Dr Robert Malone interview on Joe Rogan podcast

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

But getting it back to covid, you have millions that are vaccinated and masked, yet this population is getting covid just as much as any other group. 

Supported by data or hopeful thinking?  There seem to be quite a few studies done at different times, in different countries and with different sized groups that indicate the opposite is true.   Hospitalizations and deaths are higher for unvaccinated folks.

[Golden Duck]

26 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Supported by data or hopeful thinking?  There seem to be quite a few studies done at different times, in different countries and with different sized groups that indicate the opposite is true.   Hospitalizations and deaths are higher for unvaccinated folks.

I see the numbers in Queensland revealing R-naught approaching 2.  This happening during the hiliday period in a sub-tropical, humid summer exacerbated by a la Nina.

My guess is social distancing is not being practiced, but the vaccines are helping keep the numbers down.

If Omicron is so prevalent shouldn't it be showing at Nextstrain?

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Golden Duck

[+and-then]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:04 PM, RavenHawk said:

Or do we need the state to impose restrictions before we can breathe? 

I think this is PRECISELY where these Covid tyrants are headed.  I've yet to get a straight answer to the simple question, but that's an answer as well, innit?  The fact that they steer around it tells me they KNOW just how wrong it is but for the sake of winning a tribal game for their "team" they'd be willing to give away the rights of others, until it hurts them.  I've yet to see a response from anyone here that clearly states they wouldn't see those unwilling to comply, jailed or worse, IF the government decided to go there "for the greater good".   

[+and-then]

On 1/7/2022 at 5:42 PM, Katniss said:

No because it's worse than trying to force children to take medication. It hardly ever works with adults.

I appreciate your willingness to laugh at those who disagree yet not be so angry and fearful as to try to force compliance.  IMO, there are too many today who are becoming THAT convinced that they have the right to do whatever it takes to force adults to obey.  I think it's a dangerous trend, far more destructive than SARS-COV-2.  

[psyche101]

26 minutes ago, and then said:

I think this is PRECISELY where these Covid tyrants are headed.  I've yet to get a straight answer to the simple question, but that's an answer as well, innit?  The fact that they steer around it tells me they KNOW just how wrong it is but for the sake of winning a tribal game for their "team" they'd be willing to give away the rights of others, until it hurts them.  I've yet to see a response from anyone here that clearly states they wouldn't see those unwilling to comply, jailed or worse, IF the government decided to go there "for the greater good".   

 

[Tatetopa]

49 minutes ago, and then said:

I've yet to see a response from anyone here that clearly states they wouldn't see those unwilling to comply, jailed or worse, IF the government decided to go there "for the greater good". 

I am clearly stating that I oppose Jail or worse for people who do not comply. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

45 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

 

Lmao a "crisis actor", what the f!ck

[RavenHawk]

20 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I am clearly stating that I oppose Jail or worse for people who do not comply. 

Well then, what do you want to do with them?  If your view does not flow along the government’s then what are you prepared to do?

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I think this is PRECISELY where these Covid tyrants are headed.  I've yet to get a straight answer to the simple question, but that's an answer as well, innit?  The fact that they steer around it tells me they KNOW just how wrong it is but for the sake of winning a tribal game for their "team" they'd be willing to give away the rights of others, until it hurts them.  I've yet to see a response from anyone here that clearly states they wouldn't see those unwilling to comply, jailed or worse, IF the government decided to go there "for the greater good".   

I think that in the act of being human, they know it is wrong, but in a moral sense, they are just momentarily stunned (electronically) and when the flow is restored, they move ahead with their agenda.  They are physically affected but intellectually, they are unphased.

 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Lmao a "crisis actor", what the f!ck

He wasn't a crisis actor. He actually had covid. 

Anti vaxers decided he was a crisis actor and beat him up.

They attacked a sick man falsely for their agenda. 

When I read andthen posts, it reminds me a heck of a lot of people like those who attacked this poor fellow. I could see such insane rants culminating in this fashion. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

He wasn't a crisis actor. He actually had covid. 

Anti vaxers decided he was a crisis actor and beat him up.

They attacked a sick man falsely for their agenda. 

When I read andthen posts, it reminds me a heck of a lot of people like those who attacked this poor fellow. I could see such insane rants culminating in this fashion. 

Oh, I am aware that he wasn't actually an actor. I was more or less laughing at just how ****ing stupid people are to beat somebody up like that, on the basis of misinformation.

