Unvaccinated man denied heart transplant by Boston hospital

[Eldorado]

A US hospital has rejected a patient for a heart transplant at least in part because he is not vaccinated against Covid-19.

Brigham and Women's Hospital told the BBC in a statement: "Given the shortage of available organs, we do everything we can to ensure that a patient who receives a transplanted organ has the greatest chance of survival."

A spokesman said the hospital requires "the Covid-19 vaccine, and lifestyle behaviours for transplant candidates to create both the best chance for a successful operation and to optimise the patient's survival after transplantation, given that their immune system is drastically suppressed".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60132765

[toast]

This is the right decision.

[the13bats]

I have empathy to the fellow and his loved ones more so as his needing the transplant doesnt with what the article gave was from his life choices.

I had a buddy a heavy drinker smoker have a brain bleeder, i knew a guy on the surgery team who told me had they known his age and lifestyle they likely wouldnt have done the surgery, he passed away about 3 weeks later in hospice, while his brain died the night of the bleeder his body took 3 weeks to catch up. Pretty horrible.

His mom a chain smoker too buried his dad about a week after son passed he had lung cancer,

Life choices even pro or con vax should play into how doctors treat people.

[itsnotoutthere]

So presumably they will be doing  the same to patients that are obese or heavy smokers. Lifestyle choices & all that.

Edited January 26, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[stereologist]

11 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

So presumably they will be doing  the same to patients that are obese or heavy smokers. Lifestyle choices & all that.

Why?

[stereologist]

At least we could look into the medical issues according to Ferguson. Here is from the article mentioned in the OP

Quote

The organiser of the fundraiser said Mr Ferguson was concerned he could experience cardiac inflammation - a potential side effect from coronavirus vaccination that the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasises is rare and temporary - and that it might prove dangerous given the weakness of his heart.

Such issues would have been addressed by the transplant team.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Quote

• Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, and pericarditis is inflammation of the outer lining of the heart. Most patients with myocarditis or pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination responded well to medicine and rest and felt better quickly.  As of January 20, 2022, VAERS has received 2,132 preliminary reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 years and younger who received COVID-19 vaccines.
  
  Most cases have been reported after receiving Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna, (mRNA COVID-19 vaccines) particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have verified 1,233 reports of myocarditis or Learn more about myocarditis and pericarditis, including clinical considerations, after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.

We notice that Ferguson is male ad 31 years old.  So he falls into that category with roughly 2000 people out of 195 milllion people having had issues. So he would rather die, a 100% failure rate, than get vaccinated in which there is a 0.0001% chance of some sort of issue.

But we all should know that the only issue listed is being COVID-19 vaccinated. This issue is a tie breaker issue, not a decision making issue. But, Mr Ferguson is being taken off the transplant list and not simply being placed lower on the list. There must be issues outside of the vaccine issue that has caused Ferguson to be rejected for a transplant.

Remember this from the original article.

Quote

The hospital added that most of the 100,000 people on waitlists for organ transplants will not receive an organ within five years because of the shortage of available organs.

 

[stereologist]

I am going out on a limb here, but I bet he was never removed from the list. Instead he was never accepted for a transplant.

I know that the article suggests he was removed. That I bet is an error in the article.

I also bet that the issue is not just the COVID-19 vaccines, but I bet a slew of vaccines that he is missing and the family is only bringing up one issue.

 

[stereologist]

https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2022/01/brigham-and-womens-patient-ineligible-for-heart-transplant-because-he-isnt-vaccinated-against-covid-health-experts-explain-why.html

Quote

Still, Ferguson is steadfast in his decision to not get the COVID vaccine.

I believe this tells us he was never on the transplant list. Without the vaccine he could not get on the list in the first place. He would have been ineligible.

[itsnotoutthere]

12 hours ago, stereologist said:

Why?

Lifestyle choices & all that.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Assuming he was on the transplant list, it makes sense for them to have refused going forward with the transplant. Myocarditis/pericarditis is actually more common in those who contract COVID than cases arising from mere vaccination, so if he's unwilling to take measure to prevent himself from contracting a disease that can cause inflammation of the heart, he doesn't deserve it.

