UM-Bot Posted January 11, 2022 #1 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Prof Don Arnold and colleagues have been attempting to solve the long-running mystery of where our memories are stored. https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/354346/where-are-memories-stored-in-the-brain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 11, 2022 #2 Share Posted January 11, 2022 I'm thinking these studies are under the assumption that memory is locally stored. Another theory of memory is that storage is non-local and the activity in the physical brain is the physical corollaries of memory connections and retrieval from an Akashic record. Akashic records From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the religion of theosophy and the philosophical school called anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of all universal events, thoughts, words, emotions and intent ever to have occurred in the past, present, or future in terms of all entities and life forms, not just human. They are believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the mental plane. Types of anecdotal evidence suggesting the non-local storage of information would be experiences like a Near Death Experience where a person has full knowledge of who they were and who those around them are even though there is no physical activity occurring in the memory associated areas of the physical brain. In Theosophical thought this would be because the person in their astral/mental bodies has continued access to the mental plane of nature where memory is actually stored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbarosso Posted January 12, 2022 #3 Share Posted January 12, 2022 i quite agree with the idea that memories are stored in the cosmic cloud. this universe is just bits of information, there is no actual matter. i believe that our consciousness is separate from our physical body and our brain is there as a sort of "wifi" antenna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freez1 Posted January 12, 2022 #4 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Definitely worth more investigation and if it is maybe artificial intelligence just got an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonman Posted January 12, 2022 #5 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) The concept of memories being stored "remotely" is, frankly, really stupid and makes absolutely no sense from a biological and evolutionary standpoint. The brain is a complex organ that has evolved to store incredible amounts of information, not pull it from some "magic realm". Brain injuries that affect short and long term memories happen. Things like amnesia happen. Certain memories can be lost while others are not affected. There's way too much evidence against such nonsense. Just because we can't pinpoint the exact area in the brain where memories are stored doesn't mean we need to resort to magic to explain it. Now, if you believe the universe is a simulation (I do not), then it really doesn't matter either way, everything is "stored remotely". A simulated brain has simulated memories and both are just stored in computer memory. Edited January 12, 2022 by moonman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlookerofmayhem Posted January 14, 2022 #6 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 1:04 PM, papageorge1 said: I'm thinking these studies are under the assumption that memory is locally stored. That's not an assumption. It's literally a demonstrable fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #7 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said: It's literally a demonstrable fact. Then let's see the demonstration and end the controversy once and for all. Edited January 14, 2022 by papageorge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #8 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 11:02 PM, moonman said: The concept of memories being stored "remotely" is, frankly, really stupid and makes absolutely no sense from a biological and evolutionary standpoint. The brain is a complex organ that has evolved to store incredible amounts of information, not pull it from some "magic realm". Brain injuries that affect short and long term memories happen. Things like amnesia happen. Certain memories can be lost while others are not affected. The argument from the other side is that brain injuries effect the ability to retrieve non-local memory. And the realm is the mental plane of nature which is natural and not 'magical'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlookerofmayhem Posted January 14, 2022 #9 Share Posted January 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Then let's see the demonstration and end the controversy once and for all. There is no "controversy" that memory is stored in the brain. There is a controversy about whether it is stored or originated anywhere else. https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain-basics/memory/where-are-memories-stored https://www.livescience.com/32798-how-are-memories-stored-in-the-brain.html https://www.pnas.org/content/93/24/13438 https://www.brainline.org/article/memory-and-brain-injury There is, beyond any reasonable doubt, that memories and brains are unequivocally linked together. Why do you think your eyes, ears, mouth and nose are right next to your brain? Why does your nervous system start and end at the brain. All the stimuli somebody experiences in their life is processed by the brain. The brain is arguably one of the most complex things in existence that we know of. There have been countless examples of how brain injuries effect not only memory, but the physical functionalities. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted January 14, 2022 #10 Share Posted January 14, 2022 My thoughts (which are probably wrong) on this is that memories are stored as "chunks". With each sense having a part of any given memory. Which may explain why our remembrance of them can be glitchy at times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #11 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said: There is no "controversy" that memory is stored in the brain. Well, here's a controversy starter to start some mayhem: Are Memories Really Stored In The Brain Excerpt: The possibility of a radically new mechanism to explain the functioning of human long-term memory is considered. After reviewing orthodox nodal and connectionist (internal) memory models, an alternative model is proposed. This model assumes at the outset that memories are not stored in the brain at all. Rather it is proposed that the brain operates more like an aerial rather than an internal memory storage device. Edited January 14, 2022 by papageorge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlookerofmayhem Posted January 14, 2022 #12 Share Posted January 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Well, here's a controversy starter to start some mayhem: Non-locality in Nature and Cognition Yeah. That's a controversial hypothesis. It doesn't change what is known and has been discovered about how the brain works. I don't believe for a second that you understand much of anything discussed in the essay. Your statement that it is merely an assumption that memories are stored in the brain is completely wrong. That's what pretty much the opposite of what all the evidence available points to at this moment. The essay deals with non-locality. In your own words, what does non-locality have to do with the storage of memories? Your statement is analogous to saying that the shape of the Earth is controversial because some people say it's flat. And what is with throwing out a link to a 6,594 word essay and not responding to any of the points or links from my post, yet expecting me to read a lengthy essay to extract your point? Most of the essay has nothing to do with memory storage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #13 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, papageorge1 said: Rather it is proposed that the brain operates more like an aerial rather than an internal memory storage device. So to what part of the electro-magnetic spectrum do memories belong, according