Germany wants UK style points based immigration system.

[L.A.T.1961]

Germany wants to attract 400,000 skilled workers from abroad each year.

"The shortage of skilled workers has become so serious by now that it is dramatically slowing down our economy," Christian Duerr, parliamentary leader of the co-governing Free Democrats (FDP), told business magazine WirtschaftsWoche. 

  "We can only get the problem of an ageing workforce under control with a modern immigration policy... We have to reach the mark of 400,000 skilled workers from abroad as quickly as possible," Duerr added. 

  Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Social Democrats, Duerr's libertarian FDP and the environmentalist Greens agreed in their coalition deal on measures like a points system for specialists from countries outside the European Union and lifting the national minimum wage to 12 euros ($13.60) per hour to make working in Germany more attractive. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-wants-attract-400-000-050433498.html

 

[Silver]

I doubt they want the UK system, all that has done is repel the workers we need, and has done nothing to stop the illegal immigrants that people are angry about.

International demographic change and population needs were discussed on R4 last night- most European countries including the UK have an aging population, so we all desperately need under thirties to contribute to the economy- whether they work in social care or in agriculture and industry. Young, skilled labour is a scarse resource - the UK has rather shot itself in the foot by hoping that India and Asia will fulfil our labour needs.

[OpenMindedSceptic]

11 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Germany wants to attract 400,000 skilled workers from abroad each year.

"The shortage of skilled workers has become so serious by now that it is dramatically slowing down our economy," Christian Duerr, parliamentary leader of the co-governing Free Democrats (FDP), told business magazine WirtschaftsWoche. 

  "We can only get the problem of an ageing workforce under control with a modern immigration policy... We have to reach the mark of 400,000 skilled workers from abroad as quickly as possible," Duerr added. 

  Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Social Democrats, Duerr's libertarian FDP and the environmentalist Greens agreed in their coalition deal on measures like a points system for specialists from countries outside the European Union and lifting the national minimum wage to 12 euros ($13.60) per hour to make working in Germany more attractive. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-wants-attract-400-000-050433498.html

 

But they can't. They're in the EU 

 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

32 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

But they can't. They're in the EU 

 

Internal EU migration is dependent on if you have a job or means of supporting yourself. How you organise migration from none EU countries is up to the country itself.

The UK got neither right in all the time it was an EU member.

 

Br Cornelius

[OpenMindedSceptic]

1 hour ago, Br Cornelius said:

Internal EU migration is dependent on if you have a job or means of supporting yourself. How you organise migration from none EU countries is up to the country itself.

The UK got neither right in all the time it was an EU member.

 

Br Cornelius

A quick glance at Calais will suggest that movement in the EU has nothing to do with jobs or means of support.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

1 minute ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

A quick glance at Calais will suggest that movement in the EU has nothing to do with jobs or means of support.

That is not something which can be solved by a points based immigration system. How the EU deals with refugees and illegal immigrants is an entirely different matter to what is been discussed by Germany and to confuse the issues shows something of an evil intent.

 

Br Cornelius

[OpenMindedSceptic]

57 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

That is not something which can be solved by a points based immigration system. How the EU deals with refugees and illegal immigrants is an entirely different matter to what is been discussed by Germany and to confuse the issues shows something of an evil intent.

 

Br Cornelius

What on earth are you talking about?

The free movement of people is something I welcome. 

You stated how it opens up the opportunity for smuggling and fraud inferring a lack of checks and paperwork create this issue. 

You seem pro EU but the  moment seems at odds with a trading  bloc like EU.

If the EU had stopped as trading partners I think the UK would've stayed.

Power hungry MEP's with the desire for project scope creep have ruined it and yet still want more power (Germany toying with handing over their sovereignty as one example).

It'll ruin the Euros football tournament!

[Guest Br Cornelius]

1 minute ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

What on earth are you talking about?

The free movement of people is something I welcome. 

You stated how it opens up the opportunity for smuggling and fraud inferring a lack of checks and paperwork create this issue. 

You seem pro EU but the  moment seems at odds with a trading  bloc like EU.

If the EU had stopped as trading partners I think the UK would've stayed.

Power hungry MEP's with the desire for project scope creep have ruined it and yet still want more power (Germany toying with handing over their sovereignty as one example).

It'll ruin the Euros football tournament!

Which side steps both the point you made and the response I made. Nice.
You made a typical right wing wolf whistle about immigration in general and completely ignored the actual details of legal migration in Germany.

Br Cornelius

[OpenMindedSceptic]

2 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

Which side steps both the point you made and the response I made. Nice.
You made a typical right wing wolf whistle about immigration in general and completely ignored the actual details of legal migration in Germany.

Br Cornelius

There are zero border controls in Germany for huge swathes of the EU.

You can drive through borders often unchallenged.

Ergo, it's a corrupt system judging by your first comment.

The governing of the EU is a corrupt system. Just pop into Frankfurt and see what they've spent there around banking infrastructure and then talk to the locals.

It's eye opening.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

4 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

There are zero border controls in Germany for huge swathes of the EU.

You can drive through borders often unchallenged.

Ergo, it's a corrupt system judging by your first comment.

The governing of the EU is a corrupt system. Just pop into Frankfurt and see what they've spent there around banking infrastructure and then talk to the locals.

It's eye opening.

More polemic ignoring the actual point of a points based Immigration system in Germany. Your just not capable of addressing the point are you.

Br Cornelius

[Silver]

3 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

A quick glance at Calais will suggest that movement in the EU has nothing to do with jobs or means of support.

