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Pope Francis says choosing pets over kids is selfish


Eldorado

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19 hours ago, Sherapy said:

MW your ranting, hun.

‘A suggestion: take a few deep breaths and let the ranting, anger and desire for revenge go, it isn’t good for your health.

All the best to you. 

 

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad and a bit scary

Basically you put aside your own responsibility  and duty to humanity and accuse me of becoming emotional in pointing them out  :) 

This is not emotion. It is pure simple fact 

You are the one with biological children and potential grand children , who is always going on about the special bond you have with them  Thus you should be more ware and active in such matters. (Just my two cents worth, of course. )

Where on earth did you get any idea of revenge. This is about equality, justice, duty and responsibility  You must have  a very different mind to me. 

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19 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

He has lost his composure that’s for certain, obviously his mindfulness knowledge doesn’t work for him at all!:D 

lol  That was a non emotional, factual, but value driven  argument 

I care about people, about individuals , and the human race. 

 I see a responsibility and duty by every person to others m especially where you are comparatively wealthy privileged and empowered 

It comes form being raised a humanist but also from  what i have learned from  history geography politics and sociology  

Life as we know it WILL end relatively soon if we don't change the way we live .  It's physically unsustainable ; we will either run out of critical resources or will go to war over them  

There are signs of progress and improvement, but still a long way to go, to overcome  the materialism , individualism, and sense of entitlement of many.

Mindfulness doesn't preclude awareness and thoughtfulness.  Indeed it should enhance them  A mindful person will usually  be more caring and compassionate than a non mindful one 

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8 hours ago, SHaYap said:

Pffft... Walking on the Beach is for losers... 

~

 

Tell that to my wife :)  She would walk for hours and tens of kilometres  with only myself or her dogs for company, although sometimes she had a girlfriend with her  I did a bit of  walking (5 ks or so)  and helped carry back heavy objects   but  preferred staying in the car reading  if she was going to be walking for  6 hours or so.  I'd then drive around a coastal track and pick her up 10 or so miles from where she left 

We have a huge collection of shells which she found, which might help fund our old age, given that some are worth hundreds of dollars. 

We had a treadmill which she used in the winter, but it's nothing like walking along a beach 10 miles long,  with the sun on your back , the sea breeze in your face , and the sights and sounds of the environment all around you , without  another soul in sight.   If  you   get hot you can just skinny dip  in the ocean. 

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8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Because most of his claims are on paper only. :P

Of course the claims are on paper . The evidences are also ,including tax records  and receipts from charities 

The problem is your inability/unwillingness to believe, not my truthfulness. Maybe that goes to your own attitude to materialism and what you believe you need to own /possess, to feel secure and comfortable  .

   By world standards we were very wealthy people (and even by Australian standards quite well off ) We didn't need more than a proportion of our income so we gave it away to others sometimes for food or clean water,  but more often to help people  increase their independence and empowerment to care for themselves   

I've also collected for charities like red cross  and world vision over the years. 

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On 1/8/2022 at 8:40 PM, Eldorado said:

"Today ... we see a form of selfishness," he told the audience. "We see that some people do not want to have a child.

This is also pretty rich, considering that anyone who joins the church needs to become celibate.  Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to confront its own hypocrisy on this issue?

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Honesty does not have to be without kindness, especially here, where interactions with one another are optional. I don't think it was the Buddha's intention that once he stopped speaking, all learning was fulfilled. I've known too many people who enjoy hurting others with "the truth" to place it on a pedestal and worship it. Some things, truthful though they may be, are better left unsaid.

Honestly should be with kindness, it’s all about the way the honesty is presented. No one said that once the Buddha stopped speaking all learning was fulfilled except by you. Buddhas teaching is based upon an honest approach and his lessons were not designed to harm anyone. However, the Buddhist teaching as written ( Sutras ) also are not designed to Coddle those who discuss them and leave the message unsaid in the context of Buddhas teaching, this would prevent learning what is being taught!

