German euthanasia clinics refusing unvaccinated customers

[WVK]

Irony has been declared many times in this pandemic but now, from Covid-riddled Germany comes the final proof: you can't kill yourself now unless you've been vaccinated. As European countries battle to limit the spread of the virus, Verein Sterbehilfe – the German Euthanasia Association – has issued a new directive, declaring it will now only help those who have been vaccinated or recovered from the disease. In a statement, the association said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/german-euthanasia-clinics-refusing-unvaccinated-customers

[psyche101]

I don't see how it's irony.

People assisting those ending their lives don't want to risk joining them or sending a loved one to.join them.

The anti vaxers are going to have to get used to the fact that a large portion of modern society just doesn't care for their opinions and aren't interested in accommodating community members who pose a threat to the community. 

Anti vaxers ask too much. Most choices come with consequences. This is no different.

[aztek]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:15 AM, WVK said:

Irony has been declared many times in this pandemic but now, from Covid-riddled Germany comes the final proof: you can't kill yourself now unless you've been vaccinated. As European countries battle to limit the spread of the virus, Verein Sterbehilfe – the German Euthanasia Association – has issued a new directive, declaring it will now only help those who have been vaccinated or recovered from the disease. In a statement, the association said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/german-euthanasia-clinics-refusing-unvaccinated-customers

so Germans have human euthanasia, and they challenge American's moral grounds, lol

btw, we have it too, it is called a gun, anyone can die on their own terms, vaccinated or not.

[+DieChecker]

Risk thier own lives? Like every nurse everywhere these days?

Its pure politics, not safety, thats involved here.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

it is called a gun, anyone can die on their own terms, vaccinated or not.

We also have the option of buying a dose of Fentanyl and over dosing - before the cops arrest us - problem solved and far less of a mess.  

In all seriousness, the states that have struggled with the lethal concoction for executions should simply stock a high-concentrate of Fentanyl and allow it to take the person out.  No suffering and no chance of survival.

[psyche101]

41 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Risk thier own lives? Like every nurse everywhere these days?

Its pure politics, not safety, thats involved here.

Politics? Disagree.

Exactly like nurses everywhere these days. The ones I know personally don't want to be in proximity to anti vaxers. They understand it's a situation that's hard maintain these days is all. Anti vaxers are a thorn in societies side. 

A lot of people embrace these laws. Again, the anti vaxers seem to think that it's silly because the people being discussed wish to die. Once again, it's a completely selfish train of thought that doesn't extend past the individual. Not one thought for anyone they might infect and take with them. I think one has to be a special kind of selfish ahole to be an anti vaxer. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by psyche101

[toast]

On 11/30/2021 at 4:15 PM, WVK said:

Irony has been declared many times in this pandemic but now, from Covid-riddled Germany comes the final proof: you can't kill yourself now unless you've been vaccinated. As European countries battle to limit the spread of the virus, Verein Sterbehilfe – the German Euthanasia Association – has issued a new directive, declaring it will now only help those who have been vaccinated or recovered from the disease. In a statement, the association said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/german-euthanasia-clinics-refusing-unvaccinated-customers

1.) We do not have "euthanasia clinics" here in Germany

2.) the directive "As of today, the 2G rule applies in our association, supplemented by situation-related measures, such as quick tests before encounters in closed rooms" is a regulation for entering the rooms of the Verein Sterbehilfe and it is the very same regulation which is valid for all other places of public like public buildings, supermarkets, markets, pharmacies, public transport vehicles etc etc.

3.) "The term '2G' meanwhile refers to a system which only allows free movement for leisure activities for the geimpft oder genese". Very bad translation because it should read "geimpft oder genesen" and not "genese". Genese (noun, feminine - in medicine), refers to the origin and development of a disease (pathogenesis). Genesen (recovered) is a strong verb.

4.) We do not use the word euthanasia in connection to Sterbehilfe because euthanasia was the term used by the nazi regime for the murder of "life not worth living" like mentally handicapped people (see Nazi Eugenics)

5.) The whole article is a pile of BS.

