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CDC: Study Confirms Natural Immunity Stronger Than Vaccines


taniwha

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4 minutes ago, toast said:

From the article:

Thats yesterdays news, Sherlock. Ever heard of the variant named OMICRON? It seems not. You continue to make yourself look like a fool, dont you see that?

It is relevant with the CDC study, remind yourself to re-read the original post...

CDC: Study Confirms Natural Immunity Stronger Than Vaccines

Six Times Better Protection Against Delta

Toast, Toast, Toast :no: only a fool p***es into the wind!

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34 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes it certainly is for both mental and physical health my friend. But getting back to your thread, the best thing to keep in mind is that information concerning this Pandemic can’t be obtained from media sources. All media sources put there their own spin on the information they report and it’s always bias in one way or the other. What I do is read the reputable media sources, to find out what Medical Journal they are using to support their article. Then I go to that journal and read it and then base my comments on the report in the journal.

By doing this people can’t argue with your comments,  because the Peer Review process used takes the bias out of medical and scientific journals. Not all journals are peer reviewed though, however even then in most cases the information is always better than information reported directly from media sites. However, it still takes critical thinking and research to come to the correct conclusions. This is a major problem when discussing this subject on the forum, far to many people only start threads with non-scientific articles that already fit their thought process.

The problem with not keeping an open mind, is that by only maintaining your current opinion one is unable to learn new things and to ever get an understanding of the real course and on going ever changing events occurring with this Virus and the Pandemic in general!

Peace and good luck! :tu:

:nw: Kudos to you, sir. 

And same to you! :tu:

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6 hours ago, Only_ said:

Omicron has become 80% dominant in Quebec barely 3 weeks after the first case was detected.

That would be well before the end of December. Second or third week. Making previous statistics relevant which showed throughout December that the large majority of people in hospital were not vaccinated..

6 hours ago, Only_ said:

That means 8 out of 10 infections of SRAS-Cov-2 could be attributed to Omicron.

Omicron spread very, very rapidly. It is very contagious, and has infected many fully vaccinated people.

Omicron Makes Up 80% Of Quebec COVID-19 Cases After Just Three Weeks

https://www.mtlblog.com/omicron-makes-up-80-of-quebec-covid-19-cases-after-just-three-weeks

And yet the official data says.......

 

7 hours ago, stereologist said:

image.png.badcc79170c52a5bfd61a11f8e80f19e.png

That unvaccinated people dominate. All the way through. 

The Daily counts your referring to paint an incorrect overall picture.

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6 hours ago, Only_ said:

90% of population in Quebec are fully vaccinated (have received 2 doses).

85,5% of the population have received at least one dose.

 

5 hours ago, stereologist said:

Your site makes it abundantly clear that only 85% of the population has had at least 1 dose. 

This seems to be your sticking point only.

I'm not convinced that your definition of fully vaccinated is correct. Omicron is a new variant, it requires the booster. That's the definition fully vaccinated against all variants of Covid.

Your medical officers and government define adequately vaccinated differently to you. 

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1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

That would be well before the end of December. Second or third week. Making previous statistics relevant which showed throughout December that the large majority of people in hospital were not vaccinated..

And yet the official data says.......

In a news release issued on December 21, the Institut national de santé publique du Québec (INSPQ) announced that approximately 80% of the province's COVID-19 cases — or 8 out of every 10 — can be attributed to the Omicron variant.''

https://www.mtlblog.com/omicron-makes-up-80-of-quebec-covid-19-cases-after-just-three-weeks

All the data you posted was early December, when there was only a few Omicron cases in Quebec.

Your timeline is skewed and isn't on par the Quebec government's recent statistics.

Quote

I'm not convinced that your definition of fully vaccinated is correct. Omicron is a new variant, it requires the booster. That's the definition fully vaccinated against all variants of Covid.

Your medical officers and government define adequately vaccinated differently to you. 

So far the definition of ''fully vaccinated'' by the CDC and Health Canada is people who have received 2 doses.

''CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, said Jan. 5 that the agency has no plans to require a booster shot for people to be considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

"Individuals are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 if they've received their primary series. That definition is not changing," Dr. Walensky said during a White House press briefing.''

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/cdc-definition-of-fully-vaccinated-is-not-changing.html

 

 

Edited by Only_
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39 minutes ago, Only_ said:

In a news release issued on December 21, the Institut national de santé publique du Québec (INSPQ) announced that approximately 80% of the province's COVID-19 cases — or 8 out of every 10 — can be attributed to the Omicron variant.''

https://www.mtlblog.com/omicron-makes-up-80-of-quebec-covid-19-cases-after-just-three-weeks

All the data you posted was early December, when there was only a few Omicron cases in Quebec.

December 2nd to December 15th. 

You don't get an increase by 80% overnight.

39 minutes ago, Only_ said:

Your timeline is skewed and isn't on par the Quebec government's recent statistics.