I do understand you point and it is valid, but if someone chooses to join a discussion on the subject and they present opinions, or views as facts that is also not productive and it must be corrected. 

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31 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

The weather is nice and have been bbqing burgers and steaks, if you wish to start a" god we eat meat" thread then by all means do so. Have you hugged your sheep today?

We had steak Dianne on Friday night, which I prepared myself, (the steak cost $24)  then i made a casserole from the left overs on Saturday night. Sunday night we had home made  chicken and pasta 

But thats a bit unusual  It was the first red meat we had eaten this year and by far the most expensive meal I've prepared for years.

As i said , it's about moderation , not abstinence 

The last of our pet sheep died in 2005  in the bushfire which destroyed our home  I was never a sheep hugger . I dont even really like animals as much as I like humans,   but i do respect them and recognise my duty to look after them as best i can . That includes preventing unnecessary  cruelty to animals both domestic and  in nature . 

One of the few charities I can afford to support now , runs a tiger sanctuary in  the lower Himalayas .   

 

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27 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

lol  That was a non emotional, factual, but value driven  argument 

I care about people, about individuals , and the human race. 

 I see a responsibility and duty by every person to others m especially where you are comparatively wealthy privileged and empowered 

It comes form being raised a humanist but also from  what i have learned from  history geography politics and sociology  

Life as we know it WILL end relatively soon if we don't change the way we live .  It's physically unsustainable ; we will either run out of critical resources or will go to war over them  

There are signs of progress and improvement, but still a long way to go, to overcome  the materialism , individualism, and sense of entitlement of many.

Mindfulness doesn't preclude awareness and thoughtfulness.  Indeed it should enhance them  A mindful person will usually  be more caring and compassionate than a non mindful one 

Please explain the concept of mindfulness you follow, you have already stated it is not the Buddhist concept in a previous post. So please explain your personal concept in your own words!

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35 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Tell that to my wife

Tell that to your 'personal' god entity and make her not feel pain like you so that she can walk ten miles a day again just so you can go read your ten more books a day so you can further 'prove' how not narcissistic you are. 

Good luck 

~

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36 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Please explain the concept of mindfulness you follow, you have already stated it is not the Buddhist concept in a previous post. So please explain your personal concept in your own words!

basically my understanding  is based on modern psychological principles and practices 

I will use their definitions because the y almost match my own One exception is that, for me, mindfulness encompasses past present and future.

In becoming mindful,  we  remember the past and use it to create a belter future 

quote

Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention to the present. This state is described as observing one’s thoughts and feelings without judging them as good or bad.

To live mindfully is to live in the moment and reawaken oneself to the present, rather than dwelling on the past or anticipating the future. To be mindful is to observe and label thoughts, feelings, sensations in the body in an objective manner. Mindfulness can therefore be a tool to avoid self-criticism and judgment while identifying and managing difficult emotions.

Mindfulness is rooted in Buddhist and Hindu teachings. Buddhism includes a journey toward enlightenment, and the concept of “sati,”—which encompasses attention, awareness, and being present—is considered the first step toward enlightenment. The term was roughly translated from the ancient language Pali into the term “mindfulness.”

What is the purpose of mindfulness?

The goal of mindfulness is to cultivate perspective on one’s consciousness and identity that can bring greater peace mentally and relationally. Mindfulness may also be used in mindfulness-based therapies, to address stress, anxiety, or pain, and simply to become more relaxed.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/mindfulness

For me it is the basic principle of logical/ rational thinking, as opposed to using emotions  to make decisions , or decide your mood and responses  . eg 

quotes

 

1. We suffer more in imagination and thoughts (story mode) than in reality itself (mindfulness mode). For example, thinking about upcoming challenges is almost always worse than dealing with them in the present.

