End of Days Date Setting

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

We really need to consider that we're dealing with fictional characters. I've got no proof, but I think the beginning of Christianity were more of a mystic sort of order. What we're seeing now is just a highly mutated form of that. Then against I fully reserve the right to be absolutely wrong in my opinion. 

Judaism is just a combination of other faiths, Christianity is an off-shoot, and islam is just a bastardized verson of Judaism. 

Agree, but the only way it's absurdities becomes abundantly clear, is by addressing it as real.
We do the same with conspiracy theories, by highlighting how many thousands of people needs to be involved to make their suggestions supposedly realistic. Like all governments in the world, in collaboration with the whole scientific community and all branches of the media. Total madness to believe in it, if you address it like that.

CT's and ancient religions do have a lot in common, now that I think of it. Both require you to waiver common sense.

[the13bats]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:46 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Well it can’t happen anytime soon because one of the major events that must occur is, Israel must reoccupy all the lands given to them by Gods covenant with Abraham! 

Here is an interesting Academic journal on what is called The Trump Prophecies and the Mobilization of Evangelical Voters: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00084298211012698

Below is a map of the area they must occupy before the second coming of Christ can occur!

Another rub against "end of days" in this case "Christian"  is it would make all other religions wrong.

[quiXilver]

If all religions were to disappear right now completely with no memory or record... new religions would seemingly, inevitably eventually surface, given human nature.

But they would never be the exact same religions.

 

Isn't that interesting?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Why speculate about imaginary events ?

 

Br Cornelius

[+Desertrat56]

6 hours ago, Br Cornelius said:

Why speculate about imaginary events ?

 

Br Cornelius

This particular one feeds the fear.

[Freez1]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:10 PM, and then said:

My belief is that all who believe in Christ have been warned against "date setting" for His return. One such specific warning comes from Matthew 24:36:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

"That day" references the day Christ will return for His church.  I've come across a couple of videos that are well done and I wanted to share them for anyone who might be interested. 

Mockers are free to have your fun, no harm, no foul.

Those who are believers or who have an open mind are welcome to explain your feelings on this topic.

 

 

 

No one will know but God himself. That’s a fact! 

[Davros of Skaro]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

Yeah, that's where I come from on HJ/MJ. If the guild would just acknowledge that the matter is uncertain, then I'd be a happy camper.

It's going to take a long time. Longer than the turn around concerning the Patriarchs.

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

I picture him as an ancient David Mamet. Somebody who writes the way people speak to one another. Koine was deployed in some very low-rent settings. Betcha lotsa folks back then spoke like Mark wrote.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

It would be, except that verse 16:7 is a natural stopping place, a curtain line. Assuming that Mark didn't feel that his work was complete except that he hadn't yet trashed women, verse 16:8 serves only one function aesthetically, which is to set up verse 16:9 in order for it to complete a common Greek figure of speech (emphatic negation followed by an exception).

Or it could be just "reversal of expectations" as bookends. Where preach the good news in the beginning to the woman said nothing while prefaced each with a messenger sent out ahead of them.

Mark 1:1-3

"1 The beginning of the good news of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in the prophet Isaiah, "See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,  who will prepare your way; 3 the voice of one crying out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,'"

Mark 16:7-8

7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you." 8 So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

Also, I'm arguing narrowly here: that the author of 16:9-14 is different from the author of 16:15-20. Whoever wrote 9-14 was at least familiar with the contents and styling of the undisputed Mark (that is 1:1 through 16:8). That didn't have to be "Mark." I don't know who Mark is; I don't even know that undisputed Mark is the work of a single author.

(I am told that in humanities department outside of New Testament Studies that it's all very trendy to question the very idea of authorship. I've been called "postmodern" to my virtual face online. Meh - in my misspent youth in the theater, I saw it all the time. Scripts morph under the wear and tear of actual performance. That's just the way it is.)

We probably will never know.

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

is a young man in Mark. There is nothing on the page, not one thing, that justifies identifying him as anything other than a man. Oh, except those other gospels that Mark found itself bound together with later on in history.

You say "There is nothing on the page" which makes me think you're playing around. LOL!

Dirty clothes, or sparse clothing, and clean clothes were seen as metaphors (to the literate) for Earthly/spiritual bodies in the ancient world. Mar. 14:51-52, 16:5 "51 A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52 but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.", "5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man, dressed in a white robe, sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed."

1 Cor. 15:49 "49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven." (Gen. 2:8 & Gen. 2:15. God twice puts a man in Eden)

Also the same people seeing this (dirty/clean clothing) as a metaphor, or symbolism may have seen something special in Zechariah.