As far as I know (in the US) you have to prove that you're not going to treat your new organ like garbage.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

13 hours ago, stereologist said:

https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2022/01/brigham-and-womens-patient-ineligible-for-heart-transplant-because-he-isnt-vaccinated-against-covid-health-experts-explain-why.html

I believe this tells us he was never on the transplant list. Without the vaccine he could not get on the list in the first place. He would have been ineligible.

I wonder if he was on the list, pre-pandemic? I didn't note that in the article.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Desertrat56]

On 1/26/2022 at 1:20 AM, Eldorado said:

A US hospital has rejected a patient for a heart transplant at least in part because he is not vaccinated against Covid-19.

Brigham and Women's Hospital told the BBC in a statement: "Given the shortage of available organs, we do everything we can to ensure that a patient who receives a transplanted organ has the greatest chance of survival."

A spokesman said the hospital requires "the Covid-19 vaccine, and lifestyle behaviours for transplant candidates to create both the best chance for a successful operation and to optimise the patient's survival after transplantation, given that their immune system is drastically suppressed".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60132765

That makes sense.   My cousin's husband was on the list for a heart transplant but he could not keep control of his diet so he didn't get one.  He was told he needed to loose some weight and he just couldn't or wouldn't follow the plan.   He died after 2 years of being on the list.   

As long as the hospital did not dictate which vaccine he got I don't see anything wrong with this, and the statement did indicate there were other reasons besides not being vaccinated.

I find it interesting that the BBC was on to this.  They must be at a loss for real news or something.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Desertrat56

[spartan max2]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:45 AM, itsnotoutthere said:

So presumably they will be doing  the same to patients that are obese or heavy smokers. Lifestyle choices & all that.

Idk about if they do for obsesity. I know with lung transplants you can't be an active smoker though 

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Idk about if they do for obsesity. I know with lung transplants you can't be an active smoker though 

I think I remember something about someone being refused a knee transplant/joint surgery because of weight.

[+Desertrat56]

26 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Idk about if they do for obsesity. I know with lung transplants you can't be an active smoker though 

I know, they do.   It is a prerequesite that the patient must be a healthy weight as well as a lot of other things (like no smoking).

[stereologist]

3 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Lifestyle choices & all that.

But do they offer the same risk? No.

[quiXilver]

Fully understand why they made this decision.

What a hard decision to have to make; but I can't see a legitimate argument against it.

[stereologist]

2 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I wonder if he was on the list, pre-pandemic? I didn't note that in the article.

The issue is that he won't get vaccinated and there are a host of required vaccinations. He also cannot promise to get vaccinated after the surgery since transplant recipients have reduced immune systems that do not respond to vaccines just as they do not fight infections.

He would have had to apply to be placed on a transplant list. That process examines the disease and the health history of the patient. The goal is to offer the limited number of organs to the best candidates. If he is adamant about this vaccine I'm sure he has been adamant about other vaccines.

It's interesting that this person has only mentioned one issue, the CVID-19 vaccine, as a reason. The hospital has suggested that any other reasons may not be discussed due to HIPAA.

[stereologist]

There have been other cases. Here is one if we want to believe in anything that appears on the Tucker Carlson show

https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-man-hospital-refusing-transplants-unvaccinated

Quote

A Washington state patient who said he will ultimately be denied an organ transplant due to his refusal to undergo a coronavirus vaccine injection spoke out on "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on Wednesday.

Derek Kovick told host Tucker Carlson the University of Washington Medical Center is not permitting patients to remain on transplant lists if they refuse to get the jab. 

Carlson went on to point to reporting from Seattle journalist Jason Rantz wherein another man named Sam Allen made a similar claim, saying he had received a letter to that effect after informing his doctor he wouldn't take the vaccine because of its risks of cardiac problems for someone who already physiologically has a weak heart.

 

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, stereologist said:

There have been other cases. Here is one if we want to believe in anything that appears on the Tucker Carlson show

https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-man-hospital-refusing-transplants-unvaccinated

 

  Why did you preface your link with that?   

 

6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

It's interesting that this person has only mentioned one issue, the CVID-19 vaccine, as a reason. The hospital has suggested that any other reasons may not be discussed due to HIPAA.

It seems to me, and I work in the industry that requires us to know the HIPAA rules, that mentioning Anything about why the patient was refused a heart to a news media source is a HIPAA violation.   