2. The mindfulness mode we cultivate in meditation directly strengthens our capacity for concentration; while temporary by nature, as concentration grows, it is inherently pleasurable; this pleasure can spread into seemingly mundane, quotidian tasks,

 

4. By practicing “mindfulness of emotion,” you can learn to watch anger (or any feeling) instead of automatically getting caught in it. In doing so, you can experience that it is virtually impossible to stay angry for a long time without following the trains of thought anger would aimlessly take him on, and thickening the fabricated story that was justifying it. The half-life of an emotion, by itself, without being fueled by thought, is roughly 90 seconds.

5. You can witness that negative feelings are intrinsically transitory when observing them curiously, independent of the narrative underlying them.

6. You can access a sense of well-being from merely being alive and sensing your innate, ever-present aliveness, which you cultivate through mindfulness practice.

7. Just like sleep and hunger, the mind is malleable, it can relearn to settle into stillness naturally. Stillness is its natural state (think of the moment you were conceived in your mother's womb), just like the stillness 30 feet under the ocean, below the surface level agitation. Ironically when we welcome distraction during meditation, it happens less. Practicing brings you closer to this stillness.

Mindfulness, thus, may be the wrong word. When we hear the prefix mind, it links to verbal thinking in our minds, which I've just expounded, isn't mindfulness. It's a poor translation from the original word in the Pali language. “Heartfulness," "presence,” or “systematic attentional training” may be better.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mindfulness-insights/202111/the-paradox-mindfulness

 

If you want my own thoughts, I'd throw in a couple of specific ones 

The quotes above are basically high school level  understanding.   You can go on to university level understanding 

ie Mindfulness and stillness of mind don't require meditation The y are basic neural patterns which  you can create and access at will There is a switch in your brain which you can learn to turn on and off and achieve these states immediately Then it  is just a matter of skill, will, and discipline of mind. 

Likewise for emotions. You don't have to experience an emotion for 90 seconds  If you  can control it after that long by mindfulness, then  you can control it altogether instantly  Once you  understand the pattern of neural activity which is an emotion , and the triggers which generate that neural pattern, then you can prevent it occuring or call on it  in an instant or enhance or diminish   it at will. No one HAS to feel anger , hate,  fear etc.   They nay choose not to , by being mindful Likewise we can all learn to feel joy love compassion etc., on demand. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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28 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Honestly should be with kindness, it’s all about the way the honesty is presented. No one said that once the Buddha stopped speaking all learning was fulfilled except by you. Buddhas teaching is based upon an honest approach and his lessons were not designed to harm anyone. However, the Buddhist teaching as written ( Sutras ) also are not designed to Coddle those who discuss them and leave the message unsaid in the context of Buddhas teaching, this would prevent learning what is being taught!

I do understand you point and it is valid, but if someone chooses to join a discussion on the subject and they present opinions, or views as facts that is also not productive and it must be corrected. 

No, it doesn't. That's ego talking, not the Buddha. It's an error we are all guilty of, more often than not counter-productive. There are behaviors of others impossible to correct and all we do is give them a stage to perform them on before the masses. This show has been going on for over a dozen years and the best minds here have not been able to draw the curtain on it. Neither will you, as long as you insist on sharing that stage with it's quintessential player.

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37 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

Tell that to your 'personal' god entity and make her not feel pain like you so that she can walk ten miles a day again just so you can go read your ten more books a day so you can further 'prove' how not narcissistic you are. 

Good luck 

~

Not worth discussing

this is basic trolling,

I responded to your remark about walking on the beach  God has nothing to do with it although my wife would argue that her faith gives her the strength and courage to endure and stay happy  

You take what  you  want to take from that post 

I explained that i would walk 5 ks or more with her but i just wasn't interested in walking for 6  hours She actually preferred to be by herself and when we walked would keep a distance for solitude of mind Otherwise i would intrude by trying to talk to her  Plus of course she was shell collecting. If didn't drive to pick her, up she had to walk back over the beach she had already covered. I would double the beach she could explore by  driving  around to pick her up ( I should have explained that the distances i used were one way Eg i might walk 5 ks with her then have to walk 5 ks back to the car    She would walk 20 or 30 ks, sometimes, without having to retrace her steps 

