Democratic Voters Support Harsh Measures Against Unvaccinated

[zep73]

1 minute ago, Hugh Mungus said:

I am very anti government and believe most regulations are stupid. I vote extreme libertarian and want the smallest government possible with the least amount of laws

I agree, except the crossed over part.

It seems you don't know what a government does. You'd be in deep trouble without one.

[quiXilver]

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

So, do you take the bigger risk, or the smaller one?

Doug

I take the lower. In my 20's and 30's, not a bit.  But in my 50's, low and with the odds thank you.

[psyche101]

44 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you if you are protecting the right to freedom of speech, freedom of association and the right to privacy.

If you don't support those then i definitely don't support you

You know, it sounds like you've got something to hide. 

I don't support your idea to be a risk to the general community. You have zero idea when it comes to accountability. Your thinking is anti community. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

24 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Breakthrough cases are a known risk.

Again, it's not the risk to the individual. It's the transmission rate and risk to who you could infect. Your might use a doorknob that might pass a virus from an unvaccinated to an elderly person resulting in death. Community is the risk. Not the individual.

This doesn't seem to be getting through to the majority. 

Each to their own. Rather than force people to do things I would simply make them accountable and equal that choice to any other and apply criminal charges for damages done through community negligence. If the unvaccinated feel so confident that they are not a risk, it shouldn't be a problem for them. 

I agree with you s completely there such things as community norms, and if people want to live a different way thats like until it infringes upon the safety and security of others. In addition, if someone unvaccinated becomes infected Coivd 19 they should not free recieve treatment like many countries have done or are still doing. They should be required to pay the normal bill people would pay for any other hospitalization, its only fair I dont want my tax dollars to support someons illness if it could have been avoided by simple vaccination. I do not want to pay a single penny in taxs for someone who can be vaccinated, my comments are not directed towards those who are unable to recieve vaccines because of other health reason.

 

 

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars

 The hospitalizations are also costing taxpayer-funded public insurance programs and the workers and businesses paying health insurance premiums. Our recent analysis found that insurers are beginning to reinstate cost-sharing for COVID-19 treatment, though patients still only pay a small share of the total costs.

The lastest version of the graph below is in this link and figures are much higher on this chart: Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

 

[Doug1066]

2 hours ago, zep73 said:

Yes, but this is about a specific group's opinions. The results brand them all. On a very thin basis.

All you need for a sample is enough subjects to generate a reliable number.  Generally that number is around 30, but in case the data is more variable than you thought, you might want to increase it a little.  If that is a concern, you can conduct a pre-test to measure how variable your data is so you can plan a better poll.

Political opinions are a highly volatile subject.  You can be absolutely right today and absolutely wrong tomorrow.  It is important to complete your poll as fast as possible, before opinion changes.  And that's another reason not to trust polls:  opinions change too fast; you may be presenting bad information, even if you did everything right.

I am suspicious of this poll because the strata are mighty close to equal-sized.  That could happen by chance, but it still makes me wonder.  Another thing to be suspicious of:  they never said how good their data was.  No descriptive statistics, no standard deviations, no nothing.  From their report, you have no idea whether it's good information or bs.  And that makes me wonder if they know how to calculate those numbers and if they don't know that, they don't know enough to be conducting a poll.

While we have different reasons for rejecting this poll, we both still reject it.

Doug

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with you s completely there such things as community norms, and if people want to live a different way thats like until it infringes upon the safety and security of others. In addition, if someone unvaccinated becomes infected Coivd 19 they should not free recieve treatment like many countries have done or are still doing. They should be required to pay the normal bill people would pay for any other hospitalization, its only fair I dont want my tax dollars to support someons illness if it could have been avoided by simple vaccination. I do not want to pay a single penny in taxs for someone who can be vaccinated, my comments are not directed towards those who are unable to recieve vaccines because of other health reason.

 

 

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars

 The hospitalizations are also costing taxpayer-funded public insurance programs and the workers and businesses paying health insurance premiums. Our recent analysis found that insurers are beginning to reinstate cost-sharing for COVID-19 treatment, though patients still only pay a small share of the total costs.

The lastest version of the graph below is in this link and figures are much higher on this chart: Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

 

 

 

100%

 

 

If these people consider themselves such a low risk, why not accept responsibility?

