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Pope Francis says choosing pets over kids is selfish


Eldorado

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21 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Glad to see you’re still above ground Mr. Walker.  

So far so good.  :) Real life is taking more of my time. I  don't get on here as much as I used to. 

Caring for my wife has reached the level where social securities has recommended I apply for a carer's  payment, which would add about $150 to our fortnightly pension.

Also very busy running free community  book and dvd exchanges  across about 3000 square miles.   Last week I received about 500 books and 200 dvds and  restocked 4 of the exchanges.

Started off just as a Facebook site involving a swap fridge outside our house  but,  since local media took an interest, it's grown like topsy . It's good because, apart from  one round trip every fortnight or so,  (of  about 100 miles)  to surrounding towns,  I can do it all from home, as time permits. 

Had our booster shots on Monday,  and I seem to be a bit tired this week, but that could also be late night reading sessions :) 

Hope you are also well.   

 

 

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Not sure what you saw as humorous in my post 98, Sherapy.

It's a pretty serious business, given the number of people starving to death in poorer countries , and the epidemic of diseases caused by over eating in the developed countries.  

quote

A 2018 study published in the journal Science concluded animal agriculture is responsible for many global environmental problems, and avoiding consumption of animal products would help more than buying sustainable meat and dairy products. Some consumers have made the switch. U.S. retail sales of plant-based foods rose 11.4% last year, for a total market value of $5 billion and dollar sales jumped 29% during the past two years.

https://www.fooddive.com/news/the-meat-industry-is-unsustainable-report-finds/574896/

quote

As we’ve seen, eating meat is bad for the environment at the scale and intensity we collectively are. By damaging ecosystems and releasing greenhouse gases, the global meat industry is contributing to climate change. What’s more, with the world’s population predicted to continue growing, we will need to feed more and more people. The impact of meat on the environment is not currently sustainable. 

By reducing the amount of meat we eat and striving for a more sustainable diet, we can each help to reduce the damage to the environment. And, while there are pros and cons of eating meat, more people are choosing to cut it out entirely. As new technology and legislation are introduced, we can all make a difference in protecting the planet with our dietary choices.

https://www.futurelearn.com/info/blog/eating-meat-bad-for-environment#:~:text=Meat consumption is responsible for,The destruction of forest ecosystems.

Edited by Mr Walker
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5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Ah but I use solar power and batteries

Hi Walker

So because you think it's free why not waste it rather than contribute to the grid and earn money. Just kidding :P

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

The earth simply cannot sustain the present consumption of meat proteins 

Not really sure that it changes much other than higher fuel consumption, more processing and packaging centers and likely not much change in the use of plastics or styrofoam related industries all which affect emissions not to mention insecticides, pesticides and GM foods.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

in the short term we either all reduce meat consumption or recognise the inequality between  those who can afford to and those who cannot; 

So now it is about money and being unfair, if that were the case Lambroghini should be the every man's car, the new Volkswagon of the modern age just because it is unfair that they costs more money to all car owners.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually, life style choices, and how we use those resources (eg for children or pets) is the topic of the thread.

I love my steaks and yet have never thought of them as a child or a pet, same with my veggies so it is off topic.:tu:

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7 hours ago, Guyver said:

BTW, with respect to the thread, Pope Francis can kiss my left butt cheek. I honestly don’t give a flying flip about what he thinks because every Christmas he wears that outfit….you know the one….it looks like something from the 12th century well fed.  Anyway, I’d rather hear what the Dali Lama says….number one.

And number two….I think we could do with more pets and less people in this crazy ass world as Insee it.  FWIW.

Oh, yeah. The topic.

 

meme.jpg.c7861420c7d765793238094ee992a402.jpg

 

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10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not sure what you saw as humorous in my post 98, Sherapy.

