Why did scientists suppress the lab-leak theory?

[itsnotoutthere]

In December 2019 there was an outbreak in China of a novel bat-borne SARS-like coronavirus a few miles from the world’s leading laboratory for collecting, studying and manipulating novel bat-borne SARS-like coronaviruses. We were assured by leading scientists in China, the US and the UK that this really was a coincidence, even when the nine closest relatives of the new virus turned up in the freezer of the laboratory in question, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Now we know what those leading scientists really thought. Emails exchanged between them after a conference call on 1 February 2020, and only now forced into the public domain by Republicans in the US Congress, show that they not only thought the virus might have leaked from a lab, but they also went much further in private. They thought the genome sequence of the new virus showed a strong likelihood of having been deliberately manipulated or accidentally mutated in the lab. Yet later they drafted an article for a scientific journal arguing that the suggestion not just of a manipulated virus, but even of an accidental spill, could be confidently dismissed and was a crackpot conspiracy theory.

 

Jeremy Farrar – who organised the call on 1 February with Patrick Vallance, Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci and a Who’s Who of virology – had already spilled a few of the beans in his book, Spike, published last year. He wrote that at the start of February 2020 he thought there was a 50 per cent chance the virus was engineered, while Kristian Andersen of the Scripps Research Institute was at 60-70 per cent and Eddie Holmes of Sydney University put it at 80 per cent. But some time after the call they all changed their mind. Why? They have never troubled us with an answer.

 

The emails unveiled this week reveal no good scientific reason at all for why these leading virologists changed their minds and became deniers rather than believers in even the remote possibility of a lab leak, all in just a few days in February 2020. No new data, no new arguments. But they do very clearly reveal a blatant political reason for the volte-face.

 

In August 2020 Kristian Andersen and Robert Garry were among the lead investigators to receive $8.9million to study emerging infectious diseases, in a grant from Anthony Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, part of Francis Collins’s National Institutes of Health.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/01/12/why-did-scientists-suppress-the-lab-leak-theory/

 

 

[+OverSword]

Quote

Why did scientists suppress the lab-leak theory?

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

[itsnotoutthere]

21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

"Speculating about a lab leak, said Ron Fouchier, a Dutch researcher, might ‘do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular’. Francis Collins was pithier, worrying about ‘doing great potential harm to science and international harmony’. Contradicting Donald Trump, protecting science’s reputation at all costs and keeping in with those who dole out large grants are pretty strong incentives to change one’s mind."

[+and-then]

For over two years this has gone on and no one at the top will YET admit they've done anything wrong, not even an admission of making a mistake.  When the Republicans regain subpoena power, there should be a reckoning.  I'm not fool enough to believe there aren't some of THEM involved in this as well.  Nor am I simple enough to believe the FBI, CIA, et.al. will suddenly do the right thing. 

But what such demands for documentation CAN accomplish is the visual of watching these thugs scramble around, obfuscate, and lie even when their lies have become obvious.  They control the government and a huge portion of the Federal Bench but organizations like Veritas and Judicial Watch will always be able to rely on those who are sick of the corruption, or even just those in the know, who get ill-treated and decide to get some vengeance on the boss.  

Ultimately, those who funded and took part in this work have the blood of millions on their hands.

[Setton]

54 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

Yes, because the top virologists on the UK base their conclusions on how much it will annoy the president of the US 

 

 

Get over yourselves 

[acute]

Can someone explain to me, preferably in English, what difference it makes if Covid-19 came from the lab in Wuhan?

[papageorge1]

My thought is that the rampant anti-Trump sector knee-jerk rejected it becuase Trump suggested it.

Plus, at some level their anti-Trump/Bad Conservative America bias is more fashionable than an anti-China attitude. It's like the only villains can be Trump or Conservative America.

 

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

A third reason, maybe it wasn't suppressed but rather proven false.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

Trump said it happened, he also said it wasn’t dangerous, it’s like a Flu, that America had nothing to worry about all have been proven to be lies.

Trump was briefed in Mid-November 2019 of a Viral outbreak in China that was out of control, US Intelligence Agencies and Military Intelligence briefed Trump in his daily brief in Mid-November 2019 Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event,". what did Trump do nothing until approximately February 2020, and by the time he acted the infection was entering the US from both Europe on the East Coast through New York, and the West from China by the time he partially stop flights from China the Virus was Spreading across the country and it was far to late. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=7003127

Now here is what your Lab Leak Theory in the toilet, the Viral Infection did not start in Wuhan the first cases were far out in Hubie Provences country side no where near the city, so what are you saying it leaked from the Lab then Jumped over the city causing no infections and started infecting farmers in the country side?

