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Zarahemla site. Looking for a Book of Mormon city.


Hanslune
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15 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

https://zarahemla.site/

A site monetizing the supposed existence of a BOM city called Zarahemla. A hilarious and in place scientifically horrifying read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarahemla

They appear to be trying to convert Native American artifacts into support for this city - especially those folks who had been associated with Cahokia. The website above is a good example of wishful thinking, cherry picking and the use of belief to distort evidence.

From Mormanwiki (yes there is such a thing)

https://www.mormonwiki.com/Zarahemla

Mormon_Zarahemla.gif

I should note that I grew up around members of the LDS and had many friends within them. I was later fortunate enough to work with people who were in that religion and found them unusually kind and helpful - great wonderful people - but kinda of a goofy (scientifically speaking) religion.

I remember something about this.  I have mormon relatives but I don't remember the names of people in the Book of Mormon (I only read the first few chapters when I was young)   I do remember something about Jesus showing up in South America after he was crucified and the natives knew him.  Did that come from the Mormons?   Also, what's with the statue of Mithras in a fountain in the front room of the temple?   When they built one in Albuquerque they gave tours, not sure why, before they opened it.  I went on one of those tours/recruiting events with  my friend.  We were not allowed past the 1st floor and in the middle of the first floor was a huge room and next to the stairs a fountain with Mithras in the center of it.   Very weird.

And like you, I have found Mormons to be very kind people.

 

Edited by Desertrat56
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30 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I remember something about this.  I have mormon relatives but I don't remember the names of people in the Book of Mormon (I only read the first few chapters when I was young)   I do remember something about Jesus showing up in South America after he was crucified and the natives knew him.  Did that come from the Mormons?   Also, what's with the statue of Mithras in a fountain in the front room of the temple?   When they built one in Albuquerque they gave tours, not sure why, before they opened it.  I went on one of those tours/recruiting events with  my friend.  We were not allowed past the 1st floor and in the middle of the first floor was a huge room and next to the stairs a fountain with Mithras in the center of it.   Very weird.

And like you, I have found Mormons to be very kind people.

 

Yes, they believe JC came to America and found a number of civilizations here.

x5idy9o7kmc01.png?width=960&crop=smart&a

c748d7a707ac177f8879121f79898c27.jpgEtc. However I read the BOM decades ago (when I had an LDS girlfriend for motivation) and don't recall all the details now. Don't want to make this about the religion but instead about bogus archaeology and how belief can cause people to see what they want and not see what they don't want.

Alternative history as it were.

Edited by Hanslune
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As someone who grew up in the mormon church I can affirm that the church had some pretty whacky ideas about archeological sites. As of yet (nor do I think they will be confirmed to any degree in the future) there hasn’t been any evidence backing their claims.

And before anyone asks I am no longer a member in good standing as I’m an exmormon.

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Back in the 70's as an archaeology student I use to spend part of my summers at sites in the Yucatan clearing sites and going to field schools. One time we were near a dig from BYU and we use to socialize with them.

A number of younger LDS members were frustrated in trying to find associations with the Mayan civilization and the Nephites and Lamanites or the Jaredite culture with the Olmecs. The main problem was that  the Classical period of the Mayan era occurs after the Book of Mormon times. They believed LDS research should focused on identifying the characteristics of the Preclassic Mayan culture, which covered the time period addressed by the BOM.

With the far better translations available now the link between BOM pronouncements and what the Mesoamericans left behind is even more disassociated.

 

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2 hours ago, newbloodmoon said:

And before anyone asks I am no longer a member in good standing as I’m an exmormon.

Hi New moon

Understandable,I was an alter boy before I went rogue.:w00t:

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Oh my...

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9 hours ago, newbloodmoon said:

As someone who grew up in the mormon church I can affirm that the church had some pretty whacky ideas about archeological sites. As of yet (nor do I think they will be confirmed to any degree in the future) there hasn’t been any evidence backing their claims.

And before anyone asks I am no longer a member in good standing as I’m an exmormon.

So do you know why a statue of Mithras was in the lobby at the tabernacle or temple or what ever they call it in Albuquerque?  Is there on in every temple or was that just special for Albuquerque?

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I don’t know I left the church in my late teens and came out as an atheist in my mid 20’s. Since then I have criticized the church and have been labeled as an apostate so I’m not allowed on temple grounds. Not sure if they’ve since relaxed their rules but why risk going to the pokey for trespassing? Sorry I couldn’t answer your question.

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On 1/25/2022 at 1:09 AM, Hanslune said:

https://zarahemla.site/

A site monetizing the supposed existence of a BOM city called Zarahemla. A hilarious and in place scientifically horrifying read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarahemla

They appear to be trying to convert Native American artifacts into support for this city - especially those folks who had been associated with Cahokia. The website above is a good example of wishful thinking, cherry picking and the use of belief to distort evidence.

From Mormanwiki (yes there is such a thing)

https://www.mormonwiki.com/Zarahemla

Mormon_Zarahemla.gif

I should note that I grew up around members of the LDS and had many friends within them. I was later fortunate enough to work with people who were in that religion and found them unusually kind and helpful - great wonderful people - but kinda of a goofy (scientifically speaking) religion.

