How long have is been known that COVID-19 is dangerous

[Raptor Witness]

I believe that this was the first thread here, regarding the outbreak in China, but it wasn't the first thread here warning U.S. of danger on the immediate horizon.

 

 

[stereologist]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:41 PM, Solipsi Rai said:

From someone who might be the 100 millionth case of covid when I had mild but unusual symptoms of this "new cold", we may have to accept the reality the entire human race in the future will have to live with the endemic disease evolving into a normal human common cold coronavirus. I recommend everyone in the world in the 2nd year of the Covid pandemic and I'm turning 42 in 3 days (Feb 15) to just get the covid vaccine in 1-4 shots for the time being. And was there a "red pill" developed for those stricken with severe covid illness announced a month ago?

There have been a number of efforts to help those stay out of the hospital or save their lives once admitted. That is why the death rate which was close to 6% has dropped to 0.2%.

The new pill can be taken orally. Similar treatments in the past required an IV to administer the drugs.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-first-oral-antiviral-treatment-covid-19

[stereologist]

Onto the next system in the body that is damaged by COVID-19. That is the muscles of the body.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8069858/

Quote

Both laboratory investigations and body composition quantification measures (e.g., computed tomography, CT) portray muscle loss in symptomatic Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients. Muscle loss is associated with a poor prognosis of the disease. The exact mechanism of muscle damage in COVID-19 patients, as well as the long-term consequences of muscle injury in disease survivors, are unclear.

This report is from April 2021, a year into the pandemic.

[stereologist]

Here is an article that shows you the extent of the damage that COVID-19 does to human lungs.

https://scitechdaily.com/new-trick-for-old-drug-protecting-against-covid-19-lung-damage-and-blood-clots/

It is well known to happen to people that even have an asymptomatic case of the disease.

So why do the mask****s, the anti-vaxxer scum of the Earth, and the fascist yelling anti-lock down clowns pretend this is not happening?

What makes these bad people rail against the truth?

Why do they try and convince others to head down the path of ruin, pain and suffering?

 

[stereologist]

The well established dangers of COVID-19, not including death, are the reason that tactics such as lock downs were employed.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968401?uac=200437SJ&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4019934&src=mkm_covid_update_220214_MSCPEDIT#vp_1

In that link we learn how lock downs were able to reduce deaths by up to 35%.

We also learn how mortality reduction is determined. There are 3 main ways used by epidemiologists.

• modeling
• before and after
• difference in difference

Here is a modeling plot showing how lock downs prevented deaths. Please note that this is a log plot. It deals with deaths. Because the dangers to those that survive the infection is a significant percentage of the infected we can infer that a large number of people were also spared the long term dangers.

[stereologist]

Important disclaimer. The following material is not yet published.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968318

This study that is yet to be peer reviewed suggests that the damage done is related to the severity of the disease.

Quote

The study shows that the degree of severity of COVID-19 is associated with worsened cognitive function, mental health, functional recovery, and quality of life.

It will take a while before this study makes it through the gauntlet of research procedures. But it is well worth a heads up to see if this does turn out to be correct.

[Raptor Witness]

22 hours ago, stereologist said:

Here is an article that shows you the extent of the damage that COVID-19 does to human lungs.

https://scitechdaily.com/new-trick-for-old-drug-protecting-against-covid-19-lung-damage-and-blood-clots/

It is well known to happen to people that even have an asymptomatic case of the disease.

So why do the mask****s, the anti-vaxxer scum of the Earth, and the fascist yelling anti-lock down clowns pretend this is not happening?

What makes these bad people rail against the truth?

Why do they try and convince others to head down the path of ruin, pain and suffering?

 

"What makes these bad people rail against the truth?"

Isn't it obvious, by now? The source of the plague is the same as the source of the "powerful delusion."

 

{"This lie about masks should’ve been censored also, but it wasn’t, because accompanying the plague was a powerful delusion, to make sure that many Americans could not escape.

When Pope Francis, recently censored, “lead us not into temptation,” from the Lord’s prayer, he was mistaken.

You should in fact pray that God Almighty will not send a powerful delusion to prevent you from escaping a peril.

The delusion is part of the penalty."}

Post #14 - February 1, 2021 by Raptor Witness

 

Behold, "an undermining army that you do not know, or understand ..."

Source Post #10

Source

 

[stereologist]

Another pre-publication suggests that the new variant is more dangerous.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968848?uac=389284HY&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4031455&src=mkm_covid_update_220218_MSCPEDIT

Quote

Subvariant May Be More Dangerous Than Omicron: Study

 

Quote

The Omicron subvariant, BA.2, is not only more transmissible than the original Omicron strain, BA.1, but may cause more severe disease, a lab study from Japan says.

