CDC: Study Confirms Natural Immunity Stronger Than Vaccines

[thedutchiedutch]

Makes sense nothing new here but understand that it's like playing roulette with your life, you are unvaccinated, so you are rolling the dice whether you will survive in the first place to recover and have a stronger immune system against the virus. Question is are you willing to take that risk or better be safe than sorry and get vaccinated ? 

[taniwha]

3 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Makes sense nothing new here but understand that it's like playing roulette with your life, you are unvaccinated, so you are rolling the dice whether you will survive in the first place to recover and have a stronger immune system against the virus. Question is are you willing to take that risk or better be safe than sorry and get vaccinated ? 

No.

When it comes to covid mortalities that is incorrect.

Catching covid doesn't present the same risk for everyone across the board unless your roulette game were rigged.

Remember pre-vaccine the deaths were low by comparison of total infected, less than 1% overall, probably less even than that, because not every person on the planet was tested. A survival rate of 99% is far from a level playing field.

Even if the odds were equal (which they aren't) you would have to be unlucky enough to find the 1 bullet in a revolver with 99 other empty chambers. The odds are  heavily stacked on survival.

But the harsh reality is going by the statistics alone that most those who survived covid were spinning an empty barrel.  They were never at any risk of dying and carry natural immunity for a long length afterwards.

Those that did die well they had age, comorbidities and questionable treatments, so it was more like playing the game with a loaded gun.

Manwon posted the roulette scenario earlier so I take this opportunity to debunk you both. 

Thanks for your contribution though 

 

[Only_]

13 hours ago, stereologist said:

Do you realize you are referring to an article that is months before omicron?

What I refered to is still very much on. Israel is considering dropping the Green Pass.

''Sources in the Health Ministry confirmed on Thursday that the Green Pass mandate is about to be scrapped since it appears to be "irrelevant" in the face of the Omicron variant of coronavirus. ''

https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/rkji11ai6f

Omicron does not discriminate between the vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Only_

[Only_]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:52 PM, psyche101 said:

The links state adequate vaccination which I think is quite different. 

The definition of adequately, appropriately or fully vaccinated is still 2 doses in most countries.

The booster shot is recommended  but is not included in the definition of ''fully vaccinated''.

Hope this clear things up for you.

[thedutchiedutch]

3 hours ago, taniwha said:

No.

When it comes to covid mortalities that is incorrect.

Catching covid doesn't present the same risk for everyone across the board unless your roulette game were rigged.

Remember pre-vaccine the deaths were low by comparison of total infected, less than 1% overall, probably less even than that, because not every person on the planet was tested. A survival rate of 99% is far from a level playing field.

Even if the odds were equal (which they aren't) you would have to be unlucky enough to find the 1 bullet in a revolver with 99 other empty chambers. The odds are  heavily stacked on survival.

But the harsh reality is going by the statistics alone that most those who survived covid were spinning an empty barrel.  They were never at any risk of dying and carry natural immunity for a long length afterwards.

Those that did die well they had age, comorbidities and questionable treatments, so it was more like playing the game with a loaded gun.

Manwon posted the roulette scenario earlier so I take this opportunity to debunk you both. 

Thanks for your contribution though  
 

 

But we might have underlying medical conditions that we are not aware of. So why play with fire ? Like I said, better safe than sorry.
Furthermore, in regards to the study, it claims that it could however be impacted by an effect known as “selection bias,” since it excluded people who died, who were overwhelmingly unvaccinated and other, earlier studies claim the opposite. It claims that the vaccine is the best protection against getting COVID-19, whether you have already had the virus or not. So in my opinion more studies and research on this topic is needed. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by thedutchiedutch

[Freez1]

Great because I’m stuck at home with Covid and I was vaccinated in August. It’s about whipped my ass. But maybe not as bad as it could have been.

[taniwha]

50 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

But we might have underlying medical conditions that we are not aware of. So why play with fire ? Like I said, better safe than sorry.
Furthermore, in regards to the study, it claims that it could however be impacted by an effect known as “selection bias,” since it excluded people who died, who were overwhelmingly unvaccinated and other, earlier studies claim the opposite. It claims that the vaccine is the best protection against getting COVID-19, whether you have already had the virus or not. So in my opinion more studies and research on this topic is needed. 

But that's the point isn't it?

