NATO allies send deadly weapons, munitions to Ukraine while Germany sends 5K helmets

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, toast said:

WION, lol! Whats next, The Watchtower News? Its true, its true, Ive heard its all true!

WION is generally a (somewhat) respectable news source, but it does have a penchant for hyperbole.

That said, my buddy from Latvia is saying the same crap you're seeing about Ukraine re the blood bags. Putin's going to go for it, dude. He gives zero f!cks.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Nuclear Wessel]

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

To be fair, the verbal offensive against Germany and their strictly non-war mongering stance comes from two confusingly different, opposed sources. 

You're forgetting about an additional source: the perceived hypocrisy of the German government, who up until very recently were securing lucrative arms deals in places like the Middle East. Just before Angela Merkel finished her term she secured a significant deal with Egypt, so of course a perceived sudden change in their tune (i.e. no longer provisioning weapons to areas that are in high-conflict) is going to generate verbal offensives.

I know how much you like to think that those who don't agree with your points re this conflict are victims who fell to Russian propaganda, but that's not always the case. 

[toast]

4 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Since you have problems with Wion, who wasnt even the first to report it there are these.

You lack reading comprehension. I didnt took the content of the report into question but the source itself but that does not mean that I take the content of the report as to be serious. But its always some kind of funny when people are digging up lousy sources just because the reports there match their claims.

Quote

Moscow has put what appear to be ...

Ukrainian military intelligence said ...

The US has seen indications ...

Opinions. But no facts. Again, I dont judge if the alleged Russian actions are real or not because I simply dont know yet and you dont either. Do you remember: "Im not convinced!"?

BTW: I know very well how to use a web brower correctly.

[Helen of Annoy]

13 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

You're forgetting about an additional source: the perceived hypocrisy of the German government, who up until very recently were securing lucrative arms deals in places like the Middle East. Just before Angela Merkel finished her term she secured a significant deal with Egypt, so of course a perceived sudden change in their tune (i.e. no longer provisioning weapons to areas that are in high-conflict) is going to generate verbal offensives.

I know how much you like to think that those who don't agree with your points re this conflict are victims who fell to Russian propaganda, but that's not always the case. 

It's not what I like to think, it's what happens. Russian trolling/talking points are not just something their apologists spam around blatantly, they find their way into western media and narrative smuggled into otherwise completely accurate news and commentaries.

Like this crap with badmouthing Germany, at the wrongest possible time.   

 

Don't mix Middle Eastern oranges and Russian apples.

It's not the same to sell some artillery or whatnot to bored sheikhs or to literally send it on Russia. I mean, historic context, damn it, apparently both you and me see no problem in it, but can you imagine Russian b****ing and moaning because they've been fired at from German howitzers? (I'll refrain from morbid humour, but grab a map and see Kursk oblast is at the border with Ukraine. It is wiser to not give such propaganda chance to Putin.)

If Germany is not comfortable sending howitzers against Russia then they're not comfortable doing that. End of story.

It's very counter-productive to badmouth Germany at this very moment, when unity of the West is the key factor that will make Putin understand that attacking Ukraine will be very expensive for him. 

Insisting there's some shady alliance between Germany and Russia is exactly the disturbing 'news' Russia needs to hear. 

And there's no such alliance, because the big chunk of damage in case of real sanctions will be at German expense. Have they implied they won't implement sanctions? Hell, no, they're insisting on real sanctions. They're ready to suffer damage of their own, convinced that it can prevent or at least shorten a real war with real casualties. 

I see no logical fault in their thinking. 

 

On the brighter side, creating image of Germany that can't be trusted (aw you spiteful children!) can't have any effect on German neighbours and allies, while it may make Putin willing to keep open channels with German diplomats. It might save a lot of lives in not at all far fetched scenario.

