Democratic Voters Support Harsh Measures Against Unvaccinated

[godnodog]

16 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I work with past temperature records and tree-ring proxies.  Temperatures in Oklahoma have risen 0.7 F since I moved here in 2001.  That's about 2F since 1976.  Also, it is getting wetter here.  Rainfall has increased 0.4 inches/yr. in the same time.  Oklahoma has nine climate divisions; they all show warmer, wetter conditions.  Those numbers are from actual written records, not simulations.

My climate research has stalled due to covid.  I have to work from home where I don't have access to the records I need.  I am also preparing a post-oak climate chronology.  I'd like to do one for each climate division, but don't know if there's enough data.  Climate Division 1 (Panhandle), probably not.  I'll have to do the others and see what I get.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but that's nt what I do.

Doug

Where I live should be raining (at least some rain) and temps near zero, nope the other day was a nice early spring day.

My country is at the stage "drought", and this is the winter!!!!

[psyche101]

10 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Where I live should be raining (at least some rain) and temps near zero, nope the other day was a nice early spring day.

My country is at the stage "drought", and this is the winter!!!!

We have all the rain this year. Thanks courtesy of El Nina. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Sorry if I'm not being clear.

You're clear, I just don't agree with you .

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

The majority of people here are anti-division. 

We were raised that way. It is historical fact that apartheid in no way promotes health and safety, unless it's for the good of the opressers.

Medical isolation. 

Its not like people don't have the ability to learn why vaccination is vital to society. 

The anti vax crowd are creating the division. They know there are consequences for putting the public at risk. They know that the majority of people are doing their part. No no society celebrates the slackers in society who don't do their bit. I think you over estimate the anti vax position. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

You obviously downplay the influence of media as a propaganda machine. 

I think anyone who takes a single media source for gospel is doing themselves a disservice. I've already said the provided media concerning the situation is dodgy, that's what began this discussion. Rebel News is a crappy rag.

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Plenty of examples you can find of her saying one thing then doin the opposite.

But no public accountability.  

Nuff said.

That's not what I asked at all. 

I said she was saying she is taking the quickest path she can see out of lockdown. I'm still not sure why you object to the clip you posted. You said it was showing some sort of evil. I..just not seeing it..

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Giants are to me anyway, essential workers, the frontliners risking their lives and relationships during lockdown to keep everyone else safe. Leaders in their very own right.

Somehow is she turning on them? Aren't the larger majority of frontline workers already vaccinated? 

And why would you want unvaccinated people on the front line for goodness sakes? That's an extreme public health risk. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Many them will no doubt be on the bottom of the mandated heap.  

I'd support that. Such high risks are simply unacceptable to the larger public.

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

ITS always been about choice.

The public needs convincing that now they don't have a choice.

Being stood over to choose this or suffer the consequences is bullying not a choice.

It is the use of force.

But your not hearing the majority of vaccinated people who's choice your choice violates. 

I don't understand why you feel people should accept a risk because of another's beliefs. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

To take away someone's job or their livelihood if they don't choose your choice is not choice.

It is the use of force.

It's just safety policy. If you refuse a hard hat and steel caps with a fluoro vest you are not allowed to work on a work site.

It's more like that. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Now if I forced you NOT to take a vaccine would you like that?

If you had the majority of the best doctors in the world behind you, reams of studies and evidence, sure I'd like that. I'd not need to be forced.

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

As others seem to tell you over and over as it is your right to choose so it is theirs to choose not.

Sure, there's consequences for putting the public at risk. That's a given. If one chooses not, it's like refusing to wear a hard hat at a building site. Taking a minority position based on beliefs that override medical advice is also going to limit choices amongst the greater responsible population. 

Some people in Italy believed God would keep them Covid free. Didn't happen. Lots of people died. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

If your really that vulnerable or afraid of the virus maybe those fancy re-isolation facillities can house you and all others like you.  Keep the healthy employed and free.

I'm employed and reasonably healthy. I work out, I box. I ride a motorbike so I'm often outdoors. 

