U.S. Forces Wound Freed Italian Hostage in Iraq

[wunarmdscissor]

The soldiers had to do it. This is sad, though, really sad. 

why dont we just wait and see what the enquiry says.

Dont blame or exonerate anyone right now because for all we no something was wrong. And for all we know the soldiers had no choice .

All the flag waving patriotic defence and anti american bitter attcks are premature.

Why dont we all wait and see before commenting , NONE of us were there.

[bathory]

You can cry sarcasm all you want, what I said is true, you can claim what your complaining about of any source.

hey how about you read what i wrote after that, instead of ignoring it. Incidentally, i never said it wasn't true. My sarcasm was meant to mean that it was obvious.

Miss Sgrena, a reporter for the Communist daily Il Manifesto, charged yesterday that U.S. forces might have deliberately targeted her because Washington opposes Italy's policy of dealing with kidnappers.

Source: Washington Times

not to mention the papers title is The Manifest, its kinda like naming ones paper "The Daily Struggle" and then interviewing lots of neonazis:P

Are you even capable of making a mature post like any normal adult?

of course, but that would be boring now wouldn't it.

Although i would have hoped you'd have gotten the reference to your big old debate with Homer regarding Far Left in terms of European and American politics.

[Vallheru]

The soldiers had to do it. This is sad, though, really sad. 

why dont we just wait and see what the enquiry says.

Dont blame or exonerate anyone right now because for all we no something was wrong. And for all we know the soldiers had no choice .

All the flag waving patriotic defence and anti american bitter attcks are premature.

Why dont we all wait and see before commenting , NONE of us were there.

514617[/snapback]

I would normally agree to your stance. But please consider that people are dying daily while we wait. Me, you and most of the members of this site cannot go there and alter things physically. So, what we can contribute is our words in the hope that something can change.

As to anti-americanism, people have to understand that no-one hates an american tourist coming to party or spend their vacations to any country in the world.

Unfortunately though, most americans go around the world in khakis, carrying m-16s and follow a certain party-pattern....

Sad, but entirely true.

[wunarmdscissor]

If the war had been handled better from the start maybe just maybe we wouldnt have to be dicussing this .....

[Talon]

hey how about you read what i wrote after that, instead of ignoring it. Incidentally, i never said it wasn't true. My sarcasm was meant to mean that it was obvious.

I didn't ignore it, as I recall I commented on it.

not to mention the papers title is The Manifest, its kinda like naming ones paper "The Daily Struggle" and then interviewing lots of neonazis:P

The Manifest...so? Socialist papars can easily have that name too. And as for neo-Nazis, thats a right-wing ideology, not left. Bathory, we've had this discussion before. And since we're talking about sources, how come you have confidence enough that the Washington Times isn't bias?

of course, but that would be boring now wouldn't it.

Not boring, just mature.

[Talon]

Funeral for Italian shot in Iraq

Italy's president, prime minister and senior intelligence officials have attended the funeral of a secret agent shot dead by US forces in Iraq.

Nicola Calipari was killed by US troops as he escorted a released hostage, reporter Giuliana Sgrena, to freedom.

He was afforded a full state funeral that took place in Rome's Santa Maria degli Angeli church.

The incident has strengthened political opposition to the continuing military presence in Iraq.

Six in 10 Italians still think the war was wrong.

Hundreds of Italians lining the streets applauded as the cortege approached the packed church.

Mr Calipari's wife and teenage children, who sat at the front, were comforted by President Carlo Azeglio and his wife before the ceremony started.

Ms Sgrena, who is in hospital recovering from her shrapnel wound, said she was very sad not to be able to attend the ceremony.

'Last breath'

Mr Calipari has become a national hero and many of those who came to pay their respects paid tribute to his selfless bravery.

He was killed on Friday evening as he made the journey towards Baghdad airport with Ms Sgrena, who had been held captive for over a month.

He died as he shielded Ms Sgrena from shots fired towards their vehicle by US forces.

Doctors said he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.

US authorities have pledged to carry out thorough investigations.