But it gets on my nerves so very much because my country owes so much to Germany and the aid, both diplomatic and humanitarian, which they gave us, expecting nothing in return. Iceland recognized my country first, Germany followed immediately, and if they didn't break the ice for my country our war would be longer, bloodier and possibly even lost. 

Now they're helping Ukraine and so far they got accusations and insults instead of thanks, but such is life. It often takes years for people to understand who actually did what for them. 

 

Aw, this was too long. Sorry. But it's personal for me so I can't keep it short. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[toast]

14 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

You're forgetting about an additional source: the perceived hypocrisy of the German government, who up until very recently were securing lucrative arms deals in places like the Middle East.

You`re forgetting that we have a new government, dont you? The conservatives were sent to the sofa and the new one is a coalition of the SPD/Green/FDP (social/green/liberal) parties and the opportunities were never better that now to jump out of that dirty bizz.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

4 minutes ago, toast said:

You`re forgetting that we have a new government, dont you? The conservatives were sent to the sofa and the new one is a coalition of the SPD/Green/FDP (social/green/liberal) parties and the opportunities were never better that now to jump out of that dirty bizz.

No, not forgetting, that's why I had "perceived". I'm well aware that it's a new government--I was merely offering an alternative reason as to why people would be p***ed.

[DarkHunter]

Seems the Russian invasion of Ukraine is imminent.  The American government and I believe the British government are telling all citizens to leave Ukraine in the next 24 to 48 hours and the EU is pulling all diplomatic staff out of Ukraine.  Other European countries have begun to also issue statements urging citizens to leave Ukraine now.  The American government has also issued a statement saying that believe Putin gas decided to invade Ukraine and the invasion can occur at any time.

3,000 more troops from the 82nd airborne are being deployed to Poland.  Heard that American F-15 C/D are now in Poland but not sure if that is sue to recent tensions or an already scheduled deployment.  The American government has said no American troops will enter Ukraine to help citizens if they get trapped during an invasion so they need to leave now.

The Russian build up is near complete, about 97 battalion tactical groups are either at or in transport to the Ukrainian border.  That is not counting division level assets like tactical ballistic missile launchers, anti-air assets, certain heavy artillery, the Russian national guard units, and recently Russian special forces sent to Crimea.  Russian field hospitals a few kilometers away from the border have been picked up on satellite images having been newly built.  Also Russia has moved all of their troop landing ships to the Black Sea along with boosting their naval combat ships and moving anti-ship missile batteries to the Black Sea region.

Diplomatically Russia has embarrassed and snubbed the French and British.  After the I believe 5 hour long meeting Macron had with Putin the Russian government waited for the French government to issue a statement on the meeting then essentially said everything the French government claimed didnt happen.  Also the Russian government added a cheap shot by essentially saying they could never make a deal with France as France is not the ones in charge and are in no position to offer anything.  During the meeting with the British foreign secretary got snubbed by her Russian counterpart saying talking with her was pointless as it was like trying to speak to a deaf person and walked out of a press conference.

Seems safe to say the Russian invasion of Ukraine will be starting shortly.

[Duke Wellington]

Step 1: Russians invade Eastern Ukraine up to the river than transects the country, then invade down from Belarus to finish the iob.

Step 2: Russia will force Moldova to align with it and invade Bulgaria to create a corridor to their ally Serbia. Serbia are already beginning a large military build up.

Step 3: Back to Belarus, not all Russia forces would have been used invading Ukraine. They will go for the Baltic States and possibly Poland to create a corridor to Kalingrad.

Step 4: They will invade Finland to secure their North West flank.

Russia has then fully completed the job of securing its Western borders and ICBM silos from NATO AMD silos.

[+and-then]

https://rumble.com/vupaos-white-house-russia-could-invade-ukraine-within-the-week.html

Why is the west sounding war drums?  What purpose does it serve?

[DarkHunter]

57 minutes ago, and then said:

https://rumble.com/vupaos-white-house-russia-could-invade-ukraine-within-the-week.html

Why is the west sounding war drums?  What purpose does it serve?