I don't think refusing to take a risk based on your beliefs could be considered fear or a vulnerability. It's just not accepting a belief at risk to the public. That's more annoyance at those who think they are smarter than the majority of medical professionals and concern for those at risk for that choice. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

Like I said elsewhere to you, an alternative to being vaxed  is regular testing.

We have had something similar here,  before the mandates.

Surveillance testing. Soon RAT tests might suffice.

I'm not trying to sound extreme.  I'm not anti-vax.

Anti-vax does not mean Anti-life. 

Do you describe yourself as pro-vax?

And yes, you will probably have them again later this year as this goes full circle. 

That's how it works. Ramp up, ramp down. Now that we have vaccines, hopefully by the end of the year everyone will be vaccinated, cured or dead and herd immunity can be achieved. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

The difference between you and me is you will dismiss a healthy part of the community as lepers simply by default, not because they carry covid, but because one day, perhaps, maybe, in the unspecified future, they could, theoretically, get infected and spawn the ugliest most frightening covid monster your mind can imagine.

There's nothing theoretical.

They will get infected, and infect so many others that there will be casualties. That's been happening for the last two years. 

People don't have that right. 

I can't stand people who go to work sick either. It's complete disrespect for those around such a person. 

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

That's it. I'm not be answering any more questions. My stance is clear. 

Thanks

You only answered one. 

I asked more than that. 

I don't know what Jacinda said that was promoting division and fear 

I don't know why you feel people should be allowed to put others at risk for personal beliefs.

I don't understand how working towards a pre Covid situation is an unobtainable utopia. 

I don't know why you would want unvaccinated people on the frontline. That's crazy dangerous.

I don't know why you think kids are being vaccinated over personal risk, again, it's those around them, not them. 

And I don't know why you don't think the lockdown measures in NZ have resulted in one of the lowest fatality rates on the planet. 

I respect your choice not to answer the last question. Fair enough.

Your stance is clear, but not supported. I shouldn't have to accept your beliefs when medical threats exist. If this was a polio pandemic and people were acting like they have with Covid, I'd be buying up as many shares as I could in wheelchair companies. 

[taniwha]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

You're clear, I just don't agree with you .

Medical isolation. 

Its not like people don't have the ability to learn why vaccination is vital to society. 

The anti vax crowd are creating the division. They know there are consequences for putting the public at risk. They know that the majority of people are doing their part. No no society celebrates the slackers in society who don't do their bit. I think you over estimate the anti vax position. 

I think anyone who takes a single media source for gospel is doing themselves a disservice. I've already said the provided media concerning the situation is dodgy, that's what began this discussion. Rebel News is a crappy rag.

That's not what I asked at all. 

I said she was saying she is taking the quickest path she can see out of lockdown. I'm still not sure why you object to the clip you posted. You said it was showing some sort of evil. I..just not seeing it..

Somehow is she turning on them? Aren't the larger majority of frontline workers already vaccinated? 

And why would you want unvaccinated people on the front line for goodness sakes? That's an extreme public health risk. 

I'd support that. Such high risks are simply unacceptable to the larger public.

But your not hearing the majority of vaccinated people who's choice your choice violates. 

I don't understand why you feel people should accept a risk because of another's beliefs. 

It's just safety policy. If you refuse a hard hat and steel caps with a fluoro vest you are not allowed to work on a work site.

It's more like that. 

If you had the majority of the best doctors in the world behind you, reams of studies and evidence, sure I'd like that. I'd not need to be forced.

Sure, there's consequences for putting the public at risk. That's a given. If one chooses not, it's like refusing to wear a hard hat at a building site. Taking a minority position based on beliefs that override medical advice is also going to limit choices amongst the greater responsible population. 

Some people in Italy believed God would keep them Covid free. Didn't happen. Lots of people died. 

I'm employed and reasonably healthy. I work out, I box. I ride a motorbike so I'm often outdoors. 

I don't think refusing to take a risk based on your beliefs could be considered fear or a vulnerability. It's just not accepting a belief at risk to the public. That's more annoyance at those who think they are smarter than the majority of medical professionals and concern for those at risk for that choice. 

And yes, you will probably have them again later this year as this goes full circle. 