But anyway what's wrong with you that you feel the need to criticise .  This was my wife's choice and requirement . I jus did what i was told :)  

There was no danger to her,  either from people or nature ,  and she just loved walking by herself with the dogs . this image represents her most common walking areas Sometimes she would hop in the ute and take the dogs, while I was teaching 

We lived at Whites River and she walked anywhere from  Louth Bay to Tumby bay , as well as on many other  beaches around Lower Eyre peninsula,  from Cowell across to Elliston '

https://www.geodata.us/australia_names_maps/aumaps.php?fid=198555&f=197&name=Peake Bay

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5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, it doesn't. That's ego talking, not the Buddha. It's an error we are all guilty of, more often than not counter-productive. There are behaviors of others impossible to correct and all we do is give them a stage to perform them on before the masses. This show has been going on for over a dozen years and the best minds here have not been able to draw the curtain on it. Neither will you, as long as you insist on sharing that stage with it's quintessential player.

I agree there are behaviors that impossible to correct. However, open misrepresentation of a spiritual belief can be remedied by highlighting it and correcting it with truth. The individual misrepresenting the beliefs may learn nothing but future readers of a the thread can again something. It doesn’t matter how the long the show has been going, your choice of how to deal with is great and I would never tell you what to do concerning it. But, because I don’t agree with your view doesn’t make my view wrong and I have the same right you do to handle it in any manner I choose!

Thanks for your comments if you wish to learn something about Buddhas teaching, ( sutras ) I would be happy to point you in the right direction!

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6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not worth discussing

Very nice of you to admit to your lies

Much appreciated... 

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

this is basic trolling,

The story of your time on UM

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I responded to your remark about walking on the beach  God has nothing to do with it although my wife would argue that her faith gives her the strength and courage to endure and stay happy  

Or more accurately, your 'god's is just another figment of your cognitive fictitious construction 

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You take what  you  want to take from that post 

Always have, always will... Half of it deceit, the other, variations of the same tiresome lies. 

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I explained that i would walk 5 ks or more with her but i just wasn't interested in walking for 6  hours She actually preferred to be by herself and when we walked would keep a distance for solitude of mind Otherwise i would intrude by trying to talk to her  Plus of course she was shell collecting. If didn't drive to pick her, up she had to walk back over the beach she had already covered. I would double the beach she could explore by  driving  around to pick her up ( I should have explained that the distances i used were one way Eg i might walk 5 ks with her then have to walk 5 ks back to the car    She would walk 20 or 30 ks, sometimes, without having to retrace her steps 

It looks like that's a lot of effort just to get away from you, but then, hard to tell your lies from the lies you forgot you told, technically a quagmire of poor intellectual and flimsy falsehoods

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

But anyway what's wrong with you that you feel the need to criticise .  This was my wife's choice and requirement . I jus did what i was told :)  

Nope, just laying out the facts as you so desperately try to assert as true when quite obviously does not hold to simple logical scrutiny. 

~

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There was no danger to her,  either from people or nature ,  and she just loved walking by herself with the dogs . 

Sure, you forget your personal God construct that you refer to 'the y' will save her from whatever and whenever eh? 

Carry on... 

~

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8 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree there are behaviors that impossible to correct. However, open misrepresentation of a spiritual belief can be remedied by highlighting it and correcting it with truth. The individual misrepresenting the beliefs may learn nothing but future readers of a the thread can again something. It doesn’t matter how the long the show has been going, your choice of how to deal with is great and I would never tell you what to do concerning it. But, because I don’t agree with your view doesn’t make my view wrong and I have the same right you do to handle it in any manner I choose!

Thanks for your comments if you wish to learn something about Buddhas teaching, ( sutras ) I would be happy to point you in the right direction!