Heard some speculation the reason for all of this is to essentially let Putin know that America and Europe know what he is planning, hoping to discourage him from attacking Ukraine, and to make it harder for Putin to paint Ukraine as the aggressor/produce a false flag incident to give justification for a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  

America and NATO cant just allow Russia to take Ukraine, that will just embolden Putin to keep pushing for more and signal to China that an invasion of Taiwan is feasible.  Despite the calls of everything is fine from the Ukranian government, which is starting to change, the Ukranian military has been preparing to defend Ukraine including coming up with contingencies on how to form an insurgency in the likely event Russia overruns everything east of the Dnieper river and reaches Kiev.  It makes sense the government doesnt want to produce a panic and potential collapse of order before an invasion, dealing with that would take away resources that need to be focused on defending Ukraine.

NATO doesnt need to put combat troops into Ukraine, the Ukranian military has more then enough soldiers to fight a defensive war successfully.  All Ukraine would really need is intelligence on Russian troop movements and for America/NATO to put in place and enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine to deny Russia air superiority.

Putting a no fly zone over Ukraine would be risky but with Russia concentrating the majority of its combat forces in a relatively small area they probably wont want to risk a wider war by attacking any NATO nation.  They will definitely try to shoot down NATO aircraft if they tried imposing a no fly zone and some will inevitably get shot down but it would probably be over friendly territory and the benefits arguably massively outweigh the risks involved.  In theory with the aircraft being moved to Poland and Romania along with the Truman carrier strike group then America and NATO should be able to outnumber the amount of aircraft Russia has dedicated to an invasion of Ukraine.  

[+and-then]

24 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Putting a no fly zone over Ukraine would be risky but with Russia concentrating the majority of its combat forces in a relatively small area they probably wont want to risk a wider war by attacking any NATO nation.  They will definitely try to shoot down NATO aircraft if they tried imposing a no fly zone and some will inevitably get shot down but it would probably be over friendly territory and the benefits arguably massively outweigh the risks involved.  In theory with the aircraft being moved to Poland and Romania along with the Truman carrier strike group then America and NATO should be able to outnumber the amount of aircraft Russia has dedicated to an invasion of Ukraine.  

Like all other wars, once this one begins, there will be a real chance for miscalculation, followed by escalation.  I agree that doing nothing would guarantee that he'll come back for more but backing him into a corner from which the only egress includes global humiliation, is a recipe for a potential disaster.  If this party gets started and aircraft and pilots begin dying from both sides, the truth is that no one really knows where it will end.  With all the other inexplicably crazy things that have been occuring in the last few years, who's to say this doesn't spark a nuclear exchange in Europe?

[DarkHunter]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

Like all other wars, once this one begins, there will be a real chance for miscalculation, followed by escalation.  I agree that doing nothing would guarantee that he'll come back for more but backing him into a corner from which the only egress includes global humiliation, is a recipe for a potential disaster.  If this party gets started and aircraft and pilots begin dying from both sides, the truth is that no one really knows where it will end.  With all the other inexplicably crazy things that have been occuring in the last few years, who's to say this doesn't spark a nuclear exchange in Europe?

I cant see it starting a nuclear war, it's a possibility but seems remote.  I can be wrong and this is only my opinion but I cant see this moving beyond a regional war largely kept inside of Ukraine.  A loss would be humiliating to Putin and probably be the end of his political career and possibly his life but as long as the conflict is contained to within Ukraine, maybe a few kilometers into Russia along the Ukranian border, I cant see Russia using nuclear weapons.  Once they start losing they would almost certainly threaten to use them if the conflict continues into Russia but that would be expected and the conflict would end shortly after.  

