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Pope Francis says choosing pets over kids is selfish


Eldorado
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19 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Mr Walker you conception of Buddhism amounts to internet searches and then what you can cut and paste. It’s very obvious you have not studied the subject or contemplated it’s meaning and value. I am fully aware of engaged Buddhism, and I am able to converse about the subject without reference. However. your do not realize that by posting information doesn’t show you understand the concept, or that your knowledgeable about the subject. Why you choose to use Wikipedia, and cut - paste I have no idea because you’d not fooling anyone. Here are the principles that Engaged Buddhism was built upon, if you want to learn about this Buddhist philosophy of mindfulness you may want to read and memorize them.

The Fourteen Precepts of Engaged Buddhism

1. Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

2. Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

3. Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

4. Do not avoid contact with suffering or close your eyes before suffering. Do not lose awareness of the existence of suffering in the life of the world. Find ways to be with those who are suffering, including personal contact, visits, images, and sounds. By such means, awaken yourself and others to the reality of suffering in the world.

5. Do not accumulate wealth while millions are hungry. Do not take as the aim of your life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure. Live simply and share time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need.

6. Do not maintain anger or hatred. Learn to penetrate and transform them when they are still seeds in your consciousness. As soon as they arise, turn your attention to your breath in order to see and understand the nature of your hatred.

7. Do not lose yourself in dispersion and in your surroundings. Practice mindful breathing to come back to what is happening in the present moment. Be in touch with what is wondrous, refreshing, and healing both inside and around you. Plant seeds of joy, peace, and understanding in yourself in order to facilitate the work of transformation in the depths of your consciousness.

8. Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

9. Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest or to impress people. Do not utter words that cause division and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things of which you are not sure. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety.

10. Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religious community, however, should take a clear stand against oppression and injustice and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts.

11. Do not live with a vocation that is harmful to humans and nature. Do not invest in companies that deprive others of their chance to live. Select a vocation that helps realize your ideal of compassion.

12. Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and prevent war.

13. Possess nothing that should belong to others. Respect the property of others, but prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on Earth.

14. Do not mistreat your body. Learn to handle it with respect. Do not look on your body as only an instrument. Preserve vital energies (sexual, breath, spirit) for the realization of the Way. (For brothers and sisters who are not monks and nuns) Sexual expression should not take place without love and commitment. In sexual relationships, be aware of future suffering that may be caused. To preserve the happiness of others, respect the rights and commitments of others. Be fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new lives into the world. Meditate on the world into which you are bringing new beings. https://www.learnreligions.com/proselytization-and-buddhism-449625

Mr. Walker the bolded sentences above apply directly apply to you in every respect! In every single comment bolded above you directly violate those principles in every post. I have brought this directly to your attention on more than one occasion. However, you do not contemplate any constructive criticism, you just continue to live in a world of complete fantasy. Maybe you don’t realize it, maybe you don’t care, or possibly you are unable to comprehend what is being said, but in any case all of the comments bolded shine a bright light on  the attempts you make to act like you understand the subject OBVIOUSLY, CLEARly AND DISTURBINGLY. 


Proselytizing

The historical Buddha openly disagreed with many of the teachings of the Brahmins, Jains, and other religious people of his day. Nevertheless, he taught his disciples to respect clergy and followers of other religions. Further, in most schools of Buddhism aggressive proselytizing is discouraged. Proselytizing is defined by dictionaries as attempting to convert someone from one religion or belief to another, or arguing that your position as the only correct one. I want to make it clear proselytizing is not the same as simply sharing one's religious beliefs or practices without trying to "push" them or force them on others.

I'm sure you're aware that some religious traditions insist on proselytizing. But going back to the time of the historical Buddha, our tradition has been for a Buddhist not to speak of the Buddha dharma until asked. Some schools require being asked three times. The Pali Vinaya-pitaka, rules for the monastic orders, forbids monks and nuns from preaching to people who seem disinterested or disrespectful. It's also against the Vinaya rules to teach people who are in vehicles, or walking, or who are sitting while the monastic is standing.

So again Mr. Walker on the subject of Buddhist Proselytizing you are again completely confused and trying to push your personal dogma and inject it into a conversation where like I have told you it doesn’t belong! Because your unable, unwilling or can not comprehend it doesn’t prove anything except your lack of ability to conceptualize and to apply critical thinking to the subject at hand. Last Mr. Walker there is a great deal you could learn if you approached these conversations with mind set of a student, and not a teacher. Because Mr. Walker, you are certainly not able to teach this subject in a manner that is inline with present Buddhist teachings, this fact is according to Buddhas beliefs, and the Dharma itself. 

Mr. Walk walking the Buddhist Path and practicing a philosophy are far different than the bastardized way you attempt to approach the philosophy and it’s a bit insulting to anyone who practices the Philosophy.

I believe sincerely you should stick to Christian beliefs and continue to follow Mr. Bucke who was the inventor of the Cosmic Consciousness you tell everyone you were born with!

Peace Mr. Walker, I hope you contemplate what I have said here because that would certainly be more beneficial than repeating comments about what you believe, which is not part of the Buddhist methods of teaching or its philosophy!:tu:
 

Thank you Craig for posting quality information about Buddhism. 
 


Clearly, the interpretation offered by the poster is SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) through and through and any other philosophy including Buddhism is undergirded and filtered through this lens. 

 

Basic Buddhism 101 begins with honesty is the best policy. 
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you Craig for posting quality information about Buddhism. 
 


Clearly, the interpretation offered by the poster is SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) through and through and any other philosophy including Buddhism is undergirded and filtered through this lens. 

 

Basic Buddhism 101 begins with honesty is the best policy. 
 

