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A former Trump official admitted he helped Rudy Giuliani with the fake electors scheme


Manwon Lender
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The illegitimate electors' plan had Trump supporters in seven states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin – submit documents to Congress falsely claiming Trump won the states despite the majority of votes actually going to Joe Biden, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group American Oversight in March 2021. A former Trump campaign adviser admitted to playing a role in a scheme to have illegitimate pro-Trump supporters falsely certify the election for him in seven states won by President Joe Biden. MSNBC host Ari Melber asked Boris Epshteyn on Friday if he ever worked on or supported the elector scheme. "Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard, and would be successful," Epshteyn said. 

A former Trump official admitted he helped Rudy Giuliani with the fake electors scheme (msn.com)

January 6 select committee subpoenas Trump lawyers including Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis

Rep. Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the bipartisan panel, said in a statement that the four lawyers "advanced unsupported theories about election fraud, pushed efforts to overturn the election results, or were in direct contact with the former President about attempts to stop the counting of electoral votes." 

1.  Giuliani "actively promoted claims of election fraud" on Trump's behalf "and sought to convince state legislators to take steps to overturn the election results," the statement said

2.  Ellis, meanwhile, wrote two memos outlining far-fetched legal theories for how then Vice President Mike Pence could reject certain Electoral College votes and throw the election to Trump.

3.  Powell spearheaded a number of failed lawsuits that sought to overturn or nullify the election results in battleground states that Joe Biden won. She also "actively promoted claims of election fraud on behalf of former President Trump" in both the lawsuits she filed and in her media appearances, the select committee said in its statement.

4.  And Epshteyn is said to have attended a number of meetings at the Willard Hotel in Washington, DC, which were led by Giuliani and focused on installing Trump in the White House for a second term despite the fact that he lost the election to Biden.

January 6 Committee Subpoenas Giuliani, Powell, Ellis (businessinsider.com)

 
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This is unbelievable in the video above Trump tries to push the Electoral Fraud committed by Republicans off onto the shoulders of Vise President Pence. When the Vise President was the only member of the Trump Administrations inner circle who would not participate in the fraud that was sponsored by then President Trump. The Vise President would not play a part in the sponsored fraud that President Trump had set in motion that was to take place the count of electoral votes in the Capital on 01/06/2021.

The following video clearly shows how the Vice President Pence changed the oral counting procedure and removed fraudulent voting documents and then made certain only the legitimate documents were used. This clearly provides proof that Vice President Pence would not sacrifice his honor and integrity like the other members of the Trump Administration inner circle clear did! I don’t think people realize as yet the far reaching consequences this crime or the legal actions currently being prepared by the Attorney General of the United States are going to reach.

The following video clearly shows the changes to traditional electoral vote counts and how the Vice President removed the fraudulent documents and only read and counted the actual documents from the election results, my hat is off to the Vise President for acting responsible.
 

@Tatetopa @zep73 @Golden Duck @Doug1066  @psyche101     Thought you may want to see this thing are progressing and heading for Trump door!         

Edited by Manwon Lender
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The bad thing is, all these efforts were done without a shred of proof that there was election or voter fraud on a scale to overturn the election to this very day.

In essence had they succeeded, it would have all been for Trump's pride, and not legitimacy.

He would have overturned the will of many voters, and sit as a traitor in the Oval office. He would have betrayed them, and country.

THIS IS FACT

Unless of course one person on this planet can produce the EVIDENCE needed to refute my claim and prove election or voter fraud.

Edited by South Alabam
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Just now, Manwon Lender said:

This is unbelievable in the video above Trump tries to push the Electoral Fraud committed by Republicans off onto the shoulders of Vise President Pence. When the Vise President was the only member of the Trump Administrations inner circle who would not participate in the fraud that was sponsored by then President Trump. The Vise President would not play a part in the sponsored fraud that President Trump had set in motion that was to take place the count of electoral votes in the Capital on 01/06/2021.

The following video clearly shows how the Vice President Pence changed the oral counting procedure and removed fraudulent voting documents and then made certain only the legitimate documents were used. This clearly provides proof that Vice President Pence would not sacrifice his honor and integrity like the other members of the Trump Administration inner circle clear did! I don’t think people realize as yet the far reaching consequences this crime or the legal actions currently being prepared by the Attorney General of the United States are going to reach.

The following video clearly shows the changes to traditional electoral vote counts and how the Vice President removed the fraudulent documents and only read and counted the actual documents from the election results, my hat is off to the Vise President for acting responsible.
 