It's a pretty serious business, given the number of people starving to death in poorer countries , and the epidemic of diseases caused by over eating in the developed countries.  

quote

A 2018 study published in the journal Science concluded animal agriculture is responsible for many global environmental problems, and avoiding consumption of animal products would help more than buying sustainable meat and dairy products. Some consumers have made the switch. U.S. retail sales of plant-based foods rose 11.4% last year, for a total market value of $5 billion and dollar sales jumped 29% during the past two years.

https://www.fooddive.com/news/the-meat-industry-is-unsustainable-report-finds/574896/

quote

As we’ve seen, eating meat is bad for the environment at the scale and intensity we collectively are. By damaging ecosystems and releasing greenhouse gases, the global meat industry is contributing to climate change. What’s more, with the world’s population predicted to continue growing, we will need to feed more and more people. The impact of meat on the environment is not currently sustainable. 

By reducing the amount of meat we eat and striving for a more sustainable diet, we can each help to reduce the damage to the environment. And, while there are pros and cons of eating meat, more people are choosing to cut it out entirely. As new technology and legislation are introduced, we can all make a difference in protecting the planet with our dietary choices.

https://www.futurelearn.com/info/blog/eating-meat-bad-for-environment#:~:text=Meat consumption is responsible for,The destruction of forest ecosystems.

MW, there is no reason to catastrophize food  to meet diet goals or otherwise, in fact, it most likely lends to a lot of yo-yo dieting, with the weight never coming off or staying off, or a vicious cycle of finger pointing and righteous based empty diatribes. Eating meat isn’t evil, this is coming from a person who has been a vegan/vegetarian/omnivore over her lifespan. :P  

 

An offer of an alternate approach, look at this in another way one could adopt a sense of gratitude for the plants, animals, planet and “the people” who get the food from farm to table in the first place, just this shift in mindset can go along way in one making wiser sustainable choices. More often than not appreciating the food and its sources go along way because what one values they care for or about and it can be seen in the choices one makes this is where one’s power lies. One can use their own life as the canvas this is where the benefits to one’s health will serve for the best. Everything begins with us and our choices. 

 

All the best.
 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

MW, there is no reason to catastrophize food  to meet diet goals or otherwise, in fact, it most likely lends to a lot of yo-yo dieting, with the weight never coming off or staying off, or a vicious cycle of finger pointing and righteous based empty diatribes. 

 

An offer of an alternate approach, look at this in another way one could adopt a sense of gratitude for the plants, animals, planet and “the people” who get the food from farm to table in the first place, just this shift in mindset can go along way in one making wiser sustainable choices. Use your own life as the canvas this is where the benefits to your health will serve you the best. 

 

All the best.
 

 

 

If one eats more, one weighs more. If one eats less, one will weigh less. There is no such thing as unlosable weight--but there is such a thing as an insatiable appetite one is loath to lose! Simple logic, which often escapes simple minds.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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26 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

If one eats more, one weighs more. If one eats less, one will weigh less. There is no such thing as unlosable weight--but there is such a thing as an insatiable appetite one is loath to lose! Simple logic, which often escapes simple minds.

Indeed trying to control the planet is futile, what a waste of energy and time but getting control of oneself and what goes from hand to the mouth putting thought into this ~now, this is a great place to start, and achievable. :P
 

Any philosophy on any path emphasizes moderation, I would throw in a sense of gratitude and self compassion help too because one tends to take the time to care for themselves and this will involve wiser more sustainable “choices” by default. 

Edited by Sherapy
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This from the man in charge of an organisation that has systematically covered up the abuse of thousands of children.

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On 2/3/2022 at 3:49 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

So because you think it's free why not waste it rather than contribute to the grid and earn money. Just kidding :P

Not really sure that it changes much other than higher fuel consumption, more processing and packaging centers and likely not much change in the use of plastics or styrofoam related industries all which affect emissions not to mention insecticides, pesticides and GM foods.

So now it is about money and being unfair, if that were the case Lambroghini should be the every man's car, the new Volkswagon of the modern age just because it is unfair that they costs more money to all car owners.