That's how it works. Ramp up, ramp down. Now that we have vaccines, hopefully by the end of the year everyone will be vaccinated, cured or dead and herd immunity can be achieved. 

There's nothing theoretical.

They will get infected, and infect so many others that there will be casualties. That's been happening for the last two years. 

People don't have that right. 

I can't stand people who go to work sick either. It's complete disrespect for those around such a person. 

You only answered one. 

I asked more than that. 

I don't know what Jacinda said that was promoting division and fear 

I don't know why you feel people should be allowed to put others at risk for personal beliefs.

I don't understand how working towards a pre Covid situation is an unobtainable utopia. 

I don't know why you would want unvaccinated people on the frontline. That's crazy dangerous.

I don't know why you think kids are being vaccinated over personal risk, again, it's those around them, not them. 

And I don't know why you don't think the lockdown measures in NZ have resulted in one of the lowest fatality rates on the planet. 

I respect your choice not to answer the last question. Fair enough.

Your stance is clear, but not supported. I shouldn't have to accept your beliefs when medical threats exist. If this was a polio pandemic and people were acting like they have with Covid, I'd be buying up as many shares as I could in wheelchair companies. 

The reason why you ask so many questions and why you 'don't know' is because you make up the narrative as you go. 

None of what you say I think is close to what I actually think because I don't think that. 

What I do think is that if you were any good at boxing there would be no need for misdirection just so you can score with a cheap blind hit.

Putting words in my mouth is hitting below the belt too.

You display all the guts and fight of a 9 pound weakling trying to brave it with the heavyweights.

TRY keep it clean

[quiXilver]

10 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Odds are better if you get vaccinated:  https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

Doug

Yes.  Vaccinated is the more prudent course.

I thought that was implied with my post.

[taniwha]

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

You actually a funny guy, thanks I certainly needed a laugh tonight!

Tough crowd alright, haha. Thanks for that and your welcome! 

[psyche101]

29 minutes ago, taniwha said:

The reason why you ask so many questions and why you 'don't know' is because you make up the narrative as you go. 

That makes no sense at all. 

The questions remain the same. I shan't ask them again as you obviously have no intention of answering them.

29 minutes ago, taniwha said:

None of what you say I think is close to what I actually think because I don't think that. 

Example please.

29 minutes ago, taniwha said:

What I do think is that if you were any good at boxing there would be no need for misdirection just so you can score with a cheap blind hit.

Example please.

29 minutes ago, taniwha said:

Putting words in my mouth is hitting below the belt too.

Example please.

29 minutes ago, taniwha said:

You display all the guts and fight of a 9 pound weakling trying to brave it with the heavyweights.

TRY keep it clean

That's a pretty poor ad hom. 

You could just answer the questions so I do have a better understanding of what your be actual grievances are instead of resorting to be a level I'm in not going to sink to. You're on your own there.

 You have your head in the sand, and think people care. Got it

Enjoy your evening.

[Only_]

10 hours ago, toast said:

So you would accept as well that these people would be a potential threat to the health of people who have a real medical indication for not getting vaccinated

I wouldn't want to be in that position. These people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It seems to me they are the ones who would benefit the most from wearing a mask, social distancing etc.

Quote

and/or little kids who are too young for a vaccination? Hard question, I know but it must be asked.

Little kids are at very low risk of severe illness from COVID. Studies do support that.

I'm not sure there is any real benefit from vaccination in that age group.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Only_

[Knob Oddy]

13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

What will happen when it is corporations and not the government imposing regulations?

Corporations are using the government to impose regulations right now. Every day there are lobbyist's nibbling away at the government to implement corporate will.

How can a corporation impose regulations (i.e laws) without a government listening to them? 

[Tatetopa]

5 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

How can a corporation impose regulations (i.e laws) without a government listening to them? 

They control their space and their organization.  Most do not allow firearms on their premises regardless of your 2A rights.  They can fire you, cancel your  contracts, refuse to give you loans, refuse to buy your products or sell you theirs.  They can refuse to provide you with service. 

They can't throw you in jail or restrain you, but using economic power they can  get you to do just about anything they want.