 

Really sad, dozens of people including Trump tried to overturn this election, and Pence was the only one who did right. And it was a give me, that Trump won't take any blame.

Edited by South Alabam
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Just now, Manwon Lender said:

The illegitimate electors' plan had Trump supporters in seven states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin – submit documents to Congress falsely claiming Trump won the states despite the majority of votes actually going to Joe Biden, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group American Oversight in March 2021. A former Trump campaign adviser admitted to playing a role in a scheme to have illegitimate pro-Trump supporters falsely certify the election for him in seven states won by President Joe Biden. MSNBC host Ari Melber asked Boris Epshteyn on Friday if he ever worked on or supported the elector scheme. "Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard, and would be successful," Epshteyn said. 

A former Trump official admitted he helped Rudy Giuliani with the fake electors scheme (msn.com)

January 6 select committee subpoenas Trump lawyers including Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis

Rep. Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the bipartisan panel, said in a statement that the four lawyers "advanced unsupported theories about election fraud, pushed efforts to overturn the election results, or were in direct contact with the former President about attempts to stop the counting of electoral votes." 

1.  Giuliani "actively promoted claims of election fraud" on Trump's behalf "and sought to convince state legislators to take steps to overturn the election results," the statement said

2.  Ellis, meanwhile, wrote two memos outlining far-fetched legal theories for how then Vice President Mike Pence could reject certain Electoral College votes and throw the election to Trump.

3.  Powell spearheaded a number of failed lawsuits that sought to overturn or nullify the election results in battleground states that Joe Biden won. She also "actively promoted claims of election fraud on behalf of former President Trump" in both the lawsuits she filed and in her media appearances, the select committee said in its statement.

4.  And Epshteyn is said to have attended a number of meetings at the Willard Hotel in Washington, DC, which were led by Giuliani and focused on installing Trump in the White House for a second term despite the fact that he lost the election to Biden.

January 6 Committee Subpoenas Giuliani, Powell, Ellis (businessinsider.com)

 

Yeah, I get his taking in the video. "Had he sent them back" Then the alternate elector forms would have been used, and Trump would be declared the winner, causing a civil war.

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1 minute ago, South Alabam said:

Yeah, I get his taking in the video. "Had he sent them back" Then the alternate elector forms would have been used, and Trump would be declared the winner, causing a civil war.

There are two videos one recording by Trump we’re he is lying his ass or is it mouth off, and another showing Pence removing the fraudulent documents during vote count and only using the true unaltered documents. Plus all the Rats involved in the Conspiracy are admitting their guilty and everything is leading right back to trumps desk. Check out the thread there are multiple links also read them, it’s hilarious how foolish and ignorant those fools were.:tu:

 

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6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thought you may want to see this thing are progressing and heading for Trump door!         

I saw the original.  I was half asleep, though.  Looks like we're finally making progress.  Hope it's worth the wait.

Doug

Edited by Doug1066
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He has from what I read, but no information on what was said.

Bill Barr has made his position clear on what he thinks of supposed fraud on a level that would have overturned the election.

His two letters were B.S, as I recall.

Edited by South Alabam
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I think the revelations of a lot of these documents Trump tried to shield from the January 6th committee are telling, in the same manner that he filed a lawsuit to stop the NY AG from continuing her investigation.

They were closing in, and he knew this. 

Fake electors, already filled out on paperwork waiting for Pence to reject the real electors, and declare Trump the winner. 

The thing is, Trump said, "If Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election".

So this 100% proves Trump was part of this plot, because the constitution allows the President of the Senate (Pence) to do nothing but to open the sealed ballots presented from each state, and count the votes.

Trump has called the Jan 6th committee a "partisan witch hunt" and it appears to be not a witch hunt, but a real look at an attempted overthrow of lawfully elected officials.

 

Just like the NY AG Trump properties investigation, which Trump has called a "witch hunt" it appears that Michael Cohen was 100% right. Trump has inflated properties etc.. So no witch hunt, but factual.

 

Seeing that the Russia investigation was a "witch hunt" he now throws those words around anytime he gets backed into a corner, imo.

Edited by South Alabam
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Quote

"Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard, and would be successful," Epshteyn said. 

So, they created “alternate electors” in the “hopes” their challenges would be “heard and accepted”? …but they ultimately weren’t heard or accepted so there was never the opportunity to introduce the prepared alternate electors?  So, what’s the significance of him “admitting” this? I thought this was already known?