I love my steaks and yet have never thought of them as a child or a pet, same with my veggies so it is off topic.:tu:

We do get some payment for power sent back into the grid when the battery is full . It  is not a lot (about 6 cents /kwh )

meat protein takes many times more land area and water ti produce than vegetable protein 

It is not realy about transport packaging etc but the resources needed to produce a pound of beef 

Its about equity and fairness more than money Why should I be able to eat  steak every night and throw kilos of food out every week ,   when other humans are starving to death

To take the car comparison perhaps no one should drive a Lamborghini  so that everyone might at least be able to afford a car or at least an  electric bike 

No it is directly on the  topic which is about human selfishness and the use /distribution of the earth's resources.

My wife loves animals and so a considerable part of our cost of living is providing food and care for them  I would rather spend it on helping other humans but marriage is about love and compromise My wife likes animals better than human beings   for understandable reasons.

  I see  the propensity for harm in some humans but  still place human life above other animal life ,  despite animals being more loving, loyal, non judgemental,  etc., than a lot of humans 

 

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On 2/4/2022 at 12:39 AM, Sherapy said:

MW, there is no reason to catastrophize food  to meet diet goals or otherwise, in fact, it most likely lends to a lot of yo-yo dieting, with the weight never coming off or staying off, or a vicious cycle of finger pointing and righteous based empty diatribes. Eating meat isn’t evil, this is coming from a person who has been a vegan/vegetarian/omnivore over her lifespan. :P  

 

An offer of an alternate approach, look at this in another way one could adopt a sense of gratitude for the plants, animals, planet and “the people” who get the food from farm to table in the first place, just this shift in mindset can go along way in one making wiser sustainable choices. More often than not appreciating the food and its sources go along way because what one values they care for or about and it can be seen in the choices one makes this is where one’s power lies. One can use their own life as the canvas this is where the benefits to one’s health will serve for the best. Everything begins with us and our choices. 

 

All the best.
 

 

 

Not sure where you got the idea i was catastrophising food 

I was simply pointing out some harsh global realities which westerners often try to avoid thinking about 

eating meat isn't evil  But it is not sustainable , it reflects global inequalities,  and it harms the environment 

Ideally we should all eat a small proportion of meat in our overall diet.

   of course we appreciate all those involved in food production .

We lived for 30 years in the literal middle of a farm and had our own small flock of sheep and a few cattle  Half my relatives and many of my friends and community are farmers .My sister and her husband run a multi million dollar oyster farming production. Fortunately, practices by young farmers are becoming both more humane and more sustainable , and consumers are insisting on ethical treatment of animas , and often, on local production of their food  

 

quote

It takes over 20 times more water to produce 1kg of beef compared to rice, grains, beans, fruit and vegetables in Australia.  It takes 800 litres of water to produce one litre of cow's milk, four times as much as it takes to make one litre of soy milk.  Vegan households use less than a third of the water of the average Australian household.  Agriculture is the number-one user of water, accounting for 65% of total water consumed in Australia and 70% worldwide.  Animal agriculture is responsible for up to one third of all fresh water consumption in the world today.  43% of irrigation water in Australia is used by the animal agriculture industry.  Only 24% of irrigation water in Australia is used for fruit, vegetables and grains for human consumption.  The dairy industry uses 19% of irrigated water in Australia and is responsible for 35 per cent of water consumption in the Murray-Darling basin, Australia's most important agricultural region.  The world will run out of fresh water by 2050 if we continue to consume animal products at the current rate, according to the Stockholm International Water Institute.  

https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/committees/SCEI/Animal_rights_activism/transcripts/How_much_water_is_used_in_the_production_of_plant.pdf

quote

Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture, with most of this used to raise livestock for dairy and meat. Livestock are fed from two sources – lands on which the animals graze and land on which feeding crops, such as soy and cereals, are grown. How much would our agricultural land use decline if the world adopted a plant-based diet?

Research suggests that if everyone shifted to a plant-based diet we would reduce global land use for agriculture by 75%. This large reduction of agricultural land use would be possible thanks to a reduction in land used for grazing and a smaller need for land to grow crops. The research also shows that cutting out beef and dairy (by substituting chicken, eggs, fish or plant-based food) has a much larger impact than eliminating chicken or fish.