 

Sheri, your very welcome and like we have discussed I don’t like it where someone misrepresents my spiritual beliefs and neither do you. Hopefully this will not continue because there is no reason for it too. I suspect and would like to believe that Mr. Walker is just confused and isn’t intentionally doing this. His next response should either clear this up, or attempt to lead us down his rabbit hole but hopefully the latter will occur.

Sheri, thanks for your kind comments and I hope this reply fines you and yours health and safe’.:tu:

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47 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Sheri, your very welcome and like we have discussed I don’t like it where someone misrepresents my spiritual beliefs and neither do you. Hopefully this will not continue because there is no reason for it too. I suspect and would like to believe that Mr. Walker is just confused and isn’t intentionally doing this. His next response should either clear this up, or attempt to lead us down his rabbit hole but hopefully the latter will occur.

Sheri, thanks for your kind comments and I hope this reply fines you and yours health and safe’.:tu:

Indeed, it is just dishonest to misrepresent Buddhism/Mindfulness. Most likely it will continue, yet, in the thread is quality information too. 

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20 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Mr Walker you conception of Buddhism amounts to internet searches and then what you can cut and paste. It’s very obvious you have not studied the subject or contemplated it’s meaning and value. I am fully aware of engaged Buddhism, and I am able to converse about the subject without reference. However. your do not realize that by posting information doesn’t show you understand the concept, or that your knowledgeable about the subject. Why you choose to use Wikipedia, and cut - paste I have no idea because you’d not fooling anyone. Here are the principles that Engaged Buddhism was built upon, if you want to learn about this Buddhist philosophy of mindfulness you may want to read and memorize them.

The Fourteen Precepts of Engaged Buddhism

1. Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

2. Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

3. Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

4. Do not avoid contact with suffering or close your eyes before suffering. Do not lose awareness of the existence of suffering in the life of the world. Find ways to be with those who are suffering, including personal contact, visits, images, and sounds. By such means, awaken yourself and others to the reality of suffering in the world.

5. Do not accumulate wealth while millions are hungry. Do not take as the aim of your life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure. Live simply and share time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need.

6. Do not maintain anger or hatred. Learn to penetrate and transform them when they are still seeds in your consciousness. As soon as they arise, turn your attention to your breath in order to see and understand the nature of your hatred.

7. Do not lose yourself in dispersion and in your surroundings. Practice mindful breathing to come back to what is happening in the present moment. Be in touch with what is wondrous, refreshing, and healing both inside and around you. Plant seeds of joy, peace, and understanding in yourself in order to facilitate the work of transformation in the depths of your consciousness.

8. Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

9. Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest or to impress people. Do not utter words that cause division and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things of which you are not sure. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety.

10. Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religious community, however, should take a clear stand against oppression and injustice and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts.

11. Do not live with a vocation that is harmful to humans and nature. Do not invest in companies that deprive others of their chance to live. Select a vocation that helps realize your ideal of compassion.

12. Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and prevent war.

13. Possess nothing that should belong to others. Respect the property of others, but prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on Earth.

14. Do not mistreat your body. Learn to handle it with respect. Do not look on your body as only an instrument. Preserve vital energies (sexual, breath, spirit) for the realization of the Way. (For brothers and sisters who are not monks and nuns) Sexual expression should not take place without love and commitment. In sexual relationships, be aware of future suffering that may be caused. To preserve the happiness of others, respect the rights and commitments of others. Be fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new lives into the world. Meditate on the world into which you are bringing new beings. https://www.learnreligions.com/proselytization-and-buddhism-449625

Mr. Walker the bolded sentences above apply directly apply to you in every respect! In every single comment bolded above you directly violate those principles in every post. I have brought this directly to your attention on more than one occasion. However, you do not contemplate any constructive criticism, you just continue to live in a world of complete fantasy. Maybe you don’t realize it, maybe you don’t care, or possibly you are unable to comprehend what is being said, but in any case all of the comments bolded shine a bright light on  the attempts you make to act like you understand the subject OBVIOUSLY, CLEARly AND DISTURBINGLY. 


Proselytizing

The historical Buddha openly disagreed with many of the teachings of the Brahmins, Jains, and other religious people of his day. Nevertheless, he taught his disciples to respect clergy and followers of other religions. Further, in most schools of Buddhism aggressive proselytizing is discouraged. Proselytizing is defined by dictionaries as attempting to convert someone from one religion or belief to another, or arguing that your position as the only correct one. I want to make it clear proselytizing is not the same as simply sharing one's religious beliefs or practices without trying to "push" them or force them on others.

I'm sure you're aware that some religious traditions insist on proselytizing. But going back to the time of the historical Buddha, our tradition has been for a Buddhist not to speak of the Buddha dharma until asked. Some schools require being asked three times. The Pali Vinaya-pitaka, rules for the monastic orders, forbids monks and nuns from preaching to people who seem disinterested or disrespectful. It's also against the Vinaya rules to teach people who are in vehicles, or walking, or who are sitting while the monastic is standing.

So again Mr. Walker on the subject of Buddhist Proselytizing you are again completely confused and trying to push your personal dogma and inject it into a conversation where like I have told you it doesn’t belong! Because your unable, unwilling or can not comprehend it doesn’t prove anything except your lack of ability to conceptualize and to apply critical thinking to the subject at hand. Last Mr. Walker there is a great deal you could learn if you approached these conversations with mind set of a student, and not a teacher. Because Mr. Walker, you are certainly not able to teach this subject in a manner that is inline with present Buddhist teachings, this fact is according to Buddhas beliefs, and the Dharma itself. 

Mr. Walk walking the Buddhist Path and practicing a philosophy are far different than the bastardized way you attempt to approach the philosophy and it’s a bit insulting to anyone who practices the Philosophy.

