Medium claims old Bible was placed in attic by ghost

[UM-Bot]

Paranormal investigator Yvonne Hydes got quite a surprise when she found that the book had materialized in her house.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/352897/medium-claims-old-bible-was-placed-in-attic-by-ghost

[Stiff]

Yes. Of course that's what happened Yvonne. And no doubt there will be gullible suckers out there to believe that garbage.

Meh.  Charlatans.

[jethrofloyd]

To me this sounds like a amusing fantasy story taken from the Harry Potter books.

[papageorge1]

I believe apports do happen from the quantity. quality and consistency of the claims.

Papameter Reading

65% Paranormal     20% Normal Explanation       15% Hoax

 

[csspwns]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I believe apports do happen from the quantity. quality and consistency of the claims.

Papameter Reading

65% Paranormal     20% Normal Explanation       15% Hoax

 

Now if anyone who claims an object was 'Apported' decided to get someone to do fingerprint analysis on it to see who has touched it then I would be interested. However with claims like these everyone just decides to claim paranormal activity instead of trying to rule out all other possible explanations eh? Sure it would take more effort to get someone (rational) to actually do analysis on it given that it involves the paranormal, but if I truly wanted to rule out all other explanations before claiming paranormal, it's the least someone can do. 

papageorge, when will we have a rational person with a scientific background and no ulterior motives claim paranormal occurances beyond reasonable doubt because all other explanations have been tested and ruled out? Every story I read is equally similar and disappointing because no one who claims paranormal activity ever gives any scientific thought to it. 

And scientific people never have these paranormal experiences happen to them because to them so far, there is always a tangible and natural explanation.

Edited November 25, 2021 by csspwns

[Rlyeh]

Surprised she didn't say it floated down from Heaven.

[papageorge1]

17 hours ago, csspwns said:

Now if anyone who claims an object was 'Apported' decided to get someone to do fingerprint analysis on it to see who has touched it then I would be interested. However with claims like these everyone just decides to claim paranormal activity instead of trying to rule out all other possible explanations eh? Sure it would take more effort to get someone (rational) to actually do analysis on it given that it involves the paranormal, but if I truly wanted to rule out all other explanations before claiming paranormal, it's the least someone can do. 

 

Easier said than done. You don't know the timestamp on fingerprints for example. In a case like this the best we can do estimate likelihood which considers the reliability of the testimony. I believe in apports from some other very compelling stories I've heard.

17 hours ago, csspwns said:

 

papageorge, when will we have a rational person with a scientific background and no ulterior motives claim paranormal occurances beyond reasonable doubt because all other explanations have been tested and ruled out? Every story I read is equally similar and disappointing because no one who claims paranormal activity ever gives any scientific thought to it. 

 

Paranormal investigators consider all possibilities as a natural course of consideration.

17 hours ago, csspwns said:

 

And scientific people never have these paranormal experiences happen to them because to them so far, there is always a tangible and natural explanation.

No, I've must have heard a hundred times someone say that they are a skeptic or scientist and then go on to relate an experience they cannot explain.

[moonman]

So this "investigator" finds this book in her house, and her first thought it that it is from some other "investigation" she did where the ghosts wanted her to return it to somebody by dropping it off at her house, like she's a ghost librarian or some ****. I believe they call that a leap of faith of galactic proportions.

I personally call it nothing but a BS stunt to further her "brand". Unless it has a name in it or it has distinctive markings there's no way to say who it belongs to, there's probably a hundred thousand others just like it so anyone saying "oh yes this was my granddads thank you magical ghost librarian" is full of crap. How many people actually know what their "family bible" looks like (down to every small detail) in the first place, and could pick it out of a line up? Especially if has been gone for decades?

Of course, there's not even a pic of it.

Edited November 25, 2021 by moonman

[Stiff]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Paranormal investigators consider all possibilities as a natural course of consideration.

[Berwen]

There is no doubt that this is the ghost of DB Cooper. Perhaps the ghost will tell the investigator when the money is? "ya think"

[csspwns]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:57 AM, papageorge1 said:

Easier said than done. You don't know the timestamp on fingerprints for example. In a case like this the best we can do estimate likelihood which considers the reliability of the testimony. I believe in apports from some other very compelling stories I've heard.

Paranormal investigators consider all possibilities as a natural course of consideration.

No, I've must have heard a hundred times someone say that they are a skeptic or scientist and then go on to relate an experience they cannot explain.

First of all, were there any tangible or physical experiences that the scientists have experienced or were they mental/spiritual experiences? If it is tangible or physical, then it can definitely be recorded or analyzed in some way known to science. If a scientist really had an experience (especially if it were tangible or physical) they couldn't explain, I would bet most of them would stop at nothing in order to figure out what it was they experienced, otherwise, they wouldn't be scientists. Was there any data recorded of their experiences and reasonings as to why they couldn't explain it? Was there any additional research into their experience shared in an (study) article that other people can try analyze and replicate? Surely at least one of the scientists would have written a lengthy piece about their experience and thoroughly investigated it to rule out all possible natural causes right? Can you show me some of those pieces? When I Google and Google Scholar things like "scientists researching paranormal" or "scientists with paranormal experiences" I come up with nothing. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by csspwns

[+OverSword]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:30 PM, csspwns said:

And scientific people never have these paranormal experiences happen to them because to them so far, there is always a tangible and natural explanation.

