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Sea Lions in WA


CryptoGirl
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Sea Lions in Washington could change the Salmon population in the environment. Could this be because of the climate change? How drastically will this effect everyone?

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23 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

Sea Lions in Washington could change the Salmon population in the environment. Could this be because of the climate change? How drastically will this effect everyone?

What are you talking about?   Sea lions have been up and down that coast for a long time.  If they are invading a dock area that they weren't before it is probably because they are looking for food.  

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44 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

Sea Lions in Washington could change the Salmon population in the environment. Could this be because of the climate change? How drastically will this effect everyone?

They will take over the whole solar system by the end of February. Horror!

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45 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

Sea Lions in Washington could change the Salmon population in the environment. Could this be because of the climate change? How drastically will this effect everyone?

I remember in the 80's there were enough sea lions led by one really big one named Herschel that killed off a couple of runs.  They would capture them and take them down to California but they would be back in a few days.  

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https://mynorthwest.com/1207288/sea-lions-shot-herschel-ballard/

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In 1985, a sea lion, not-so-lovingly dubbed Herschel, and his gang of 10 compatriots swam up to Shilshole Bay from California. At first, residents were enamored, as Herschel’s gang set up its home along the docks of the Ballard Locks. Tourist visits to the gang’s spot numbered in the hundreds of thousands.

Soon, though, Herschel and his crew began to decimate the local ecosystem, camping conveniently between the migration of 4,000 steelhead trout and the safety of the fish ladder. Estimates from the time calculate that Herschel was consuming a trout every six minutes, with just one out of every two that passed through his gang’s area successfully making it out alive.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

What are you talking about?   Sea lions have been up and down that coast for a long time.  If they are invading a dock area that they weren't before it is probably because they are looking for food.  

 

6 minutes ago, toast said:

They will take over the whole solar system by the end of February. Horror!

It's more serious than you two know.  See above.

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Sea lions have been following salmon upriver since time immemorial and salmon follow the smelt and the lamprey.  They swim 70 miles up the Colombia river and even into the Willamette river.  They stop at the Oregon City dam on the Willamette and the Bonneville dam on the Colombia.  Smart critters, they hang around the entrance to the fish ladders the salmon use to get around the dams because it is a choke point, a funnel for all of the fish that pack together and want to get further upstream.  The big change was about 100+ years ago when the dams were built that made it harder for fish to get upriver.  That is when the sea lions began to take advantage of their sea food buffet.

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21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It's more serious than you two know.  See above.

Its nature and we have to accept it.

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11 minutes ago, toast said:

Its nature and we have to accept it.

If you had read the article I posted or Tateopas comment then you would know that this isn't simply "nature"  Man made dams with fish ladders have created a chokepoint in the fish migration routs which are enabling sealions a much greater access to the fish than before.  So much so that they have eaten some runs to extinction.

Edited by OverSword
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1 hour ago, toast said:

Its nature and we have to accept it.

We already interfered with nature by building the dams. Seals eat salmon along with all kinds of other fish, but in nature,  they don't have the opportunity to decimate a fish population. Before the dams, the falls stretched a couple hundred feet across the river.  Fish were spread out. Once the fish were into the falls, the seals couldn't get at them.  The  fish ladder openings are roughly 20 feet wide and hundreds of salmon queue there waiting for space to swim up.  To mix metaphors a bit, they are sitting ducks with nowhere else to go.

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Without knowing the full story, let me have a snipe at them anyway..!

My field is the marine sciences, so not directly related to fish ladders and freshwater varieties, but the thing is, when you are dealing with a manmade something-or-other (that's a scientific term..) that is affecting or will potentially affect any/many given species, you examine the entire food chain, and all of the potential predators.. BEFORE you design the dam fish ladder, or farm, or dam, or whatever.  Surely those who were contracted to design the fish ladder should have known who eats who, and thought about the implications of a bottleneck like that.

Call themselves experts, or scientists?  Good Grief.

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1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

BEFORE you design the dam fish ladder, or farm, or dam, or whatever.  Surely those who were contracted to design the fish ladder should have known who eats who, and thought about the implications of a bottleneck like that.

Call themselves experts, or scientists?  Good Grief.

Surely the fish ladders were 1980's  cost and the state of social awareness as much as science in the design   An army corp engineer probably measured rise, length, how much water they could use and cost. When I came up to Oregon around that time, salmon supplies seemed inexhaustible with some control over fishing seasons.  Stream temperature increase and unhatched eggs due to lack of shade  after clear cuts was just gaining some publicity.   Climate change was not a public thing.  The occasional problematic seal was shot, not relocated in those days.  The ladders have been improved a couple of times since.