I believe sincerely you should stick to Christian beliefs and continue to follow Mr. Bucke who was the inventor of the Cosmic Consciousness you tell everyone you were born with!

Peace Mr. Walker, I hope you contemplate what I have said here because that would certainly be more beneficial than repeating comments about what you believe, which is not part of the Buddhist methods of teaching or its philosophy!:tu:
 

If you are as aware of engaged Buddhism as you claim, then you will be aware that it supports some of what i see in Buddhism and rejects the unilateral form of Buddhism you appear to hold 

i respect your Buddhist philosophy but its not the only form of Buddhism 

its funny. I get criticised for using sources to support my pov and i get criticised for not 

 I began studying Buddhism  50 years ago. I only studied it for a few years and was not able to find any local Buddhists in my area  It was pre computers so i had to study it from  books 

I enjoyed much of its teachings and adapted much of it into my own way of living  but i could not live by it entirely in my community 

I taught Buddhism, along with many other religions as part of  middle school   curricula (ages 14-15)  for a couple of decades 

It  was the academic comparative religions form of study, but gave me further insights into the breadth of Buddhist beliefs and practices 

Ps I follow every one of the first 9 principles you give albeit  some more rigorously than others  Sometimes, to improve the world, for example, you have to say and do things which upset others. 

You highlight number 9

This has been one of my values and practices since childhood. Lying was one of the greatest "sins" in my secular humanist family.  

Lying is deceit, and deceit harms yourself and others  

Lying leads others  to mistrust you, and your word and honour to lose credibility.  Lying to self  leads you from the path of truth and into disharmony and discord  within your soul

  Number 10 There is no Buddhist community near me but that was a principle drilled into me via humanism. 

Number 11 My choice of vocation reflected that commitment.  (it certainly wasn't about money  or power) I made my choice when I was 10 years old, and spent  over 50  years being paid by the education dept.  and a total of  60 years   in the education sphere  as a student and teacher. 

Number 12 

That's one I disagree with Sometimes it is necessary to kill another to prevent them killing many more  Indeed the very    ideology is contradictory  Do not kill Do not allow others to kill Do what ever is necessary to prevent killing.  Actually i do agree with that but read it literally  I am about 90% vegetarian   I haven't killed an animal for decades (apart from a few mosquitoes )

However my problem with eating animals is more complex First animal suffering should be minimised in the raising and killing of domestic animals.    Second meat consumption  by developed countries MUST be reduced to enable our planet to survive and to create a more equitable division of resources    Third, our (Western) diet , rich in proteins and fats,  is killing us 

Failure to stop such a person or nation when you could have done some  creates some  responsibility for their killing.

I don't have the fatalism required, to sit back and do nothing, where i can protect the innocent   

number 13 is how we (my wife and i)  both live our lives.

 Number 14 is absolutely correct and how I have lived almost all my life 

There is a strong overlap between many of these principles and those of  secular humanism, and with Christianity and other religions 

It is interesting. I and  my friends and neighbours know how I live, yet you feel you can judge me from internet posts which you often don't understand or agree with

You see me violating those precepts, and yet I live by  almost every one of them 

No disagreement that AGRESSIVE proselytising  is not practiced by most Buddhists

My point  (from a Buddhist source) was that Buddhists who see the benefits of a Buddhist way of life, and who have love and compassion for others will encourage others to follow the path which brings them peace and joy. 

I am not a Buddhist. I don't practice bastardised Buddhism  ( or bastardised Christianity or Judaism ) but an individual and unique way of life, which draws on the most constructive  beliefs and practices from  many religions and originally from my childhood  upbringing as a secular humanist  It has worked for me for over 50years and it has saved the lives of many others and many animals  around the world through the   intervention of my wife and myself.  

I'd never heard of Bucke until the internet.  (I read about him sometime after 2004 ) I used the term cosmic consciousness or universal consciousness from  the age of 13 (in 1964) to describe the nature of the entity I connected to/with at that time, and which has never left me. 

I never knew that other humans  had had a similar contact and experience. 

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55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

If you are as aware of engaged Buddhism as you claim, then you will be aware that it supports some of what i see in Buddhism and rejects the unilateral form of Buddhism you appear to hold 

i respect your Buddhist philosophy but its not the only form of Buddhism 

its funny. I get criticised for using sources to support my pov and i get criticised for not 

 I began studying Buddhism  50 years ago. I only studied it for a few years and was not able to find any local Buddhists in my area  It was pre computers so i had to study it from  books 

I enjoyed much of its teachings and adapted much of it into my own way of living  but i could not live by it entirely in my community 

I taught Buddhism, along with many other religions as part of  middle school   curricula (ages 14-15)  for a couple of decades 

It  was the academic comparative religions form of study, but gave me further insights into the breadth of Buddhist beliefs and practices 

Ps I follow every one of the first 9 principles you give albeit  some more rigorously than others  Sometimes, to improve the world, for example, you have to say and do things which upset others. 

You highlight number 9

This has been one of my values and practices since childhood. Lying was one of the greatest "sins" in my secular humanist family.  

Lying is deceit, and deceit harms yourself and others  

Lying leads others  to mistrust you, and your word and honour to lose credibility.  Lying to self  leads you from the path of truth and into disharmony and discord  within your soul

  Number 10 There is no Buddhist community near me but that was a principle drilled into me via humanism. 

Number 11 My choice of vocation reflected that commitment.  (it certainly wasn't about money  or power) I made my choice when I was 10 years old, and spent  over 50  years being paid by the education dept.  and a total of  60 years   in the education sphere  as a student and teacher. 