99% of the people were 'safe' and only 1% were 'sorry' 

With those odds why would any government mandate vaccinations over natural immunity?  The choice should be offered I agree, but not forced onto anyone.

With those odds people who choose not, shouldn't loose their jobs or livelihoods or be reduced to a 3rd class status either.

It's an individual's choice. Antibody testing might be a key indicator of who is more at risk than blanket bombing a population with MRNAs as it is still too early to gauge the impact or extent of all the serious adverse side effects coming to light, including but not limited to auto immune deficiencies and death. 

So the vaccines are not 100% without cause for concern they too can contain a bullet for some, in that respect the rollout is still experimental, that is the reason you conclude that more studies and research is needed.

[taniwha]

1 hour ago, Freez1 said:

Great because I’m stuck at home with Covid and I was vaccinated in August. It’s about whipped my ass. But maybe not as bad as it could have been.

That's 6 months since... Did you miss the booster or forego it?

[taniwha]

1 hour ago, Only_ said:

What I refered to is still very much on. Israel is considering dropping the Green Pass.

''Sources in the Health Ministry confirmed on Thursday that the Green Pass mandate is about to be scrapped since it appears to be "irrelevant" in the face of the Omicron variant of coronavirus. ''

https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/rkji11ai6f

Omicron does not discriminate between the vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Great!  Let's hope so.  It's only a pass into a fools paradise!

[stereologist]

On 1/25/2022 at 2:25 PM, taniwha said:

Where is your evidence proving your claim that Dr Campbell is a crank please?

And what exactly do you mean by 'crank'?

As importantly, what are your personal medical qualifications?

He can't figure out the numbers and he promoted ivermectin and HCQ. Already posted that.

Ivermectin and HCQ have been shown to not work.

Follow the science or you can be a crank like Campbell.

[stereologist]

On 1/25/2022 at 2:42 PM, taniwha said:

As has been pointed out over and  over and over ..... and over to you natural immunity kicks during

 RE-INFECTION 

Where is your data proving 33.33% of re-infected people have no signs of natural immunity?

AND what are you even on about?

Many more people infected by covid-19 don't show any sign either, it doesn't mean they don't have it.

As for natural immunity waning faster than vaccines the CDC data doesn't support that claim, you made that up 

Already posted the evidence in this thread. If you choose not to follow the thread then so be it.

Problems with natural immunity:

• Roughly 1/3 of people infected with COVID-19 do not show signs of natural immunity
• Natural immunity wanes faster than vaccine induced immunity

Being asymptomatic has nothing to do with the 1/3. You really don't understand the issues or take the time to follow the posted evidence.

And actually I posted the evidence in this thread that natural immunity fades faster than vaccine induced immunity.

You have proved multiple times that you are not following the thread.

[stereologist]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:05 PM, taniwha said:

Great it appears you stumbled onto the exact same data that that Doctor on YouTube you keep cranking on about references 

Screenshot courtesy of Isabella's posting above

 

 

Are you really as clueless as you sugest?

The answer to your laughable guess is that you are wrong.

[psyche101]

On 1/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, taniwha said:

Where is your evidence proving your claim that Dr Campbell is a crank please?

Firstly, that poster is famous for misinformation and self congratulatory posts. She gets called out a lot but never defends her position.

Secondly Dr Campbell isn't actually a doctor. He is a qualified nurse.

Thirdly I'd like to ask what is compelling about a nobody who was never heard of before the pandemic and isn't actually qualified to speak about treatments? 

Many people are dropping the bar to fringe nobodies who say what they want to hear. 

Evidence. Alrighty then.

Did invermectin curb Covid on Japan as Campbell claimed?

No it did not. 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/coronavirus-fact-check-did-mutations-or-ivermectin-help-stamp-out-delta-in-japan.html

Do vaccines cause heart attacks?

No. And... Myocarditis is a rare clotting disorder not heart disease or failure. Ignorant people could be forgiven for confusing the two thanks to this nurse.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/no-credible-evidence-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-dramatically-increase-heart-attack-risk-contrary-to-flawed-abstract/

 

Claiming deaths are heavily overstated.

I just cleared this up for you in another post. The information I shared is information he must be full aware of. He is fear mongering for his own benefit there.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/24/youtube-videos/no-death-totals-covid-19-england-have-not-been-ove/

 

On 1/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, taniwha said:

And what exactly do you mean by 'crank'?