There is a possibility the conflict could extend into Belarus, Poland, Romania, and the Baltics which would result in the conflict being much more dangerous and drastically increasing the chance of nuclear war but as long as it doesnt expand too far east or west there probably still wouldn't be a nuclear exchange.  But an expanded war is the absolute last thing Russia would want, they simply dont have the ability in manpower or equipment to have a front line that stretches from the Baltic sea to the Black sea while also defending the far eastern parts of Russia.  If the war expands beyond Ukraine an American invasion of Vladivostok becomes a serious possibility, Japan might even jump in seeing it as a way to end the dispute over the Kuril islands with Russia.

Unless NATO or Russia is facing complete defeat resorting to nuclear weapons arent really in any parties best interests since once they are used the only end result is complete destruction.  

[Helen of Annoy]

10 hours ago, and then said:

Like all other wars, once this one begins, there will be a real chance for miscalculation, followed by escalation.  I agree that doing nothing would guarantee that he'll come back for more but backing him into a corner from which the only egress includes global humiliation, is a recipe for a potential disaster.  If this party gets started and aircraft and pilots begin dying from both sides, the truth is that no one really knows where it will end.  With all the other inexplicably crazy things that have been occuring in the last few years, who's to say this doesn't spark a nuclear exchange in Europe?

The fact that Putin actually alluded to use of nuclear weapons ("and it would be a war without the winning side") was shocking not because it managed to sound threatening, it was shocking because how on Earth he didn't notice it sends the message he thinks he's about to lose in the conflict he and only he is trying to ignite.

It didn't sound threatening because it's not realistic. And if grandpa went that insane to start throwing nukes, then nothing you do or don't do matters, he's going to lob a nuke because he wants to. It's something Russian military should prevent on time - doesn't have to, but it would be the cleanest choice. 

I'm surprised he painted himself in a corner like this. Nothing he does now will make him seem strong and seeming weak is his greatest fear. Developments of situations he wanted to prevent or at least slow down were accelerated. 

It's almost like he had wrong data and wrong assessment on literally everything. (Starting with totally wrong assessment of the true influence his fifth column can achieve in the West. Recent "convoy" travelling circus included.) Or he ignored it all because he has to resurrect USSR or die trying. I bet my life ( no, seriously  and yours too  ) there's not many of those willing to follow his suicidal intentions. We'll find out relatively soon. 

[Duke Wellington]

RT News covering how British forces have begun evacuating from Ukraine, the last soldier will be out tomorrow.

War is on its way it seems.

[DarkHunter]

More commercial flights are getting canceled in and out of Ukraine.  Reports of the American embassy are destroying documents and equipment and that a plan is in place to immediately move to Lviv when the invasion happens to keep trying to help any Americans who will end up trapped in Ukraine.  The couple hundred American military trainers are also being pulled out of Ukraine.  Heard NATO is planning to send battalion tactical groups to the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria in case of a Russian invasion on the condition that the country agrees to host the troops.  So far it seems Hungary is the only country who has said they dont want the extra troops being stationed in the country.

It seems Biden has told allies, but not Ukraine, that Russia will attack February 16.

[Helen of Annoy]

12 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

 

It seems Biden has told allies, but not Ukraine, that Russia will attack February 16.

If it's in the news, and it is in the news, then it's not something that was shared with some while keeping others in dark. 

First you people were badmouthing Germany like you don't understand how counter-productive it is, how that's precisely that what Putin needs and now it's Biden keeping Ukraine in dark or something? (You have to start realizing the usual trumpian level of propaganda and projection is simply too stupid for the rest of the world.)

Zelenskyy said that all the "imminent invasion" talk is doing more damage than good because it is doing more damage than good, not because he wasn't told that, what was told to literally everyone in the world. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

14 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

RT News covering how British forces have begun evacuating from Ukraine, the last soldier will be out tomorrow.

War is on its way it seems.

I do not foresee this staying localized in Ukraine, either.

[DarkHunter]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

If it's in the news, and it is in the news, then it's not something that was shared with some while keeping others in dark. 