Number 12 

That's one I disagree with Sometimes it is necessary to kill another to prevent them killing many more  Indeed the very    ideology is contradictory  Do not kill Do not allow others to kill Do what ever is necessary to prevent killing.  Actually i do agree with that but read it literally  I am about 90% vegetarian   I haven't killed an animal for decades (apart from a few mosquitoes )

However my problem with eating animals is more complex First animal suffering should be minimised in the raising and killing of domestic animals.    Second meat consumption  by developed countries MUST be reduced to enable our planet to survive and to create a more equitable division of resources    Third, our (Western) diet , rich in proteins and fats,  is killing us 

Failure to stop such a person or nation when you could have done some  creates some  responsibility for their killing.

I don't have the fatalism required, to sit back and do nothing, where i can protect the innocent   

number 13 is how we (my wife and i)  both live our lives.

 Number 14 is absolutely correct and how I have lived almost all my life 

There is a strong overlap between many of these principles and those of  secular humanism, and with Christianity and other religions 

It is interesting. I and  my friends and neighbours know how I live, yet you feel you can judge me from internet posts which you often don't understand or agree with

You see me violating those precepts, and yet I live by  almost every one of them 

No disagreement that AGRESSIVE proselytising  is not practiced by most Buddhists

My point  (from a Buddhist source) was that Buddhists who see the benefits of a Buddhist way of life, and who have love and compassion for others will encourage others to follow the path which brings them peace and joy. 

I am not a Buddhist. I don't practice bastardised Buddhism  ( or bastardised Christianity or Judaism ) but an individual and unique way of life, which draws on the most constructive  beliefs and practices from  many religions and originally from my childhood  upbringing as a secular humanist  It has worked for me for over 50years and it has saved the lives of many others and many animals  around the world through the   intervention of my wife and myself.  

I'd never heard of Bucke until the internet.  (I read about him sometime after 2004 ) I used the term cosmic consciousness or universal consciousness from  the age of 13 (in 1964) to describe the nature of the entity I connected to/with at that time, and which has never left me

I never knew that other humans  had had a similar contact and experience. 

I understand who created the concept of Egaged Buddhism very well, and its comes directly from Zen Buddist tradition and the practice of mindfulness. The Buddhist Master Thich Nhat Hanh, who created Engaged Buddhism and he was also the foremost Zen Buddhist Master in the world until his recent passing. However, unless you have changed your views on Zen Buddhism I dont know why you would use either Zen, Mindfulness, and Engaged Buddhism into the conversation. Because you have criticized, Mindfulness and Zen Buddhist prectices on this forum many times. Do I need to refresh your memory, if so I can quote and repost many comments you have made previously on the subject on this forum, would you like me to do that? 

As far as your comments on killing someone, and it being against all Buddhist belief's that not correct. One of the most visible Buddhist Masters in the world today doesnt agree that if you are threaten by someone with death that you should not also try to kill that individual!

Image result for dalai lama quotes on killing to protect yourself

Lying and being deceitful is how your comments are veiwed by many members here, and they tell you how they feel openly. I agree it certainly does lead others to mistreat you, mistrust your comments and it does lead to a complete lack of Credibility and that is why people criticize you so often here you dont realize this?

Now, I do not necessarily prescribe to all of that because I have not known you long enough to have an opinion of you. 

I am not judging you only your comments and you are wong that I do understand the intent and the content of your comments. However when it comes Buddhism I do not agree with you at all because you often try to teach others according to your beleifs and preconceived notions not according to Buddhist Philosophy and your thought process concerning Buddhism is wrong! When you step into a coversation on the subject, you attempt to play the teacher, and frankly your not qualified to do that.

There are a number forum members who are head and shoulders above me on this forum, and I give them the respect they are do, however when it comes to the Buddhist Philosophy your certainly not one of them. If your only joined into discussions and asked questions or reponded in the way a fellow student would I would have no problem with your comments. Because that is what you are nothing but a student like most of us, your not above looking down upon anyone! As far what your friends and neighbors think of of you, that simple doesnt apply here at all!

I have already proven effectively that Buddhists are not taught to use proselytising at all, those who do follow the use of proselytising are not following Buddhas teaching and comments on the subject and they are not practicing Buddhism as the Buddha intented it to be practiced. Your welcome to opinion, but it is not supported by the Dharma or any legitimate Buddhist Sect. So beleive what you chose, and follow what you chose to, however that doesn't make your comments accurate or worthy of any contemplation at all!

Its very interesting that Buckes thought on Universal or Cosmic Consciousness perfectlt mirror your comments concerning this belief. Which is fine because when it comes to beliefs based upon a God figure I am very tolerant of those prectices. My comments to you are all based upon your comments conerning Buddhism, because they are not in anyway mainstream. They are more based upon your opinion than they are etched in reality. I would not even comment on that normally, yet to have the habit of trying to be a teacher of your beliefs or you criticize others beliefs because they dont agree with your's. Again if you say this isnt true I can go back and quote previous posts and prove it is. 

I would much rather get along with you, than argue with you on this topic. All that is required is for you act like a student and not a teacher hopefully you will contemplate this, its all up to you alone!

Peace Mr. Walker!:tu:

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually i do agree with that but read it literally  I am about 90% vegetarian   I haven't killed an animal for decades

Hi Walker

So did the 10% of your diet that isn't vegan did they sacrifice themselves for you or did you go to the supermarket?

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On 1/28/2022 at 1:13 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I understand who created the concept of Egaged Buddhism very well, and its comes directly from Zen Buddist tradition and the practice of mindfulness. The Buddhist Master Thich Nhat Hanh, who created Engaged Buddhism and he was also the foremost Zen Buddhist Master in the world until his recent passing. However, unless you have changed your views on Zen Buddhism I dont know why you would use either Zen, Mindfulness, and Engaged Buddhism into the conversation. Because you have criticized, Mindfulness and Zen Buddhist prectices on this forum many times. Do I need to refresh your memory, if so I can quote and repost many comments you have made previously on the subject on this forum, would you like me to do that? 