You somehow blame the government representatives for listening to their biggest contributors.  You also have a hand in electing those representatives and permitting behavior with a wink and a nod when it suits you. 

 

[Knob Oddy]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

They control their space and their organization.  Most do not allow firearms on their premises regardless of your 2A rights.  They can fire you, cancel your  contracts, refuse to give you loans, refuse to buy your products or sell you theirs.  They can refuse to provide you with service. 

They can't throw you in jail or restrain you, but using economic power they can  get you to do just about anything they want.

You somehow blame the government representatives for listening to their biggest contributors.  You also have a hand in electing those representatives and permitting behavior with a wink and a nod when it suits you. 

 

And you think the government prevents or controls this in some way?

I'm no corporate stooge. But if you think corporations can control me without the ability to implement laws by lobbying then i think you are crazy.

Oh no, this corporation wont sell me a cake. Oh well, i'll go to the next one

[zep73]

15 hours ago, Only_ said:

I can 'boast' to live in one of the places with the highest COVID vaccination rate (90% of the population is vaccinated).

I can tell you Omicron spreads like wildfire among the vaccinated.

Almost the same here.

The reason Omicron spreads so much among the vaccinated is because they're dumb enough to think they're protected by the vaccines. They are not considering how much trouble getting sick causes society, how unpleasant it is to get sick, or how potentially dangerous Omicron is to some of their peers. Just because most people behave like idiots, it doesn't mean I have to.

Edited January 18, 2022 by zep73

[toast]

2 hours ago, Only_ said:

Little kids are at very low risk of severe illness from COVID. Studies do support that.

Since Delta and Omicron also children have needed to be hospitalized because of C19. As for the smaller ones, they can spread the virus and thats why we had our kindergardens closed in the past here in Germany. In a nutshell, they cannot be judged as to be safe in general.

Quote

I'm not sure there is any real benefit from vaccination in that age group.

In my country kids can get vaccinated from an age of 5 years on. Dont forget, the virus is a very smart little b****** as it has always found the weak spots.

[Knob Oddy]

9 minutes ago, toast said:

 

In my country kids can get vaccinated from an age of 5 years on. Dont forget, the virus is a very smart little b****** as it has always found the weak spots.

The virus is smart. The virus will find you. 

Stay scared Toast. It's the only thing that will save you

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 hours ago, taniwha said:

Tough crowd alright, haha. Thanks for that and your welcome! 

So are you!

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

And you think the government prevents or controls this in some way?

I'm no corporate stooge. But if you think corporations can control me without the ability to implement laws by lobbying then i think you are crazy.

Oh no, this corporation wont sell me a cake. Oh well, i'll go to the next one

 Very big talk but you will never back it up with force so keep preaching!

You armchair revolutionary you!

Edited January 18, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Corporations are using the government to impose regulations right now. Every day there are lobbyist's nibbling away at the government to implement corporate will.

How can a corporation impose regulations (i.e laws) without a government listening to them? 

They fire anyone that doesn’t comply!

[toast]

38 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

The virus is smart. The virus will find you. 

Stay scared Toast. It's the only thing that will save you

I`m a North-German guy so I`m never scared but I take care of myself.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

And you think the government prevents or controls this in some way?

I'm no corporate stooge. But if you think corporations can control me without the ability to implement laws by lobbying then i think you are crazy.

Oh no, this corporation wont sell me a cake. Oh well, i'll go to the next one

Nope, not a bit of it.  We live in a free enterprise market driven society.

By stooge, I suppose you mean employee.  Probably half of our workforce does work for corporations so perhaps you classify them as stooges. Lucky you.  You don't have to worry about a corporation shutting your plant down and moving to China, or shutting down for a month without pay or requiring vaccinations or tests once a week.

I think you said you own a business and have employees.  Hypothetically, insurance companies could double the rates for non-vaccinated people and all of their dependents. based on increased risk. If you buy insurance for your employees, your cost goes up.  Either your profits suffer or you become less competitive.  If you don't buy insurance for your employees and they pay the cost themselves, and might decide they can't afford it.