This conspiracy theory reminds me of another conspiracy theory pushed by these same CNN, MSNBC “Maddow” players for years on end….. 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

CNN can use word like “admitted” and “fake” in their “reporting” but that doesn’t make it any more significant than any number of the “very credible” “bombshell” reports they constantly strung their viewers along with the Russia hoax…..
 

Quote

Despite report findings, almost half of Americans think Trump colluded with Russia: Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-poll/despite-report-findings-almost-half-of-americans-think-trump-colluded-with-russia-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1R72S0

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15 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So, they created “alternate electors” in the “hopes” their challenges would be “heard and accepted”? …but they ultimately weren’t heard or accepted so there was never the opportunity to introduce the prepared alternate electors?  So, what’s the significance of him “admitting” this? I thought this was already known?

This conspiracy theory reminds me of another conspiracy theory pushed by these same CNN, MSNBC “Maddow” players for years on end….. 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

CNN can use word like “admitted” and “fake” in their “reporting” but that doesn’t make it any more significant than any number of the “very credible” “bombshell” reports they constantly strung their viewers along with the Russia hoax…..
 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-poll/despite-report-findings-almost-half-of-americans-think-trump-colluded-with-russia-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1R72S0

Is that all you can say, honestly wow!

What you arecactually witnessing is the end of the road for Trump, and the sycophant Republican Representatives that enabled him. They tried to steal and election by committing fraud, which is the very thing Trump accused the Democrats of. The only part of their plan that failed, was the fact that the Vice President would not commit treason. So what does Trump do ( intentionally) he sirs up his base at his rally, then tells them let’s walk down to the Capital and continue it on the lawn. Then Trump runs off to the White House to watch the situation devolve into a insurrection and for two hours doesn’t lift a finger to do anything about it.

Now let’s go back to the Rally, when he discovers that the Vice President didn’t read the fraudulent electoral vote documents he becomes angry and stirs up the crowd telling them the Vice President has betrayed him and this causes the insurrectionists to go to the Capital trying to find Pence and screaming HANG MIKE PENCE. Now you make up any fantasy you choose to, so that this is more palatable and easier for you swallow! But that isn’t go to stop the current Attorney General of the United States from charging the conspirators ( including Trump ) and prosecuting them.

Have a nice day!

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43 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

This article is from before the report was even released.  This article is based off of the Barr memo.

Question:  Did the Trump campaign meet with a Kremlin connected lawyer at Trump Tower because she promised dirt on a political opponent?  Then, did Trump lie about the meeting every step of the way, until he couldn't anymore?

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32 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

This article is from before the report was even released.  This article is based off of the Barr memo.

Question:  Did the Trump campaign meet with a Kremlin connected lawyer at Trump Tower because she promised dirt on a political opponent?  Then, did Trump lie about the meeting every step of the way, until he couldn't anymore?

Yea his son met her, as would any politician in his shoes. She had nothing. So what?? I don’t recall him telling any lies about it. 

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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

So, they created “alternate electors” in the “hopes” their challenges would be “heard and accepted”? …but they ultimately weren’t heard or accepted so there was never the opportunity to introduce the prepared alternate electors?  So, what’s the significance of him “admitting” this? I thought this was already known?

This conspiracy theory reminds me of another conspiracy theory pushed by these same CNN, MSNBC “Maddow” players for years on end….. 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

CNN can use word like “admitted” and “fake” in their “reporting” but that doesn’t make it any more significant than any number of the “very credible” “bombshell” reports they constantly strung their viewers along with the Russia hoax…..
 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-poll/despite-report-findings-almost-half-of-americans-think-trump-colluded-with-russia-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1R72S0

Does it specify if this plan was made before or after election day?

If the report shows they started making this plan before the election even happened than thats pretty significant 

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1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Does it specify if this plan was made before or after election day?

If the report shows they started making this plan before the election even happened than thats pretty significant 

I’m not sure if that matters. Both Democrats and Republicans accused each other of attempting to rig 2020 before the election.

If the Democrats really believe 2022 & 2024 elections could be illegitimate, do you think they are thinking about possible plans of action? 

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3 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Yea his son met her, as would any politician in his shoes. She had nothing. So what?? I don’t recall him telling any lies about it. 

Why would any politician met her, in secret meeting without government consent. Under those circumstances its illegal it amounts to the same crime that General Treason was imprisoned for!:no:

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3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Does it specify if this plan was made before or after election day?