[Raptor Witness]

This is the strangest story in awhile here …..

[+DieChecker]

14 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Politics? Disagree.

Exactly like nurses everywhere these days. The ones I know personally don't want to be in proximity to anti vaxers. They understand it's a situation that's hard maintain these days is all. Anti vaxers are a thorn in societies side. 

Thats interesting, but my mother in law and sister in law are nurses, and though both are vaccinated, it wasnt by choice. The local nurses union was going to go on strike, not because they're anti-vax, but because they don't believe their medical decisions should be made by government. Its actually a very common opinion here in the US.

Quote

A lot of people embrace these laws. Again, the anti vaxers seem to think that it's silly because the people being discussed wish to die. Once again, it's a completely selfish train of thought that doesn't extend past the individual. Not one thought for anyone they might infect and take with them. I think one has to be a special kind of selfish ahole to be an anti vaxer.

Yes, because most nurses are probably around 40 years old and have a 0.01% chance of series illness.

And, YES , I know everyone knows someone who got really sick. But then surveys show we all know multiple thousands of people.

Question: If it was the Trump Administration enforcing vaccines, would you feel the same? What if they forced some kind of quackery? 

Edited December 2, 2021 by DieChecker

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

What if they forced some kind of quackery? 

We saw top Democrat "leadership" all over media saying they'd never take it (when it was Trump who'd get the credit).  Now that Germany has decided to force compliance in February, we'll have a real opportunity to see the effect on their numbers.  

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Thats interesting, but my mother in law and sister in law are nurses, and though both are vaccinated, it wasnt by choice. The local nurses union was going to go on strike, not because they're anti-vax, but because they don't believe their medical decisions should be made by government. Its actually a very common opinion here in the US.

I'm honestly sorry to hear that. Medical staff going political is an awful development. 

I know three nurses and two ladies who work in aged care and another who works for a volunteer group that provide colostomy bags to people. One of those nurses is against mandatory vaccination but thinks most people would get it anyway. I don't know a medical person that hasn't been vaccinated by choice. In fact out of all the people I personally know, only one is refusing the vaccination. 

What do they think about anti vaxers? With medical training they would know that the misinformation is rife and that not getting it is socially irresponsible. All have been vaccinated by choice.

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Yes, because most nurses are probably around 40 years old and have a 0.01% chance of series illness.

Even if it's  0.001% what right does one have to ask another to take even that much risk for a personal stance ? Basically a belief?

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

And, YES , I know everyone knows someone who got really sick. But then surveys show we all know multiple thousands of people.

How does this apply? 

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Question: If it was the Trump Administration enforcing vaccines, would you feel the same?

Of course. I don't consider vaccination measures here based on the PM or the government. I recognise that those measures are directed by the chief health officer and the government has to follow those guidelines in order to maintain the safest possible solution for the people. As long as any government member is acting upon medical advice then they are another link in the chain of society. I don't think enough people use their brain when it comes to seperating medicine from politics, and honestly, I reckon Trump wears a lot of that blame. That guy is a freaking menace. 

As long as the government is acting on medical advice, who governs means nothing. 

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

What if they forced some kind of quackery? 

Like injecting bleach say? 

Again, too many people make a medical issue political. That's what is being attempted here. Nobody should expect anyone rose to the a risk for their beliefs. It didn't matter what the risk level is. People don't have the right to allow their decisions to affect another. And that's the risk with stupid anti vaxers. 

Quackery should be obvious to all who are "doing it right" and following medical advice as opposed to political agendas. 

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, and then said:

We saw top Democrat "leadership" all over media saying they'd never take it (when it was Trump who'd get the credit).  Now that Germany has decided to force compliance in February, we'll have a real opportunity to see the effect on their numbers.  

Wouldn't take the vaccine or wouldn't take Trump's vaccine? 

Not the same thing. 

[+DieChecker]

17 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'm honestly sorry to hear that. Medical staff going political is an awful development. 

