Federal Judge Finds Trumps actions during the Capital Insurrection actionable for the crimes

[Grim Reaper 6]

'Let's stick with the facts': A federal judge rebuked Trump's lawyer's claim that he urged his supporters to be peaceful on January 6: 

US District Judge Amit Mehta also rejected one lawyer's claim that Trump urged his supporters to be peaceful on that day, telling the attorney to "stick with the facts." During a court hearing Monday, Mehta said that for a "two-hour period" on the day of the siege, Trump did not "take to Twitter or to any other type of communication and say, 'Stop. Get out of the Capitol. What you are doing is not what I wanted you to do.'" The president cannot be subject to judicial action for any sort of damages for failing to do something," Binnall said.

But that statement was outweighed, Mehta said, by Trump's earlier calls to "fight like hell" against the 2020 election results. Mehta said there was no doubt "threats" and "intimidation" were used on the day of the insurrection. He also said the main question was whether Trump's actions and statements incited the violence. https://www.businessinsider.com/judge-obliterates-trump-lawyer-claim-peaceful-protest-capitol-riot-2022-

Federal judge says Trump has responsibility for January 6, calling rioter a 'pawn'

A federal judge suggested Friday that former President Donald Trump had some responsibility for the January 6 attack on the Capitol and that rioters were pawns provoked into action. Speaking at sentencing hearing for rioter John Lolos, the judge said rallygoers like him were "called to Washington, DC, by an elected official, prompted to walk to the Capitol by an elected official." Judge Amit Mehta called individuals who stormed the building "a pawn in the game played by people who know better.

People like Mr. Lolos were told lies, were told falsehoods, were told the election was stolen when it was not," Mehta said. "Regrettably, people like Mr. Lolos who were told those lies took it to heart. And they are the ones paying the consequences." "Those who created the conditions that lead to Mr. Lolos' conduct have in no meaningful measure been held accountable," he said. "You were a pawn. You were a pawn in the game played by people who know better."

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/19/politics/judge-blames-trump-riot/index.html

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[ChrLzs]

Let's take a moment to look at what this federal court judge has said...  And consider how that will effect ongoing judgements. - allow me to edit it a little and highlight the key words...

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

A federal judge suggested Friday that former President Donald Trump had some responsibility for the January 6 attack on the Capitol and that rioters were pawns provoked into action. 
... the judge said rallygoers .. were "called to Washington, DC, by an elected official {Trump}, prompted to walk to the Capitol by an elected official {Trump}"
... "people .. were told lies, were told falsehoods, were told the election was stolen when it was not," {Judge} Mehta said. "Regrettably, people .. who were told those lies took it to heart. And they are the ones paying the consequences."
... "Those who created the conditions that lead to Mr. Lolos' conduct have in no meaningful measure been held accountable," he said. "You were a pawn. You were a pawn in the game played by people who know better."

Interesting that a federal judge clearly says Trump told lies, that the whole election fraud / stolen thing was also a lie, and that Trump (and others) have yet to be held accountable.  Given the number of Trump supporters hereabouts, I wonder how they feel about that, and being called "pawns"...  

[Grim Reaper 6]

19 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Let's take a moment to look at what this federal court judge has said...  And consider how that will effect ongoing judgements. - allow me to edit it a little and highlight the key words...

Interesting that a federal judge clearly says Trump told lies, that the whole election fraud / stolen thing was also a lie, and that Trump (and others) have yet to be held accountable.  Given the number of Trump supporters hereabouts, I wonder how they feel about that, and being called "pawns"...  

Have you noticed how quite it is concerning our topics, I believe their entire Universe just exploded! 

But, what is most sad it those people are so controlled by him and the boot licking Republican leadership that enabled him that sadly some of them may never recover from this! I just hope they don’t do anything really stupid, if you know what, I mean!

[itsnotoutthere]

When your party wants you to lie but you know it would be embarrassing to tell such an obvious one.

When are these people going to be held accountable.

Edited January 14, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

When your party wants you to lie but you know it would be embarrassing to tell such an obvious one.

Well Trump has had no problem lying, in fact he thought he was a professional at it. But the walls are falling down and the Rats are jumping off the sinking ship, today has been a bad day for Donny. It’s been proven he was involved in falsely trying to manipulate the election through the submission of fraudulent documents and now a Federal Judge finds he was guilty of creating the Capital Insurrection. What are you going do when he gets locked up, and even if he doesn’t his days in politics are over, so what will you do now?

[godnodog]

42 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Have you noticed how quite it is concerning our topics, I believe their entire Universe just exploded! 

But, what is most sad it those people are so controlled by him and the boot licking Republican leadership that enabled him that sadly some of them may never recover from this! I just hope they don’t do anything really stupid, if you know what, I mean!

Its still very early in the US

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Its still very early in the US

My friend I am retired US Military living in South Korea, it’s 8:40 pm here.