I think that says all that needs to be said to be honest. They are trying to convince others that they are safe to the community but don't believe it enough to accept any reprecussions.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

 

 

100%

 

 

If these people consider themselves such a low risk, why not accept responsibility?

I think that says all that needs to be said to be honest. They are trying to convince others that they are safe to the community but don't believe it enough to accept any reprecussions.

I agree completely, but wait and see the comments that will come from my post!

[Golden Duck]

27 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

I don't believe so. Now answer this:

Should businesses be forced to turn away customers they want to serve?

Because that is what is actually happening now where I live

 

You know it's my opinion that your question is linked to workplace health and safety.  In practice OH&S is implemented through a risk management philosophy.  Certain freedoms may inpinge on other freedoms.  EG.  If a business wish to serve unvaccinated then maybe potentential patrons have a right to sufficient information to assess risk for themselves.

Ive seen businees implementing privacy guidelines to mitigate risk rather than preserve rights. 

I was told a story where a most of work area became ill after an official lunch.  The manager reported the incident to the EPA.  The restaurant contacted rhe manager to complain about the of the cost of sanction and remedial action.  Of course, the manager told h the cost to his own business was his only concern.

I'm only guessing how utilitarianism will weigh the final outcome.  And, I'm guessing the outliers feel the greatest grievance.

It always seems to be the way.

[Doug1066]

18 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

I take the lower. In my 20's and 30's, not a bit.  But in my 50's, low and with the odds thank you.

Odds are better if you get vaccinated:  https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

Doug

[Doug1066]

5 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

If a business wish to serve unvaccinated then maybe potentential patrons have a right to sufficient information to assess risk for themselves.

Businesses have a legal obligation to protect their employees from known hazards and that includes infected customers.

Doug

[Golden Duck]

50 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

I am very anti government and believe most regulations are stupid. I vote extreme libertarian and want the smallest government possible with the least amount of laws

I vote major parties because see them as more competent.  And then whom I judge as least useless.  That doesn't mean I'm not critical of who I vote for.  In fact I hold them to a higher standard - the risk of someone more useless is too great - think Kevin Rudd or Bobble Headed Shill Bough'un.  ScoMo really needs to lift his game.

FWIW, I would've voted for Trump over Clinton.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Golden Duck

[Golden Duck]

28 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You know, it sounds like you've got something to hide. 

I don't support your idea to be a risk to the general community. You have zero idea when it comes to accountability. Your thinking is anti community. 

This idea there is an absolute risk methodology is myopic.

The early 2021 Sth Queensland mandate to wear masks in the car was ridiculous.  There is no denying that.  Alopecia Panacea's government themselves when they rowd it back.

When I drive I want, I need to be somewhere, sometime.  That want/need is more valuable to me than fighting the idiocy of Town Hall.

[psyche101]

3 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

This idea there is an absolute risk methodology is myopic.

The early 2021 Sth Queensland mandate to wear masks in the car was ridiculous.  There is no denying that.  Alopecia Panacea's government themselves when they rowd it back.

When I drive I want, I need to be somewhere, sometime.  That want/need is more valuable to me than fighting the idiocy of Town Hall.

Wasn't that in ubers and taxis?

People from the same household didn't have to as I remember. 

[Golden Duck]

23 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Businesses have a legal obligation to protect their employees from known hazards and that includes infected customers.

Doug

Yep.  I've told him that that is in fact law.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Golden Duck

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

FWIW, I would've voted for Trump over Clinton.

I wouldn't have voted. 

With all the protests they have, you would think they might have one for a president that doesn't have to be released from a nursing home.

[Golden Duck]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Wasn't that in ubers and taxis?

People from the same household didn't have to as I remember. 

Here in Brisbane we had to.  Which of course inspires thinking in how to circumvent it.

I reckon it would be easy to circumvent the check-in app too.  But, is it valuable to me to exclude myself to the  contact tracing system.

[Golden Duck]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I wouldn't have voted. 

With all the protests they have, you would think they might have one for a president that doesn't have to be released from a nursing home.

My vote is my ante.

[zep73]

12 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I wouldn't have voted.