First you people were badmouthing Germany like you don't understand how counter-productive it is, how that's precisely that what Putin needs and now it's Biden keeping Ukraine in dark or something? (You have to start realizing the usual trumpian level of propaganda and projection is simply too stupid for the rest of the world.)

Zelenskyy said that all the "imminent invasion" talk is doing more damage than good because it is doing more damage than good, not because he wasn't told that, what was told to literally everyone in the world. 

First, the whole Biden not telling Ukraine is largely tied to this.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2022/02/11/putin-could-attack-ukraine-on-feb-16-biden-told-allies-00008344

Article doesnt go into everything but what I was referring to is tied to that, specifically how before announcing it Biden had a phone call with Western leaders telling them how American intelligence believes Russia will invade on February 16.  The Ukrainian government wasnt too thrilled that they werent a part of the call and found out during the press release.  To restate it that link just mentions the phone call before the press release, I heard from other sources which I dobt have time to find that the Ukranian government wasnt thrilled with not bring a part of the call and finding out by press release.

Honestly though you are becoming rather annoying with your whole dont say anything bad about Germany cause it's all Russian propaganda.  Germany is blocking much needed weapon shipments to Ukraine, that is a fact and not propaganda.  Various members, even entire political parties, have voiced concerns over not sanctioning Russia too harshly.  I get that you have this weird obsession with being a German apologist and believe calling out Germany on questionable behavior will destroy NATO and the EU and bring about massive war but the reality is Germany is not being a reliable ally, NATO isnt that particularly unified at the moment over Ukraine, and not calling out these problems will cause far more harm then ignoring them for whatever weird fear based justification you try to use.

I'm guessing in traditional fashion you will respond with how I'm either a Russian propagandist or too dumb to know what I am doing.  Atleast I'm willing to call out a problem so it can be fixed instead of letting NATO rot from the inside out to keep a vene of unity which is completely and utterly worthless but makes people feel good.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

First, the whole Biden not telling Ukraine is largely tied to this.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2022/02/11/putin-could-attack-ukraine-on-feb-16-biden-told-allies-00008344

Article doesnt go into everything but what I was referring to is tied to that, specifically how before announcing it Biden had a phone call with Western leaders telling them how American intelligence believes Russia will invade on February 16.  The Ukrainian government wasnt too thrilled that they werent a part of the call and found out during the press release.  To restate it that link just mentions the phone call before the press release, I heard from other sources which I dobt have time to find that the Ukranian government wasnt thrilled with not bring a part of the call and finding out by press release.

Honestly though you are becoming rather annoying with your whole dont say anything bad about Germany cause it's all Russian propaganda.  Germany is blocking much needed weapon shipments to Ukraine, that is a fact and not propaganda.  Various members, even entire political parties, have voiced concerns over not sanctioning Russia too harshly.  I get that you have this weird obsession with being a German apologist and believe calling out Germany on questionable behavior will destroy NATO and the EU and bring about massive war but the reality is Germany is not being a reliable ally, NATO isnt that particularly unified at the moment over Ukraine, and not calling out these problems will cause far more harm then ignoring them for whatever weird fear based justification you try to use.

I'm guessing in traditional fashion you will respond with how I'm either a Russian propagandist or too dumb to know what I am doing.  Atleast I'm willing to call out a problem so it can be fixed instead of letting NATO rot from the inside out to keep a vene of unity which is completely and utterly worthless but makes people feel good.

The whole "Biden not telling Ukraine" is such a stupid construct, since the situation is going on for months now and meetings, talks and messages were so numerous and even more of them are about to happen, in all imaginable formats and combinations. "Imminent invasion" is not American stance since yesterday, they've been insisting on it since literally last year. 

You tell me, so it doesn't look like I'm pointing that out too often, what type of source would be interested in imagining division between the US and Ukraine at this moment? What type of idiot would be busy creating reasons to criticize Biden, even if such effort accidentally benefits Putin?  

 

Oh, you can say anything bad about Germany, as long as it's true.

