Question about vaccine

[Duke Wellington]

So far I have noticed from scientific articles that:

1. Not all people have an anti-body response to coronavirus. Something like 10% of people have a t-cell response instead.

2. Natural immunity is believed to be superior to a spike protein vaccine.

3. Have the vaccine and catching corona is believed to give people the most immunity.

So why arent we giving out the vaccine, calling people in a month later and injecting them with the actual virus, while asking for blood from those with a t-cell response to inject t-cells into those it goes wrong in?

[acute]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Natural immunity is believed to be superior to a spike protein vaccine.

That's absolute bollox! 

[ChrLzs]

So you're giving out (and inviting) medical 'suggestions' and you didn't even manage to cite ONE of your claim's references or sources?

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

So far I have noticed from scientific articles that:

1. Not all people have an anti-body response to coronavirus. Something like 10% of people have a t-cell response instead.

2. Natural immunity is believed to be superior to a spike protein vaccine.e

3. Have the vaccine and catching corona is believed to give people the most immunity.

So why arent we giving out the vaccine, calling people in a month later and injecting them with the actual virus, while asking for blood from those with a t-cell response to inject t-cells into those it goes wrong in?

Hey this sounds like a great topic to discuss thanks for starting this thread.

""1. Not all people have an anti-body response to coronavirus. Something like 10% of people have a t-cell response instead. ""

Actually that isn't exactly correct, almost no one has an immediate antibody response to COVID 19 because antibodies usually develop 1-3 weeks after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in the unvaccinated. So with this in mind vaccination is paramount in protecting your self against this Virus, taking the chance that you may survive an infection so that you can gain natural immunity is very very dangerous and isn't a necessary risk to take. 

The above information comes from the CDC dated 10 November 2021: Antibodies and COVID-19 | CDC

T-Cell Response to COVID 19:

""The accumulating evidence supports a role for T cells in COVID-19 and probably in the immunological memory that forms following recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection. Most, although not all, patients who are hospitalized seem to mount both CD8+ and CD4+ T cell responses, and evidence points to possible suboptimal, excessive or otherwise inappropriate T cell responses associated with severe disease. In fact, multiple distinct patterns of T cell response may exist in different patients, which suggests the possibility of distinct clinical approaches tailored to the particular immunotype of a specific patient. Much of the available data on T cell responses in patients with COVID-19 who are hospitalized is still available only in preprint form. This format has been essential for rapid dissemination of information in the setting of pandemic urgency. However, as these studies move through peer review, we should gain increasing confidence and clarity about the nature of T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 infection. More carefully defining distinct classes of T cell response types in COVID-19 and delineating how pre-existing conditions, co-morbidities, race, ‘immune health’ status and other variables influence T cell responses should reveal novel opportunities for treatment and prevention." 

T cell responses in patients with COVID-19 Peer Reviewed Journal from National Center for Biotechnology Information (NIH.Gov)  T cell responses in patients with COVID-19(nih.gov) 

 

""2. Natural immunity is believed to be superior to a spike protein vaccine."" 

Based upon the Peer Reviewed Journal Study that was conducted by National Center for Biotechnology Information (NIH.Gov)

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants with mutations in key antibody epitopes has raised concerns that antigenic evolution could erode adaptive immunity elicited by prior infection or vaccination. The susceptibility of immunity to viral evolution is shaped in part by the breadth of epitopes targeted by antibodies elicited by vaccination or natural infection. To investigate how human antibody responses to vaccines are influenced by viral mutations, we used deep mutational scanning to compare the specificity of polyclonal antibodies elicited by either two doses of the mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine or natural infection with SARS-CoV-2. The neutralizing activity of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more targeted to the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein compared to antibodies elicited by natural infection. However, within the RBD, binding of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more broadly distributed across epitopes compared to infection-elicited antibodies. This greater binding breadth means that single RBD mutations have less impact on neutralization by vaccine sera compared to convalescent sera. Therefore, antibody immunity acquired by natural infection or different modes of vaccination may have a differing susceptibility to erosion by SARS-CoV-2 evolution.

Peer reviewed journal from the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NIH.Gov)

Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection: Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection - PubMed (nih.gov)

Estimated US Infection- and Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence Based on Blood Donations, July 2020-May 2021: Estimated US Infection- and Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence Based on Blood Donations, July 2020-May 2021 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

 

3. Have the vaccine and catching corona is believed to give people the most immunity.

On this comment we agree completely, and I have nothing further to add.

 

""4.  So why aren't we giving out the vaccine, calling people in a month later and injecting them with the actual virus, while asking for blood from those with a t-cell response to inject t-cells into those it goes wrong in?""

To answer this question you must first understand why this isn't practical because of safety concerns of infecting people with a live version of the vaccine and below explains how live versions of vaccines were developed in the past very very effectively and very very safely.

The smallpox vaccine protects people from smallpox by helping their bodies develop immunity to smallpox. The vaccine is made from a virus called vaccinia, which is a poxvirus similar to smallpox, but less harmful. 

Above is why the most successful vaccine ever developed was not only able to stop infection, but to also entirely eradicate the Virus from the entire world, which is absolutely an amazing feat. With SARS-COV-2 there is no alternate strain of the Virus that is close enough to it to duplicate the same procedure used for Small Pox, even attempt the same procedure. But who knows with all the medical research currently being accomplished that could change next week or never change.

 I hope this helps answer your questions Cookie Monster!

Edited November 29, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[Ell]

9 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

1. Not all people have an anti-body response to coronavirus. Something like 10% of people have a t-cell response instead.

2. Natural immunity is believed to be superior to a spike protein vaccine.

3. Have the vaccine and catching corona is believed to give people the most immunity.

So why arent we giving out the vaccine, calling people in a month later and injecting them with the actual virus, while asking for blood from those with a t-cell response to inject t-cells into those it goes wrong in?

1. Antibodies are directed against antigens that are outside the cells.

The cytotoxic T-cell response is directed against cells that have been infected with a virus.

Accordingly, antibodies are of no use against viral antigens that are within cells.

 

4. Injecting cytotoxic T-cells into a body will cause those foreign battleships to attack and destroy all of the host's cells, the so-called graft versus host immune response.

[Saru]

Given that the OP's questions have been addressed and we want to avoid inviting unsavoury alternative medical advice, I'll close this one down.