I think you are confusing legal, planned immigration with illegal un-planned immigration. While the UK was part of the EU we had access to mechanisms for removing immigrants who were unproductive, we just didn't use them. The people crossing the channel in dinghies (still 1k per week plus, even in this inclement weather) are not part of freedom of movement.

[L.A.T.1961]

6 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

But they can't. They're in the EU 

 

They can for those coming from outside the EU. Which is what Germany are doing in this case. 

What I find interesting is when the UK decided on this system for all immigration it was claimed by various media and political commentators that it was somehow racist and unfair Ect. 

Which is probably why this story is not picked up by the same UK media and political commentators.

By switching to this system, described by German politicians as modern and better, it suddenly gives it credibility as Germany would never do anything unreasonable, would they

At least according to the pro EU press. 

So is a points based system of immigration reasonable and productive or not. 

It seems to be easy to argue against in the UK when implemented by a tory government. 

Probably not so much now. 

 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

They can for those coming from outside the EU. Which is what Germany are doing in this case. 

What I find interesting is when the UK decided on this system for all immigration it was claimed by various media and political commentators that it was somehow racist and unfair Ect. 

Which is probably why this story is not picked up by the same UK media and political commentators.

By switching to this system, described by German politicians as modern and better, it suddenly gives it credibility as Germany would never do anything unreasonable, would they

At least according to the pro EU press. 

So is a points based system of immigration reasonable and productive or not. 

It seems to be easy to argue against in the UK when implemented by a tory government. 

Probably not so much now. 

 

Funny how you would take these conclusions from the story

 

Br Cornelius

[godnodog]

12 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

But they can't. They're in the EU 

 

Yes they can, one thing is internal movement of EU & Schengen member states citizens, another is 3rd country citizens movements.

For example a  citizen (Bangladesh or USA) that gets a Portuguese work/residence visa/permission cannot move to Germany and vice versa based on that visa/permission, they would need to apply under German laws and regulations.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by godnodog

[OpenMindedSceptic]

13 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Yes they can, one thing is internal movement of EU & Schengen member states citizens, another is 3rd country citizens movements.

For example a  citizen (Bangladesh or USA) that gets a Portuguese work/residence visa/permission cannot move to Germany and vice versa based on that visa/permission, they would need to apply under German laws and regulations.

 

Work visa. Then citizenship. Then EU travel.

Or alternatively, land in the Mediterranean region and travel through to Calais because checks on the borders are not equipped to prevent it. 

 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

12 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Work visa. Then citizenship. Then EU travel.

Or alternatively, land in the Mediterranean region and travel through to Calais because checks on the borders are not equipped to prevent it. 

 

So you don't think a productive immigrant should be able to apply for naturalization and become an EU citizen ?

Illegal immigrants are a fact of life across the world, stopping them at the border is simply not a solution since borders are porous. The reality for the UK is that most illegal immigrants are people who started out with legal VISA's and went awol . The problem of illegal immigration can best be addressed by finding them and deporting them.

 

Br Cornelius
 

[OpenMindedSceptic]

5 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

So you don't think a productive immigrant should be able to apply for naturalization and become an EU citizen ?

Illegal immigrants are a fact of life across the world, stopping them at the border is simply not a solution since borders are porous. The reality for the UK is that most illegal immigrants are people who started out with legal VISA's and went awol . The problem of illegal immigration can best be addressed by finding them and deporting them.

 

Br Cornelius
 

Where and when on earth do you think I said that?

 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

4 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Where and when on earth do you think I said that?

 

Just pointing out that your example of migration into the EU is perfectly legitimate and even beneficial to the EU.

Short term work VISA's for none EU citizens are entirely the responsibility of the issuing state and none binding on any other member state - they are not a pathway to internal migration within the EU.

Br Cornelius

Edited January 23, 2022 by Br Cornelius

[OpenMindedSceptic]

1 minute ago, Br Cornelius said:

Just pointing out that your example of migration into the EU is perfectly legitimate and even beneficial to the EU.

 

Br Cornelius

OK. But, that sorta misses the point of this discussion. You see right wingers everywhere there are none.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

3 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

OK. But, that sorta misses the point of this discussion. You see right wingers everywhere there are none.

I think any discussion other than the proposed points based VISA/Immigration system proposed by German is the point of the discussion - fairly much all you have said is off point - pointless even.

 

Br Cornelius

Edited January 23, 2022 by Br Cornelius

[toast]

14 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

But they can't. They're in the EU .

What can Germany not do?

[OpenMindedSceptic]

5 minutes ago, toast said:

What can Germany not do?

Is the answer, tell a good joke?

Dunno, whats the answer?

[toast]

On 1/22/2022 at 8:55 PM, L.A.T.1961 said:

Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Social Democrats, Duerr's libertarian FDP and the environmentalist Greens agreed in their coalition deal on measures like a points system for specialists from countries outside the European Union and lifting the national minimum wage to 12 euros ($13.60) per hour to make working in Germany more attractive.

Just to clarify: the lifting of the minimun wage here in Germany is a general project and not triggered by the request for skilled foreign workers. The minimum wage will be increased in 2 steps: 10,45€/hr from 01JUL2022 on and 12€/hr scheduled for from 01OCT2022 on.

[toast]

5 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Is the answer, tell a good joke?

Dunno, whats the answer?

You said we cant but its unclear what you are talking about, so please elaborate because I`m well prepared to tell you (again) that you are plain wrong.

[OpenMindedSceptic]

3 minutes ago, toast said:

You said we cant but its unclear what you are talking about, so please elaborate because I`m well prepared to tell you (again) that you are plain wrong.

Good to see you approaching debate with a balanced mind and neutral opinion. 

I really can't be bothered to chunk down what is in front of your eyes.

Goodnight.