The expansion of land for agriculture is the leading driver of deforestation and biodiversity loss.

Half of the world’s ice- and desert-free land is used for agriculture. Most of this is for raising livestock – the land requirements of meat and dairy production are equivalent to an area the size of the Americas, spanning all the way from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.

The land use of livestock is so large because it takes around 100 times as much land to produce a kilocalorie of beef or lamb versus plant-based alternatives. This is shown in the chart.1  The same is also true for protein – it takes almost 100 times as much land to produce a gram of protein from beef or lamb, versus peas or tofu. 

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not sure where you got the idea i was catastrophising food 

I was simply pointing out some harsh global realities which westerners often try to avoid thinking about 

eating meat isn't evil  But it is not sustainable , it reflects global inequalities,  and it harms the environment 

Ideally we should all eat a small proportion of meat in our overall diet.

   of course we appreciate all those involved in food production .

We lived for 30 years in the literal middle of a farm and had our own small flock of sheep and a few cattle  Half my relatives and many of my friends and community are farmers .My sister and her husband run a multi million dollar oyster farming production. Fortunately, practices by young farmers are becoming both more humane and more sustainable , and consumers are insisting on ethical treatment of animas , and often, on local production of their food  

 

quote

It takes over 20 times more water to produce 1kg of beef compared to rice, grains, beans, fruit and vegetables in Australia.  It takes 800 litres of water to produce one litre of cow's milk, four times as much as it takes to make one litre of soy milk.  Vegan households use less than a third of the water of the average Australian household.  Agriculture is the number-one user of water, accounting for 65% of total water consumed in Australia and 70% worldwide.  Animal agriculture is responsible for up to one third of all fresh water consumption in the world today.  43% of irrigation water in Australia is used by the animal agriculture industry.  Only 24% of irrigation water in Australia is used for fruit, vegetables and grains for human consumption.  The dairy industry uses 19% of irrigated water in Australia and is responsible for 35 per cent of water consumption in the Murray-Darling basin, Australia's most important agricultural region.  The world will run out of fresh water by 2050 if we continue to consume animal products at the current rate, according to the Stockholm International Water Institute.  

https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/committees/SCEI/Animal_rights_activism/transcripts/How_much_water_is_used_in_the_production_of_plant.pdf

quote

Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture, with most of this used to raise livestock for dairy and meat. Livestock are fed from two sources – lands on which the animals graze and land on which feeding crops, such as soy and cereals, are grown. How much would our agricultural land use decline if the world adopted a plant-based diet?

Research suggests that if everyone shifted to a plant-based diet we would reduce global land use for agriculture by 75%. This large reduction of agricultural land use would be possible thanks to a reduction in land used for grazing and a smaller need for land to grow crops. The research also shows that cutting out beef and dairy (by substituting chicken, eggs, fish or plant-based food) has a much larger impact than eliminating chicken or fish.

The expansion of land for agriculture is the leading driver of deforestation and biodiversity loss.

Half of the world’s ice- and desert-free land is used for agriculture. Most of this is for raising livestock – the land requirements of meat and dairy production are equivalent to an area the size of the Americas, spanning all the way from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.

The land use of livestock is so large because it takes around 100 times as much land to produce a kilocalorie of beef or lamb versus plant-based alternatives. This is shown in the chart.1  The same is also true for protein – it takes almost 100 times as much land to produce a gram of protein from beef or lamb, versus peas or tofu. 

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

 

 

“It is more important to prevent suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests.”

Buddha

 

In other words, these arguments are little more then a way to segway into finger pointing, arrogant righteousness, and a narcissistic obsession to derail otherwise good threads for attention that then lends to “suffering” and takes from the other posters. :P


Moving on. 
 

‘’All the best. 