[Katniss]

6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I do.  I’ve seen it as it’s happening over the last fifty years or more, just didn’t have the words to express it.  When you see this, you can’t unsee it.  Other people have described this and now I not only have my experiences and knowledge but documentation to share it.  One has to start someplace.  I need to learn how to express myself on this and learn how to deal with the negative responses, as most of them are failed attempts at ignoring the facts.  I’m always writing stuff to get my thoughts in order.  If nobody listens to me here, what chance is there of anybody listening to me elsewhere?  But I can add my voice to the warning and when those that didn’t listen before will be in for a rude awakening.  That will be my sad satisfaction.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about. Everyday I see people protesting with signs in front of public buildings repeating nearly the same things as you do. They don't waste much time posting about these things everywhere on the net, like you do. So you would probably do more good out in the real world and get much more attention doing as they do. No I think it's mostly a case of wanting to complain and rant, or just be argumentative on the net. Maybe you think you will get the better of somebody here? Seems like you think you already have after reading some of your previous posts in this thread.

2 hours ago, and then said:

I appreciate your willingness to laugh at those who disagree yet not be so angry and fearful as to try to force compliance.  IMO, there are too many today who are becoming THAT convinced that they have the right to do whatever it takes to force adults to obey.  I think it's a dangerous trend, far more destructive than SARS-COV-2.  

Don't take my laugh emoji's to heart, And Then.  I actually post those for another reason. <-- But this smile emoji is for you though. But in good way. Okay?

And I know you are convinced, but so far, really I've only seen one member here who thinks that way as you describe and I don't agree with him. No way would I ever force someone to take their medication, vaccine, whatever.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Katniss

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Well then, what do you want to do with them? 

Follow the same precautions most of us are following or were before any vaccines.  Be free, be responsible. A true warrior would sacrifice himself for his people, I'm not expecting that, just be a little courteous and  tolerate the inconvenience of a mask  while mixing it up in public. 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

16 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

You keep trying to belittle me, primarily because you have no counter.

I've provided plenty of counter that you don't address, and counter is hardly necessary any way since it's not like you're backing anything you claim up.  I'm not 'belittling' you, you said you were concerned about facts and the fact is that you don't have any relevant expertise in the disciplines necessary to understand the scientific opinions you have.  Furthermore you don't even think you need them, I guess people go to school all those years to get medical and professional science degrees for fun.

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

12 hours ago, and then said:

I've yet to get a straight answer to the simple question, but that's an answer as well, innit?

What simple question?  What you quoted from Dr Ravenhawk, "do we need the state to impose restrictions before we can breathe? ".  When did you even ask this question?  I don't think you actually did because it's a pretty stupid one.

[Myles]

9 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Follow the same precautions most of us are following or were before any vaccines.  Be free, be responsible. A true warrior would sacrifice himself for his people, I'm not expecting that, just be a little courteous and  tolerate the inconvenience of a mask  while mixing it up in public. 

 

What should be the punishment for AOC?   Partying with a large group of unmasked people while herself not wearing a mask.   Now she has covid and is part of the spreading people.   

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

What should be the punishment for AOC?   Partying with a large group of unmasked people while herself not wearing a mask.   Now she has covid and is part of the spreading people. 

She should bear the same punishment as all of the rest of us, the same way we should punish everybody that attends a Trump rally..... Nothing.  You want everybody to be free to decline vaccine and wearing masks because it is "their body" and now you want to punish AOC?  What do we tell people with covid to do?  Isolate. That is what keeps it from spreading.  Under current guidelines, I guess that is 5 days isolation, then back to work.  If that is fair, then we should isolate MTG for 5 days every time she shows up in Congress without a mask.  Better than a fine.

[Tatetopa]

In all seriousness, I did listen to the podcast.  Here is the thing.  The same doctor with the same theory could have appeared on  Stephen Colbert and said mass formative psychosis is the reason  people disbelieve in  vaccines and still believe without any evidence that Trump won the election.  It works both ways.

[Myles]

52 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

She should bear the same punishment as all of the rest of us, the same way we should punish everybody that attends a Trump rally..... Nothing.  You want everybody to be free to decline vaccine and wearing masks because it is "their body" and now you want to punish AOC?  What do we tell people with covid to do?  Isolate. That is what keeps it from spreading.  Under current guidelines, I guess that is 5 days isolation, then back to work.  If that is fair, then we should isolate MTG for 5 days every time she shows up in Congress without a mask.  Better than a fine.

My question was mostly tongue in cheek because AOC has been a big proponent of mask mandates.  When someone takes a strong stand on something, they should follow their own guidance.  

[RavenHawk]

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You did a great job of explaining this beautiful phenomenon.  Its cool.

Yes, it’s cool.  It is factual, true, and simple.  The simpler something is, the better teacher it is.  Science should be simple.  It doesn’t have to be some complex dissertation.