He is lying about credential, making things up and spreading them as if fact.

On 1/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, taniwha said:

As importantly, what are your personal medical qualifications?

I have none. My little sister is on the breast cancer team at Edinburgh University. She can decipher terms and phrases for me quite adequately. 

As you people thrive on video clips rather than reading........ 

This guy actually is a doctor and takes a more honest and transparent approach. It can be considered an official rebuttal to nurse Campbell's claims. 

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

On 1/23/2022 at 4:12 PM, stereologist said:

This seems to have been left out

You and I both know that it was intentional.

[stereologist]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:13 PM, taniwha said:

No.

When it comes to covid mortalities that is incorrect.

Catching covid doesn't present the same risk for everyone across the board unless your roulette game were rigged.

Remember pre-vaccine the deaths were low by comparison of total infected, less than 1% overall, probably less even than that, because not every person on the planet was tested. A survival rate of 99% is far from a level playing field.

Even if the odds were equal (which they aren't) you would have to be unlucky enough to find the 1 bullet in a revolver with 99 other empty chambers. The odds are  heavily stacked on survival.

But the harsh reality is going by the statistics alone that most those who survived covid were spinning an empty barrel.  They were never at any risk of dying and carry natural immunity for a long length afterwards.

Those that did die well they had age, comorbidities and questionable treatments, so it was more like playing the game with a loaded gun.

Manwon posted the roulette scenario earlier so I take this opportunity to debunk you both. 

Thanks for your contribution though 

 

Again clueless about the course of the disease. The issue is not whether you die or not. But first we examine that issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/pdf/2020-11-24-Science-Update_FINAL_public.pdf

Quote

Adjusted mortality from COVID-19 decreased from 25.6% in March 2020 to 7.6% in August 2020.

At first it was unclear how to treat people and they died. As more experience with the disease occurred fewer people died. Now the death rate is far lower.

If we check out the Johns Hopkins site we see that the death  rate is around 1.2% now in the US.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

And we see that this is just utter made up nonsense: "Those that did die well they had age, comorbidities and questionable treatments, so it was more like playing the game with a loaded gun."

That's the sort of dubious nonsense made up by those that have no idea what they are vomiting into this thread.

[stereologist]

Now onto a more complete story of COVID-19 and the infections.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Quote

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can also damage many other organs, including the heart, kidneys and the brain. Organ damage may lead to health complications that linger after COVID-19 illness. In some people, lasting health effects may include long-term breathing problems, heart complications, chronic kidney impairment, stroke and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis.

Some adults and children experience multisystem inflammatory syndrome after they have had COVID-19. In this condition, some organs and tissues become severely inflamed.

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/life/wellness/healthy-you/you-may-never-get-over-your-covid-cough/69-66e70481-1db3-4c37-847b-452c56f16ea0

Quote

And now a new study from the National Institutes of Health has discovered that COVID physically changes lung tissue and damages the immune system. Dr. Andrew Jamison and infectious disease specialists from Mercy Health who read the study says the results show COVID can cause  severe debilitating damage that has long lasting effects.

https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/covid-19-infection-may-cause-irreversible-brain-damage-775750/

Quote

COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, is turning out to be more dangerous than it was thought earlier. Although it primarily infects the respiratory system, it is also causing damage to other organs such as the heart, liver, kidneys, brain, eyes and gut. Researchers, including scientists from Baylor College of Medicine in the US, have also warned that infection with the novel coronavirus may lead to permanent brain damage.

About one-third of COVID-19 patients have abnormalities in the frontal lobe of the brain, revealed an analysis of more than 80 studies reporting coronavirus complications. These abnormalities were detected using electroencephalogram (EEG) scans. This brain damage could explain the neurological symptoms experienced by the COVID-19 patients, the researchers noted in a report published in Seizure: European Journal of Epilepsy.

https://europe-cities.com/2022/01/23/half-of-the-first-wave-covid-cases-can-have-permanent-damage-to-the-sense-of-smell-long-covid/

Quote

Their early findings show that 18 months after recovering from Covid, very few people – only 4% – had completely lost their sense of smell, but a third had a reduced ability to detect odors and almost half complained of parosmia, where the feeling of smell is distorted. Most of those with impaired sense of smell were unaware of this before joining the study.