 

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They should look for remnants of the 8 transatlantic wooden submarines.

Book of Ether 2:16-25, 3:1-4

 

 

 

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I wonder if I can convince the LDS church to fund mt expedition to Narnia. They seem willing to throw money at finding fictional places, so why not?

--Jaylemurph

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11 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

I wonder if I can convince the LDS church to fund mt expedition to Narnia. They seem willing to throw money at finding fictional places, so why not?

--Jaylemurph

ROAD TRIP!  I call shotgun!

I have wondered, though, just how firm the belief is in this history among most of the Mormons.

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24 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

ROAD TRIP!  I call shotgun!

I have wondered, though, just how firm the belief is in this history among most of the Mormons.

Runs the gamut. Whenever I have known LDS members and they know I had been an Archaeologist this subject always came up. Roughly I would say that 25% don't believe it all, 60% kinda do but not enough to worry about it or study the situation. One 'Bishop' explained that the BOM was full of both revelation and speculation by its writer based on what he knew about archaeology in the early 19th century. Religious stuff aboslutely correct, archaeology probably off. 14% fervent belief - it is true. 1% that it is true and the evidence is being hidden from them by other Christians or (fill in blank on evil organization).

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4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

ROAD TRIP!  I call shotgun!

I have wondered, though, just how firm the belief is in this history among most of the Mormons.

My TARDIS will fit us all.

--Jaylemurph

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On 1/28/2022 at 1:43 PM, jaylemurph said:

My TARDIS will fit us all.

--Jaylemurph

I hope young man that you and Harte cleaned it up since last weekends Hog bowels flinging contest!

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13 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I hope young man that you and Harte cleaned it up since last weekends Hog bowels flinging contest!

By "clean up," do you count "ejected the soiled quarters into the Vortex"?

Because then, sure, we cleaned up. Turns out that one pig materialized on a developing world and was worshipped and glorified for several millennia, until its adherents nuked themselves back into the Stone Age in a holy war.

--Jaylemurph

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/24/2022 at 7:09 PM, Hanslune said:

I should note that I grew up around members of the LDS and had many friends within them. I was later fortunate enough to work with people who were in that religion and found them unusually kind and helpful - great wonderful people - but kinda of a goofy (scientifically speaking) religion.

I stayed away from them on Oahu being a known "Lamanite" and found it sad that most Samoans there were Mormon. As a kid I thought they should be driven from the Islands and sent back to Utah.

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You know nobody ever mentions how the supposed angel who supposedly gave Joseph Smith the book of Mormon was named Moroni

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2 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

You know nobody ever mentions how the supposed angel who supposedly gave Joseph Smith the book of Mormon was named Moroni

This link shows you what the name means, and where it came from:

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Moroni

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1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

This link shows you what the name means, and where it came from:

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Moroni

Yeah I assumed that there was another etymology, but I still always thought it was an interesting coincidence and possibly an example of...what is that called when an author subconsciously realize how bad their work is so they have their characters say point out how little sense it makes or have them say things like "Nobody talks like that!"? I thought there was a name for that.

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6 hours ago, Piney said:

I stayed away from them on Oahu being a known "Lamanite" and found it sad that most Samoans there were Mormon. As a kid I thought they should be driven from the Islands and sent back to Utah.

I always had soft spot for them. I came across them not only at HS but in College, the Yucatan, The Army, Cyprus and while teaching in Middle-East. Great folks as I said. I remember a group of them in Mexico being very depressed in trying to find a Maya, Olmec or Toltec connection between the BOM and what was really being found. The problem was JS was just making stuff based on what was currently floating around about the origins of the Native American in the early decades of the 19th century.

Edited by Hanslune
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Pretty much everybody involved in the Second Great "Awakening?" was making stuff up. It set American intellectualism back hundreds of years and created the Evangelical crankery we see today.

I do have a soft spot for Mitt Romney.

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On 1/25/2022 at 5:14 PM, Hanslune said:

Back in the 70's as an archaeology student I use to spend part of my summers at sites in the Yucatan clearing sites and going to field schools. One time we were near a dig from BYU and we use to socialize with them.

So, as a student back then I assume you were notably struck by how similar the language of Màaya T’àan is to Hebrew/Aramaic (jk rofl :lol: I'm a linguist by training).

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The problem with looking for Zarahemla is that we know precious little about the physical culture of the people. The Book of Mormon is a religious record with a few references to religiously-significant political occurrences. It doesn't go into how people dressed on a daily basis, or what style of art they preferred, or what the common types of writing were. It actually says that their form of speech wouldn't be recognizable to their ancestors because it had been "corrupted" (i.e. changed due to outside influences). The records in the Book of Mormon were exposed to a very limited group within that society, mostly passed down from father to son. The geographical range of the group is also difficult to ascertain, and the naming conventions have obviously changed since the fall of the Nephite nation @400 AD or so. At the end of the day, the likelihood that we'll find many traces of a nation that was systematically destroyed (and apparently hated by those who destroyed it) is quite small. Belief in the Book of Mormon is a matter of faith. 

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