 

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The only question that matters to anybody is do masks and vaccines work? 

I believe that this experiment proves that masks do not work.  They work some but not to the hype they have been advertised.  They work well with spittle but that is just a fraction of what is expelled.  As far as the vaccines go, the question should be how many do they kill vs how many they save?  Of the initial reports I’ve seen, that ratio isn’t that good.  More are killed than saved.  This is from VAERS which is notoriously under countered.  How can you count the number saved anyway?  Almost twice as many have died in 2021 (when vaccines became available) than have died in 2020.  Cases and deaths are increasing and it’s getting more prevalent in the vaccinated crowd.  Soon it should at least be 50-50.  So, the vaccines may be saving lives but more lives are being lost to covid and the vaccines.  So what is the overall effectiveness?  It seems that it could be negative efficacy.

 

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We have had several hundred thousand hospitalizations and deaths after vaccines were made available. 

We’ve had 60m cases and 840k deaths.  That’s a 1.4% death rate.  How many deaths are of those that have died in the hospital?  People come into the hospital for a number of reasons (not just covid).  They are tested and if they test positive, they are counted as a covid case and hospitalization.  How many die of covid and how many die with covid?  Most I suspect were asymptomatic coming into the hospital.  But then what are the average stays in the hospital?  When are they put on Remdesivir?  Of those that go on ventilators, how many die?  I suspect that if you are asymptomatic, if you have any comorbidities, they are probably not severe and that hospitalization really has no quantitative meaning. 

I recently heard a good example.  If someone takes vitamin C and they don’t get sick, that is reason to continue to take vitamin C.  But if they are taking vitamin C and gets sick every other day or whatever, why continue to take it?  If the vaccines work, then why don’t they work?  How many shots are they going to deem necessary and how often?  To answer that, you’ll need to follow the money.

 

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That is a big enough group and control population to factor out other important variables like  age, sex, race, preexisting conditions,  and treatment methods. and time.  No doubt those all have something to say about how individuals fare.   It does no good to study all deaths at once because circumstances have changed over time.  The first deaths were in nursing homes, that has changed.

Yes, circumstances have changed, but the data has not.  Just what is being collected and what isn’t.  At first it was only thought that age was a factor, but now we know more.  Age and obesity are the two major factors, but the more comorbidities one has, the higher the chance one will die.  Of those with the more serious comorbidities, how many of those have lived if they are fully vaxed?  We need better stats on recovery.  Only 18% of the population has been recorded as a case.  That would seem to imply that the other 4/5^ths are unknown and are probably asymptomatic (or mild symptoms).

 

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We have learned better treatment methods than we went into the pandemic with as well. 

That, I don’t know about.  The only official treatment that hospitals dispense is Remdesivir which is known to cause renal failure.  That’s the same protocol they’ve used from the beginning.  They are restricting monoclonal anti bodies and they have vilified hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin (many pharmacies and doctors are prevented from prescribing them and they always appear on lists of essential drugs).  They ignore vitamins D, C and zinc and don’t even consider natural immunity or diet.  Actual treatment is scarce.

 

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But the population is still large enough to find 100,000 or so deaths within a few month span for comparison.

The most recent trend is that vaccinated are getting covid as often as the unvaccinated.  They are constantly reporting on fully vaxed celebrities and lawmakers that are getting covid.  What isn’t being reported is that more and more of the unvaccinated are acquiring natural immunity.  But that doesn’t seem to be complete protection from Omicron, as it does with all the prior mutations.  But everyone is going to get omicron despite vaccination status.  The good thing is that for the vast majority, it is mild – just another cold.  The need for vaccines has come to an end.  Another thing to look for is how the lipids in these vaccines are attacking the immune system.  This degradation allows other disease besides covid to enter the body.  It takes the spike protein from 15 to 18 months to clear the body after the last shot.  The individual will be vulnerable for that long before their own immune system builds back if it ever does.

 

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The data collected can follow the guidelines used for all drug testing.  There is a pretty standard protocol for that.  It is all in the open and public.   Publishing  conclusions with secret data doesn't cut it.

Well, all the data needs to be reexamined.  Our covid death numbers are over counted.  Those that died within 14 days of their last shot and are tested positive for covid, are considered a covid death.  Have you noticed that the number of unexpected deaths are on the increase?  How much do you want to bet that the majority of these had a shot recently?  These stats aren’t being collected.  They need to develop a tactful survey sent out to the families of those that have passed to collect that data.