to you, Papa? Maybe I am wrong, but I think I remember some sort of experiment, using a Faraday cage, to see the effect of blocking electro-magnetic waves on memory. The memory of the person in the experiment wasn't blocked in any way. Believe me Papa, I once had similar thoughts (NOT convictions) that something you proposed was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #14 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Another thing I still wonder about is people being 'influenced' by the transplant they received from some donor. There are a lot of weird stories about that circling around on the internet. The only story that made me think twice, is the one a collegue told me, many years ago. He was in hospital for an appendicitis, a life threating situation, an it was decided he should have a blood transfusion. He had been a chain smoker before, but after that blood transfusion he never cared for a smoke anymore. Was it caused by the cleaning of his blood - in that case it would be a great cure for smokers - or what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #15 Share Posted January 14, 2022 The only thing that comes to mind is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell But that's only about the immune system. Or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #16 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said: Yeah. That's a controversial hypothesis. It doesn't change what is known and has been discovered about how the brain works. I don't believe for a second that you understand much of anything discussed in the essay. Your statement that it is merely an assumption that memories are stored in the brain is completely wrong. That's what pretty much the opposite of what all the evidence available points to at this moment. The essay deals with non-locality. In your own words, what does non-locality have to do with the storage of memories? Your statement is analogous to saying that the shape of the Earth is controversial because some people say it's flat. And what is with throwing out a link to a 6,594 word essay and not responding to any of the points or links from my post, yet expecting me to read a lengthy essay to extract your point? Most of the essay has nothing to do with memory storage. OK, sorry Mayhem, apparently you responded to my post before I was finished editing it. My bad. Please see the final version of that post. Edited January 14, 2022 by papageorge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #17 Share Posted January 14, 2022 32 minutes ago, Abramelin said: So to what part of the electro-magnetic spectrum do memories belong, according to you, Papa? Maybe I am wrong, but I think I remember some sort of experiment, using a Faraday cage, to see the effect of blocking electro-magnetic waves on memory. The memory of the person in the experiment wasn't blocked in any way. Believe me Papa, I once had similar thoughts (NOT convictions) that something you proposed was possible. I will here re-post part of my initial comment: Akashic records From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the religion of theosophy and the philosophical school called anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of all universal events, thoughts, words, emotions and intent ever to have occurred in the past, present, or future in terms of all entities and life forms, not just human. They are believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the mental plane. The Astral plane and the even more subtle Mental plane are in dimensions beyond the physical three-dimensions and are not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. I do not think a Faraday cage or other physical interference would have any effect on the Mental plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #18 Share Posted January 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: I will here re-post part of my initial comment: Akashic records From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the religion of theosophy and the philosophical school called anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of all universal events, thoughts, words, emotions and intent ever to have occurred in the past, present, or future in terms of all entities and life forms, not just human. They are believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the mental plane. The Astral plane and the even more subtle Mental plane are in dimensions beyond the physical three-dimensions and are not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. I do not think a Faraday cage or other physical interference would have any effect on the Mental plane. That all sounds very interesting, but what proof can you come up with? It is just an appealing explanation, right? No proof whatsoever. Nada. And that is the main problem here: science is seeking for answers that in the end prove to be flawed, so the ancients must be right. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #19 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Abramelin said: That all sounds very interesting, but what proof can you come up with? It is just an appealing explanation, right? No proof whatsoever. No physical proof can be provided at this time for things beyond the physical, in fact in that same very first post I presented evidence I considered supportive/suggestive of the theory. I'll re-post: Types of anecdotal evidence suggesting the non-local storage of information would be experiences like a Near Death Experience where a person has full knowledge of who they were and who those around them are even though there is no physical activity occurring in the memory associated areas of the physical brain. In Theosophical thought this would be because the person in their astral/mental bodies has continued access to the mental plane of nature where memory is actually stored. 4 minutes ago, Abramelin said: And that is the main problem here: science is seeking for answers that in the end prove to be flawed, so the ancients must be right. Right? No, but the ancients and alternative theorists may present ideas worthy of further consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #20 Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: anecdotal evidence Now thàt is the problem here. People experience things they can't explain. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #21 Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Abramelin said: Now thàt is the problem here. People experience things they can't explain. Period. I don't understand the problem. What is wrong with developing new theories to help understand what we currently can't explain? Seems like natural human scientific curiosity to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #22 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: I don't understand the problem. What is wrong with developing new theories to help understand what we currently can't explain? Seems like natural human scientific curiosity to me. What makes your 'theory' a theory? Sure, your idea is the result of human curiosity, but that doesn't make it a theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory Edited January 14, 2022 by Abramelin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 14, 2022 #23 Share Posted January 14, 2022 9 minutes ago, Abramelin said: What makes your 'theory' a theory? Sure, your idea is the result of human curiosity, but that doesn't make it a theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory Really? Word play now? Let's call it an 'explanatory model'. Now what's wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #24 Share Posted January 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Really? Word play now? Let's call it an 'explanatory model'. Now what's wrong? An explanatory model? We are part of a simulation. Thàt's an explanatory model too. We humans can make up any fancy fantasy, but that is just that: a phantasy. Maybe we are all part of the world of Narnia. Get it? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 14, 2022 #25 Share Posted January 14, 2022 You don't, heh. Never mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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