I explored these philosophies in my youth, Buddhism, Tao, their syncretism, Zen, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism. I found nothing that was very different from my ancestral Calvinism, as all contain aspects of the unprovable, requiring the same measure of Faith. So, the template for Faith and Belief of the cultural complex of my own people suffices. This thread is, after all, about the Pope, not the Dali Lama. I prefer Psalms over Sutras, thank you very much!

I do agree everyone is entitled to make their own mistakes, even if it gets threads closed, I suppose. 

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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I explored these philosophies in my youth, Buddhism, Tao, their syncretism, Zen, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism. I found nothing that was very different from my ancestral Calvinism, as all contain aspects of the unprovable, requiring the same measure of Faith. So, the template for Faith and Belief of the cultural complex of my own people suffices. This thread is, after all, about the Pope, not the Dali Lama. I prefer Psalms over Sutras, thank you very much!

I do agree everyone is entitled to make their own mistakes, even if it gets threads closed, I suppose

Well I did not bring the Buddhist aspect of the conversation into this thread, however I did participate in it! As far as getting threads closed are actually saying you have never been guilty of that?:D

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3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad and a bit scary

Basically you put aside your own responsibility  and duty to humanity and accuse me of becoming emotional in pointing them out  :) 

This is not emotion. It is pure simple fact 

You are the one with biological children and potential grand children , who is always going on about the special bond you have with them  Thus you should be more ware and active in such matters. (Just my two cents worth, of course. )

Where on earth did you get any idea of revenge. This is about equality, justice, duty and responsibility  You must have  a very different mind to me. 

MW, breathe. :ph34r: I will not be engaging you any longer on this topic. You are trying to troll me looking for a fight, I am not interested. 
 

Moving on. 

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2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

basically my understanding  is based on modern psychological principles and practices 

I will use their definitions because the y almost match my own One exception is that, for me, mindfulness encompasses past present and future.

In becoming mindful,  we  remember the past and use it to create a belter future 

quote

Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention to the present. This state is described as observing one’s thoughts and feelings without judging them as good or bad.

To live mindfully is to live in the moment and reawaken oneself to the present, rather than dwelling on the past or anticipating the future. To be mindful is to observe and label thoughts, feelings, sensations in the body in an objective manner. Mindfulness can therefore be a tool to avoid self-criticism and judgment while identifying and managing difficult emotions.

Mindfulness is rooted in Buddhist and Hindu teachings. Buddhism includes a journey toward enlightenment, and the concept of “sati,”—which encompasses attention, awareness, and being present—is considered the first step toward enlightenment. The term was roughly translated from the ancient language Pali into the term “mindfulness.”

What is the purpose of mindfulness?

The goal of mindfulness is to cultivate perspective on one’s consciousness and identity that can bring greater peace mentally and relationally. Mindfulness may also be used in mindfulness-based therapies, to address stress, anxiety, or pain, and simply to become more relaxed.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/mindfulness

For me it is the basic principle of logical/ rational thinking, as opposed to using emotions  to make decisions , or decide your mood and responses  . eg 

quotes

 

1. We suffer more in imagination and thoughts (story mode) than in reality itself (mindfulness mode). For example, thinking about upcoming challenges is almost always worse than dealing with them in the present.

2. The mindfulness mode we cultivate in meditation directly strengthens our capacity for concentration; while temporary by nature, as concentration grows, it is inherently pleasurable; this pleasure can spread into seemingly mundane, quotidian tasks,

 

4. By practicing “mindfulness of emotion,” you can learn to watch anger (or any feeling) instead of automatically getting caught in it. In doing so, you can experience that it is virtually impossible to stay angry for a long time without following the trains of thought anger would aimlessly take him on, and thickening the fabricated story that was justifying it. The half-life of an emotion, by itself, without being fueled by thought, is roughly 90 seconds.

5. You can witness that negative feelings are intrinsically transitory when observing them curiously, independent of the narrative underlying them.

6. You can access a sense of well-being from merely being alive and sensing your innate, ever-present aliveness, which you cultivate through mindfulness practice.