Granted you can be big tuff Johnny Reb, a Mister Refusenik for sure and be independent.  You can grow your own food, sew your own clothes and reload your own shells.  If you have solar cells and a battery wall at home, you don't even need the power company, and add an electric car that you can charge off your battery wall and gas becomes immaterial to you.  Unless of course the utilities and petroleum companies convinced you that solar power is for sissies.

If you live in society, what corporations do affects you even if indirectly.  That is my only point.

But I will suggest that oil companies are making the biggest profits they have in a number of years by taking an advantage of a shortage to raise prices and add a little extra for more  profit.  Other industries are doing the same, and the stock market loves it.  People complain about the higher prices and blame the government for the whole thing.  That is not being a corporate stooge, that is being a corporate sucker.

 

 

 

[Tatetopa]

43 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

The virus is smart. The virus will find you. 

Stay scared Toast. It's the only thing that will save you

Cowards talk about staying scared in the face on an enemy. 

Brave men put on their helmets and wear their chain mail, pick up their axes and shields and go out to face whatever comes.

[F3SS]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:22 PM, Myles said:

I haven't looked deep into it, but we would need to know how the questions were asked.   You could skew the answers if you ask in a certain way.  

Only up to post 75 and it doesn't seam like anyone even tried to find it. It's clearly in the Rasmussen site article. 

Quote

 

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/partner_surveys/jan_2022/questions_heartland_covid_january_5_2022

Do you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable impression of Dr. Anthony Fauci?

 

Do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose President Biden’s plan to impose a COVID-19 vaccine mandate on the employees of large companies and government agencies?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal for federal or state governments to fine Americans who choose not to get a COVID-19 vaccine?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal to limit the spread of the coronavirus by having federal or state governments require that citizens remain confined to their homes at all times, except for emergencies, if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal to limit the spread of the coronavirus by having federal or state governments require that citizens temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal for federal or state governments to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal for federal or state governments to require unvaccinated citizens to use a smart phone app or wearable device that tracks unvaccinated people to ensure that they are quarantined or socially distancing from others?

 

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal to temporarily remove parents’ custody of their children if parents refuse to take the COVID-19 vaccine?

 

 

NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence

 

 

[+and-then]

18 hours ago, Only_ said:

I can tell you Omicron spreads like wildfire among the vaccinated.

 

Though we aren't seeing much about this in the MSM, the wildfire spread of Omicron is a blessing.  It accounts for over 90% of infections now and that means that Delta is being replaced in the host population, IOW, "dying out".  Those who are still claiming Omicron could still be a mass-killer, are people who WANT to keep the fear and the arguments going for reasons of their own.  This pandemic is over.  Now, let's see if these paternal governments will dump their restrictions on the lives of their citizens...

[Doug1066]

5 hours ago, Only_ said:

I wouldn't want to be in that position. These people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It seems to me they are the ones who would benefit the most from wearing a mask, social distancing etc.

Little kids are at very low risk of severe illness from COVID. Studies do support that.

I'm not sure there is any real benefit from vaccination in that age group.

There have been almost 9.5 million cases of children getting covid:  https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Oklahoma City has exhausted their bed capacity, as have we.  There are waiting lists for beds.

Doug

[Knob Oddy]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Cowards talk about staying scared in the face on an enemy. 

Brave men put on their helmets and wear their chain mail, pick up their axes and shields and go out to face whatever comes.

I'm not scared mate. I don't think the virus is "smart" as toast said or "tricky" like the leader of my country said.

It doesn't even have a brain.

Stay scared and put on your chain mail mask, for all the good it will do you

[Katniss]

16 minutes ago, and then said:

Though we aren't seeing much about this in the MSM, the wildfire spread of Omicron is a blessing.  It accounts for over 90% of infections now and that means that Delta is being replaced in the host population, IOW, "dying out".  Those who are still claiming Omicron could still be a mass-killer, are people who WANT to keep the fear and the arguments going for reasons of their own.  This pandemic is over.  Now, let's see if these paternal governments will dump their restrictions on the lives of their citizens...

AndThen, until the hospitals stay unpacked with covid patients, it's really not over. But I do agree with you the Delta variant is possibly being replaced by the Omicron variant. It seems to be the case.