 

[RavenHawk]

20 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Supported by data or hopeful thinking?  There seem to be quite a few studies done at different times, in different countries and with different sized groups that indicate the opposite is true.   Hospitalizations and deaths are higher for unvaccinated folks.

Well, this would be current times.  As I mentioned earlier, we are seeing any number of fully vaxed celebrities, sports figures, and lawmakers coming down with covid.  In this state, they just released a report showing that 30% cases are from vaccinated people.  And it is increasing at about a rate of 1% every week or two.  They never tried to hide it, but before this point, they never officially posted it.  It seems that some are breaking away from the narrative.  They are beginning to realize the falsehood.

 

[RavenHawk]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:23 PM, psyche101 said:

Then you have extremely weird taste in fashion and probably wouldn't be allowed out in public due to exposure

That's dead set weird. Fish net pants. Gross idea.

Not my taste, I’m just using your analogy.

[Tatetopa]

17 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That, I don’t know about. 

Some of it quite simple.  People with severe lung congestion do better on their bellies than on their backs.  That was not the traditional method. A small improvement to comfort and survival rate.

[Tatetopa]

10 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Well, this would be current times.  As I mentioned earlier, we are seeing any number of fully vaxed celebrities, sports figures, and lawmakers coming down with covid.  In this state, they just released a report showing that 30% cases are from vaccinated people.  And it is increasing at about a rate of 1% every week or two.  They never tried to hide it, but before this point, they never officially posted it.  It seems that some are breaking away from the narrative.  They are beginning to realize the falsehood.

Here is where science might come to your rescue and why time is an important factor in all of these studies.

We know covid is transmissible.  We also know vaccines are 90% effective at best, not as much after 6 months and not for all groups like the elderly.  Right away you can see you need to be careful with your data and compare like groups, apples to apples as it were.

At Day 0 nobody was vaccinated.  100% of people that got covid, got hospitalized, and died were unvaccinated.

As soon as vaccinations with a 90% effective rate, start to be distributed, we could predict  there would be some number of break through cases  based on effectiveness X number vaccinated. 

At day 300 maybe 60% of were vaccinated as a national average, but that varies between states and locations.  By this time, you would expect quite a few breakthrough cases out of that 100 million vaccinated.  Plenty of data to break down between incidence, severity and fatality between vaccinated and unvaccinated.  But you have to keep that data separated from the data on Day 0 when 100% of fatalities were unvaccinated.

Before a significant number of people had been vaccinated, this data did not exist.  What does your number mean?  In New Mexico, 2/3 of the people, about 67% have been vaccinated.   If 67% of the people account for only 30% of the cases  that tells you that the remaining 33% of the people, the unvaccinated portion account for 70% of the new covid infections.  

If you figure that out in a rough way using1000 people and 100 cases, infection rate for 670 vaccinated people is 30cases/670people =.045.  For unvaccinated people, 70cases/330people=.21, just over 4 times as high as for unvaccinated.

That would tell me vaccinations work not that they are a falsehood.

 

[RavenHawk]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:36 AM, psyche101 said:

Where do you get such nonsense from? What does he threaten? I consider myself more intelligent to be honest.

That’s what he threatens.  You’ve invested so much into the narrative and now, it is beginning to fall apart.  So much for your honesty.

 

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I honestly don't know why people think he knows anything.

He carries himself well in that.  Even if his questions are prepared for him, he understands them.  It is clear that he is well read on the subjects.

 

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Shock jocks are dime a dozen. He's just an attention seeker and people like you fall for his BS. Doesn't say a lot for your intellectual ability to be perfectly honest.

Well, this dime a dozen has the most popular podcast.  It must be more than tabloid news.  That interview was right on the mark.  It would have fitted well with the Covid Revealed series.  And the shock jock that you fall for is Fauci.  That says a lot about you.

 

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It's the same one who falsely claimed to be the inventor of mRNA technology when in reality he is one small cog in very large workings. He's a whiny biatch who is thriving on anti vax idiocy.

And yet he still holds 9 patents.  Yes, there were probably a team of doctors working together or separately, but one is usually identified as the top dog.  The theory of Evolution was developed by Darwin and Alfred Wallace, but Darwin is the one that gets the credit.  Columbus is credited at discovering the New World, but it is now known that several other cultures had been here before Columbus.  It was Columbus that realized the “Columbian Exchange”.  There are many examples in history of co-invention or Multiple Discovery Theory.  You almost act like you are jealous of him??  Because he stands up against Fauci.  You may have a low opinion of Malone but doctors like Malone, McCullough, Atlas, etc. have a low opinion of Fauci.  They are more believable and Fauci is a proven liar.

 

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A little perspective please. 

Precisely!