Note: 1 Cor. 15:50bc "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

Zechariah 3:1-7

"1 Then he showed me the high priest Joshua/Jesus (Savior) standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan (Adversary) standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, O Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this man a brand plucked from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was dressed with filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." And to him he said, "See, I have taken your guilt away from you, and I will clothe you with festal apparel." 5 And I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with the apparel; and the angel of the LORD was standing by.

6 Then the angel of the LORD assured Joshua, saying 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here."

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

You realize that there is no evidence that Mark was a practicing Christian at the time he wrote? He could have been an ex-Christian (people were free to come and go). He could have been a never-Christian with an interest in exotic cults. He could have been a satirist...

Oh- there's also no evidence that there ever was one "inside." Paul is the one who tells us that there's at least one "inside," his own (milk before meat and all that), but Paul equally tells us that other leaders had other ideas even then. Maybe Cephas-Peter-Simon led an "inside," too. Maybe James the pillar led another one .  Maybe Apollos... By the Second Century, we know there were plural "insides."

Whoever wrote it was pushing Pauline theology.

"It is a commonplace in some circles to decry Paul as a perverter of the original purity of Christianity founded by Jesus. Yet Jesus in Mark offers no new teaching but rather points back to the Torah and the Old Testament scriptures, the same sources that Paul cites. And one of Mark's literary goals was to validate Paul as the premier apostle, and consequently Paul's epistles as the scripture in which the true gospel can be found. The author of Mark expects his readers to not only accept Paul's epistles as scripture but to go there in order to find the gospel teaching which is so obviously missing from the text of his Gospel."

"The common assumption that Mark was trying as much as possible to report literally true facts about Jesus simply cannot withstand a dispassionate review of the evidence. Not even the assumption that Mark himself believed what he was writing to be literally true stands up to the evidence."

Tom Dykstra, Mark Canonizer of Paul, pp. 241-242

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, eight bits said:

Then consider a view that is neither guild nor Carrier, for example: Why the block ought not to be assumed to have been a single unit

https://uncertaintist.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/the-longer-ending-of-gmark-part-i-were-verses-169-20-written-as-one-unit/

and why I'd be willing to bet heavily that 16:9 is at least as "authentic" as 16:8

https://uncertaintist.wordpress.com/2019/01/15/more-on-where-gmark-really-ends/

 

Well if Mark hints to the reader that it's entirely a parable when Jesus explains it to the disciples (Mar. 4:10-12). Then the woman fleeing, and not telling fits because Jesus is the OT.

Paul is adamant that his Gospel is not from humans, but from scripture, and visions/dreams.

Galatians 1:11-12, :15-17  "11 For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; 12 for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ"

"15 But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus."

Romans 15:4 "4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, so that by steadfastness and by the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope."

1 Corinthians 15:3-8 "3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures," (Note: Exo. 19:11 "11 and prepare for the third day, because on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.;", Hos. 6:2 "2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.)

A secret hidden through the ages now revealed from scripture, and the spiritual realm (their imagination).

Romans 16:25-26 "25 Now to God who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but is now disclosed, and through the prophetic writings is made known to all the Gentiles, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith —"

1 Corinthians 2:7, :13 "7 But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory."; "13 And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual."

Also Paul says his apostleship is by the same means as the founding Pillars.

Galatians 2:6-9 "6 And from those who were supposed to be acknowledged leaders (what they actually were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality) — those leaders contributed nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me in sending me to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised."

[Davros of Skaro]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:16 AM, Will Due said:

 

Why yes. And here's something from it that's directed at those who find it satisfying to do whatever they can to mock and belittle anything if not all, in order to create as much mayhem as possible in the lives of as many people they can:

 

 

“But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness: Having refused to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience, they may subsequently seek entrance thereto when the glory of the better way becomes revealed in the age to come. And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut. This door is not open to those who would enter the kingdom for selfish glory. Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father’s will. When in spirit and soul you have turned your backs upon the Father’s kingdom, it is useless in mind and body to stand before this door and knock, saying, ‘Lord, open to us; we would also be great in the kingdom.’ Then will I declare that you are not of my fold. I will not receive you to be among those who have fought the good fight of faith and won the reward of unselfish service in the kingdom on earth. And when you say, ‘Did we not eat and drink with you, and did you not teach in our streets?’ then shall I again declare that you are spiritual strangers; that we were not fellow servants in the Father’s ministry of mercy on earth; that I do not know you; and then shall the Judge of all the earth say to you: ‘Depart from us, all you who have taken delight in the works of iniquity.’

 

 

 

Sounds legit....