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Michigan Democratic Party Trashes Parental Rights In Education


el midgetron
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The Michigan Democratic Party found itself in hot water this Sunday after its Facebook account posted a message bashing parents for wanting to have a say in their kids’ education, even asserting parents should send their kids to private school if they want to have a choice….

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/michigan-democratic-party-trashes-parental-rights-in-education-then-deletes-post-and-backtracks

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Amazing how Michigan about faced. These are tax payer funded Public schools and so the parents should have some say in the curriculum. 

 

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The Parents are paying for it, via their taxes. I accept they pay for Health Care as well and DON'T tell a Brain Surgeon how to do their job but schools are different. The more socialist/communist/fascist a party the more they view the kids to be theirs and the Government is the only organisation that has a say in how they are "educated". The people who should be driving the bus are the clients, that is the parents and their kids. They know the "end" points better than the Teachers since they are the ones that leave at whatever age and have to get a job - so they'll have a better idea IMO of what is needed and what isn't.

 

Edited by ethereal_scout
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4 hours ago, ethereal_scout said:

The Parents are paying for it, via their taxes. I accept they pay for Health Care as well and DON'T tell a Brain Surgeon how to do their job but schools are different. The more socialist/communist/fascist a party the more they view the kids to be theirs and the Government is the only organisation that has a say in how they are "educated". The people who should be driving the bus are the clients, that is the parents and their kids. They know the "end" points better than the Teachers since they are the ones that leave at whatever age and have to get a job - so they'll have a better idea IMO of what is needed and what isn't.

 

Teachers are trained professionals, not babysitters.  Parents are babysitters, not trained teachers (usually).

I have seen the results of parent-controlled education, up close and personal.  It's called "home schooling."   The biggest problem with home schooling is that parents frequently just don't do it.  Too lazy; don't know how; a little of both?

One girl I tried to help get into a graduate program in psychology had been home schooled by a fundamentalist mother.  She had no science or math at all, did not know what the periodic table is (didn't even know its name) and couldn't do basic high school geometry and algebra.  She was a firm believer in creationism, but had no idea what the basis of evolution was.  She wanted to be a psychologist, but had no training that would allow her to enter such a program.  Her undergraduate degree was from a bible college.  She had never had to write a multi-page report or solve a problem using calculus (even derivatives).

In Oklahoma our educational standards for high school graduation are already pretty low.  Many of our high school grads are barely literate and we have parents wanting to do away with even those standards?

By not insisting on high-quality education, parents cut their children out of careers in medicine, law, research and science.  They make that decision while the kid is still in elementary school.  The American dream gets stolen by Mom and Dad.

Doug

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You're confusing issues here or getting polarized IMO.

I don't disagree, home-school may as well be no-schooling. If you want to go to Uni, you'll need to turn up and do most/all of the curriculum at a medium to high level.

What I'm on about is who controls a school in what it does/doesn't do - parents should have the last say since a)they're paying for it b)its their kids.

Government need school taken back out of its hands and returned to the community. This can really only happen in schools. I should add this is in general terms, education is different the world over but I assume in the west it'll have more similarities than differences.

By parental control I'm inferring the following:

1) The powers to hire/fire teachers - possibly decide to their re-numeration from taxes.

2) Compulsory attendance abandoned. Without knowing all schools; typically 50% of the school leave at 16 with an outside chance of getting a job in the supermarket. Around 10% go to Uni from a typical common or garden high school. Therefore Government led education only exists to serve one purpose IMO and that for High School to act as an escalator to University. For others it serves as four years of hell, it would be better if they were not there or could pick and choose their courses (like Uni). Their non-attendance becoming a 'market' point in that school would need reconfigured to attract them back.

2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

a fundamentalist mother.

IMO - when it comes to non-attendence it should be the kids choice, not the parents however there's little you could do to tell the difference, hey ho.

 

2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

She was a firm believer in creationism, but had no idea what the basis of evolution was.

Thats because evolution isn't in the Bible but creationalism is - or is that your point?

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By not insisting on high-quality education, parents cut their children out of careers in medicine, law, research and science.

What is "high-quality" education? Is it something thats simply 25% more expensive? Back in the early 1900s school was a building, a black board and a few charitable volunteers or modestly paid individuals (paid by the parents). I'm not convinced the best of the best will be inhibited by cheap education.

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ES:

What we should do first is end the test-and-punish approach to funding education.  The idea behind this is that "successful" schools will be rewarded at the expense of lower-performing schools.  But which schools are those?  The "high-performers" are from areas that are already better-funded suburban locations.  The "low-performers" are from inner-city areas.  So our current funding system punishes those schools that start out with the greatest problems.  We need to put all educational funds into one hopper and distribute them on a per capita basis to each school.

Doing that won't be easy.  Most western states have "State School Lands" that are set aside for producing revenue for education.  Most eastern states lack this.  Most states that originally had school land have sold some or all of it.  However we go about it, we must make sure that all students have an equal chance at an education.

 

Second, we need to have teachers design the curriculum.  Parents can participate and make some of the decisions.