Can you prove that, or are you making an assumption?

[+OverSword]

On 11/25/2021 at 11:19 AM, moonman said:

 

So this "investigator" finds this book in her house, and her first thought it that it is from some other "investigation" she did where the ghosts wanted her to return it to somebody by dropping it off at her house, like she's a ghost librarian or some ****. I believe they call that a leap of faith of galactic proportions

 

Re-read it. That’s not what happened. There were several theories they looked at. And I don’t think it was a person that lives in the home that came up with the apport theory.
 

Never heard of apport specifically although I have witnessed a friend who lived in a house he thought was haunted put his keys on a table only for them to disappear for 20 minutes before reappearing where he had originally left them after tearing the place apart searching for them. Told me that happened at least once a week. There were many of our friends that witnessed weird things in that house. 

[moonman]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

That’s not what happened.

OBVIOUSLY that's not what happened. Hucksters gonna huck.

Edited November 27, 2021 by moonman

[+OverSword]

36 minutes ago, moonman said:

OBVIOUSLY that's not what happened. Hucksters gonna huck.

That’s not the account of events regardless of truth or accuracy. You should read the stories your going to comment on so your comments could at least be good criticism.

[moonman]

25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That’s not the account of events regardless of truth or accuracy. You should read the stories your going to comment on so your comments could at least be good criticism.

Who cares about he said/she details or who came up with the "explanation" when someone is trying to claim a ghost left a book somewhere and they all seem to agree. You miss the forest for the trees. Nobody involved with the "psychic" is claiming any explanation beyond paranormal and that's all that matters. Bunk is bunk regardless of spin.

Edited November 27, 2021 by moonman

[papageorge1]

7 hours ago, csspwns said:

First of all, were there any tangible or physical experiences that the scientists have experienced or were they mental/spiritual experiences? If it is tangible or physical, then it can definitely be recorded or analyzed in some way known to science. If a scientist really had an experience (especially if it were tangible or physical) they couldn't explain, I would bet most of them would stop at nothing in order to figure out what it was they experienced, otherwise, they wouldn't be scientists. Was there any data recorded of their experiences and reasonings as to why they couldn't explain it? Was there any additional research into their experience shared in an (study) article that other people can try analyze and replicate? Surely at least one of the scientists would have written a lengthy piece about their experience and thoroughly investigated it to rule out all possible natural causes right? Can you show me some of those pieces? When I Google and Google Scholar things like "scientists researching paranormal" or "scientists with paranormal experiences" I come up with nothing. 

Apparently you have not spent much time studying the paranormal. There are a hundred scientists who study and accept the paranormal. And yes it is more challenging to study phenomena that, to us, occurs spontaneously and randomly like the Bible apport in the OP story.

[csspwns]

9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Apparently you have not spent much time studying the paranormal. There are a hundred scientists who study and accept the paranormal. And yes it is more challenging to study phenomena that, to us, occurs spontaneously and randomly like the Bible apport in the OP story.

I'm looking for a study on the paranormal that has passed peer-review by other scientists. Not a single one of the studies written by the names listed on the website have passed peer-review such as having things wrong with their methodology, test subjects confessing to hoaxing, being prone to bias, inadequate evidence, unable to have results replicated, etc. Can you please provide me with a study that is not flawed in some way and is irrefutable proof of the paranormal that can be observed, scrutinized and replicated by other people? So far all the studies I read have failed when analyzed and placed under scrutiny by other scientists. 

[csspwns]

12 hours ago, OverSword said:

Can you prove that, or are you making an assumption?

This is an assumption based off another assumption that the scientists are rational, unbiased, and have no other ulterior motives or influences such as religious ones. For example, I have a Hindi friend who is a brilliant civil engineer, but he is prone to bias due to his religious beliefs. He is basically a materialistic and grounded person which makes him a great engineer until it comes to things that involve his religion, that's when all his scientific thinking goes out the window. I was his roommate at the time, and one morning he told me about a vision he had involving a deity telling him of something personal he had to do as he was floating in a gentle wind. He didn't mention anything of that sort for a week, and about a week later while he was sleeping, I fanned his face and the following morning he told me he had a similar vision where the deity told him his task was accomplished as he was floating in a gentle wind. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was fanning him that night. Ever since he had that "experience" he has become a more avid practitioner of his religion while still being great at his work. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, csspwns said:

I'm looking for a study on the paranormal that has passed peer-review by other scientists. Not a single one of the studies written by the names listed on the website have passed peer-review such as having things wrong with their methodology, test subjects confessing to hoaxing, being prone to bias, inadequate evidence, unable to have results replicated, etc. Can you please provide me with a study that is not flawed in some way and is irrefutable proof of the paranormal that can be observed, scrutinized and replicated by other people? So far all the studies I read have failed when analyzed and placed under scrutiny by other scientists. 