No it's not. The graph goes well into January based on the daily statistics but offers a very different conclusions to yours .

39 minutes ago, Only_ said:

So far the definition of ''fully vaccinated'' by the CDC and Health Canada is people who have received 2 doses.

''CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, said Jan. 5 that the agency has no plans to require a booster shot for people to be considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

"Individuals are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 if they've received their primary series. That definition is not changing," Dr. Walensky said during a White House press briefing.''

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/cdc-definition-of-fully-vaccinated-is-not-changing.html

The links state adequate vaccination which I think is quite different. 

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Covid-19 is an egregor. It nourishes itself from people's fears. The more fear you have, the more it will grow in your mind. I did a banishing ritual and haven't got covid ever since even though I have been exposed many times.

Edited by Occult1
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1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Covid-19 is an egregor. It nourishes itself from people's fears. The more fear you have, the more it will grow in your mind. I did a banishing ritual and haven't got covid ever since even though I have been exposed many times.

Covid is risk management. Not fear.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-IyCzh0o3cYd77b8w0jS

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I post this because...well... someone has to do it:

 

"Excellent natural immunity confirmed"

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Isabella said:

I post this because...well... someone has to do it:

 

"Excellent natural immunity confirmed"

 

 

 

Excellent unbiased reporting, and breakdown of the facts.

Another win for science and natural immunity.

For anyone else who hasn't watched him before,

Dr John Campbell is double vaccinated and boosted he is one of the best 'tell it how it is' interpreters of medical data on you tube today.

Great find Isabella, it was a breath of fresh air to watch.

Thanks for posting! :tu:

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1 minute ago, taniwha said:

Excellent unbiased reporting, and breakdown of the facts.

Another win for science and natural immunity.

For anyone else who hasn't watched him before,

Dr John Campbell is double vaccinated and boosted he is one of the best 'tell it how it is' interpreters of medical data on you tube today.

Great find Isabella, it was a breath of fresh air to watch.

Thanks for posting! :tu:

 

You are welcome.  :cat:

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16 hours ago, taniwha said:

 August 2021

Israeli study: Natural immunity gives better protection than COVID shot

Study based on Maccabi Health data finds that natural immunity based on prior infection offers considerably better protection than 2 doses.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/312637

That was from August last year and was never published.

Here is the link form the article https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Quote

 

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15 hours ago, taniwha said:

From the first article.  We already know that vaccinations are not 100%. We already know that natural immunity is not 100%.

Quote
  • But this should not be surprising, according to epidemiologist Katelyn Jetelina, per The Washington Post.
  • “The more vaccinated a population, the more we’ll hear of the vaccinated getting infected,” she said.

The second article is from a week ago

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15 hours ago, Only_ said:

That doesn't change the facts.

If 90% of the 12 old years+ population who have received the regular formulation is fully vaccinated (2 doses)

And

78,72% of the entire population is fully vaccinated (2 doses)

 

That still means Quebec has one the highest vaccination rates in the world.

You are moving the goalposts.

 

I have never disputed how Quebec ranks in the world with its vaccination rate. That's some extraneous issue you keep bringing up.

And no, I am not moving any goalposts. I'm just making sure you don't misrepresent the situation.

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15 hours ago, Only_ said:

Most people infected with Omicron in Israel are vaccinated. I've read they are considering dropping the Green Pass for that reason.

Do you realize you are referring to an article that is months before omicron?

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15 hours ago, taniwha said:

It is relevant with the CDC study, remind yourself to re-read the original post...

CDC: Study Confirms Natural Immunity Stronger Than Vaccines

Six Times Better Protection Against Delta

Toast, Toast, Toast :no: only a fool p***es into the wind!

The link in the OP claims an article exists but provides no links to it.

In fact this is what that story stated.

Quote

But authors of paper warn against depending on infection, given the higher risks of hospitalization, long-term impacts and death

The CDC states that natural immunity wanes faster than vaccine immunity.

The study, its authors, or anything identifying the study is not given. If the paper is as recent as claimed that it is unlikely to be a published paper.

 

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7 hours ago, Isabella said:

I post this because...well... someone has to do it:

 

"Excellent natural immunity confirmed"

 

 

 

You are relying on a crank for your information.

Problems with natural immunity:

  • Roughly 1/3 of people infected with COVID-19 do not show signs of natural immunity
  • Natural immunity wanes faster than vaccine induced immunity
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5 hours ago, Isabella said:

psycho 101 often laughs at true science, but I guess he can't help himself. :sleepy:

 

At least some of us care about our fellow human beings and the truth!

So, let the truth win over ridicule!

 

Actually he relies on true science. You just posted a video by a crank.

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This claim of the CDC confirming natural immunity stronger than vaccines does not appear to be true.

I did find this report from the CDC that was invalidly used to support such a claim.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w

The information in this report cannot be used to make such an inference. Why? Because that question is not tested in this data collection. This is a retrospective study.