[godnodog]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

My friend I am retired US Military living in South Korea, it’s 8:40 pm here.

and its 11:40 am where I live (western EU)

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, godnodog said:

and its 11:40 am where I live (western EU)

Wow we are living in some different time zones, I normally don’t sleep until around 12:00 am and sometimes later depending upon how much pain I am dealing with on that day. If I get 5 hours sleep a night that’s about as good as it gets, but hey life goes on my friend!

[el midgetron]

I was watching the CNN video and thinking about how this judge was reflecting back to CNN the narrative that CNN has been promoting since the 6th. It struck me like an infinite loop of self gratification and then they wheeled out Jeffrey Toobin…… 

 

[spartan max2]

Eh, it will just move up to the supreme court and get shot down.

I think Trump wanted it to get a little out of hand.

But I don't think he said anything that could explicitly prove that, without having to set a very loose, vague judicial precedent for what it means to incite a riot. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by spartan max2

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Eh, it will just move up to the supreme court and get shot down.

I think Trump wanted it to get a little out of hand.

But I don't think he said anything that could explicitly prove that, without having to set a very loose, vague judicial precedent for what it means to incite a riot. 

Which makes me wonder.... How did the ever convict Manson?  He personally didn't kill anyone and I am fairly certain noone recorded him telling people to do it.

[el midgetron]

38 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Which makes me wonder.... How did the ever convict Manson?  He personally didn't kill anyone and I am fairly certain noone recorded him telling people to do it.

How I remember it is that Manson gave his flunkies specific instructions to commit the murders. Some of his followers testified that the murders were conducted per Manson’s instructions. Not quite the same circumstances of the 6th. 

[+OverSword]

5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Have you noticed how quite it is concerning our topics, I believe their entire Universe just exploded! 

Seriously?  5,000 "this is the end of trump" threads that never pan out and this is just one more   It gets boring.  When he's convicted, then I'll believe it.

[+OverSword]

2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Eh, it will just move up to the supreme court and get shot down.

I think Trump wanted it to get a little out of hand.

But I don't think he said anything that could explicitly prove that, without having to set a very loose, vague judicial precedent for what it means to incite a riot. 

Unless/until they can find some emails of trump or his staff directing promise keepers or proud boys to break into the capital this is another non-thread, and that judge is a waste of a bench.

[+Desertrat56]

5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Wow we are living in some different time zones, I normally don’t sleep until around 12:00 am and sometimes later depending upon how much pain I am dealing with on that day. If I get 5 hours sleep a night that’s about as good as it gets, but hey life goes on my friend!

When you posted this it was 5:30 am in my part of the U.S.

[Golden Duck]

6 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

When your party wants you to lie but you know it would be embarrassing to tell such an obvious one.

When are these people going to be held accountable.

Beth Williams is Republican.

[Vorg]

Trump has several lawsuits against him related to the Capital riots. 

In court, hopefully, a smart prosecutor would back up a few months and show all the things Trump did to try and overturn his loss, before the Capital riot in an effort to show it came about.

From calling and pressuring many states he lost to overturn Biden's win or not certify it, to dismissing AG Bill Barr who would not go along with his fraudulent election claims and telling his new Acting AG to "Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen." 

Show that he even went to court in an attempt to stop states to overturn the results.

And then show that the date chosen, January 6th, was a date that was chosen as his last attempt to overturn his election loss to Joe Biden because the Congressional certification of the electoral votes, headed by Senate President Mike Pence was commencing that day.

Show that Trump said, "If Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election."

Show that only Congressional authority Mike Pence was granted was to count the votes.

Show that, Trump did indeed call people to D.C on January 6th and did direct the crowd to the Capital that day, regardless of what he said that day to an event called "STOP THE STEAL," after months of claiming the election was "STOLEN."

Show that the crowd was fired up by words of all who spoke that day including "fight like hell" among many others spoken.

Show social media transcripts of what those who would be in attendance that day hoped to accomplish. (Many show that they did indeed plan to "stop a perceived steal.")

Show to a jury that after all attempts to overturn his election results failed, he turned to the people on a day he chose, as the last possible attempt to overturn his election loss by pressuring Congress into rejecting serval states congressional certifications which would have (in his mind) made him the winner.

 

Only a fool would claim Trump is innocent, and not at all responsible for what happened that day.
 

 

[spartan max2]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Which makes me wonder.... How did the ever convict Manson?  He personally didn't kill anyone and I am fairly certain noone recorded him telling people to do it.

Idk that case really. I know it's a common problem though which is why they had to get Al Capone on tax fraud haha

 

[spartan max2]

31 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Trump has several lawsuits against him related to the Capital riots. 

In court, hopefully, a smart prosecutor would back up a few months and show all the things Trump did to try and overturn his loss, before the Capital riot in an effort to show it came about.