Quote

What's more, therapeutic monoclonal antibodies used to treat people infected with COVID didn't have much effect on BA.2. 

We'll have to see if this study passes peer review

[stereologist]

For almost 2 years now it has been known that COVID-19 is  dangerous disease. One well Known issues is vascular damage and clots which can lead to strokes.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968576?uac=389284HY&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4025427&src=mkm_covid_update_220216_MSCPEDIT#vp_2

Quote

The temporary increase in stroke risk early after an infection isn't novel; the pattern has been observed with influenza, respiratory infections, and shingles, said Yang. "But COVID-19 appears to be particularly risky."

 

[Only_]

7 hours ago, stereologist said:

Another pre-publication suggests that the new variant is more dangerous.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968848?uac=389284HY&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4031455&src=mkm_covid_update_220218_MSCPEDIT

We'll have to see if this study passes peer review

I'll put a huge caveat: The study was done on hamsters. I think human data is more relevant. Also, it's not peer-reviewed as you mention.

So far all the relevant data point to the BA.2 sub-variant as no more dangerous than it's original.

Omicron subvariant BA.2 likely to have same severity as 'original' -WHO

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-subvariant-ba2-likely-have-same-severity-original-who-2022-02-01/

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Only_

[stereologist]

9 minutes ago, Only_ said:

I'll put a huge caveat: The study was done on hamsters. I think human data is more relevant. Also, it's not peer-reviewed as you mention.

So far all the relevant data point to the BA.2 sub-variant as no more dangerous than it's original.

Omicron subvariant BA.2 likely to have same severity as 'original' -WHO

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-subvariant-ba2-likely-have-same-severity-original-who-2022-02-01/

 

Do you have any idea why hamsters are used in the study? These animals have been used in COVID-19 research for nearly 2 years.

Notice that your link is not peer reviewed and in fact is speculation without evidence or testing. It is based on no reports, no data, just human perception of the situation. Testing is done to make sure that human perception is not in error.

The animal study suggests that there is more damage to the lungs. The issue is not only about the severity of the acute portion of the disease, but its long term chronic damage.

[Only_]

23 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Do you have any idea why hamsters are used in the study? These animals have been used in COVID-19 research for nearly 2 years.

Notice that your link is not peer reviewed and in fact is speculation without evidence or testing. It is based on no reports, no data, just human perception of the situation. Testing is done to make sure that human perception is not in error.

The animal study suggests that there is more damage to the lungs. The issue is not only about the severity of the acute portion of the disease, but its long term chronic damage.

Real-world data doesn't support the conclusions of this study. That's where the lab animal model seems to show serious limitations. The ten countries where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant are not seeing higher rates of hospitalizations or death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1). In fact, quite the contrary is happening, the numbers are on the decline. What seems to be the case, though, is that B.2 is even more contagious.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Only_

[stereologist]

6 minutes ago, Only_ said:

Real-world data doesn't support the conclusions of this study. That's where the lab animal model seems to show serious limitations. The ten countries where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant are not seeing higher rates of hospitalizations or death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1). In fact, quite the contrary is happening, the numbers are on the decline. What seems to be the case, though, is that B.2 is even more contagious.

There is no real world data. No one has looked into the chronic long term damage from the B2 variant. That is what this study is about.

This entire thread is about the chronic long term damage that people are refusing to acknowledge.

The number of hospitalizations is not a measure of the severity of the disease.

The number of deaths is not a measure of the chronic long term health issues caused by the disease.

 

[stereologist]

Here is an interesting comment.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/a-stealth-omicron-subvariant-is-now-spreading-worrying-experts

Quote

For now, it’s tough to say anything for sure until more real-world data come in. “Obviously, there are not yet direct experimental measurements for BA.2,” Bloom notes, “so we will know more soon.”

That's from Feb 3, 2022

[stereologist]

20 minutes ago, Only_ said:

Real-world data doesn't support the conclusions of this study. That's where the lab animal model seems to show serious limitations. The ten countries where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant are not seeing higher rates of hospitalizations or death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1). In fact, quite the contrary is happening, the numbers are on the decline. What seems to be the case, though, is that B.2 is even more contagious.

Check this out. I was pretty sure that Denmark's rates have gone up and they are a country on the top of the list with BA.2 right?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220217/covid-rates-jump-denmark-no-restrictions

Quote

In late January, COVID-19 cases appeared to peak in Denmark. After the emergence of BA.2, the Omicron subvariant, cases began to rise again and reached a new all-time high on Feb. 13, surpassing the record from December 2020.