7. Just like sleep and hunger, the mind is malleable, it can relearn to settle into stillness naturally. Stillness is its natural state (think of the moment you were conceived in your mother's womb), just like the stillness 30 feet under the ocean, below the surface level agitation. Ironically when we welcome distraction during meditation, it happens less. Practicing brings you closer to this stillness.

Mindfulness, thus, may be the wrong word. When we hear the prefix mind, it links to verbal thinking in our minds, which I've just expounded, isn't mindfulness. It's a poor translation from the original word in the Pali language. “Heartfulness," "presence,” or “systematic attentional training” may be better.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mindfulness-insights/202111/the-paradox-mindfulness

 

If you want my own thoughts, I'd throw in a couple of specific ones 

The quotes above are basically high school level  understanding.   You can go on to university level understanding 

ie Mindfulness and stillness of mind don't require meditation The y are basic neural patterns which  you can create and access at will There is a switch in your brain which you can learn to turn on and off and achieve these states immediately Then it  is just a matter of skill, will, and discipline of mind. 

Likewise for emotions. You don't have to experience an emotion for 90 seconds  If you  can control it after that long by mindfulness, then  you can control it altogether instantly  Once you  understand the pattern of neural activity which is an emotion , and the triggers which generate that neural pattern, then you can prevent it occuring or call on it  in an instant or enhance or diminish   it at will. No one HAS to feel anger , hate,  fear etc.   They nay choose not to , by being mindful Likewise we can all learn to feel joy love compassion etc., on demand. 

Mr. Walker that is a cut and pasted description of mindfulness, but I specifically ask you to supply your own description. Apparently you were unable to explain your own type of mindfulness you say you practice, that’s ok I will not ask again and I will also no longer respond to your comments!

Be well Mr. Walker, hope your wife is doing well and will receive the surgery she needs soon!

Edited by Manwon Lender
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2 hours ago, SHaYap said:

Very nice of you to admit to your lies

Much appreciated... 

~

The story of your time on UM

~

Or more accurately, your 'god's is just another figment of your cognitive fictitious construction 

~

Always have, always will... Half of it deceit, the other, variations of the same tiresome lies. 

~

It looks like that's a lot of effort just to get away from you, but then, hard to tell your lies from the lies you forgot you told, technically a quagmire of poor intellectual and flimsy falsehoods

~

Nope, just laying out the facts as you so desperately try to assert as true when quite obviously does not hold to simple logical scrutiny. 

~

Sure, you forget your personal God construct that you refer to 'the y' will save her from whatever and whenever eh? 

Carry on... 

~

Not only are you are a troll you must be a naturally obnoxious and desperately sad individual  You seem to see only bad in others which probably reflects your feelings about your own nature and worth 

I just worked out that you are a reincarnation of 3 eyes so back on ignore you go.

  If you ever bothered to try and use "logical scrutiny"  to criticise my posts, I would have more time for you  but I suspect you don't have the intellectual capacity for that sort of debate 

Ad hominem name  calling is usually a disguise for a lack of intelligence, and capacity for rational debate :)  

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2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well I did not bring the Buddhist aspect of the conversation into this thread, however I did participate in it! As far as getting threads closed are actually saying you have never been guilty of that?:D

It's not a fixation on the Buddha that does the damage. I've done my share of damage, for sure, without feeling any guilt. That's is your introduction. 

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19 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not only are you are a troll you must be a naturally obnoxious and desperately sad individual  You seem to see only bad in others which probably reflects your feelings about your own nature and worth 

I just worked out that you are a reincarnation of 3 eyes so back on ignore you go.

  If you ever bothered to try and use "logical scrutiny"  to criticise my posts, I would have more time for you  but I suspect you don't have the intellectual capacity for that sort of debate 

Ad hominem name  calling is usually a disguise for a lack of intelligence, and capacity for rational debate :)  

If the truth be told Shayap is considered an intellectual by many of us and his contributions to the board are incredible. He Is a highly respected poster.