 


 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

We do get some payment for power sent back into the grid when the battery is full . It  is not a lot (about 6 cents /kwh )

meat protein takes many times more land area and water ti produce than vegetable protein 

It is not realy about transport packaging etc but the resources needed to produce a pound of beef 

Its about equity and fairness more than money Why should I be able to eat  steak every night and throw kilos of food out every week ,   when other humans are starving to death

To take the car comparison perhaps no one should drive a Lamborghini  so that everyone might at least be able to afford a car or at least an  electric bike 

No it is directly on the  topic which is about human selfishness and the use /distribution of the earth's resources.

My wife loves animals and so a considerable part of our cost of living is providing food and care for them  I would rather spend it on helping other humans but marriage is about love and compromise My wife likes animals better than human beings   for understandable reasons.

  I see  the propensity for harm in some humans but  still place human life above other animal life ,  despite animals being more loving, loyal, non judgemental,  etc., than a lot of humans 

 

Compromise is more often than not about “me” versus a what would best serve us as at current as a “we” personally in the context of marriage compromise as you describe sounds like a recipe for resentment more than a win win for both. 

A suggestion: Compromise applied in a way that is more about deriving a sense of happiness by making another happy at the expense of ones own needs is more about not exerting the effort or energy it requires to get creative and find alternatives to meet one’s needs that are a win win for both. 
 

For ex: differences provide an opportunity to explore new ways to grow as a person and a couple, one way often overlooked is nurturing friendship with one’s own partner and life’s experiences bring many ways to grow and try on different approaches and see your partner thru fresh eyes. Perhaps your wife after her hip replacement surgery could find other ways to fulfill her need to be with animals by volunteering in some capacity. Maybe you could join her and vice versa If you have a passion to get people fed, volunteer at a food bank (even once a year), or get involved in meals on wheels that works best for your schedule or use “the books in a refrigerator for food sharing” etc. etc. Maybe if all goes well after her surgery and recovery you and her  could volunteer at an animal shelter occasionally or find an online frame to be involved with animals, so you can open yourself to new perspectives. 

 

Seeing animals as less than or better than humans is meaningless in reality, try and find a way to see the value in both and have fun coming up with ways to enjoy and include them both. Maybe you and your wife could find cost effective sustainable ways to feed dogs, maybe you two could make your own dog food.
 

https://www.rspcasa.org.au/feed-dogs-for-less-10-tips/


Just my two cents. 


 


 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Compromise is more often than not about “me” versus a what would best serve us as at current as a “we” personally in the context of marriage compromise often leads to resentment more than a win win for both. 

Compromise applied in a way that is more about deriving a sense of happiness by making another happy at the expense of ones own needs is more about not exerting the effort or energy it requires to get creative and find alternatives to meet one’s needs that are a win win for both. 
 

It sounds like an opportunity to explore new ways to grow as a person and a couple, one way often overlooked is nurturing a true friendship with one’s own partner and life’s experiences bring many ways to grow and try on different approaches. Perhaps your wife after her hip replacement surgery could find other ways to fulfill her need to be with animals by volunteering in some capacity. If you have a passion to get people fed, volunteer at a food bank even once a year, or get involved in meals on wheels that works for you or use “the books in a refrigerator for food sharing” etc. etc. Maybe if all goes well after her surgery and recovery she could volunteer at an animal shelter, or find an online frame to be involved with animals that is budget friendly. 

 

Seeing animals as less than or better than humans is meaningless in reality, try and find a way to have value in both and have fun coming up with ways to enjoy them both. Maybe you and your wife could find cost effective sustainable ways to feed dogs, maybe you two could make your own dog food. 
 

 


Just my two cents. 


 


 

 

 

 

Adjusting for the current inflation spike, that will be seven cents, please. :D

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7 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

“It is more important to prevent suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests.”

Buddha

 

In other words, these arguments are little more then a way to segway into finger pointing, arrogant righteousness, and a narcissistic obsession to derail otherwise good threads for attention that then lends to “suffering” and takes from the other posters. :P


Moving on. 
 

‘’All the best. 

