End of Days Date Setting

[+and-then]

My belief is that all who believe in Christ have been warned against "date setting" for His return. One such specific warning comes from Matthew 24:36:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

"That day" references the day Christ will return for His church.  I've come across a couple of videos that are well done and I wanted to share them for anyone who might be interested. 

Mockers are free to have your fun, no harm, no foul.

Those who are believers or who have an open mind are welcome to explain your feelings on this topic.

 

 

 

[+OverSword]

I have always found this stuff interesting.  When I was a teenager I really loved studying revelations and writings by Nostradamus and things like that, but now personally I do not believe in the end of the world as laid out in religions.  Even there they are really the beginning of something supposedly better, right?  

[onlookerofmayhem]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions

What makes the predictions/observations in the videos any different than the hundreds of times that have claimed the end times are near that have failed?

For 2000 years, in every generation, there are those that claim Jesus's return is at hand.

I predict it will keep going on that way because he isn't coming back. If he existed, he's long dead and gone.

[XenoFish]

Ye olden goal post moving.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I have always found this stuff interesting.  When I was a teenager I really loved studying revelations and writings by Nostradamus and things like that, but now personally I do not believe in the end of the world as laid out in religions.  Even there they are really the beginning of something supposedly better, right?  

In short, the answer is yes.  First, the phrase "end of the world" is an error from translation.  The actual meaning is the "end of the age".  The world itself does no end, it just alludes to the end of human government.  It is to be replaced by the coming of Christ Himself back to the planet to set things right and to rule over the nations "with a rod of iron" - that is, by force.  

Just prior to His return we are told that the global situation will be SO BAD that unless He returned no life would remain:

Matt 24:22

21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. 

No doubt many will bridle at the idea of force being used.  Even if that force will actually, truly make this world a better place in ways we've never been able to accomplish on our own.  That's just the kind of stubborn pride we all exhibit as part of our make-up.  

My understanding - and that's all I base ANY of my words on, here, is that He will return to stop a global leader who has presided over the near desolation of all humanity.  Those who will mock that idea should  explain why they don't believe a human government is capable of bringing such ruin.  I'll listen carefully to what they have to say.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I predict it will keep going on that way because he isn't coming back. If he existed, he's long dead and gone.

Your opinion is duly noted.  It is shared by billions of other humans.  I demand that no one be compelled to believe as I do.  I struggle with it every day, myself. 

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Ye olden goal post moving.

You may be right, I don't know.  I started the thread to see what others who believed or still had not decided for certain, thought about the timing and whether the date setting was too much in conflict with the word.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Your opinion is duly noted.  It is shared by billions of other humans.  I demand that no one be compelled to believe as I do.  I struggle with it every day, myself. 

What if Jesus return isn't physical. Just for the sake of discussion. What if jeebus comes to his followers upon their death. Less theatrical I know, but meh, I didn't write the story.

[zep73]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

I struggle with it every day, myself.

That is because your brain, your subconscious, knows that it's BS.

Let me ask you, were you raised in a (devout) Christian family? Or did you become religious on your own behest?

[+and-then]

Just now, XenoFish said:

What if Jesus return isn't physical. Just for the sake of discussion. What if jeebus comes to his followers upon their death. Less theatrical I know, but meh, I didn't write the story.

I've wondered about this myself.  My understanding is that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".  IOW, believers will immediately be in Christ's presence as soon as they pass from this life.  In that sense, His return is as imminent as the day of our death.  That also covers the part about "no man knowing the day or the hour".  That may also be why suicide is frowned upon by most religions, I don't know.

I believe that His return will also be physical, though.  The reason for that belief is that the scripture goes into a lot of depth in multiple books about the conditions on the planet at the time He returns as well as the actions He takes in response to "those who destroy the earth":

 "The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth." (Revelation 11:18 - NKJV) 

 

 

[Helen of Annoy]

4 minutes ago, zep73 said:

That is because your brain, your subconscious, knows that it's BS.

Let me ask you, were you raised in a (devout) Christian family? Or did you become religious on your own behest?

It can be the other way around, easily.

If I may butt in with my own example, my subconsciousness keeps wanting the outer me to believe. So my faith made me have faith, not the other way around. 

(I was raised in conflicting environment, both by people who always had faith and those who were going through staunch atheist phase.) 

 

 

 

I believe there's higher power. I'm certain, actually. But I can easily imagine how others can be certain the opposite is true. 

I can also very easily imagine humanity bringing itself into extinction, even without some natural catastrophe that would affect whole planet. Maybe higher power let that too be our own choice -  when and how our age will end. 

Prophecies may change the future just by being made.  