Because he isn’t a braggart doesn’t mean he isn’t an astounding critical thinker.  
 


 

 

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22 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Mr. Walker that is a cut and pasted description of mindfulness, but I specifically ask you to supply your own description. Apparently you were unable to explain your own type of mindfulness you say you practice, that’s ok I will not ask again and I will also no longer respond to your comments!

Be well Mr. Walker, hope your wife is doing well and will receive the surgery she needs soon!

I gave you both

i had already explained that my definition came from  my studies of psychology so it is very similar  to what i quoted 

I then gave you some specific pieces i disagreed with

What you are asking is kind of like asking a person for their personal version of quantum mechanics.

I practice the form of mindfulness i gave , however , I have never used or required meditation,  perhaps because I learned stillness of mind and mindfulness as a young child , ( My parents had me practicing it from infancy )  just as I learned to read and write    Rather I used mental discipline and control to achieve the outcomes  which others reach via meditation  For example my parents might get to me to sit silent for 30 minutes not meditating but using logic or thinking through  questions  ethics moral dilemmas  Eg in 30 minutes workout why we do not steal form another .  You are in a desert with a bottle of water which will last one person 4 days but there are 4 of you Do you share What are the reasons for your answer. What options do you  have which might increase the survival of  you all? We were all asked to think on and reply to similar questions every day or night .  I know i was doing this aged 4 but it started even earlier as i observed with my younger siblings In very simple terms (the end result of)  mindfulness is knowing your own mind completely and thus having total directed control over every thought word and action  You know why you act and you know what the consequences will be You logically weigh up every action in milliseconds Thus you never feel anger hate fear guilt etc You never deliberately hurt yourself or another    Because we are human we are never perfect at this but a mindful person will be many times better adapted in thoughts and behaviours and thus  happier,   more respected and loved  The y will be stronger ,more resilient,  and more able to help others  The following from  above are real and physical outcomes from  mindfulness

  38 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Please explain the concept of mindfulness you follow, you have already stated it is not the Buddhist concept in a previous post. So please explain your personal concept in your own words!

basically my understanding  is based on modern psychological principles and practices 

I will use their definitions because the y almost match my own One exception is that, for me, mindfulness encompasses past present and future.

In becoming mindful,  we  remember the past and use it to create a belter future 

quote

Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention to the present. This state is described as observing one’s thoughts and feelings without judging them as good or bad.

To live mindfully is to live in the moment and reawaken oneself to the present, rather than dwelling on the past or anticipating the future. To be mindful is to observe and label thoughts, feelings, sensations in the body in an objective manner. Mindfulness can therefore be a tool to avoid self-criticism and judgment while identifying and managing difficult emotions.

Mindfulness is rooted in Buddhist and Hindu teachings. Buddhism includes a journey toward enlightenment, and the concept of “sati,”—which encompasses attention, awareness, and being present—is considered the first step toward enlightenment. The term was roughly translated from the ancient language Pali into the term “mindfulness.”

What is the purpose of mindfulness?

The goal of mindfulness is to cultivate perspective on one’s consciousness and identity that can bring greater peace mentally and relationally. Mindfulness may also be used in mindfulness-based therapies, to address stress, anxiety, or pain, and simply to become more relaxed.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/mindfulness

For me it is the basic principle of logical/ rational thinking, as opposed to using emotions  to make decisions , or decide your mood and responses  . eg 

quotes

 

1. We suffer more in imagination and thoughts (story mode) than in reality itself (mindfulness mode). For example, thinking about upcoming challenges is almost always worse than dealing with them in the present.

I was taught and worked this out as a preschooler There is nothing to fear in life The hardest t fear to eliminate is fear of being afraid, but that too can be eliminated 

2. The mindfulness mode we cultivate in meditation directly strengthens our capacity for concentration; while temporary by nature, as concentration grows, it is inherently pleasurable; this pleasure can spread into seemingly mundane, quotidian tasks,

 As I said above, mental discipline through skill and discipline is the key Meditation is one tool  My parents taught me using other methods .