[stereologist]

It seems to be a widespread demand.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/uva-hospital-refused-unvaccinated-transplant

I love this nitwit comment.

Quote

"So you're on the list, you're just not in an active status right now as we tie up all these other loose ends. So in order to be activated on the list, you will need to get the vaccine," the Dr. Warburton warned Connors in the recording of the call.

"Are you willing to do it?" she asked on the phone, followed by a pause. When Connors didn't respond, Dr. Warburton continued, "OK, so you don't want to move forward?"

"I'd rather die of kidney failure," Connors answered.

"OK, so this may be a crossroads that your, um, at your evaluation, because I don't –  that's not – there's not going to be any exception to that. The science is pretty clear on the vaccine, and we have seen so many people die from COVID that we are requiring it."

I see no problem giving the kidney to a better candidate.

[stereologist]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

  Why did you preface your link with that?   

 

It seems to me, and I work in the industry that requires us to know the HIPAA rules, that mentioning Anything about why the patient was refused a heart to a news media source is a HIPAA violation.   

Tiucker Carlson promotes frauds, scams, and misinformation. Even his own company said in a law suit that he could not be trusted to tell the truth.

I was a bit surprised to see them hint there might be other issues.

Edited January 27, 2022 by stereologist

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Tiucker Carlson promotes frauds, scams, and misinformation. Even his own company said in a law suit that he could not be trusted to tell the truth.

I was a bit surprised to see them hint there might be other issues.

Of course the vaccine would not be the only issue.   

And if you know or believe that Tucker Carlson promotes fruads, ... (I agree) would post a link to his material?

[stereologist]

Here are some reasons a person might be rejected for a heart transplant.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/transplant/referring-physicians/heart-transplant-criteria.html

https://www.upmc.com/services/transplant/heart/candidates

https://www.uabmedicine.org/documents/204604/232170/Heart+Transplant+Selection+Criteria.pdf/ab226c3d-3d15-812f-854e-7851ae982f5d

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/transplant/heart/eligibility.aspx

https://ccs.ca/app/uploads/2020/12/CCTN_Cardiac_Transplantation_Eligibility_and_Listing_Criteria_in_Canada_2012.pdf

None of these specifically listed vaccinations. When I added vaccinations to my search I found this:

https://www.nm.org/-/media/northwestern/resources/patients-and-visitors/patient-education-care-and-treatment/northwestern-medicine-vaccinations-before-and-after-heart-transplant.pdf

Quote

What vaccinations should I have and when should I have them?
All patients waiting for a heart transplant should be up-to-date on their vaccinations before
the heart transplant. These include:
■ Diphtheria.
■ Tetanus.
■ Pertussis.
■ Pneumonia.
■ Hepatitis A and B.
■ Annual flu vaccines.
If there are any questions or concerns, call the heart transplant team at 312-695-4965.
CARE AND TREATMENT
Northwestern Memorial Hospital Patient Education
If blood tests show that your immunity is low, we may advise you to get extra vaccine doses. The infectious disease specialist who works with your heart team may also suggest other vaccinations for you.
After your heart transplant and during your infectious disease office visits, your immunity against these illnesses may be checked by blood tests. If needed, your infectious disease specialist may order extra vaccine doses.
Are there vaccinations I should not get after my heart transplant?
Transplant patients should not receive live virus vaccines. The live virus vaccine may cause an infection in patients with weakened immune systems. Usually, the vaccines that you should not receive include:
■ Smallpox.
■ Measles/mumps/rubella.
■ BCG.
■ Oral polio.
■ Oral typhoid.
■ Yellow fever.
■ Japanese B encephalitis.
■ Nasal live attenuated influenza (the nasal spray flu vaccine).
■ Chickenpox.
■ Shingles vaccines.
It is important that you do not receive a live virus vaccine within one month before your transplant.

Most of the sites I listed above suggested that a team would do an evaluation.

[stereologist]

9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Of course the vaccine would not be the only issue.   

And if you know or believe that Tucker Carlson promotes fruads, ... (I agree) would post a link to his material?

It's Fox news that was running all of the anti-vax baloney. It was a quick way to suggest that this was not the first case of a person being removed from a transplant list due to a vaccination issue.