As far as your comments on killing someone, and it being against all Buddhist belief's that not correct. One of the most visible Buddhist Masters in the world today doesnt agree that if you are threaten by someone with death that you should not also try to kill that individual!

Image result for dalai lama quotes on killing to protect yourself

Lying and being deceitful is how your comments are veiwed by many members here, and they tell you how they feel openly. I agree it certainly does lead others to mistreat you, mistrust your comments and it does lead to a complete lack of Credibility and that is why people criticize you so often here you dont realize this?

Now, I do not necessarily prescribe to all of that because I have not known you long enough to have an opinion of you. 

I am not judging you only your comments and you are wong that I do understand the intent and the content of your comments. However when it comes Buddhism I do not agree with you at all because you often try to teach others according to your beleifs and preconceived notions not according to Buddhist Philosophy and your thought process concerning Buddhism is wrong! When you step into a coversation on the subject, you attempt to play the teacher, and frankly your not qualified to do that.

There are a number forum members who are head and shoulders above me on this forum, and I give them the respect they are do, however when it comes to the Buddhist Philosophy your certainly not one of them. If your only joined into discussions and asked questions or reponded in the way a fellow student would I would have no problem with your comments. Because that is what you are nothing but a student like most of us, your not above looking down upon anyone! As far what your friends and neighbors think of of you, that simple doesnt apply here at all!

I have already proven effectively that Buddhists are not taught to use proselytising at all, those who do follow the use of proselytising are not following Buddhas teaching and comments on the subject and they are not practicing Buddhism as the Buddha intented it to be practiced. Your welcome to opinion, but it is not supported by the Dharma or any legitimate Buddhist Sect. So beleive what you chose, and follow what you chose to, however that doesn't make your comments accurate or worthy of any contemplation at all!

Its very interesting that Buckes thought on Universal or Cosmic Consciousness perfectlt mirror your comments concerning this belief. Which is fine because when it comes to beliefs based upon a God figure I am very tolerant of those prectices. My comments to you are all based upon your comments conerning Buddhism, because they are not in anyway mainstream. They are more based upon your opinion than they are etched in reality. I would not even comment on that normally, yet to have the habit of trying to be a teacher of your beliefs or you criticize others beliefs because they dont agree with your's. Again if you say this isnt true I can go back and quote previous posts and prove it is. 

I would much rather get along with you, than argue with you on this topic. All that is required is for you act like a student and not a teacher hopefully you will contemplate this, its all up to you alone!

Peace Mr. Walker!:tu:

 

 

Ok then we are on the same page about Buddhism, with one major  disagreement 

I certainly was trained in mindfulness by my parents from infancy. I remember my first specific training by my mother when I was 3 or 4 and became aware of my inner  voices (mind) as a distinct entity  However i apparently skipped the need for meditation which s really only a technique to clear yur mind and become mindful 

Since childhood I have simply been mindful and, when i need to be more so, I direct my mind into the neural  pathways required for greater mindfulness

I dont criticise meditation For most people  it may be an essential step.   I just point out that the end goal can be achieved without it  and that, if you  see meditation as the end goal you limit all which lies beyond it 

I agree with you about killing There are Buddhists who kill.  However while seemingly  contradictory the teaching is really very similar to the christian one ie you shalt not kill "unlawfully"

Of course peole think i lie  The things I  write here about my life are beyond the experience of most, and many believe them to be impossible. It is easier to dismiss them as lies than consider the possibility of them being true   Sometimes I am wrong about something due to lack of knowledge (although this is rare)  
in real life, lying, like killing, may be necessary on rare occasions However on UM, where there are no real stakes involved, lying is pointless 

Believe it or not I don't think I have ever told a lie on UM (ie told something I know to be untrue as a truth. Apart from  a deep moral conviction that lying is harmful , what would be the point? 

Ironically, if I lied, people would not challenge me, because those lies would fit their experiences and world views.   I am not, and cannot be, responsible for how others view me I can only be responsible for living by the moral and ethical principles I was taught as a child.

If those bring me into conflict with others, then so be it.

I was raised to say and do whet was right (ie constructive and beneficial)  and never to worry about what others thought of me  That made my teenage years difficult but has stood me in good stead all my adult life. 

Indeed my life has been so wonderful and happy that i do suggest ways that others can also enjoy such a life, without the need for anger, fear, greed, envy, drugs alcohol etc  Tha  its part of my responsibility as a human being /adult and  one of the reasons I chose teaching as a life 

But that's all i do. Suggest and illustrate.

My life would  not suit others eg some would find it hard never to drink alcohol or to take drugs and most would find it hard work to eliminate desires anger hate etc . Yet those are the goals of Buddhism and many other faiths 

Bucke and I (and many others) had similar physical experiences (not beliefs) Thus we called it (this entity and state of connection)  the same thing  However i never  heard of bucke until i was in my fifties I had formulated an understanding based on decades of connection to the cosmic consciousness which is  similar to Bucke's 

Like almost all my views, my views on Buddhism are certainly not mainstream, yet I gave sources from  a variety o Buddhist  sources which confirm that other Buddhists hold similar views  to me. As long as your path produces peace and wellbeing, and does no harm to yourself or others,  I have no criticism of it  Except that it is not, and cannot be, the ONLY path. It is the one YOU have chosen . 

You are right about one thing.