But strictly on topic and from strictly Christian perspective, I think Jesus was clear: no one gets to know the time of his return. 

Personally, I don't expect that will happen while I'm still here, but I wouldn't be exactly shocked if it does happen. Despite not being a classic Christian.  

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

That may also be why suicide is frowned upon by most religions, I don't know.

Because many believe that human life is sacred. Yet we end lives like it doesn't matter. For whatever reason. 

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, zep73 said:

That is because your brain, your subconscious, knows that it's BS.

Let me ask you, were you raised in a (devout) Christian family? Or did you become religious on your own behest?

I "liked" your response, not because I agree with your premise but because of the civility you showed in it.  I was raised in a family that did not attend church but where God was revered and respected.  I wandered away from that as a teen and young adult but as I watched the state of the world changing, becomeing ever more evil (IMO), I came back to my faith.  I assume you ask because you believe that faith is about ingrained patterns of behavior rather than the use of logic or "common sense".

I'm sure that plays a role.  The reason I believe as I do at 61 years of age is that I've seen what the world has to offer and I've watched the struggle and the misery in life that has come to all, even those who are wealthy or well-educated.  In short, I do not see that those who spurn or mock faith have a better life or better answers to the struggles we all face.  That's MY OPINION.  Don't we all structure our lives around those?  

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yet we end lives like it doesn't matter. For whatever reason. 

I can't answer for others but, having seriously contemplated ending my own life about a decade ago, I know that I had come to a point of UTTER HOPELESSNESS.  Looking back, I realize that much of that was an organic problem - for me - and that I was so deep in depression that I was totally unable to see a better future or any hope at all of a change in my misery.  I finally sought help and began taking an antidepressant and life changed for the better.  It took some time to adjust but I'm extremely thankful that I did NOT end my life then.  

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

I "liked" your response, not because I agree with your premise but because of the civility you showed in it.  I was raised in a family that did not attend church but where God was revered and respected.  I wandered away from that as a teen and young adult but as I watched the state of the world changing, becomeing ever more evil (IMO), I came back to my faith.  I assume you ask because you believe that faith is about ingrained patterns of behavior rather than the use of logic or "common sense".

I'm sure that plays a role.  The reason I believe as I do at 61 years of age is that I've seen what the world has to offer and I've watched the struggle and the misery in life that has come to all, even those who are wealthy or well-educated.  In short, I do not see that those who spurn or mock faith have a better life or better answers to the struggles we all face.  That's MY OPINION.  Don't we all structure our lives around those?  

Your faith is how you cope with reality. Same for my rather cynical and nihilistic perspective. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, and then said:

I can't answer for others but, having seriously contemplated ending my own life about a decade ago, I know that I had come to a point of UTTER HOPELESSNESS.  Looking back, I realize that much of that was an organic problem - for me - and that I was so deep in depression that I was totally unable to see a better future or any hope at all of a change in my misery.  I finally sought help and began taking an antidepressant and life changed for the better.  It took some time to adjust but I'm extremely thankful that I did NOT end my life then.  

2018 was such a good year for me. (That's sarcasm and some of you might know why that year was "good")

[+Liquid Gardens]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

That's MY OPINION.  Don't we all structure our lives around those? 

Well to be fair there are 'facts' at our disposal too, I know that impacts my life structure a lot.  

One statement that does get a lot of play here by unbelievers is a couple verses earlier,  Matthew 24:34:  "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.".  Just wondering how these end days predictions in 2022 are reconciled with the fact that the generation he was talking to have definitely passed.

[Helen of Annoy]

42 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Well to be fair there are 'facts' at our disposal too, I know that impacts my life structure a lot.  

One statement that does get a lot of play here by unbelievers is a couple verses earlier,  Matthew 24:34:  "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.".  Just wondering how these end days predictions in 2022 are reconciled with the fact that the generation he was talking to have definitely passed.

Obviously, no one knows and no one can know. Matthew didn't quote the Father, who is the only one who knows. That's how the generation had passed and the Second coming did not happen. 

And that too clearly shows no human has any business predicting the time of Second coming. 

[zep73]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It can be the other way around, easily.

If I may butt in with my own example, my subconsciousness keeps wanting the outer me to believe. So my faith made me have faith, not the other way around.

Perhaps you are sensing that the world is artificial? That it isn't natural in the sense 'in and of itself'. But that does not mean there is a god.

I think most, if not all, people have that 'something ain't right' sense. Most unfortunately make the error of attributing that to god and creation.

Note: The above statements does not reflect my faith, but is merely a theory based on scientific interpretations.

[+Liquid Gardens]

31 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Obviously, no one knows and no one can know. Matthew didn't quote the Father, who is the only one who knows. That's how the generation had passed and the Second coming did not happen. 