I know three nurses and two ladies who work in aged care and another who works for a volunteer group that provide colostomy bags to people. One of those nurses is against mandatory vaccination but thinks most people would get it anyway. I don't know a medical person that hasn't been vaccinated by choice. In fact out of all the people I personally know, only one is refusing the vaccination. 

I think its because most Americans believe the government exists to serve US, not that we exist to serve the government.

Being forced to do the right thing is like forcing people to convert to Christianity.

Quote

What do they think about anti vaxers? With medical training they would know that the misinformation is rife and that not getting it is socially irresponsible. All have been vaccinated by choice.

Socially irresponsible? Where did you get the idea most Americans are socially responsible?

Quote

Even if it's  0.001% what right does one have to ask another to take even that much risk for a personal stance ? Basically a belief?

Uhhh.... Maybe because it's their Job? Many, many jobs come with inherent risks, and this would be one of them.

Quote

How does this apply?

Because people say, "My great uncle Charlie died of Covid.", and make it sound like he was living with them, rather then three states away. 

Point is people know people who died, but few actually cared for those people BEFORE they died. Then all of a sudden they care.

Quote

Of course. I don't consider vaccination measures here based on the PM or the government. I recognise that those measures are directed by the chief health officer and the government has to follow those guidelines in order to maintain the safest possible solution for the people. As long as any government member is acting upon medical advice then they are another link in the chain of society. I don't think enough people use their brain when it comes to seperating medicine from politics, and honestly, I reckon Trump wears a lot of that blame. That guy is a freaking menace. 

As long as the government is acting on medical advice, who governs means nothing. 

Problem is when chief medical officer is completely sold out politically and is clearly bias and telling partial information.

We use naturopath doctors and all say its better to get the virus and recover, then take experimental medicine. Especially for those of a age and health where there's nearly zero risk.

So, that's legit medical advice. Do you disagree? If so, then do you see how others might disagree with what you're saying?

Quote

Like injecting bleach say? 

You know thats been debunked for years.

Quote

Again, too many people make a medical issue political. That's what is being attempted here. Nobody should expect anyone rose to the a risk for their beliefs. It didn't matter what the risk level is. People don't have the right to allow their decisions to affect another. And that's the risk with stupid anti vaxers. 

Quackery should be obvious to all who are "doing it right" and following medical advice as opposed to political agendas. 

In the USA we ABSOLUTELY have that right. Its on each person to associate with those who they think are safe, NOT for those who are not safe to isolate themselves.

If people don't like that others brought covid into the group, they need to SUE them to punish, and set an example. Theres no requirement of acting preemptively. 

[Setton]

6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

We use naturopath doctors and all say its better to get the virus and recover, then take experimental medicine. Especially for those of a age and health where there's nearly zero risk.

So, that's legit medical advice

Have you thought of taking up stand up comedy?

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Have you thought of taking up stand up comedy?

I do get your point.  

Just pointing out who's an expert varies tremendously from person to person.

[toast]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:31 AM, aztek said:

so Germans have human euthanasia

No, we dont and we even dont use that word. We call it Sterbehilfe (killing at the request of the victim), its forbidden in Germany and according to the law a criminal offense:

Quote

---

German Criminal Code

(Strafgesetzbuch – StGB)

Full citation:  Criminal Code in the version published on 13 November 1998 (Federal Law Gazette I, p. 3322), as last amended by Article 2 of the Act of 19 June 2019 (Federal Law Gazette I, p. 844)

Section 216
Killing upon request

(1) Whoever is induced to kill at the express and earnest request of the person killed incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term of between six months and five years.

(2) The attempt is punishable.

Link

 

Quote

and they challenge American's moral grounds, lol

Sometimes we have to, thats correct. And often we have to correct moronic claims of Americans regarding Germany, as in this case here.