If the report shows they started making this plan before the election even happened than thats pretty significant 

Why, either way it is still a treasonous seditious act, to interfere with election results and defraud the United states people and Government. In reality there is no difference when it was planned only that it was planned and carried out!

Edited by Manwon Lender
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2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

I’m not sure if that matters. Both Democrats and Republicans accused each other of attempting to rig 2020 before the election.

If the Democrats really believe 2022 & 2024 elections could be illegitimate, do you think they are thinking about possible plans of action? 

What they are going to do is take Trump off the playing board by exposing his treasonous Seditious acting by being the leader of election fraud. Its going to be very difficult for him to weasel his way out of this, because of the confessions of those implemented the election fraud by creating the forged documents and submitting them. If they had never submitted them everything would have been hearsay, however since the actual signed documents are currently in the pocession of the Attoney General of the United States it is impossible so say this is fake news!

My only question to you is how will you carry on without being in Trumps sphere of influence?

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So who paid for all the investigations into his outright lies about stolen elections?

The geniuses at the rallies? 

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7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So who paid for all the investigations into his outright lies about stolen elections?

The geniuses at the rallies? 

Thats not really possible, unfortunately Trumps base is not financially part of the upper Middle Class or above. Whats most sad is the fact that Trump bled is base way beyond what they could afford, but did Don care hell no he just keeps asking for more!!:(

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5 hours ago, el midgetron said:

I thought this was already known?

It was already known and not the first time it has been tried.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/14/republicans-in-key-battleground-states-create-alternate-slate-of-electors-to-keep-trumps-legal-challenges-afloat/
 

Quote

 

This is not the first time in history that the U.S. has grappled with the concept of an alternate slate of electors.

“In 1876, dueling electors in three states were deadlocked until a deal was brokered days before Inauguration Day,” Reuters reported.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thats not really possible, unfortunately Trumps base is not financially part of the upper Middle Class or above. Whats most sad is the fact that Trump bled is base way beyond what they could afford, but did Don care hell no he just keeps asking for more!!:(

I wonder what the final cost actually was 

The court cases and investigations had to be paid for by someone.

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16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard, and would be successful," Epshteyn said. 

That doesn’t sound illegal. Just sayin’

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Below is a full copy of the Eastman Memo: This memo completely spells out the how the Trump Adminstration intended to steal and defraud the Electoral procedings. How The Newly Revealed ‘Eastman Memo’ Fits Into Trump’s Election Theft Conspiracy and it ties Donald trump directly to the Conspiracy. Tuesday morning published a copy of the so-called “Eastman Memo,” a two-page document from conservative lawyer John Eastman advising then-President Donald Trump’s legal team on a strategy to overturn the election results from the House floor.

After the election, Eastman represented the Trump campaign in its attempt to intervene in several Republican states’ unsuccessful attempt to have the Supreme Court overturn the election. “You really need to listen to John,” Trump told Pence in the Jan. 4 meeting with Eastman, according to CNN’s description of “Peril”’s reporting. “He’s a respected constitutional scholar. Hear him out.”

Pence reportedly sought out his own counsel too, including from the Senate parliamentarian and former Vice President Dan Quayle — both of whom said his authority included counting the Electoral College votes and nothing more.  Pence opted to take that advice and count the Electoral College votes as the states had submitted them, certifying Biden’s win. How The Newly Revealed ‘Eastman Memo’ Fits Into Trump’s Election Theft Conspiracy (msn.com)

 

PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL

January 6 scenario 7 states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the President of the Senate. The 12th Amendment merely provides that “the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” There is very solid legal authority, and historical precedent, for the view that the President of the Senate does the counting, including the resolution of disputed electoral votes (as Adams and Jefferson did while Vice President, regarding their own election as President), and all the Members of Congress can do is watch. The Electoral Count Act, which is likely unconstitutional, provides: If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State;

But in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.

This is the piece that we believe is unconstitutional. It allows the two houses, “acting separately,” to decide the question, whereas the 12th Amendment provides only for a joint session. And if there is disagreement, under the Act the slate certified by the “executive” of the state is to be counted, regardless of the evidence that exists regarding the election, and regardless of whether there was ever fair review of what happened in the election, by judges and/or state legislatures. So here’s the scenario we propose:

Page 1

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the Electoral Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).

2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.

3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well

5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.

6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

Page 2 

Here is cloud link to the memo: Eastman memo - DocumentCloud

@OverSword @psyche101 @AgentOrange @South Alabam @Tatetopa

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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