While always a student i am primarily a teacher. I began teaching my younger siblings when i was about 5 and have never stopped 

I LOVE teaching (not just  facts but the abilty to be happy, constructive,  productive, and well in mind and body ) These days i tend to "teach" by questioning the assumptions and died on opinions or beliefs of others. 

One can only change the mind of another, by causing them to question their assumptions and beliefs. 

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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On 1/28/2022 at 1:17 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

So did the 10% of your diet that isn't vegan did they sacrifice themselves for you or did you go to the supermarket?

:) Part of my belief system is that all things should be undertaken in moderation because zealousness is harmful in itself. 

So I  do eat a little  meat  .

1 ive checked put our local abattoirs and butcher who supplies all our meat 

The y use modern  standards designed to minimise physical and emotional suffering.

2 My wife suffers from  anemia/iron deficiency She  has to eat a little meat and I eat what she eats

3 My concern is as much with the overalle environment and ecology as with individual animals 

The planet cannot sustain western levels of meat consumption (or of other resource use)   

Using many means,  I have reduced and maintained our environmental footprint from  that of a western one to tha t of a person in a developing country  

for example The footprint for the average Australian is 15 hectares whereas mine is around  the earths average of 2.8 Thats still not quite sustainable but it's the best i can do in our society  

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58 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok then we are on the same page about Buddhism, with one major  disagreement 

I certainly was trained in mindfulness by my parents from infancy. I remember my first specific training by my mother when I was 3 or 4 and became aware of my inner  voices (mind) as a distinct entity  However i apparently skipped the need for meditation which s really only a technique to clear yur mind and become mindful 

Since childhood I have simply been mindful and, when i need to be more so, I direct my mind into the neural  pathways required for greater mindfulness

I dont criticise meditation For most people  it may be an essential step.   I just point out that the end goal can be achieved without it  and that, if you  see meditation as the end goal you limit all which lies beyond it 

I agree with you about killing There are Buddhists who kill.  However while seemingly  contradictory the teaching is really very similar to the christian one ie you shalt not kill "unlawfully"

Of course peole think i lie  The things I  write here about my life are beyond the experience of most, and many believe them to be impossible. It is easier to dismiss them as lies than consider the possibility of them being true   Sometimes I am wrong about something due to lack of knowledge (although this is rare)  
in real life, lying, like killing, may be necessary on rare occasions However on UM, where there are no real stakes involved, lying is pointless 

Believe it or not I don't think I have ever told a lie on UM (ie told something I know to be untrue as a truth. Apart from  a deep moral conviction that lying is harmful , what would be the point? 

Ironically, if I lied, people would not challenge me, because those lies would fit their experiences and world views.   I am not, and cannot be, responsible for how others view me I can only be responsible for living by the moral and ethical principles I was taught as a child.

If those bring me into conflict with others, then so be it.

I was raised to say and do whet was right (ie constructive and beneficial)  and never to worry about what others thought of me  That made my teenage years difficult but has stood me in good stead all my adult life. 

Indeed my life has been so wonderful and happy that i do suggest ways that others can also enjoy such a life, without the need for anger, fear, greed, envy, drugs alcohol etc  Tha  its part of my responsibility as a human being /adult and  one of the reasons I chose teaching as a life 

But that's all i do. Suggest and illustrate.

My life would  not suit others eg some would find it hard never to drink alcohol or to take drugs and most would find it hard work to eliminate desires anger hate etc . Yet those are the goals of Buddhism and many other faiths 

Bucke and I (and many others) had similar physical experiences (not beliefs) Thus we called it (this entity and state of connection)  the same thing  However i never  heard of bucke until i was in my fifties I had formulated an understanding based on decades of connection to the cosmic consciousness which is  similar to Bucke's 

Like almost all my views, my views on Buddhism are certainly not mainstream, yet I gave sources from  a variety o Buddhist  sources which confirm that other Buddhists hold similar views  to me. As long as your path produces peace and wellbeing, and does no harm to yourself or others,  I have no criticism of it  Except that it is not, and cannot be, the ONLY path. It is the one YOU have chosen . 

You are right about one thing.

While always a student i am primarily a teacher. I began teaching my younger siblings when i was about 5 and have never stopped 

I LOVE teaching (not just  facts but the abilty to be happy, constructive,  productive, and well in mind and body ) These days i tend to "teach" by questioning the assumptions and died on opinions or beliefs of others. 

One can only change the mind of another, by causing them to question their assumptions and beliefs. 

 

Well Mr. Walker you obviously haven’t gotten anything out of my last post. I am sorry it didn’t help you better understand why you are constantly receiving negative feedback for others when you comment. It’s obvious to everyone you love to try and teach, however your lessons are not appreciated here. You always present your opinions from a position of extreme knowledge as if your head and shoulders above everyone else in the conversation. You views and comments concerning Buddhism certainly are not main stream they are however fringe in concept and belief.

As far as you practicing Buddhist mindfulness, it certainly is not apparent, so it appears you version of it is also fringe. As far as lying that is exactly what others think you do, as far as I am concerned I am not really interested one way or another. Until you learn to just be part of a conversation as an equal, you going to continue to have people responding to you in a negative manner. Being a teacher where every you live is a great, however here it is not appreciated so please not preach to me in future conversations, on this subject I am only speaking  for myself.

In summary since your unable or unwilling to understand what I tried to explain to you, carry on Mr. Walker this will be my last response to you.

Take care.

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What a difference a couple of inches makes... 

Quote

1py.gif

~

 

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13 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well Mr. Walker you obviously haven’t gotten anything out of my last post. I am sorry it didn’t help you better understand why you are constantly receiving negative feedback for others when you comment. It’s obvious to everyone you love to try and teach, however your lessons are not appreciated here. You always present your opinions from a position of extreme knowledge as if your head and shoulders above everyone else in the conversation. You views and comments concerning Buddhism certainly are not main stream they are however fringe in concept and belief.