But the death of Calipari, who had led the negotiations to free Sgrena has clearly dealt a heavy blow to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who is considered one of America's staunchest allies in Europe.

In several interviews to Italian and foreign media outlets, Ms Sgrena said she believes US troops might have deliberately opened fire on the car.

Ms Sgrena, who works for communist paper Il Manifesto and has always been an outspoken critic of the war, argues that US authorities strongly oppose the kind of negotiations conducted to free her.

"I cannot rule out that I was the real target," she told Rome-based daily La Repubblica.

"I felt I was the target of an ambush."

Mr Calipari was a highly experienced hostage negotiator and intelligence official, who had helped secure the release of two Italian aid workers taken captive in Iraq.

Accounts of what happened on the road to the airport in Baghdad differ but Ms Sgrena has said she cannot accept US troops accidentally fired on her car.

She told the BBC that Americans guarding Baghdad airport might not have been informed about her arrival, but their actions could not be excused.

The US military, who said troops fired on the speeding car after it failed to stop, has opened a full investigation.

In a separate development on Monday, the Bulgarian Defence Minister, Nikolai Svinarov, announced that a Bulgarian soldier killed last week in Iraq was the victim of "friendly fire".

"Someone started shooting at our patrol from the west, and in the same direction... there was a unit from the US army," Mr Svinarov told a press conference.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/worl...ope/4324445.stm

[Stellar]

Usual U.S. soldiers "slopiness". Can't understand why you people pay all these money to have incompetent soldiers around. They get killed by car bombers or shoot innocent people who are trying to escape...very efficient. By the way, why are you there in the first place? Anyhow, I don't want to get into a debate with some ignorant American who hasn't been out of his state....loss of time.

Christ, another armchair general

Sloppy would have been not shooting the car. Shooting the car was under the ROEs.

[bathory]

I didn't ignore it, as I recall I commented on it.

you are going to have to point it out for me then...

The Manifest...so? Socialist papars can easily have that name too.

nd since we're talking about sources, how come you have confidence enough that the Washington Times isn't bias?

it isn't portraying the paper in a negative light

Sgrena had been in Iraq several times, arriving most recently on Jan. 23. Il Manifesto, a communist paper, opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and fiercely criticized Berlusconi’s decision to deploy 3,000 troops in Iraq.

Source: Showmenews.com

neither is this (its an AP article)

And as for neo-Nazis, thats a right-wing ideology, not left. Bathory, we've had this discussion before

really? you mean all this time i thought hitler was a communist? THANKS FOR SHOWING ME THE LIGHT! Do i really have to explain why i referred to the Neo Nazis and The Daily Struggle? (we've had this discussion before? do you really just have to make stuff up? surely theres stuff i've actuall said you could use as ammunition instead of making it up?)

Not boring, just mature.

its a good thing i care little for anything about you beyond your 'arguments', otherwise i might just be heart broken.

Which reminds me, why are you even bothering? you aren't even discussing what i said in the context in which it was said. You seem to be terrible at doing that. I must sound like a broken record, constantly repeating my point simply because you are unable to grasp it

[dmgspycat]

Stellar, do you know what paper she was working for? It was a democratic one. She was exposing things about the US led invasion that the US Military didn't like.... I'm sure the soldiers there knew that if the car was speeding at them not obeying their orders.And as such, the driver should have known to obey the checkpoints. When you see a speeding car comming at you, you dont say "Well, theres a friendly comming in, that might be him speeding at us and not obeying orders... lets risk our lives and assume its him even though he's not following orders... "Im sorry, but I dont think that the car driving at them was labelled in big letters "This is a friendly, dont shoot"... and even if it was, there still would be what reason to *disobey* ROEs trust that thats not a carbomber?

You dont let the person keep comming towards you, you put him down.

514338[/snapback]

Stellar you keep telling us the same crap the US Army is telling us ..." that they were speeding up to the check-point". You guys didn't even listen to her story. Her freind was shot trying to protect her. The car wasn't speeding she said. Now maybe...just maybe, the soldiers weren't told but damn the army commanders for not telling them because they knew. And she didn't work for communists she is "democratic". I know how you right wingers try and lump us all together. Just read her story man and find out. Why would you believe the armys version? Maybe since you think she is a "commie" her story doesn't count. It sure is fishy how she is another "liberal" casualty,there have been many, not many rabid FOX news creeps seem to die over friendly fire. Or any major news network from US...just mostly Canadians and Red Cross people. Hmmm.