Matthew 'quoted' Jesus though, so are you saying that Jesus is just sharing a totally unfounded guess and actually has no clue whether the current generation will pass before his return?  I don't think that MO is consistent with how Jesus is portrayed in this book, who at the very least I believe was a prophet.  There are a few more things that Jesus 'verily' said onto us, should those all be treated as 'guesses' by believers also? 

Keep in mind the two quotes are not necessarily inconsistent; Jesus may have known that this will all comes to pass before the generation in front of him had passed, but not know the exact day or hour.

[Helen of Annoy]

31 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Perhaps you are sensing that the world is artificial? That it isn't natural in the sense 'in and of itself'. But that does not mean there is a god.

I think most, if not all, people have that 'something ain't right' sense. Most unfortunately make the error of attributing that to god and creation.

Note: The above statements does not reflect my faith, but is merely a theory based on scientific interpretations.

What I'm sensing is that everything happens for a reason. There are no coincidences. Sometimes we get to see the connection, sometimes we don't, sometimes it takes years or lifetimes to notice it. That's the first, most obvious logical reason that confirms my... what to call it... spontaneous certainty? I'm simply certain there's higher power.

Since I've got no need and never was pressured by anyone to accept either position, I think that faith of mine is genuine. Not a result of conditioning or rebellion. It just is there. (I'm fairly certain it's not schizophrenia, by the way  Though mental illnesses are fascinating and sometimes have elements you can't just write off... not to digress.)

 

To cut myself short, I think the division between scientific (natural) and spiritual (it's natural too) is unnecessary and pretty much a waste of debating time. 

Science deals with observable, material world. Faith feels the entirety of existence. Both are parts of human experience. They don't contradict each other at all. The problem occurs when people go on power trips and/or start making a business out of misused spiritual needs and concepts. Or do the same with - in my opinion - not realistic idea that they've proven the non-existence of 'god'. 

I put 'god' in quotation marks because I've got a problem with that word. It was so abused it stopped describing my idea of higher power. 

Sermon over   

[Helen of Annoy]

6 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Matthew 'quoted' Jesus though, so are you saying that Jesus is just sharing a totally unfounded guess and actually has no clue whether the current generation will pass before his return?  I don't think that MO is consistent with how Jesus is portrayed in this book, who at the very least I believe was a prophet.  There are a few more things that Jesus 'verily' said onto us, should those all be treated as 'guesses' by believers also? 

Keep in mind the two quotes are not necessarily inconsistent; Jesus may have known that this will all comes to pass before the generation in front of him had passed, but not know the exact day or hour.

The most dry explanation is the one I mentioned, I believe: that Jesus himself did not know, as he confirmed he himself can't know. Only the Father in Heaven. While being the God, the Son in Holy Trinity, Jesus was fully human during his embodiment on Earth, with all human limitations. (Even the miracles he explained would be possible for anyone else to perform, with a grain of faith. Not to digress too far.)

 

We can, of course, make the word 'generation' mean something else, interpret any word and sentence into its own opposite if needed be, but in this case we don't have to. From strictly Christian point of view, it's quite enough that only the Father knows. In my opinion, it doesn't invalidate Matthew. (There's plenty of historic reasons to invalidate everything, by the way, I'm not saying the NT alone can logically prove existence of god or something. It's personal, faith's personal. Scriptures are optional. IMHO, of course.)

It's natural that people want to know when, of course they are, and I don't think it's wrong or illogical to ponder if these times are the end of times... just as it's natural for atheists to roll their eyes at them  

[+Desertrat56]

2 hours ago, and then said:

I'm sure that plays a role.  The reason I believe as I do at 61 years of age is that I've seen what the world has to offer and I've watched the struggle and the misery in life that has come to all, even those who are wealthy or well-educated.  In short, I do not see that those who spurn or mock faith have a better life or better answers to the struggles we all face.  That's MY OPINION.  Don't we all structure our lives around those?  

Interesting.   I came to the opposite conclusion because I don't see those who have faith in god or Jesus having a better life or fewer struggles, or even an ability to make better decisions or change bad habits than any one who is an atheist or has a different spiritual center.  So we both have come to different opinions with similar observations.

[+Desertrat56]

36 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

To cut myself short, I think the division between scientific (natural) and spiritual (it's natural too) is unnecessary and pretty much a waste of debating time. 

I agree with that.  It is probably why we have so much discord on certain subjects, because we work to keep the two separate.

[Phantom309]

This stuff has been going on ad nauseam for as looong as I can possibly remember.

But why not? Its a tried and true vehicle to peddle fear and hope all at the same time, and it keeps those cash registers a-ringing. What's not to like...?