Quote

These results demonstrate that vaccination protects against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and that surviving a previous infection protects against a reinfection and related hospitalization. Importantly, infection-derived protection was higher after the Delta variant became predominant, a time when vaccine-induced immunity for many persons declined because of immune evasion and immunologic waning (2,5,6). Similar cohort data accounting for booster doses needs to be assessed, as new variants, including Omicron, circulate. Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change with the emergence of new variants, vaccination remains the safest strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections and associated complications; all eligible persons should be up to date with COVID-19 vaccination. Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change.

We see this in the article

Quote

Before the Delta variant became predominant in each state’s U.S. Department of Health and Human Services region (June 26 in Region 9 [California] and July 3 in Region 2 [New York]),*** the highest incidence was among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis; during this time, case rates were relatively low among the three groups with either previous infection or vaccination and were lowest among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis

Bolding is my doing

Later in the progress of the pandemic natural immunity shows some benefit.

Quote

As the Delta variant prevalence increased to >95% (97% in Region 9 and 98% in Region 2 on August 1), rates increased more rapidly among the vaccinated group with no previous COVID-19 diagnosis than among both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis

This does not tell us if natural immunity or vaccine induced immunity is stronger. There are many confounding factors that are not addressed in this retrospective study.

Interestingly this is noted

Quote

As was observed in the present study after July, recent international studies have also demonstrated increased protection in persons with previous infection, with or without vaccination, relative to vaccination alone†††, §§§ (4). This might be due to differential stimulation of the immune response by either exposure type.¶¶¶ Whereas French and Israeli population-based studies noted waning protection from previous infection, this was not apparent in the results from this or other large U.K. and U.S. studies**** (4,8). Further studies are needed to establish duration of protection from previous infection by variant type, severity, and symptomatology, including for the Omicron variant.

They do mention limitations which is important in all proper studies. For example, I list the 4th one. Let's not assume that the results of an infection are the same for all people.

Quote

Fourth, this analysis did not include information on the severity of initial infection and does not account for the full range of morbidity and mortality represented by the groups with previous infections.

 

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The problem with COVID-19 is that it is a man-made virus and designed to be unnaturally infectious. That's why a vaccine is so important. It's similar to how we need toothpaste to compensate for an unnaturally sweet diet, or how we have bullet proof vests to compensate for guns. We have the poison and the cure. The cure is derived from the poison.

Edited by Opus Magnus
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3 hours ago, stereologist said:

Actually he relies on true science. You just posted a video by a crank.

Where is your evidence proving your claim that Dr Campbell is a crank please?

And what exactly do you mean by 'crank'?

As importantly, what are your personal medical qualifications?

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4 hours ago, stereologist said:

You are relying on a crank for your information.

Problems with natural immunity:

  • Roughly 1/3 of people infected with COVID-19 do not show signs of natural immunity
  • Natural immunity wanes faster than vaccine induced immunity

As has been pointed out over and :sleepy: over and over .....:sleepy: and over to you natural immunity kicks during

 RE-INFECTION :sleepy:

Where is your data proving 33.33% of re-infected people have no signs of natural immunity?

AND what are you even on about?

Many more people infected by covid-19 don't show any sign either, it doesn't mean they don't have it.

As for natural immunity waning faster than vaccines the CDC data doesn't support that claim, you made that up :hmm:

Edited by taniwha
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27 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

The problem with COVID-19 is that it is a man-made virus and designed to be unnaturally infectious.

CT BS. There is no scientific evidence that the virus was created by humans.

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3 hours ago, stereologist said:

This claim of the CDC confirming natural immunity stronger than vaccines does not appear to be true.

I did find this report from the CDC that was invalidly used to support such a claim.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w

The information in this report cannot be used to make such an inference. Why? Because that question is not tested in this data collection. This is a retrospective study.

We see this in the article

Bolding is my doing

Later in the progress of the pandemic natural immunity shows some benefit.

This does not tell us if natural immunity or vaccine induced immunity is stronger. There are many confounding factors that are not addressed in this retrospective study.

Interestingly this is noted

They do mention limitations which is important in all proper studies. For example, I list the 4th one. Let's not assume that the results of an infection are the same for all people.

 

Great it appears you stumbled onto the exact same data that that Doctor on YouTube you keep cranking on about references 

Screenshot courtesy of Isabella's posting aboveScreenshot_20220126-085535.jpeg.4bf91479c4428da27759e0d2220fa91e.jpeg

 

 

Edited by taniwha
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Remember that these studies are done by people who are the best in the world.  Each study covers brand new material that nobody has ever seen or analyzed before.  At the moment of discovery, the author was the only person on earth who knew this.  The problem is that the people who do peer reviews are second, third, ..., tenth best in the world.  For that reason, you should wait until findings are confirmed by other studies before betting your life on the result.

Doug

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