As far as you practicing Buddhist mindfulness, it certainly is not apparent, so it appears you version of it is also fringe. As far as lying that is exactly what others think you do, as far as I am concerned I am not really interested one way or another. Until you learn to just be part of a conversation as an equal, you going to continue to have people responding to you in a negative manner. Being a teacher where every you live is a great, however here it is not appreciated so please not preach to me in future conversations, on this subject I am only speaking  for myself.

In summary since your unable or unwilling to understand what I tried to explain to you, carry on Mr. Walker this will be my last response to you.

Take care.

It is good use of discernment on your part to be able to marshal out the amount of BS and confabulation which is really the gist of all the majority of the posts.
 

A righteous “better than” I am so special diatribe evidences a massive ego that is simply not recognized as such. 
 

Letting go and moving on is a wise choice. :wub:

 


 


 

 

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15 hours ago, SHaYap said:

What a difference a couple of inches makes... 

~

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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On 1/21/2022 at 9:53 AM, Manwon Lender said:

So please Mr. Walker try following the Buddhist path for once in your life, and stop trying to convert people. That is a Christian practice not a Buddhist practice,

Excuse me, but Indian emperor Ashoka did just that: he sent Buddhist missionaries to the Mediterranean. Now that may have been long ago, but still.

And I know you will not like what I am going to say next, but.... why do you start so many threads about Buddhism?

I am not bothered by that, just asking.

And, as you always say: Peace, bro.

:)

Edited to add:

Just to make my point clear: I understand your enthousiasm concerning Buddhism. You want to scream it from the rooftops.

But the more you post about it, the more it looks like you want to convert people.

Personally I am kind of addicted to Sufism, the 'Idries Shah' version that is.

But I often decline posting tons about it, though I want to.

Oh, and crow intelligence. That's my other addiction.

Edited by Abramelin
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On 1/27/2022 at 6:43 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I understand who created the concept of Egaged Buddhism very well, and its comes directly from Zen Buddist tradition and the practice of mindfulness. The Buddhist Master Thich Nhat Hanh, who created Engaged Buddhism and he was also the foremost Zen Buddhist Master in the world until his recent passing. However, unless you have changed your views on Zen Buddhism I dont know why you would use either Zen, Mindfulness, and Engaged Buddhism into the conversation. Because you have criticized, Mindfulness and Zen Buddhist prectices on this forum many times. Do I need to refresh your memory, if so I can quote and repost many comments you have made previously on the subject on this forum, would you like me to do that? 

As far as your comments on killing someone, and it being against all Buddhist belief's that not correct. One of the most visible Buddhist Masters in the world today doesnt agree that if you are threaten by someone with death that you should not also try to kill that individual!

Image result for dalai lama quotes on killing to protect yourself

Lying and being deceitful is how your comments are veiwed by many members here, and they tell you how they feel openly. I agree it certainly does lead others to mistreat you, mistrust your comments and it does lead to a complete lack of Credibility and that is why people criticize you so often here you dont realize this?

Now, I do not necessarily prescribe to all of that because I have not known you long enough to have an opinion of you. 

I am not judging you only your comments and you are wong that I do understand the intent and the content of your comments. However when it comes Buddhism I do not agree with you at all because you often try to teach others according to your beleifs and preconceived notions not according to Buddhist Philosophy and your thought process concerning Buddhism is wrong! When you step into a coversation on the subject, you attempt to play the teacher, and frankly your not qualified to do that.

There are a number forum members who are head and shoulders above me on this forum, and I give them the respect they are do, however when it comes to the Buddhist Philosophy your certainly not one of them. If your only joined into discussions and asked questions or reponded in the way a fellow student would I would have no problem with your comments. Because that is what you are nothing but a student like most of us, your not above looking down upon anyone! As far what your friends and neighbors think of of you, that simple doesnt apply here at all!

I have already proven effectively that Buddhists are not taught to use proselytising at all, those who do follow the use of proselytising are not following Buddhas teaching and comments on the subject and they are not practicing Buddhism as the Buddha intented it to be practiced. Your welcome to opinion, but it is not supported by the Dharma or any legitimate Buddhist Sect. So beleive what you chose, and follow what you chose to, however that doesn't make your comments accurate or worthy of any contemplation at all!

Its very interesting that Buckes thought on Universal or Cosmic Consciousness perfectlt mirror your comments concerning this belief. Which is fine because when it comes to beliefs based upon a God figure I am very tolerant of those prectices. My comments to you are all based upon your comments conerning Buddhism, because they are not in anyway mainstream. They are more based upon your opinion than they are etched in reality. I would not even comment on that normally, yet to have the habit of trying to be a teacher of your beliefs or you criticize others beliefs because they dont agree with your's. Again if you say this isnt true I can go back and quote previous posts and prove it is. 

I would much rather get along with you, than argue with you on this topic. All that is required is for you act like a student and not a teacher hopefully you will contemplate this, its all up to you alone!

Peace Mr. Walker!:tu:

 

 

I thought that the Dalai Lama allowed for self-defense, but not to kill anyone. 

I found this:

But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dalai-gun/

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21 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well Mr. Walker you obviously haven’t gotten anything out of my last post. I am sorry it didn’t help you better understand why you are constantly receiving negative feedback for others when you comment. It’s obvious to everyone you love to try and teach, however your lessons are not appreciated here. You always present your opinions from a position of extreme knowledge as if your head and shoulders above everyone else in the conversation. You views and comments concerning Buddhism certainly are not main stream they are however fringe in concept and belief.