I would have voted for Lady Liberty. Made my own little box, written her name, and put my X.

[jmccr8]

34 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I was told a story where a most of work area became ill after an official lunch.  The manager reported the incident to the EPA.  The restaurant contacted rhe manager to complain about the of the cost of sanction and remedial action.  Of course, the manager told h the cost to his own business was his only concern

Hi Golden

A fellow that I work with at times has not been vaccinated and we were out of town and without a passport or papers showing he had been tested we couldn't go to a sit down restaurant so went to a take out place. When we were entering I saw the owner put on a mask when we walked in and he had been handling food so I told my co-worker that we should go to a different takeout because he has a baby at home and didn't think he should take the chance of eating food that someone had been breathing on without a mask as he did not wipe down counter surfaces where he was prepping food and he agreed and went someplace else.

[jmccr8]

21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Wasn't that in ubers and taxis?

People from the same household didn't have to as I remember. 

Hi Psyche

It was the same here and was pulled over once because the guy that was in the vehicle with me didn't look like family and I was driving him to get groceries for his family. We both had masks an and the cop could see hand sanitized sitting on the console and I told the cop that my passenger worked for me and was taking him to get food so he let us go but they were writing tickets for having none family members in the car at that time.

[psyche101]

26 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Here in Brisbane we had to.  Which of course inspires thinking in how to circumvent it.

Well we are talking pallet chook here. She's upset most of the states with her ideas. Glad we didn't have to. 

Do you know if anyone was actually fined for breaching that order? 

26 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I reckon it would be easy to circumvent the check-in app too.  But, is it valuable to me to exclude myself to the  contact tracing system.

It's why I use it. 

I don't think it needs to be circumvented. I've seen people storm into Woollies and when the teenage girl at the door asks an anti vaxer to put on a mark and sign in they just treat her like dirt as if it's her implementing the rule and walk in anyway.

There's some real dicks in the anti vax crowd. 

[psyche101]

10 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Psyche

It was the same here and was pulled over once because the guy that was in the vehicle with me didn't look like family and I was driving him to get groceries for his family. We both had masks an and the cop could see hand sanitized sitting on the console and I told the cop that my passenger worked for me and was taking him to get food so he let us go but they were writing tickets for having none family members in the car at that time.

Here on father's s day a lot of people breached proximity laws at the border. 

Police turned a blind eye. They actually waved at people breaking restrictions due to the event. 

[psyche101]

23 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I would have voted for Lady Liberty. Made my own little box, written her name, and put my X.

One year I couldn't find any major party to vote for, so I voted for an independent lady with the last name "Goodbody". 

[Golden Duck]

21 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Golden

A fellow that I work with at times has not been vaccinated and we were out of town and without a passport or papers showing he had been tested we couldn't go to a sit down restaurant so went to a take out place. When we were entering I saw the owner put on a mask when we walked in and he had been handling food so I told my co-worker that we should go to a different takeout because he has a baby at home and didn't think he should take the chance of eating food that someone had been breathing on without a mask as he did not wipe down counter surfaces where he was prepping food and he agreed and went someplace else.

He doesn't sound like he is blaise about getting sick COVID, like some here seem to be.

I've never met anyone that likes being around sick people at work (obviously outside of healthcare).  They always want them to go home.  I won't be surprised see businesses try to get ahead of the curve with regular testing - if the price is right.

[Golden Duck]

15 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Well we are talking pallet chook here. She's upset most of the states with her ideas. Glad we didn't have to. 

Do you know if anyone was actually fined for breaching that order? 

It's why I use it. 

I don't think it needs to be circumvented. I've seen people storm into Woollies and when the teenage girl at the door asks an anti vaxer to put on a mark and sign in they just treat her like dirt as if it's her implementing the rule and walk in anyway.

There's some real dicks in the anti vax crowd. 

I've heard of no fines.  I never even got challenged when not wearing a mask on the train.  I never saw anyone not wearing a mask challenged.

Bars are a different story, but what has changed there.  They used to take a copy pf your licence on entry, and make sure dress was up to standard.

The Woollies on George St (BNE) handed out masks.  Good business sense.  Probably, drew a lot of customers that forgot their mask, like me.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Golden Duck