[+DieChecker]

Looks like a German law for doctor assisted suicide was in the works. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-29/german-lawmakers-propose-new-law-on-assisted-suicide

Seems like it would have been only a matter of time, since the ruling coalition and the opposition basically only disagreed on how many doctors needed to sign off on the prescription.

Wonder where this law is now?

[psyche101]

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

I think its because most Americans believe the government exists to serve US, not that we exist to serve the government.

And that's completely stupid.

Too many Americans make a medical issue political only to their detriment. Anyone who's does that is a fool America or anywhere. The government must act on medical advice. The jerks who refuse to comply with social responsibility aren't taking this up with medical authorities. That's the only valid argument. 

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

Being forced to do the right thing is like forcing people to convert to Christianity.

Much easier than that. There's actually no good reason to believe in any god. There are plenty of very good reasons to be vaccinated. 

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

Socially irresponsible? Where did you get the idea most Americans are socially responsible?g

Did you not refer to medical people? 

They don't have an excuse. They are employed to be responsible. And in German euthanasia clinics, which don't even seem to actually exist.

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

Uhhh.... Maybe because it's their Job? Many, many jobs come with inherent risks, and this would be one of them.

No it's not one of them. I seriously doubt that any contract requires any person to put themselves at elevated risk. Such expectations come with changes in proceedure's and increased pay rates. 

What you're proposing here is unreasonable. A euthanasia clinic isn't required to handle covid Any more than a hairdresser. If people can refuse vaccination, then people can refuse to work with the unvaccinated. I know that would be my choice.

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

Because people say, "My great uncle Charlie died of Covid.", and make it sound like he was living with them, rather then three states away. 

Point is people know people who died, but few actually cared for those people BEFORE they died. Then all of a sudden they care.

That's got nothing to do with this situation! How do you know who cares and who doesn't? How do you know some don't deeply regret that loss of contact and it becomes a big deal for them? 

Mate, this is not your area to judge. 

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

Problem is when chief medical officer is completely sold out politically and is clearly bias and telling partial information.

There's more than one chief medical officer on the planet and they are in consensus. Americans politicise everything so for give me for taking your grievances with a grain of salt. Thing is that there is no shortage of professionals on the planet and professionals are in agreement on the best course of action. It's not hard to get straight information if one actually wants it. 

People sitting on a toilet googling coronavirus just don't make the grade. 

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

We use naturopath doctors and all say its better to get the virus and recover, then take experimental medicine. Especially for those of a age and health where there's nearly zero risk.

So, that's legit medical advice. Do you disagree? If so, then do you see how others might disagree with what you're saying?

As setton said, this is a joke right? 

Naturopath's aren't medical professionals. They are con artists. I wouldn't consider Uri Geller a professional either. He's about the same level of professional as a naturopath. 

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

You know thats been debunked for years.

And it's a medical issue not political.

See what I did there?

On 12/4/2021 at 3:25 AM, DieChecker said:

In the USA we ABSOLUTELY have that right. Its on each person to associate with those who they think are safe, NOT for those who are not safe to isolate themselves.

If people don't like that others brought covid into the group, they need to SUE them to punish, and set an example. Theres no requirement of acting preemptively. 

And if covid is fatal all the money in the he world doesn't matter. The USA might have that backwards, but this is supposed to be Germany, where these clinics don't even exist as Toast has illustrated. And let's face it. If you're a know risk and out others in danger for you wishes, then that person is a lowlife scumbag. 

I'd consider precautions self defence. 

[+and-then]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:48 AM, DieChecker said:

Looks like a German law for doctor assisted suicide was in the works. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-01-29/german-lawmakers-propose-new-law-on-assisted-suicide

Seems like it would have been only a matter of time, since the ruling coalition and the opposition basically only disagreed on how many doctors needed to sign off on the prescription.

Wonder where this law is now?

Just saw THIS:

https://timcast.com/news/assisted-suicide-pod-cleared-for-use-in-switzerland/

Ain't technology grand?  These guys are using 3D printing to put the lethal device into the hands of those desiring it, without having an intermediary who could be prosecuted for "helping them die"