As far as you practicing Buddhist mindfulness, it certainly is not apparent, so it appears you version of it is also fringe. As far as lying that is exactly what others think you do, as far as I am concerned I am not really interested one way or another. Until you learn to just be part of a conversation as an equal, you going to continue to have people responding to you in a negative manner. Being a teacher where every you live is a great, however here it is not appreciated so please not preach to me in future conversations, on this subject I am only speaking  for myself.

In summary since your unable or unwilling to understand what I tried to explain to you, carry on Mr. Walker this will be my last response to you.

Take care.

I read, understood, and got, your post.

I just disagree with it. Indeed it is factually wrong in places.  Ive studied and taught Buddhism for 50 years  So what i know never came from  the internet 

I simply use the internet to show that my points are shared  by others Ps i also have a detailed knowldge of Christianity Judaism and Islam and only a little less understanding of many other faiths 

I don't follow any of them and you could mount the same criticisms of me on any of them (Indeed while i live largely a christian life I because that is the faith of my community and nation, I  am criticised here for not being a real christian) I live an amalgam of beliefs, beginning with humanism,  which suits me best, and empowers me most to help others 

True its not Buddhist mindfulness Rather it's  "natural" mindfulness, combined with modern psychological  mindfulness.

I was self taught through my parents as a child, but then took it up again in psychology,

In the last decade I've completed a couple of online university courses such a s mind gym , to help me counsel others . 

My point was that, while meditation can prove a useful tool in achieving grater mindfulness, it is not an essential tool  Modern cognitive behaviour therapies offer several alternatives 

Preaching  is very difernt to teaching but,  being adults, while my role is to teach that's where it ends.

There is no compulsion on another to listen. I have fulfilled my moral and ethical obligations as a human being ,   by presenting my arguments and opinions 

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5 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Excuse me, but Indian emperor Ashoka did just that: he sent Buddhist missionaries to the Mediterranean. Now that may have been long ago, but still.

And I know you will not like what I am going to say next, but.... why do you start so many threads about Buddhism?

I am not bothered by that, just asking.

And, as you always say: Peace, bro.

:)

Edited to add:

Just to make my point clear: I understand your enthousiasm concerning Buddhism. You want to scream it from the rooftops.

But the more you post about it, the more it looks like you want to convert people.

Personally I am kind of addicted to Sufism, the 'Idries Shah' version that is.

But I often decline posting tons about it, though I want to.

Oh, and crow intelligence. That's my other addiction.

Why not pm him about the threads he starts. 

 

If you have something to add based on the Op, we would all love to read it otherwise, why not start a thread on Sufism. I for one would love to hear about it. 

Edited by Sherapy
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5 hours ago, GlitterRose said:

I thought that the Dalai Lama allowed for self-defense, but not to kill anyone. 

I found this:

But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dalai-gun/

Thanks for clearing that up.

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6 hours ago, GlitterRose said:

I thought that the Dalai Lama allowed for self-defense, but not to kill anyone. 

I found this:

But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, he said, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dalai-gun/

Good point Rose, nice seeing you post. It has been awhile. 

Edited by Sherapy
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On 1/29/2022 at 6:22 PM, Mr Walker said:

:) Part of my belief system is that all things should be undertaken in moderation because zealousness is harmful in itself. 

So I  do eat a little  meat  .

1 ive checked put our local abattoirs and butcher who supplies all our meat 

The y use modern  standards designed to minimise physical and emotional suffering.

2 My wife suffers from  anemia/iron deficiency She  has to eat a little meat and I eat what she eats

3 My concern is as much with the overalle environment and ecology as with individual animals 

The planet cannot sustain western levels of meat consumption (or of other resource use)   

Using many means,  I have reduced and maintained our environmental footprint from  that of a western one to tha t of a person in a developing country  

for example The footprint for the average Australian is 15 hectares whereas mine is around  the earths average of 2.8 Thats still not quite sustainable but it's the best i can do in our society  

Hi Walker

Whether it is meat or veggies mass production is cause and effect that we have seen many times in the past. We know that inserting some plants into new global locations affects biosystems and negative impacts have been noted. It's good that you are not wasteful but it truth having 80 pages open on your browser has negative effects on the system and requires more power resources of your computer. There are likely many things that you do not consider as well but will leave it at that as it is not the thread topic.

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Perhaps human priests are afraid of the competition from animal spiritual masters. :P

 


Practice love on animals first; they react better and more sensitively. ~ George Gurdjieff

Our animal friends’ non-reactive and forgiving natures can teach us positive spiritual lessons on a daily basis. ~ Eckhart Tolle

 

 

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On 2/2/2022 at 7:31 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Whether it is meat or veggies mass production is cause and effect that we have seen many times in the past. We know that inserting some plants into new global locations affects biosystems and negative impacts have been noted. It's good that you are not wasteful but it truth having 80 pages open on your browser has negative effects on the system and requires more power resources of your computer. There are likely many things that you do not consider as well but will leave it at that as it is not the thread topic.

Ah but I use solar power and batteries :) 

The earth simply cannot sustain the present consumption of meat proteins 

The long term solution is a significant reduction in the human population, allowing for all to have a  better standard of living  but, in the short term we either all reduce meat consumption or recognise the inequality between  those who can afford to and those who cannot;  those who die from eating too much, and thise who die from not having enough to eat.

Actually, life style choices, and how we use those resources (eg for children or pets) is the topic of the thread.  

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BTW, with respect to the thread, Pope Francis can kiss my left butt cheek. I honestly don’t give a flying flip about what he thinks because every Christmas he wears that outfit….you know the one….it looks like something from the 12th century well fed.  Anyway, I’d rather hear what the Dali Lama says….number one.

And number two….I think we could do with more pets and less people in this crazy ass world as Insee it.  FWIW.

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