Same goes for any other country. It's called being accurate, not apologetic.

Your claim that Germany is not a reliable ally is not true. (You were not able to give any links to any source citing NATO that would indicate your claim might be true. You further falsely claimed that NATO can't have an official stance on such matters since it's not an organization that issues formal statements  or some such hilarious bullcrap  )

Your claim that "NATO isn't that particularly unified at the moment over Ukraine" is not true. What is real is an avalanche of joint statements and efforts, every single one in unison agreement about what is going on and what will be done. Versus Putin's wishful thinking that his fifth column in the West can create some sort of panic and division. 

So your divisive constructs are not true, they are not supported with facts. Being divisive they were clearly meant to benefit Putin. Just like that implication that NATO is worthless, no matter how clever it may seem to you, that it was wrapped in false concern.   

You're not the topic and I don't care what are your motives, so I also don't care if you understand what you're doing or not. It makes no difference. 

 

What I do care about is pointing out the obvious propaganda is obvious. Only an idiot would fall for it. Which is the silver lining of this crisis - Putin did weaponize idiots in the West, mobilized them in various populist projects (and each anti-vax campaign can be traced to the same propaganda compost pile) but the further it escalates, more useless his once useful idiots become. Because it's one thing to abuse democracy in normal setting and something completely else to be self-declared adherent of hostile regime in a war, be it cold or hot.

[Duke Wellington]

26 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The whole "Biden not telling Ukraine" is such a stupid construct, since the situation is going on for months now and meetings, talks and messages were so numerous and even more of them are about to happen, in all imaginable formats and combinations. "Imminent invasion" is not American stance since yesterday, they've been insisting on it since literally last year. 

You tell me, so it doesn't look like I'm pointing that out too often, what type of source would be interested in imagining division between the US and Ukraine at this moment? What type of idiot would be busy creating reasons to criticize Biden, even if such effort accidentally benefits Putin?  

What is happening is NATO has gone all Julius Caesar on Russia.

We have adopted an aggressive stance right outside their home. One where two options are available - fight or retreat. Everything is tied down with constant pressure to prevent there being any other outcome. What Ukraine wants is largely irrelevant at this point. 

If Putin fights, he will get economic sanctions, sanctions which Russia will not be able to cope with unless it grabs further countries to prop itself up - Romania and Bulgaria (which it has already positioned its navy in the Black Sea to do), Moldova and Transnistria (which will cave to Russia without a fight, and may even be pressured into helping in the attack on Ukraine), the Baltic States (which its already positioned to do from Belarus), and Finland (the Fins are panicking and have ordered 56 F-35).

Meanwhile Hungary is aligning itself with Russia to prevent themselves being invaded if Putin goes for it.

If Putin backs down then he is finished politically, something which I honestly don`t see him doing.

What should be worrying for you Helen is Serbia has started militarising again, and Russia would look to link up with them. They will run amok in the Balkans to take the pressure off Russia from NATO. And who knows, China might even see it as the perfect time to grab Taiwan along with North Korea grabbing South Korea. If they all hit together then NATO isn`t stopping them all.

We might even find Iran decides to cut the oil ships off from the Gulf.

[Helen of Annoy]

51 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

What should be worrying for you Helen

 

What should be worrying you is that I'm not worried. 

 

It's one really humorous collection of misconceptions and miscalculations you posted, I applaud your effort. Be sure to continue with humorous contributions to otherwise serious threads. 

[jmccr8]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:06 PM, DarkHunter said:

But they wouldn't be in the field hospital potentially if they had the weapons and ammo they need which Germany is doing everything they can to prevent which only benefits Russia.

Hi Dark

Are you saying that if they send arms that no one will get shot or killed other than Russians? In a conflict both sides get shot up and actually a lot of medical surgical procedures in Germany are top notch seeing as they have been patching up people that drive on the autobahn.

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

What should be worrying you is that I'm not worried. 