But if parents start making all the decisions, in Oklahoma we're going to end up with a lot of Bible-illiterates, people who can thump on the Bible, but without having a clue about its history or what ideas it is trying to teach.  In addition, I don't expect kids to be well-educated in science, technology, engineering, math, history, biology, English or communication if parents choose the curricula (with a few exceptions).  Parents should have the authority to add to the basic curricula.  If they want Bible courses, then they should have Bible courses.  I just don't know how we're going to accommodate all those different religions, though.

 

Third, the idea of public education is to produce an informed citizenry that can make intelligent decisions at the voting booth.  You need only read over UM to find numerous examples of those who aren't informed.

Doug

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If parents are unfit to teach, should we fire teachers who are also parents? 
 

What an idiotic argument to demean “parents” as “unprofessional”. As if a significant portion of the entire planet aren’t parents. Guess what, lots of parents are professionals, including a lot of teachers. Joe Biden is a parent, does that disqualify him from being president? FFS nothing demonstrates the left’s contempt for the everyday person more than their willingness to disparage “parents”. 
 

We are being given a preview of the reality of socialism, Socialism promises “free” but the reality is you get what the state deems you deserve. Do Parents get a say in their children’s education? …FU “parents”

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If a parent doesn't have a masters in education, they don't know the best way to teach a child what society needs them to know. If some of these parents had their way, they'd learn that 1+1=Jesus and that'd be it, we cannot allow parents to deny their kids an education because they've been told by Fox News that book learnin' turns them Trans. 

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On average home school kids WAY out perform public school kids. 

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Heck both my boys go to public schools. If not for the hours on end I spent with each of them after school during their early years, they would be no where near the students they are today. 
 

Im sure most parents that helped their kids through their school work would agree. Most of the kids who do poorly in school have no learning structure at home. 

Edited by preacherman76
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I'm not sure about this issue.  Is the public school system bowing to a minority?  

Yep, we all pay taxes for schools, roads, government stuff, etc. but does the government or any other "voted on" item have to bow to a minority or should they haveto stick to the majority vote, facts, science and "needs of the many"?

Where I live we get to vote on where a road can go.  What can be done in a particular area of a municipality.  Can a strip club be built next to a school?  Nope.  Can a prison be built in the middle of a local small neighborhood?

While some people may vote "yes" the majority voted "no".  So these things didn't happen.  

This is why I have such a problem with the bowing of the school system and much government behavior.  We are pandering to the loudest minortiy that gets the most press coverage.

I am more concerned with the individuas being hired to make these decisions and who are teaching the kids. You want biblical ideas taught? Go to a religious school. You want a science based or fact based history taught? Public school. Don't bring up "I pay taxes" to me.  So do I. A LOT.  I don't have any kids in school any longer.  But I still support them don't I?  So yeah, you pay taxes.  Ge t over it. We all pay taxes for services we don't or may never need.

Nibs

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Heck both my boys go to public schools. If not for the hours on end I spent with each of them after school during their early years, they would be no where near the students they are today. 
 

Im sure most parents that helped their kids through their school work would agree. Most of the kids who do poorly in school have no learning structure at home. 

I actually agree with preacherman 76 on this one.  I know we don't end up at this position with the same reasoning but PARENTS need to raise their kids.

 Be aware off what is being taugt to your child.  If it isn't what you think is best, put your child in an setting that fits your expectations but don't expect the majority to change because YOU'RE unhappy.

IT. IS. NOT. UP. TO. YOU. TO. DECIDE. WHAT. IS. BEST. FOR. EVERYONE. ELSE. BASED. ON. YOUR. "BELIEF".

Nibs

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20 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I have seen the results of parent-controlled education, up close and personal.  It's called "home schooling."   The biggest problem with home schooling is that parents frequently just don't do it.  Too lazy; don't know how; a little of both?

 

Eh my aunt homeschooled her kids and one of them is going to Harvard now lol.

But anecdotes aside, in research homeschoolers normally do better than people in public school.

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69% of peer-reviewed studies on success into adulthood (including college) show adults who were home educated succeed and perform statistically significantly better than those who attended institutional schools (Ray, 2017)

https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/#:~:text=The research base on adults,schools (Ray%2C 2017).

 

Which I will add, I don't think is saying a negative about teachers. I think it's just that 1 on 1 attention for kids will always be more effective than group. 

Edited by spartan max2
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There are some things that need to be taught by the parents, like manners, religion, etc.  But the schools in the U.S. have become so hard on the students and the teachers that we are loosing teachers daily.  There was an article in todays local paper about how the governor has asked the national guard to step up and fill substitute teaching positions because of so many teachers quitting.   She also has asked for them to fill in at day care centers where they are short staffed because of Covid.    