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Excerpt:

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

Edited November 28, 2021 by papageorge1

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 hours ago, moonman said:

OBVIOUSLY that's not what happened. Hucksters gonna huck.

Lets take a different approach to this, a very fair and reasonable approach since you have a strong opinion on this subject. The beliefs are really no different than any main stream religious beliefs that exist on Planet Earth except for Buddhism, and also all religious beliefs again except Buddhism state that there is spiritual realm, that allows the Dead to not only communicated with the living but also cause harm to the living. You see Buddhists dont believe in Spiritual Energy wondering only being transmitted from the dead to a living fetus as part of reincarnation. The only way the reincarnation process ends is when those that practice Buddhism ( like myself  )  final over the course of many many life times reaches Enlightenment or what is called Nirvana.

Then the process of rebirth stops and the Buddhist  member becomes a pure form of energy when they die, however according to Buddhist Philosophy the person is fully aware and conscience in that form. However,  they exist on different spiritual plain of existence and while they can  observe human race if they choose to, they are unable to communicate, touch, or effect any out come occurring within humanity. To Buddhists there are no omnipotent deities that Create everything, can see and control everything, and that has all control of creating and taking life. Buddha himself was a normal man, born like one and died like one he also had no supernatural power. So Buddhists dont believe in any God or its polar opposite the Devil. 

So lets play a new game called 180 degrees, its very simple game after all.

So why dont you prove with absolute certainty that no form of Spiritual Energy exists positively without any possible doubt???

If you are unable to do that leave these people alone and let them enjoy their conversation without such interruptions.  While beliefs differ on the subject for the most part everyone deserves to be treated with tolerance like I am doing here with you.

Please dont say well science says so,  that is not proof anymore than the opinions expressed are. You see I believe in science in all areas except spirituality ( i did not say religion so please dont be  confused  ). But I am also very aware that based upon our scientific knowledge at this point in history the greatest Biologists and Astrobiologists can not even present  a agreed upon definition of what constitutes life and this is November of 2021. 

Namaste or Peace

Edited November 28, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[csspwns]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Excerpt:

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

Thank you. This study seems much more comprehensive and methodologically sound than everything else out there. It seems to be just an issue of interpreting the significance of the results and possibly biased/selective data. I see there's some back and forth between Utts and Hyman. I'll take my time to digest the study and both viewpoints. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by csspwns

[papageorge1]

7 hours ago, csspwns said:

Thank you. This study seems much more comprehensive and methodologically sound than everything else out there. It seems to be just an issue of interpreting the significance of the results and possibly biased/selective data. I see there's some back and forth between Utts and Hyman. I'll take my time to digest the study and both viewpoints. 

Yes but beyond this statistical boring stuff comes the more fascinating aspects of the paranormal (like the Bible in the OP) that are spontaneous and unpredictable and not subjectable to controlled laboratory study.

You might say this OP story could be erroneous or involves lying but to claim that on all of the thousands of paranormal stories I've heard over decades I believe puts you on very very thin ice.

Edited November 28, 2021 by papageorge1

[csspwns]

On 11/28/2021 at 8:52 AM, papageorge1 said:

Yes but beyond this statistical boring stuff comes the more fascinating aspects of the paranormal (like the Bible in the OP) that are spontaneous and unpredictable and not subjectable to controlled laboratory study.

You might say this OP story could be erroneous or involves lying but to claim that on all of the thousands of paranormal stories I've heard over decades I believe puts you on very very thin ice.

Actually, it should be the other way around. After all extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. With so many thousands of claims one would expect to have that extraordinary evidence by now given that it supposedly interacts with the physical world as well. That extraordinary evidence has yet to materialize.

[papageorge1]

8 hours ago, csspwns said:

Actually, it should be the other way around. After all extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. With so many thousands of claims one would expect to have that extraordinary evidence by now given that it supposedly interacts with the physical world as well. That extraordinary evidence has yet to materialize.

I consider the quantity, quality and consistency of the anecdotal, investigative and experimental evidence to be extraordinary. I find it overwhelming to the point of 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

Just on the controlled experimental data:

 

“After a century of increasingly sophisticated investigations and more than a thousand controlled studies with combined odds against chance of 10 to the 104th power to 1, there is now strong evidence that psi phenomena exist. While this is an impressive statistic, all it means is that the outcomes of these experiments are definitely not due to coincidence. We’ve considered other common explanations like selective reporting and variations in experimental quality, and while those factors do moderate the overall results, there can be no little doubt that overall something interesting is going on. It seems increasingly likely that as physics continues to redefine our understanding of the fabric of reality, a theoretical outlook for a rational explanation for psi will eventually be established 

Dr, Dean Radin

 

10 to the 104th power is clearly an extraordinary number.

Edited December 1, 2021 by papageorge1