Edited March 7, 2005 by dmgspycat

[Michelle]

Asked if the car was going too fast when US opened fire, she said: "We weren't going particularly fast given that type of situation."

If I had been in that car I would have been getting the hell out of Dodge. So, does that mean they were going fast or they weren't.

[Stellar]

Stellar you keep telling us the same crap the US Army is telling us ..." that they were speeding up to the check-point".

Why is it crap? Because you'd rather believe that the US is an evil country which is out to kill friendlies?

You guys didn't even listen to her story. Her freind was shot trying to protect her. The car wasn't speeding she said.

What makes her story any more valid than the US troops'? Did the car stop?

Now maybe...just maybe, the soldiers weren't told but damn the army commanders for not telling them because they knew.

It honestly doesnt matter if the commanders didnt tell the soldiers that there was a friendly comming... its a good thing, infact, because then they wouldnt hesitate in following their ROEs. Had the driver obeyed orders, it wouldnt matter if the commander told them or not that there was a friendly on the way.

Why would you believe the armys version?

Because it makes more sense.

Maybe since you think she is a "commie" her story doesn't count.

I never once mentioned that she was a "commie". I really am not that shallow. You're the one who brings it up though...

It sure is fishy how she is another "liberal" casualty

There have been many casualties all together, not just "liberals"

[+joc]

Why would you believe the armys version?

Because the soldiers are risking their lives. Because they don't have a political agenda.

But I have a different question. Why was she released at all? Why wasn't she beheaded like so many others? I wonder.

As for me I will take a United States Soldiers word over a Commie Sympathizer any and every day of the week. They are all heros...wtf is she?

[dmgspycat]

Why is it crap? Because you'd rather believe that the US is an evil country which is out to kill friendlies?

dmgspycat: Friendlies aren't the ones telling a different story. Thats why they have a higher casualty rate.

Stellar:What makes her story any more valid than the US troops'? Did the car stop?

dmgspycat: Because troops will cover for higher ups...like Abu Gharaib Prison.

Stellar:It honestly doesnt matter if the commanders didnt tell the soldiers that there was a friendly comming... its a good thing, infact, because then they wouldnt hesitate in following their ROEs. Had the driver obeyed orders, it wouldnt matter if the commander told them or not that there was a friendly on the way.

dmgspycat: It wouldn't matter?

dmgspycat: I have watched this Iraq war from day one. It makes no sense right after 9-11 to have attacked a country under false premise which has been proven the case. Maybe if we had found the so called WMD's that the US pre-empted this thing for in the first place then it might later have been justified. I have noticed how the military and the White House have showed little tolerance for journalists who don't tout the party line. You aught to listen to Ashliegh Banfield sometime...why do you think she is not working there anymore? So no , I do not agree with you that an equal number of "party line" journalists have died too. Some liberal journalists who were lucky enough to make it out alive were reporting heinous human rights abuses by our military(led by CIA in Afghanistan). There was a massacre of 3000 Taliban supporters rounded up...put in boxcars and shot on the spot. It was filmed, made its way to the press and then quashed. The Taliban didn't do 9-11. But you can be sure that UNOCALS oil pipeline is going through. You believe the military...I'll believe the free-spirited journalist.

[Vallheru]

Usual U.S. soldiers "slopiness". Can't understand why you people pay all these money to have incompetent soldiers around. They get killed by car bombers or shoot innocent people who are trying to escape...very efficient. By the way, why are you there in the first place? Anyhow, I don't want to get into a debate with some ignorant American who hasn't been out of his state....loss of time.

Christ, another armchair general

Sloppy would have been not shooting the car. Shooting the car was under the ROEs.

514672[/snapback]

I do not refer to "rules of engagement". You should better refer to them as "rules of slaughter".