Hospitalizations also climbed in Denmark, surpassing the U.K. rate in early February and the U.S. rate this week. About 1½ times more Danes are now hospitalized with COVID-19 than ever before during the pandemic. If COVID-19 deaths continue to increase, Denmark could set a record in coming days, Yahoo News reported.

In Denmark "where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant is seeing higher rates of hospitalizations and death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1)." Bolding is where I altered your quote.

[Only_]

13 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Check this out. I was pretty sure that Denmark's rates have gone up and they are a country on the top of the list with BA.2 right?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220217/covid-rates-jump-denmark-no-restrictions

In Denmark "where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant is seeing higher rates of hospitalizations and death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1)." Bolding is where I altered your quote.

I think you are misinterpreting the data.

''But those rises haven't been accompanied by concerning upticks in severe disease and hospitalizations, as noted in a recent epidemiological report by the World Health Organization. In Denmark, where BA.2 is quickly nearing 100 percent of all infections, researchers have seen no difference in hospitalizations among people infected with BA.2 compared with BA.1. The analysis accounted for sex, age, vaccination status, time period, region, comorbidity, and previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. In South Africa, where BA.2 is also dominant, hospital admissions continue to decline. And likewise, in Nepal, though BA.2 cases have risen in February, cases still continue to fall from late January, and use of intensive care and mechanical ventilation is also on the decline.''

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/omicron-subvariant-ba-2-worrying-lab-results-but-comforting-real-world-data/

We are not seeing more severe symptoms or hospitalizations with BA.2, which would be expected if the sub-variant was a more dangerous disease.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Only_

[stereologist]

1 hour ago, Only_ said:

I think you are misinterpreting the data.

''But those rises haven't been accompanied by concerning upticks in severe disease and hospitalizations, as noted in a recent epidemiological report by the World Health Organization. In Denmark, where BA.2 is quickly nearing 100 percent of all infections, researchers have seen no difference in hospitalizations among people infected with BA.2 compared with BA.1. The analysis accounted for sex, age, vaccination status, time period, region, comorbidity, and previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. In South Africa, where BA.2 is also dominant, hospital admissions continue to decline. And likewise, in Nepal, though BA.2 cases have risen in February, cases still continue to fall from late January, and use of intensive care and mechanical ventilation is also on the decline.''

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/omicron-subvariant-ba-2-worrying-lab-results-but-comforting-real-world-data/

We are not seeing more severe symptoms or hospitalizations with BA.2, which would be expected if the sub-variant was a more dangerous disease.

Again I did not misinterpret the article I linked to. I stated exactly what they stated. SInce BA.2 arrived there has been an uptick in hospitalizations and deaths.

You stated that hospitalizations were down in 10 countries, but that is clearly disproven with the case of Denmark. Notice that the Arstechnica article does  not repeat your claim. Here is what you posted: "The ten countries where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant are not seeing higher rates of hospitalizations or death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1). " I pointed out with the case of Denmark that your statement is false.

Here is the issue. The Arstechnica article does NOT cover the extent of organ damage, which is the issue in this thread. Notice that the article does not cover whether or not there has been a surge in hospitalizations in Denmark. Due to this surge in hospitalizations Denmark is likely to reach its greatest death rate.

What your article also does NOT cover is the effectiveness of mabs that are available.

I have shown that you have misrepresented the data.

[Only_]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Again I did not misinterpret the article I linked to. I stated exactly what they stated. SInce BA.2 arrived there has been an uptick in hospitalizations and deaths.

According to a report from the Statens Serum Institut in Denmark:

''There is still no evidence to support that BA.2 is associated with an increased risk of
hospital admission.''

https://en.ssi.dk/-/media/arkiv/subsites/covid19/risikovurderinger/2022/risk-assesment-of-omicron-ba2.pdf?la=en

Quote

You stated that hospitalizations were down in 10 countries, but that is clearly disproven with the case of Denmark. Notice that the Arstechnica article does  not repeat your claim. Here is what you posted: "The ten countries where the B.2 sub-variant has become dominant are not seeing higher rates of hospitalizations or death from severe illness than with Omicron (B.1). " I pointed out with the case of Denmark that your statement is false.

The burden of proof is on you. You claim that the BA.2 sub-variant of Omicron is more dangerous, yet the best you can provide as evidence is a Japanese study done on animals that is not even peer-reviewed. I have just shown you that real-world data (the ones that seems most relevant for humans) from the WHO and other health organizations worldwide do not support your contentions.