There are some things that should not be the teacher's responsibility, like discipline.  In the 60's & 70's the teacher was expected to teach, and the discipline was done by the principal and assistant principal.  By the 90's the principal was allowed to force the teachers to deal with that so they had no time to teach.    And then there is the recent book banning and racist "woke" crap that teachers have to deal with.   The curriculum should be set by the state, but parental input needs to be included.   And bringing home schooling into this is irrelevant, except that in some states, like New Mexico, parents are required to use a state approved curriculum and the kids must pass certain tests.   Not all parents who homeschool their kids are religious nuts, some actually work with their kids to give them a good education, however most of us who would do that can't because we have to work away from home.   There are a lot of private schools in the U.S. for people who want their children to get a specific type of education from religious to college prep or arts focus.   My grandson goes to a charter school which has a focus of languages.   It is an International Baccalaureate school, but they have to include the state mandated curriculum, so that is taught in spanish instead of english.  There are two montesorri based charter schools as well as a science base charter school and several religious and college prep private schools.

Edited by Desertrat56
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17 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Eh my aunt homeschooled her kids and one of them is going to Harvard now lol.

And I know a home-schooled kid who is teaching history at St. Andrews - THE St. Andrews.

And you're right  when arents actually do thye job, they get some remarkable results.

Doug

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On 1/19/2022 at 11:33 AM, ethereal_scout said:

The Parents are paying for it, via their taxes. I accept they pay for Health Care as well and DON'T tell a Brain Surgeon how to do their job but schools are different. The more socialist/communist/fascist a party the more they view the kids to be theirs and the Government is the only organisation that has a say in how they are "educated". The people who should be driving the bus are the clients, that is the parents and their kids. They know the "end" points better than the Teachers since they are the ones that leave at whatever age and have to get a job - so they'll have a better idea IMO of what is needed and what isn't.

It was Marx himself who said (paraphrasing) "Once you remove mother and father from the family unit, the State becomes mother and father." Also  'limousine liberals' should shut their damn mouths and keep them that way. These are the same kind of elitist ****s who say "if you're in a state where your human rights are compromised, why don't you just move?" These people will never have to actually suffer the consequences a poor person would as a result of their policies - hence why they're so often completely divorced from reality.

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On 1/18/2022 at 1:17 AM, South Alabam said:

Amazing how Michigan about faced. These are tax payer funded Public schools and so the parents should have some say in the curriculum. 

 

I agree.  Also, most schools have volunteer parents helping out with different classes, clubs, athletics and more.   

They shouldn't have ultimate control, but their wishes should be considered.  The Local school near me will not include any CRT teaching because the parents do not want them to.   That's how it should work if the majority is large enough.  

The parents also need vote out the members of the school board if possible.  

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4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There are some things that need to be taught by the parents, like ... religion...

The problem is that the fundamentalists (mostly Southern Baptists) want public schools to teach THEIR religion and get nasty when the schoolos try to include other religious perspectives.  I suspect that's because the parents don't know anything ab9out their own religion, but are embarrassed to admit it.

Doug

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2 minutes ago, Joke_Master_Mandy said:

It was Marx himself who said (paraphrasing) "Once you remove mother and father from the family unit, the State becomes mother and father." Also  'limousine liberals' should shut their damn mouths and keep them that way. These are the same kind of elitist ****s who say "if you're in a state where your human rights are compromised, why don't you just move?" These people will never have to actually suffer the consequences a poor person would as a result of their policies - hence why they're so often completely divorced from reality.

This comment reminds me of the 80's when the Planned Parenthood in the small town I lived in would get a group of rich people picketing them about abortion (women literally wearing fur coats in a climate that rarely had temperatures below 50 degrees and showing up in Cadillacs).  The clinic they bothered once a month did not do abortions, it was a small clinic that just provided health care for women who couldn't afford to go to a doctor.   

I don't think those picketers were even from our town.

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5 minutes ago, Joke_Master_Mandy said:

"if you're in a state where your human rights are compromised, why don't you just move?"

America - love it or leave it?

Heard that a lot during Vietnam.  But ten it was coming from the right.

Doug

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Just now, Doug1066 said:

The problem is that the fundamentalists (mostly Southern Baptists) want public schools to teach THEIR religion and get nasty when the schoolos try to include other religious perspectives.  I suspect that's because the parents don't know anything ab9out their own religion, but are embarrassed to admit it.

Doug

Most public schools avoid teaching anything about any religion.  What schools are you talking about?  It is illegal to teach any religion in a U.S. public school.  Even in Texas they don't do that.  

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1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Most public schools avoid teaching anything about any religion.  What schools are you talking about?  It is illegal to teach any religion in a U.S. public school.  Even in Texas they don't do that.  

Public schools avoid teaching religion to avoid the controversies that come with it.  Teaching about religion is legal, but everybody gets equal time - even the atheists and Satanists.  Teachers who are already short of time, simply can't do it.

Doug

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10 minutes ago, Myles said:

That's how it should work if the majority is large enough.

Dictatorship of the majority?

Doug

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20 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I have seen the results of parent-controlled education, up close and personal.  It's called "home schooling."   The biggest problem with home schooling is that parents frequently just don't do it.  Too lazy; don't know how; a little of both?

Yea, so have I. My kids outclassed the public school kids. They tried public school again, were bored, came back to home schooling. 

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