Here is a Peer Reviewed Scientific Journal that goes in to detail about where the Virus first started and how early it began and the December theory it no longer considered and neither is the so called starting point in the city of Wuhan or the Seafood Market.

“”Uncertainty still persists around the origin of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and the resulting COVID-19 disease. While an origin as a zoonotic spillover in the Huanan Seafood Market, Wuhan, sometime during early December, 2019, has been proposed [1], this has been called into question [2–4]. This uncertainty arises due to both the presence of earlier potential COVID-19 cases, and the fact that most phylogenetic analyses put the most recent ancestor at between mid-November and early December, 2019 “”

https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009620
 

@Desertrat56 thought you may like to see this post, check out the Scientific journal and other information above.

2 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

In December 2019 there was an outbreak in China of a novel bat-borne SARS-like coronavirus a few miles from the world’s leading laboratory for collecting, studying and manipulating novel bat-borne SARS-like coronaviruses. We were assured by leading scientists in China, the US and the UK that this really was a coincidence, even when the nine closest relatives of the new virus turned up in the freezer of the laboratory in question, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Now we know what those leading scientists really thought. Emails exchanged between them after a conference call on 1 February 2020, and only now forced into the public domain by Republicans in the US Congress, show that they not only thought the virus might have leaked from a lab, but they also went much further in private. They thought the genome sequence of the new virus showed a strong likelihood of having been deliberately manipulated or accidentally mutated in the lab. Yet later they drafted an article for a scientific journal arguing that the suggestion not just of a manipulated virus, but even of an accidental spill, could be confidently dismissed and was a crackpot conspiracy theory.

 

Jeremy Farrar – who organised the call on 1 February with Patrick Vallance, Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci and a Who’s Who of virology – had already spilled a few of the beans in his book, Spike, published last year. He wrote that at the start of February 2020 he thought there was a 50 per cent chance the virus was engineered, while Kristian Andersen of the Scripps Research Institute was at 60-70 per cent and Eddie Holmes of Sydney University put it at 80 per cent. But some time after the call they all changed their mind. Why? They have never troubled us with an answer.

 

The emails unveiled this week reveal no good scientific reason at all for why these leading virologists changed their minds and became deniers rather than believers in even the remote possibility of a lab leak, all in just a few days in February 2020. No new data, no new arguments. But they do very clearly reveal a blatant political reason for the volte-face.

 

In August 2020 Kristian Andersen and Robert Garry were among the lead investigators to receive $8.9million to study emerging infectious diseases, in a grant from Anthony Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, part of Francis Collins’s National Institutes of Health.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/01/12/why-did-scientists-suppress-the-lab-leak-theory/

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Setton said:

Yes, because the top virologists on the UK base their conclusions on how much it will annoy the president of the US 

 

 

Get over yourselves 

Hey Setton, they really do need to get past the Trumpian fake news, but hey what else do they have to talk about since it’s has been proven Trump tried to rig and steal the election and that a Federal Judge found Trump responsible fir Riots at the Capital. 
 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[+OverSword]

53 minutes ago, Setton said:

Yes, because the top virologists on the UK base their conclusions on how much it will annoy the president of the US 

 

 

Get over yourselves 

Get up to date.  No scientist is ruling out the lab leak and most deem it more likely.  And I listed two reasons as well didn't I Setton?  

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Two reasons I can think of neither of which are scientific 

1. Trump said it happened
2. They get big funding payoffs from China

And since 50% of the country hates trump then anything trump said was wrong.

Reason #3 Trump told them as his employees to keep their mouths shut because he and Pompeo would handle it.  There is some logic for a President confronting another head of state like Xi.  A doctor could easily get blown off by the Chinese if he broke the story   Same with Rand Paul breaking the story.  It raises money for him on the domestic side but  Xi would cr*p in his lunchbox. 

It is not even a bad move for Trump to handle it that way.  Not a lot he did do I agree with, but keeping us out of wars  was one and this might be another. 

Besides the obvious, it also gives the administration an out of credible deniability to back off and blame Fauci for bad information if they needed to do so.

[+OverSword]

14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

A third reason, maybe it wasn't suppressed but rather proven false.

Proven?  Nope.  

[+OverSword]

@Setton and anyone else with an attention span.  Here is a very good interview with Jamie Metzl, five hours long and much of it related to virology in Asia.

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

@Setton and anyone else with an attention span.  Here is a very good interview with Jamie Metzl, five hours long and much of it related to virology in Asia.