Actually, I prefer to be an armchair general. I don't have the blood of innocents on my hands.

Before you go into a patriotic frenzy, I would like to remind you how the people of Europe welcomed the U.S. soldiers when they freed Europe. I doubt that a single soldier was killed by a freed nation, for any reason. And the U.S. sent around 2 million troops, not 150 thousand. Make the comparison between that and Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and you can make your own conclusion.

I am not in this forum to argue with you with big and hollow words while people from all sides die. I am just stating facts as they are.

[Seraphina]

Mr Calipari was a highly experienced hostage negotiator and intelligence official, who had helped secure the release of two Italian aid workers taken captive in Iraq.

I must admit, I do find it odd that someone who quite obviously knew what they were doing would get themselves into such a situation...you'd honestly think, had the troops issued all the warnings they claim they did, that he'd have told the driver to stop the car

I agree with Wun though....until more information comes out, there's really not much point speculating.

[Whom_God_Loves]

If they meant to kill her she'd be dead, She entered a War Zone there's a 50% chance something could happen, this is a stupid story.

[Guest Lottie]

If they meant to kill her she'd be dead, She entered a War Zone there's a 50% chance something could happen, this is a stupid story.

515979[/snapback]

She was a hostage who ahd been released and was being escorted back by the agent that was killed whilst protecting and covering her from the gunfire.

Nicola Calipari was killed by US troops as he escorted a released hostage, reporter Giuliana Sgrena, to freedom.

Yes this is stupid, stupid that somewhere, somehow there was a severe lack of communicatuion that has led to American soldiers killing this man who works for the Italian goverment. The Italians being one of Americas allies. Yes very very messed up. What a tragedy.

[Whom_God_Loves]

If they meant to kill her she'd be dead, She entered a War Zone there's a 50% chance something could happen, this is a stupid story.

515979[/snapback]

She was a hostage who ahd been released and was being escorted back by the agent that was killed whilst protecting and covering her from the gunfire.

Nicola Calipari was killed by US troops as he escorted a released hostage, reporter Giuliana Sgrena, to freedom.

Yes this is stupid, stupid that somewhere, somehow there was a severe lack of communicatuion that has led to American soldiers killing this man who works for the Italian goverment. The Italians being one of Americas allies. Yes very very messed up. What a tragedy.

515983[/snapback]

Thats all the more reason for her to shut up and be happy she is still alive

[Seraphina]

The attitude of some people here amazes me...

This woman has spent the last month as a hostage in Iraq - when she is finally released thanks to the dedication of an Italian intelligence officer, she is then shot at one her way back home, has to witness her benefactor murdered right in front of her, is shot, and then had mindless slander thrown at her by people.

She is actually the one person in this matter who is most certainly blameless...the fault lies either in the intelligence agent who didn't slow down for the check point (although, again, I find it unlikely that any experienced intelligence officer would simply ignore all the warnings the troops claimed to be giving) or it lies with the troops who opened fire without warning (assuming they did).

"Shut up and be happy she's alive" indeed...

[Guest Lottie]

Thats all the more reason for her to shut up and be happy she is still alive

Unbelievable. The complete lack of compassion and maturity of this comment is really sad.

Edited March 8, 2005 by Lottie

[Guest Lottie]

Just a quick question WGL. If this had been an American hostage with an American Intelligence officer who was then shot at by Allies would you still have the same attitude?

[Whom_God_Loves]

[Whom_God_Loves]

Just a quick question WGL. If this had been an American hostage with an American Intelligence officer who was then shot at by Allies would you still have the same attitude?

516000[/snapback]

There have been alot more American Hostages than anyone else and the ones that do make it out alive, you don't hear them complaining too much, they're happy to be alive.

[Whom_God_Loves]

I see yer a Mod now Lottie congrats

[Guest Lottie]

I see yer a Mod now Lottie congrats

516005[/snapback]

Umm no I am not a mod just a debates organiser.

There have been alot more American Hostages than anyone else and the ones that do make it out alive, you don't hear them complaining too much, they're happy to be alive.

Yeah and they have not been fired at by allies. You have not answered my question.