4. By practicing “mindfulness of emotion,” you can learn to watch anger (or any feeling) instead of automatically getting caught in it. In doing so, you can experience that it is virtually impossible to stay angry for a long time without following the trains of thought anger would aimlessly take him on, and thickening the fabricated story that was justifying it. The half-life of an emotion, by itself, without being fueled by thought, is roughly 90 seconds.

as mentioned earlier this is true but only part true  You can learn to recognise the physiological triggers for emotions, and the neural patterns which make up an emotion .Then you can simply stop them occurring and  /or create a more positive response 

5. You can witness that negative feelings are intrinsically transitory when observing them curiously, independent of the narrative underlying them.

again something learned and taught to me by my parents in pre school years

6. You can access a sense of well-being from merely being alive and sensing your innate, ever-present aliveness, which you cultivate through mindfulness practice. 

Well being and joy are just other neural patterns of energy Once you  recognise them you can recreate them on demand   You can feel joy and happiness no matter what your physical conditions or environmen

7. Just like sleep and hunger, the mind is malleable, it can relearn to settle into stillness naturally. Stillness is its natural state (think of the moment you were conceived in your mother's womb), just like the stillness 30 feet under the ocean, below the surface level agitation. Ironically when we welcome distraction during meditation, it happens less. Practicing brings you closer to this stillness.

Indeed the mind is malleable,  hence the term neural plasticity, and the "I"  or consciousness, which is you, controls the mind. You can create stillness, concentration or any other form of cognition on demand once you learn how to 

Mindfulness, thus, may be the wrong word. When we hear the prefix mind, it links to verbal thinking in our minds, which I've just expounded, isn't mindfulness. It's a poor translation from the original word in the Pali language. “Heartfulness," "presence,” or “systematic attentional training” may be better.

Yes, to me it is; 

“systematic attentional training”

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

If the truth be told Shayap is considered an intellectual by many of us and his contributions to the board are incredible. He Is a highly respected poster.

Because he isn’t a braggart doesn’t mean he isn’t an astounding critical thinker.  
 


 

 

You are entitled to your opinions , but anyone who addresses other posters as he does is basically a troll.

I assume he gets some vicarious pleasure or satisfies some deep inner need from it  And he has NEVER responded to any post of mine with logic or factual argument  so I don't see evidence of competency in those areas.  

Lastly, I had never considered him  to be bragging , just angry.  

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You are entitled to your opinions , but anyone who addresses other posters as he does is basically a troll.

I assume he gets some vicarious pleasure or satisfies some deep inner need from it  And he has NEVER responded to any post of mine with logic or factual argument  so I don't see evidence of competency in those areas.  

Lastly, I had never considered him  to be bragging , just angry.  

 

Then you have a tin ear when it comes to dry wit, subtle caustic commentary and his predilection for droll understatement--all inspired by your own lovable self! Just wordplay by a well-traveled trouper. 

Macbeth

  Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow    
  Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,    
  To the last syllable of recorded time;    
  And all our yesterdays have lighted fools    
  The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle.    
  Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,    
  That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,    
  And then is heard no more. It is a tale    
  Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,    
  Signifying nothing.
Edited by Hammerclaw
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33 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's not a fixation on the Buddha that does the damage. I've done my share of damage, for sure, without feeling any guilt. That's is your introduction. 

I see no fixation on the Buddha my response was directed at you comment, and I quote: This thread is, after all, about the Pope, not the Dali Lama.  As far as that being my introduction, I am a little dense and I missed your point, but I do appreciate your honesty concerning causing threads to be shut down because we are all certainly responsible for causing that! But some times a thread reaches a point where the context outlined in the OP has been derailed to the point where continuing it is no longer worth the time to continue it. Sometimes it may be better to just start a new thread and pick up where the derailment occurred, this way it’s much less confusing for someone trying to catch up

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