From calling and pressuring many states he lost to overturn Biden's win or not certify it, to dismissing AG Bill Barr who would not go along with his fraudulent election claims and telling his new Acting AG to "Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen." 

Show that he even went to court in an attempt to stop states to overturn the results.

And then show that the date chosen, January 6th, was a date that was chosen as his last attempt to overturn his election loss to Joe Biden because the Congressional certification of the electoral votes, headed by Senate President Mike Pence was commencing that day.

Show that Trump said, "If Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election."

Show that only Congressional authority Mike Pence was granted was to count the votes.

Show that, Trump did indeed call people to D.C on January 6th and did direct the crowd to the Capital that day, regardless of what he said that day to an event called "STOP THE STEAL," after months of claiming the election was "STOLEN."

Show that the crowd was fired up by words of all who spoke that day including "fight like hell" among many others spoken.

Show social media transcripts of what those who would be in attendance that day hoped to accomplish. (Many show that they did indeed plan to "stop a perceived steal.")

Show to a jury that after all attempts to overturn his election results failed, he turned to the people on a day he chose, as the last possible attempt to overturn his election loss by pressuring Congress into rejecting serval states congressional certifications which would have (in his mind) made him the winner.

 

Only a fool would claim Trump is innocent, and not at all responsible for what happened that day.
 

 

As you know, I certainly agree with you about trump trying to steal the election and I do think he wanted a riot on Jan 6.

However, in terms of the courts, with all the stuff you listed which part was illegal?

You are allowed to say an election was stolen.

You are allowed to schedule a protest in front of the Whitehouse on a day of a significant vote.

Politicians often used "Battel" "fight", and "war" when talking about political fights. 

Pressuring the VP could be chargeable if they find more than statements in public speeches, but stuff behind closed doors as well.

I just don't see which law the court could really pin it on him without setting a vague precedent of what counts as inciting a riot.

[+Desertrat56]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

As you know, I certainly agree with you about trump trying to steal the election and I do think he wanted a riot on Jan 6.

However, in terms of the courts, with all the stuff you listed which part was illegal?

You are allowed to say an election was stolen.

You are allowed to schedule a protest in front of the Whitehouse on a day of a significant vote.

Politicians often used "Battel" "fight", and "war" when talking about political fights. 

Pressuring the VP could be chargeable if they find more than statements in public speeches, but stuff behind closed doors as well.

I just don't see which law the court could really pin it on him without setting a vague precedent of what counts as inciting a riot.

Normal people are allowed, but the president or members of congress should not be allowed any of that.  

[Vorg]

2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

As you know, I certainly agree with you about trump trying to steal the election and I do think he wanted a riot on Jan 6.

However, in terms of the courts, with all the stuff you listed which part was illegal?

You are allowed to say an election was stolen.

You are allowed to schedule a protest in front of the Whitehouse on a day of a significant vote.

Politicians often used "Battel" "fight", and "war" when talking about political fights. 

Pressuring the VP could be chargeable if they find more than statements in public speeches, but stuff behind closed doors as well.

I just don't see which law the court could really pin it on him without setting a vague precedent of what counts as inciting a riot.

Basically he tried to stop Biden's win in every possible way he could leading up to January 6th and have himself declared winner.

For him to claim he had no intention of January 6th becoming his last attempt  to stop Biden's win just does not jive with what happened prior to, and on the the day of the Congressional certification.

That is what I would show a jury.

[Golden Duck]

4 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

As you know, I certainly agree with you about trump trying to steal the election and I do think he wanted a riot on Jan 6.

However, in terms of the courts, with all the stuff you listed which part was illegal?

You are allowed to say an election was stolen.

You are allowed to schedule a protest in front of the Whitehouse on a day of a significant vote.

Politicians often used "Battel" "fight", and "war" when talking about political fights. 

Pressuring the VP could be chargeable if they find more than statements in public speeches, but stuff behind closed doors as well.

I just don't see which law the court could really pin it on him without setting a vague precedent of what counts as inciting a riot.

They're seeking damages not a criminal conviction.

Was Trump acting in an official capacity, or for personal gain?  Was it the duty of POTUS?  Does it meet the expection of sevice of high office?

[ChrLzs]

19 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Does it meet the expectation of service of high office?

You're questioning whether Trump met expectations?  He met mine perfectly and dead accurately, indeed exceeded them - rather like stuffing hundreds of purebred pigeons in the pigeonhole I had created. 

[Golden Duck]

2 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

You're questioning whether Trump met expectations?  He met mine perfectly and dead accurately, indeed exceeded them - rather like stuffing hundreds of purebred pigeons in the pigeonhole I had created. 

We're talking about Trump's course of conduct on 6 January 2020.  Did it meet the standard you expect of high office?

I'm certain I know your answer.

Compare the actions of Trump to Pence.  Only one was carrying out official duties.