The researchers then ran the same tests on a control group of people who tested negative for Covid antibodies, indicating that they had managed to avoid the virus. About one-fifth were found to have similar deficiencies in their sense of smell, suggesting that odor disorders were common in the general population before Covid struck.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/health/covid-kidney-damage.html

Quote

In a study of veterans, Covid survivors were 35 percent more likely than other patients to have long-term kidney damage or declines in kidney function.

https://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/32/11/2851

[jmccr8]

21 hours ago, Only_ said:

The definition of adequately, appropriately or fully vaccinated is still 2 doses in most countries.

The booster shot is recommended  but is not included in the definition of ''fully vaccinated''.

Hope this clear things up for you.

Hi Taniwha

 The stats were somewhat confusing when a claim the 79% had one shot and 90% were fully vaxed (2shots) which to me works out to 17% were fully vaxed

[stereologist]

There are those that pretend you get sick, little chance of dying and that is it.

Wrong, so very very wrong.

The deaths which have been far higher before the vaccines has been well known.

The attack on multiple organs has been well known.

[F3SS]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:42 PM, Only_ said:

The definition of adequately, appropriately or fully vaccinated is still 2 doses in most countries.

The booster shot is recommended  but is not included in the definition of ''fully vaccinated''.

Hope this clear things up for you.

Fully vaccinated isn't recognized anymore. "Up to date" is the new term. 

[thedutchiedutch]

On 1/26/2022 at 1:04 AM, taniwha said:

But that's the point isn't it?

99% of the people were 'safe' and only 1% were 'sorry' 

With those odds why would any government mandate vaccinations over natural immunity?  The choice should be offered I agree, but not forced onto anyone.

With those odds people who choose not, shouldn't loose their jobs or livelihoods or be reduced to a 3rd class status either.

It's an individual's choice. Antibody testing might be a key indicator of who is more at risk than blanket bombing a population with MRNAs as it is still too early to gauge the impact or extent of all the serious adverse side effects coming to light, including but not limited to auto immune deficiencies and death. 

So the vaccines are not 100% without cause for concern they too can contain a bullet for some, in that respect the rollout is still experimental, that is the reason you conclude that more studies and research is needed.

My point is better safe than sorry so I get vaccinated. In regards to the studies what I meant is that more studies and research is needed in regards to natural immunity vs vaccines because different studies are counteracting each other. I do agree that it should be a choice to get vaccinated yes or no but at the same token if you choose not to get vaccinated you will have to put up with the restrictions. It's that simple. 

[Only_]

4 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

My point is better safe than sorry so I get vaccinated. In regards to the studies what I meant is that more studies and research is needed in regards to natural immunity vs vaccines because different studies are counteracting each other. I do agree that it should be a choice to get vaccinated yes or no but at the same token if you choose not to get vaccinated you will have to put up with the restrictions. It's that simple. 

If we are really for the freedom of choice, there shouldn't be any restriction for someone who choose not to be vaccinated.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Only_

[thedutchiedutch]

12 minutes ago, Only_ said:

If we are really for the freedom of choice, there shouldn't be any restriction for someone who choose not to be vaccinated.

In that case I guess I am not really for freedom of choice. 

[jmccr8]

27 minutes ago, Only_ said:

If we are really for the freedom of choice, there shouldn't be any restriction for someone who choose not to be vaccinated.

Hi Only

Yes and choices have consequences that we all have to live with no exceptions

[stereologist]

40 minutes ago, Only_ said:

If we are really for the freedom of choice, there shouldn't be any restriction for someone who choose not to be vaccinated.

Ridiculous. If you choose to be a threat to others then restrictions are required.

Babies cannot be vaccinated. You want to allow people to be baby killers?

Transplant recipients have reduced immune systems. You want to allow people to kill transplant recipients?

Cancer patients have reduced immune systems. You want to allow people to kill cancer survivors?

 

[stereologist]

No matter how often you point out that COVID-19 is not a binary disease: you die or you survive, there are still those that think that is the case. There are horrible repercussions with COVID-19. In 10 or 20 years we might have huge numbers of dialysis clinics keeping the victims of COVID-19 alive. Will that happen? Science is still trying to find out. Is lung damage going to be so prevalent that in the future there will be people looking for housing with built in oxygen concentrators. Will that happen? Science is still trying to find out. This is a nasty disease.