 


 

 

Ah but if you have believed anything about what I have written over the last16 years on UM you know that I LIVE by these principles My wife and ihave fed sheltered and saved the lives of thousands of peole We have educated some , provided fresh food and water for villages   and the means for them to sustain themselves (such as seed funding for  mini businesses for women in India and green houses for growing fresh vegetables in Mongolia )

However its not enough for only me to live by them , if the world is to be saved for future generations . We ALL have to make an effort , and that includes both educating others, and setting an example .  It is easy for me to "live right"  and feel self satisfied , but that is a delusion as far as saving the planet . Unless others live in a similar way it won't make any difference 

Fortunately things are changing 

For example my  state not only often gets ail its energy  from sun and wind but exports the excess to other states who still use fossil fuels.

For example more "wealthy" people are choosing to eat less , or no, meat 

If you  (generic) feel bad or guilty about anything I write , that points to a self awareness of your  guilt .  If you (generic)  have no guilt , perhaps you don't care about others or the future as much as your own comfort and privileged lifestyle. I doubt that many people are ignorant of the inequalities of life on this planet  so that is rarely an excuse .  

People who lead excessively materialistic lives NEED to be made to feel a bit guilty, because their  lifestyles MUST change 

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6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Compromise is more often than not about “me” versus a what would best serve us as at current as a “we” personally in the context of marriage compromise as you describe sounds like a recipe for resentment more than a win win for both. 

A suggestion: Compromise applied in a way that is more about deriving a sense of happiness by making another happy at the expense of ones own needs is more about not exerting the effort or energy it requires to get creative and find alternatives to meet one’s needs that are a win win for both. 
 

For ex: differences provide an opportunity to explore new ways to grow as a person and a couple, one way often overlooked is nurturing friendship with one’s own partner and life’s experiences bring many ways to grow and try on different approaches and see your partner thru fresh eyes. Perhaps your wife after her hip replacement surgery could find other ways to fulfill her need to be with animals by volunteering in some capacity. Maybe you could join her and vice versa If you have a passion to get people fed, volunteer at a food bank (even once a year), or get involved in meals on wheels that works best for your schedule or use “the books in a refrigerator for food sharing” etc. etc. Maybe if all goes well after her surgery and recovery you and her  could volunteer at an animal shelter occasionally or find an online frame to be involved with animals, so you can open yourself to new perspectives. 

 

Seeing animals as less than or better than humans is meaningless in reality, try and find a way to see the value in both and have fun coming up with ways to enjoy and include them both. Maybe you and your wife could find cost effective sustainable ways to feed dogs, maybe you two could make your own dog food.
 

https://www.rspcasa.org.au/feed-dogs-for-less-10-tips/


Just my two cents. 


 


 

 

 

 

That you should see compromise as more about "me" speaks to your own views . Perhaps you have experienced resentment in a marriage If you have then i would agree that   this was not a successful compromise   

Compromise is basically give and take ie building a life for two people which is sustainable,  meaningful , and fun for both 

If one partner dominates then the other will be unhappy and the relationship will suffer and perhaps end 

Sometimes two people are so different in basic values that a compromise cannot be reached , but usually a happy medium can be found  Love is a wonderful lubricant in  this process.

Sometimes you do need to make a person happy by  "sacrificing your own needs"  Only a very selfish person would refuse to do this 

Men ( Particularly but n  ot exclusively)  desiring to "satisfy their own needs" at the expense of others has done great harm to women and to the world 

If done in love   sacrificing your own needs  need not cause resentment  Only if it is an ongoing   and unfair balance may it do so . 

The bible speaks about being equally yoked  and this is part of that  ie both pulling together to achieve the same end.  It doesn't mean you dont have individual freedoms but ha t you dont pull against each other.    