 

So your offering Jamie Metzl as an expert! Wow that’s interesting here is his background  Technology Futurist, Geopolitics Expert, Entrepreneur, Sci-Fi Novelist, Keynote Speaker He is certainly qualified to speak on the subject, hey when are you guys going to stop using electricians, dentists, and auto mechanics as your experts!

Who is Jamie Metzl,  https://jamiemetzl.com

You said above that no scientist dismisses the Lab Leak theory, well you really should do some research because approximately 90% no longer consider it a viable theory, if you want to post sources for your comments please do, and I will also post sources that prove them wrong!

When are guys going to catch up, your information is way behind the current times!

Edited January 14, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

So your offering Jamie Metal as an expert! Wow that’s interesting here is his background  Technology Futurist, Geopolitics Expert, Entrepreneur, Sci-Fi Novelist, Keynote Speaker He is certainly qualified to speak on the subject, hey when are you guys going to stop using electricians, dentists, and auto mechanics as your experts!

You said above that no scientist dismisses the Lab Leak theory, well you really should do some research because approximately 90% no longer consider it a viable theory, if you want to post sources for your comments please do, and I will also post sources that prove them wrong!

Watch the vid.  His credentials are much more extensive than what some random person (anyone can contribute to wikipedia, anything they want) typed on wikipedia

Edited January 14, 2022 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, acute said:

Can someone explain to me, preferably in English, what difference it makes if Covid-19 came from the lab in Wuhan?

To me that's like asking why study the origins of Ebola or aides?

Knowledge helps us learn how to prevent things in the future.

If it was proven tomorrow that Covid leaked from a lab than within 48 hours a ton of countries would  launched investigation into lab security standards and regulations. Pressure would be put on nations who slack on their biosecurity. 

If we found out it came from conditions in a crowded wet market than nations would begin making those more secure and put pressure on nations who don't comply.

And for the simple sake of scientific knowledge it would be useful to understand if it evolved in nature or by humans.

The only reason not to find out the answer is because China is a sensitive baby about it being investigated instead of being a helpful adult 

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Yes, because the top virologists on the UK base their conclusions on how much it will annoy the president of the US 

 

 

Get over yourselves 

Eh, I mean Trump shut down flights from China due to Covid concerns and head Democrats at the time took a filmed walk through Chinatown so that they could call the flight ban racist 

[+OverSword]

44 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009620

Well that was a lot something that didn't say much.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If you don't watch the video you have no room to comment about it.  

Yes I do, he is not qualified to discuss the subject, he has no medical background, no Scientific background, and he is a Sci-fi novelist  and he has no credentials and no Academic background on the subject! why would you listen or use him as a source that’s the real question?

[spartan max2]

17 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You said above that no scientist dismisses the Lab Leak theory, well you really should do some research because approximately 90% no longer consider it a viable theory, if you want to post sources for your comments please do, and I will also post sources that prove them wrong!

Is that stat supported by a link?

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes I do, he is not qualified to discuss the subject, he has no medical background, no Scientific background, and he is a Sci-fi novelist  and he has no credentials and no Academic background on the subject! why would you listen or use him as a source that’s the real question?

He is much more than that.  He is an expert on Asian governments (you know, the thing that covered up the leak) and has been a high ranking member of the US government as well as the council on foreign relations.  What he is also is a first rate researcher, which is a handy thing for this subject.  Much more accomplished at pretty much anything than you or I.  So anyway, I read your thing so are you as good as me at participating in this or are you just a dick? 

Edited January 14, 2022 by OverSword

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Is that stat supported by a link?

If you wish to have a serious discussion read the Scientific Journal in post 9, now your a very intelligent guy so read the subject matter and we can have a serious discussion!

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

If you wish to have a serious discussion read the Scientific Journal in post 9, now your a very intelligent guy so read the subject matter and we can have a serious discussion!

That Post is a lot of words that mean zip if you're not a scientist, and you're not.  You didn't read past the first paragraph where is says "it looks more like a zoological origin"  Then you stopped.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

If you wish to have a serious discussion read the Scientific Journal in post 9, now your a very intelligent guy so read the subject matter and we can have a serious discussion!

So the scientific journal in post 9 surveyed hundreds of scientist and found that 90% of them do not find lab leak theory in the reasonable realm of possibility?

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

He is much more than that.  He is an expert on Asian Politics (you know, the thing that covered up the leak) and has been a high ranking member of the US government as well as the council on foreign relations.  Much more accomplished at pretty much anything than you or I.  So anyway, I read your thing so are you as good as me at participating in this or are you just a dick? 

I must disagree, do you go to a politician to get a broken leg set? For information concerning this pandemic the scientific community is the only place to go for information.

But yes he did work for the US Government fir a little over a year!