange for probation, according to a report published on Friday…..

…..Early on June 13, 2015, the then-23-year-old victim went out with friends to celebrate her passing the Certified Public Accountant exam, prosecutors said during Masri’s initial bail hearing. At the end of the night, the victim and other women took Masri’s cab to one of the women’s homes in Ravenswood. However, the victim told friends that she preferred to sleep in her own bed, and she asked Masri to drive her home.

She nodded off in the backseat and a friend wrote down the taxi’s number when it pulled away, according to prosecutors.

The report continued:

Prosecutors said Masri drove the victim for three hours around Ravenswood, Lincoln Park, and Lakeview. Then, they alleged, he stopped his taxi in the 2600 block of North Paulina in Lincoln Park and sexually assaulted the woman while she was asleep in the back seat. He later dropped the victim off near her Lakeview apartment building.

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2022/08/13/report-chicago-cabbie-accused-kidnapping-sexual-assault-gets-probation/

[+Paranoid Android]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:27 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

How do you know they are all 'equally biased'?  That's a much different claim than the obvious that they are all biased sometimes.  How are you measuring this equality and how should it be measured, because it sounds pretty complicated to me? Based on amount of airtime spent on biased stories?  Number of different biased stories?  The degree to which the stories are biased?  The effect of people believing these biased stories?

Is this a semantic complaint about the use of the term "equally" biased? The mainstream media (including Fox) is biased in the extreme. They have a narrative that they focus on, and they filter all their stories through that filter. From that point of view they are all EQUALLY biased. Individual articles may be more or less biased depending on the subject, but they are all filtered by the narrative. 

Every story you read is filtered through that narrative bias, and depending on the topic it will be more or less noticeable. I repeatedly say that you will rarely see the media make outright lies. But they will ignore information that goes against their narrative, and highlight any information that supports it, no matter how tenuous it may be. 

I can provide countless examples of stories that are elevated or ignored, or part of a story elevated while shushing another element of the story. ! I'm not going to here and list examples as it would take the discussion off topic. But I'll provide examples of what I mean if you request it. 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 11:27 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

And that is exactly what people on the right do also, most people who use the term 'MSM' are referring to left-wing media and they usually use that term as part of a criticism or complaint.

I don't know how you know that people make this 'unwarranted assumption' to any significant degree.  Most of the time I disagree with the argument that you need to live in the US in order to comment on US topics, for most arguments here people are getting their information not from their personal experience but from the same media/information that anyone in the world now has access to.  However when you talk about 'people' you are potentially referencing information that you are at a disadvantage as far as collecting since you don't encounter as many Americans as Americans do, and thus likely aren't familiar with the unwarranted assumptions they are making.

My reference to "people" was literally based on statistics - see this link for more detail - that clearly outlines just what the trust vs distrust ratings are among Americans, and it's clear that Fox News gets a significant share of the "trust" rating, comparable with many of the other mainstream news outlets (and bettered only by CNN and ABC). But there appears to be a significant difference in distrust ratings of Fox compared to the rest of the media sources. Edit: trying to link a table/image from the article: 

This supports my statement (hypothesis, if you will) that people do in fact perceive Fox News to be "the right wing conservative news" and every other mainstream network to be "the real news" (not "the left wing progressive news"). This naturally doesn't apply to every human being who reads the news, but it is enough to be statistically significant at the end of the day. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Paranoid Android

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, Zebra3 said:

Problem solved.

As crime rates soar, New York Gov. attempts to 'improve public safety' by changing law so that 'inmates' will now be referred to as 'incarcerated individuals'

New York Governor Kathy Hochul has just signed a law that stipulates "inmates" in her state will now be referred to as "incarcerated individuals," a move that is unlikely to stymie the surge in violent crime that has recently plagued nearly every major metropolitan area in America, including New York City.

According to a statement released by her office, Hochul claims that the language change will help "justice-involved" persons feel better about themselves and may perhaps encourage them to engage more seriously in their rehabilitation efforts.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/as-crime-rates-soar-new-york-gov-attempts-to-improve-public-safety-by-changing-law-so-that-inmates-will-now-be-referred-to-as-incarcerated-individuals

 

You couldn't tell Hochul's a liberal, right?  lol 

[Likely Guy]

On 8/9/2022 at 9:14 PM, Freez1 said:

They should pass a law that it’s legal to open fire on thieves. Looting is nothing but a different word for a POS thief.

Be careful. You're including a former President in that.

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

Is this a semantic complaint about the use of the term "equally" biased? The mainstream media (including Fox) is biased in the extreme. They have a narrative that they focus on, and they filter all their stories through that filter. From that point of view they are all EQUALLY biased.

That glosses over way too much in my view, that's like saying that football teams all have an offensive and defensive strategy and they all score touchdowns and from that point of view they are all equally good at it.  Just because everything is biased it does not follow that everything is biased to the same degree or equally, that so far is the flaw I see in your argument and seems to just be an assumption you are making.

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

This supports my statement (hypothesis, if you will) that people do in fact perceive Fox News to be "the right wing conservative news" and every other mainstream network to be "the real news" (not "the left wing progressive news").

That to me is a very skewed way to view these statistics, I think we've talked about this before.  I don't know how you are making these psychological assumptions about people based on a for instance 5% difference in the 'Distrust' levels between Fox and CNN.  If we agree that the 40% distrust of Fox qualifies it for 'biased right-wing' then it makes zero sense to me that a slight decrease to 35% distrust level is assumed to be 'the real news'. I have no idea where you're getting that, why isn't it 'slightly less biased left-wing news', why did you just totally ignore the distrust level of CNN like it's zero or something?  To elaborate on the flaw I mentioned above, show me your evidence that the distrust levels between CNN and Fox News do not actually perfectly represent the actual difference in bias between them.  To me, that seems like a very complicated and subjective question for laymen, do you go by strictly sheer amount of time on biased programming, do you provide a measure based on how biased it is and give that more weight, do you provide a measure for stories that 'should be' but are not covered?  You feel confident in your knowledge and experience to be able to determine and measure any of that?  If you've got some kind of study or something which shows or justifies your claim that every other mainstream network is viewed as 'real news' that would help.

[Likely Guy]

A quick primer on the Fourth Estate: "The term Fourth Estate or fourth power refers to the press and news media both in explicit capacity of advocacy and implicit ability to frame political issues." source Wiki

It's been that way forever. Why are we so amazed now that news sources are biased?

[+DieChecker]

On 8/10/2022 at 12:10 PM, Myles said:

 

 

Three teenagers assaulted a 6-year-old girl and stole her scooter in New York City, according to footage released by the New York Police Department.

Surveillance cameras captured part of the July 28 incident, showing the three teenage boys fleeing the scene with the scooter. One of the teens allegedly punched the girl in the chest, and she was treated at the scene.

The girl suffered no major injuries.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/six-year-old-nyc-girl-punched-robbed-scooter-broad-daylight

There's good business in scooter chop shop parts. 

Major NYC industry.