I appreciate your advice is given out of concern but why would my wife want to volunteer ? She prefers her own company  She has chosen to live away from  others since she left work in 1975 (except where she has been a carer for young and elderly in our home (She has (with my encouragement and assistance) established a lifestyle which she really enjoys and loves 

If she could walk without pain, the first thing she would  do  would be to get me to take her and the  the dogs to a long lonely beach, and walk along it for hours  . We both currently have the amount of social contact we need /require .  That's an example of compromise ,  because I require about 10 times more than she does 

Arguably all values are meaningless until or if the y are  translated into practice Ie my wife could live very happily  with very limited human contact  but would be miserable without animal companionship . It is a bit of a concern how she will cope if  she ever has to go into a place where she cant have an animal friend .  However she would be happy living in a house with no human contact as long as she had animals around her.

That's just her. There  is nothing wrong with  her, or with that attitude.  The compromise for me is accepting this,  and not trying to change her, while finding ways to meet my own social needs.  

Three large dogs and a cat cost a bit to feed , however it is the other care which is expensive  including vet care and flea / worm treatment  On the other hand my wife costs me almost nothing for clothing, cosmetics, or entertainment. (about 60 dollars a month for online books a t $1 to $2   a  book (she reads a couple of these every day )   and a few dollars for chocolate and jubes :) 

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4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Ah but if you have believed anything about what I have written over the last16 years on UM you know that I LIVE by these principles My wife and ihave fed sheltered and saved the lives of thousands of peole We have educated some , provided fresh food and water for villages   and the means for them to sustain themselves (such as seed funding for  mini businesses for women in India and green houses for growing fresh vegetables in Mongolia )

However its not enough for only me to live by them , if the world is to be saved for future generations . We ALL have to make an effort , and that includes both educating others, and setting an example .  It is easy for me to "live right"  and feel self satisfied , but that is a delusion as far as saving the planet . Unless others live in a similar way it won't make any difference 

Fortunately things are changing 

For example my  state not only often gets ail its energy  from sun and wind but exports the excess to other states who still use fossil fuels.

For example more "wealthy" people are choosing to eat less , or no, meat 

If you  (generic) feel bad or guilty about anything I write , that points to a self awareness of your  guilt .  If you (generic)  have no guilt , perhaps you don't care about others or the future as much as your own comfort and privileged lifestyle. I doubt that many people are ignorant of the inequalities of life on this planet  so that is rarely an excuse .  

People who lead excessively materialistic lives NEED to be made to feel a bit guilty, because their  lifestyles MUST change 

MW your ranting, hun.

‘A suggestion: take a few deep breaths and let the ranting, anger and desire for revenge go, it isn’t good for your health.

All the best to you. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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25 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

MW your ranting, hun.

‘A suggestion: take a few deep breaths and let the ranting, anger and desire for revenge go, it isn’t good for your health.

All the best to you. 

 

He has lost his composure that’s for certain, obviously his mindfulness knowledge doesn’t work for him at all!:D 

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14 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

That you should see compromise as more about "me" speaks to your own views . Perhaps you have experienced resentment in a marriage If you have then i would agree that   this was not a successful compromise   

Compromise is basically give and take ie building a life for two people which is sustainable,  meaningful , and fun for both 

If one partner dominates then the other will be unhappy and the relationship will suffer and perhaps end 

Sometimes two people are so different in basic values that a compromise cannot be reached , but usually a happy medium can be found  Love is a wonderful lubricant in  this process.

Sometimes you do need to make a person happy by  "sacrificing your own needs"  Only a very selfish person would refuse to do this 

Men ( Particularly but n  ot exclusively)  desiring to "satisfy their own needs" at the expense of others has done great harm to women and to the world 

If done in love   sacrificing your own needs  need not cause resentment  Only if it is an ongoing   and unfair balance may it do so . 

The bible speaks about being equally yoked  and this is part of that  ie both pulling together to achieve the same end.  It doesn't mean you dont have individual freedoms but ha t you dont pull against each other.    