It was late in that decade I think the Forest Service got serious about buffers of uncut trees along stream banks to prevent pollution, erosion, and provide shade.  Doug might know better. I am rather glad we have made some progress. Live and learn if you are willing.

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OK so some posters here think that Sea Lions have been doing this for a long time so them hanging out in a large group over the weekend in Ballard is nothing new. Posters also mentioned that climate change has more to do with the Salmon population than of Sea Lions eating up the fish population, and some posters feel more inclined to blame man for it.

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7 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

OK so some posters here think that Sea Lions have been doing this for a long time so them hanging out in a large group over the weekend in Ballard is nothing new. Posters also mentioned that climate change has more to do with the Salmon population than of Sea Lions eating up the fish population, and some posters feel more inclined to blame man for it.

Who said that?   I think what was said a few times is that creating the salmon "ladders" around dams made it easy for the Sea Lions to decimate salmon.

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5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who said that?   I think what was said a few times is that creating the salmon "ladders" around dams made it easy for the Sea Lions to decimate salmon.

Exactly that is putting blame on man right?

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4 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

Exactly that is putting blame on man right?

What is your point?   Does it have anything to do with climate change?  Or are you saying the Sea Lions gathering someplace new is due to human induced climate change?

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1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

What is your point?   Does it have anything to do with climate change?  Or are you saying the Sea Lions gathering someplace new is due to human induced climate change?

What are you talking about? A poster is saying that man is partly to blame for problems with the Salmon. Climate change is taking place and will continue to effect life on this planet. Some will notice climate change more drastically than others and its effects on animals and plant life. Like the mystery of the Oaks dying off is due to climate change. Climate change could make waters warmer and Salmon don't like that, so yeh believe climate change a big factor with Salmon population, but other things could be going on as well. Like the Sea Lions are populating more areas where they can deplete the Salmon population and its caused by climate change. As a side thing on my own opinion with this I feel warmer waters will bring in the sharks and they like to eat Sea Lions but also attacks on humans will go up as well and possibly in areas they didn't usually hunt for food in.

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18 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

What are you talking about? A poster is saying that man is partly to blame for problems with the Salmon. Climate change is taking place and will continue to effect life on this planet. Some will notice climate change more drastically than others and its effects on animals and plant life. Like the mystery of the Oaks dying off is due to climate change. Climate change could make waters warmer and Salmon don't like that, so yeh believe climate change a big factor with Salmon population, but other things could be going on as well. Like the Sea Lions are populating more areas where they can deplete the Salmon population and its caused by climate change. As a side thing on my own opinion with this I feel warmer waters will bring in the sharks and they like to eat Sea Lions but also attacks on humans will go up as well and possibly in areas they didn't usually hunt for food in.

Why didn't you just say that in your OP?   

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9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why didn't you just say that in your OP?   

I'm putting out there others posts if people want my opinion  than I will answer like I just did. I also will tell you that I feel earthquakes are responsible more for climate change not humans.

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6 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

I'm putting out there others posts if people want my opinion  than I will answer like I just did. I also will tell you that I feel earthquakes are responsible more for climate change not humans.

That is not how discussion works.  You ask questions, you give your opinion or thoughts.  Otherwise you are fishing and misleading others in to discussing something you didn't intend.   You also have a bad habit of not accepting information (real information) from others when they offer it.  I hope you grow out of that habit.

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7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That is not how discussion works.  You ask questions, you give your opinion or thoughts.  Otherwise you are fishing and misleading others in to discussing something you didn't intend.   You also have a bad habit of not accepting information (real information) from others when they offer it.  I hope you grow out of that habit.

I'm not misleading I reported what was mentioned in the news release and gave the link and asked others what they think. Your just after trashing me and I wish could put you on ignore or better yet block and you me so we can get on with post without a war.

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17 minutes ago, CryptoGirl said:

I'm not misleading I reported what was mentioned in the news release and gave the link and asked others what they think. Your just after trashing me and I wish could put you on ignore or better yet block and you me so we can get on with post without a war.

But you left out what you think.  That is the beginning of discussion.   Then after a lot of prodding you finally, seemingly only because you disagree with some, state your position.  So what is it you are really after, discussion or judging others on the input you asked for?

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