 

It's one really humorous collection of misconceptions and miscalculations you posted, I applaud your effort. Be sure to continue with humorous contributions to otherwise serious threads. 

Dont worry Helen, Britain will save you all.

Well we normally do lmao.

[DarkHunter]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dark

Are you saying that if they send arms that no one will get shot or killed other than Russians? In a conflict both sides get shot up and actually a lot of medical surgical procedures in Germany are top notch seeing as they have been patching up people that drive on the autobahn.

Germany blocking an artillery transfer that was made in the USSR, stationed in East Germany, and later sold to Estonia after the collapse of the USSR on the grounds that Germany has a policy of not allowing German origin weapons to be sent to areas of active conflict while Germany has no problems selling weapons to the entirety of the middle east and various other nations involved in military action is a problem.  Occasionally Germany will throw out a statement of how they wont allow German made weapons to kill Russian civilians again, even though the artillery was made in Russia and was left behind after the USSR collapsed.

Essentially Germany has been blocking every weapon and ammo shipment to Ukraine that it possibly can, they have blocked more then just artillery, and then pretending that setting up a single field hospital means they are on the exact same page and helping just as much as the other NATO members.

To put in it perspective America has sent javelin anti-tank weapons and hundreds of tons of various other small arms and ammunition, UK has sent thousands of anti-tank weapons and military trainers, Baltic states have sent javelin and stinger missiles, Czechia (formerly Czech Republic) has sent thousands of rounds of artillery and various small arms, Poland is sending whatever weapons that can help basically, and Germany is blocking everything it can but says setting up a singular field hospital is just as good and that NATO is clearly united on this issues.  I cant remember if it was Czechia or Poland, might be both but I think its Poland, but recently made an agreement to take in and treat any and all wounded Ukranian soldiers.

To top it off certain German politicians and political parties are saying we shouldn't sanction Russia too harshly and that working with Russia economically will produce better diplomatic results eventually instead of sanctions and military actions.

But if one points out these problems they get accused of being a Russian propagandist or too stupid to know how dangerous it is to point out these problems as apparantly ignoring them and not calling out bad behavior is better for NATO.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Germany blocking an artillery transfer that was made in the USSR, stationed in East Germany, and later sold to Estonia after the collapse of the USSR on the grounds that Germany has a policy of not allowing German origin weapons to be sent to areas of active conflict while Germany has no problems selling weapons to the entirety of the middle east and various other nations involved in military action is a problem.  Occasionally Germany will throw out a statement of how they wont allow German made weapons to kill Russian civilians again, even though the artillery was made in Russia and was left behind after the USSR collapsed.

Essentially Germany has been blocking every weapon and ammo shipment to Ukraine that it possibly can, they have blocked more then just artillery, and then pretending that setting up a single field hospital means they are on the exact same page and helping just as much as the other NATO members.

To put in it perspective America has sent javelin anti-tank weapons and hundreds of tons of various other small arms and ammunition, UK has sent thousands of anti-tank weapons and military trainers, Baltic states have sent javelin and stinger missiles, Czechia (formerly Czech Republic) has sent thousands of rounds of artillery and various small arms, Poland is sending whatever weapons that can help basically, and Germany is blocking everything it can but says setting up a singular field hospital is just as good and that NATO is clearly united on this issues.  I cant remember if it was Czechia or Poland, might be both but I think its Poland, but recently made an agreement to take in and treat any and all wounded Ukranian soldiers.

To top it off certain German politicians and political parties are saying we shouldn't sanction Russia too harshly and that working with Russia economically will produce better diplomatic results eventually instead of sanctions and military actions.

But if one points out these problems they get accused of being a Russian propagandist or too stupid to know how dangerous it is to point out these problems as apparantly ignoring them and not calling out bad behavior is better for NATO.

Hi Dark

So not sure what you are talking about seeing as I asked if only Russians would get shot in a conflict seeing as how you don't think the Ukraine will need medical support if there is a conflict.