I appreciate your advice is given out of concern but why would my wife want to volunteer ? She prefers her own company  She has chosen to live away from  others since she left work in 1975 (except where she has been a carer for young and elderly in our home (She has (with my encouragement and assistance) established a lifestyle which she really enjoys and loves 

If she could walk without pain, the first thing she would  do  would be to get me to take her and the  the dogs to a long lonely beach, and walk along it for hours  . We both currently have the amount of social contact we need /require .  That's an example of compromise ,  because I require about 10 times more than she does 

Arguably all values are meaningless until or if the y are  translated into practice Ie my wife could live very happily  with very limited human contact  but would be miserable without animal companionship . It is a bit of a concern how she will cope if  she ever has to go into a place where she cant have an animal friend .  However she would be happy living in a house with no human contact as long as she had animals around her.

That's just her. There  is nothing wrong with  her, or with that attitude.  The compromise for me is accepting this,  and not trying to change her, while finding ways to meet my own social needs.  

Three large dogs and a cat cost a bit to feed , however it is the other care which is expensive  including vet care and flea / worm treatment  On the other hand my wife costs me almost nothing for clothing, cosmetics, or entertainment. (about 60 dollars a month for online books a t $1 to $2   a  book (she reads a couple of these every day )   and a few dollars for chocolate and jubes :) 

 

Whatever works for you is what matters, all the best to your wife, I hope her days of walking the beach become a reality for her. 


 

 

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Pffft... Walking on the Beach is for losers... 

Quote

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~

 

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11 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

He has lost his composure that’s for certain, obviously his mindfulness knowledge doesn’t work for him at all!:D 

Because most of his claims are on paper only. :P

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Kindness doesn't cost a penny--but it's worth is without measure. So, be mindful to be generous with it. Let us lavish it on even the ones with whom we disagree. Don't follow, lead by example.

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4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Because most of his claims are on paper only. :P

I must agree with you based upon my own conversations with him, he is certainly a Straw Man!:yes:

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2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Kindness doesn't cost a penny--but it's worth is without measure. So, be mindful to be generous with it. Let us lavish it on even the ones with whom we disagree. Don't follow, lead by example.

That’s a very beautiful verse, but in the process of being kind and generous you must also be honest and open to do otherwise is dishonest and does not serve the intended purpose. Buddhas teaching give many examples of this, if you would like I can post some examples of sutras where Buddha has made it clear that while being kind and generous you must also be honest. 

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

That’s a very beautiful verse, but in the process of being kind and generous you must also be honest and open to do otherwise is dishonest and does not serve the intended purpose. Buddhas teaching give many examples of this, if you would like I can post some examples of sutras where Buddha has made it clear that while being kind and generous you must also be honest. 

Honesty does not have to be without kindness, especially here, where interactions with one another are optional. I don't think it was the Buddha's intention that once he stopped speaking, all learning was fulfilled. I've known too many people who enjoy hurting others with "the truth" to place it on a pedestal and worship it. Some things, truthful though they may be, are better left unsaid.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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On 2/4/2022 at 11:34 PM, Mr Walker said:

We do get some payment for power sent back into the grid when the battery is full . It  is not a lot (about 6 cents /kwh )

meat protein takes many times more land area and water ti produce than vegetable protein 

It is not realy about transport packaging etc but the resources needed to produce a pound of beef 

Its about equity and fairness more than money Why should I be able to eat  steak every night and throw kilos of food out every week ,   when other humans are starving to death

To take the car comparison perhaps no one should drive a Lamborghini  so that everyone might at least be able to afford a car or at least an  electric bike 

No it is directly on the  topic which is about human selfishness and the use /distribution of the earth's resources.

My wife loves animals and so a considerable part of our cost of living is providing food and care for them  I would rather spend it on helping other humans but marriage is about love and compromise My wife likes animals better than human beings   for understandable reasons.

  I see  the propensity for harm in some humans but  still place human life above other animal life ,  despite animals being more loving, loyal, non judgemental,  etc., than a lot of humans 

 

Hi Walker

The weather is nice and have been bbqing burgers and steaks, if you wish to start a" god we eat meat" thread then by all means do so. Have you hugged your sheep today?

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