We also have a recent study from South Africa, another country where BA.2 is dominant:

South African study calms fears of harsher new version of Omicron variant

''The rapidly spreading omicron BA.2 subvariant doesn’t cause significantly more severe disease than the original version, according to a South African study that appears to allay fears it causes harsher illness.

Patients infected with the new subvariant suffered from similar rates of severe disease and hospitalisation as those with the original omicron strain, according to researchers from the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases that analyzed data from a large hospital group and the government laboratory service, looking at almost 100,000 cases.''

https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/559648/south-african-study-calms-fears-of-harsher-new-version-of-omicron-variant/

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Only_

[OpenMindedSceptic]

"Follow the science"

Like Kary Mullins inventor of the PCR tests?

"No, not him"

Like Ribert Malone key inventor of the mRNA vaccine?

"No, not him either"

Peter McCullough, one of the most cited doctors in North America?

"No not him either"

................

See how this works yet?

 

[Autochthon1990]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:06 PM, Raptor Witness said:

I believe that this was the first thread here, regarding the outbreak in China, but it wasn't the first thread here warning U.S. of danger on the immediate horizon.

 

 

Man I remember telling my coworkers at Copper Mountain "Oh another one? It's just going to be like swine flu was in senior year, people fuss over it, but it's just going to be a flash in the pan". 

 

Anyway a few weeks later we were shut down by the state. Bit of a mess, that. 

[stereologist]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:21 AM, OpenMindedSceptic said:

"Follow the science"

Like Kary Mullins inventor of the PCR tests?

"No, not him"

Like Ribert Malone key inventor of the mRNA vaccine?

"No, not him either"

Peter McCullough, one of the most cited doctors in North America?

"No not him either"

................

See how this works yet?

 

Here you are showing that you are NOT following the science. Instead of the science you are following names.

Of course you don't follow the evidence.

[stereologist]

On 2/19/2022 at 11:34 PM, Only_ said:

According to a report from the Statens Serum Institut in Denmark:

''There is still no evidence to support that BA.2 is associated with an increased risk of
hospital admission.''

https://en.ssi.dk/-/media/arkiv/subsites/covid19/risikovurderinger/2022/risk-assesment-of-omicron-ba2.pdf?la=en

The burden of proof is on you. You claim that the BA.2 sub-variant of Omicron is more dangerous, yet the best you can provide as evidence is a Japanese study done on animals that is not even peer-reviewed. I have just shown you that real-world data (the ones that seems most relevant for humans) from the WHO and other health organizations worldwide do not support your contentions.

We also have a recent study from South Africa, another country where BA.2 is dominant:

South African study calms fears of harsher new version of Omicron variant

''The rapidly spreading omicron BA.2 subvariant doesn’t cause significantly more severe disease than the original version, according to a South African study that appears to allay fears it causes harsher illness.

Patients infected with the new subvariant suffered from similar rates of severe disease and hospitalisation as those with the original omicron strain, according to researchers from the country’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases that analyzed data from a large hospital group and the government laboratory service, looking at almost 100,000 cases.''

https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/559648/south-african-study-calms-fears-of-harsher-new-version-of-omicron-variant/

I posted the claims that the BA.2 variant was potentially more dangerous based o n increased organ damage in an animal study. I showed that your claim about higher rates of hospitalizations and deaths was false.

And what you posted was not peer reviewed either. So that is not a difference. You also posted a report from Denmark that was older. It is based on a time when BA.2 is less than half the cases in the country.

If you knew anything about why hamsters were chosen then you would know a little bit more about the issue. Animal models are very good predictors.

Here is what we do know, since January 1 of this year there have been 4312-3272 = 1040 deaths. This is 24% of all deaths in the pandemic have been in 2022. The first deaths were in March of 2020. Let's be conservative and say there were 21 previous months of the pandemic in Denmark.In 9% of the time we see 24% of the deaths. The other high death rate was 1 year ago.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

The South African study dos NOT have anything at all to do with long term organ damage.

This thread is about the long term consequences of COVID-19, not hospitalizations and deaths.

[Indiogene]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:51 PM, Solipsi Rai said:

My 4 distinct long covid symptoms which oddly hadn't attack my lungs:

I "Felt" my body organs ache for up to 3 months but the pain is mild or numbing; same with my fingers and toes, hands and feet, and muscle aches like my thighs (I always get this first or my commonly experienced symptom in colds and flus). Typical fever said to be the most reported covid symptom and chills were equally frequent in my 10 days while I was in a 12 day quarantine based on 14 days of most symptoms. And minor less of hair but the main concern I have is my brain had increased and still continuous memory issues that is going to make it harder to remember a few things of some importance.

This was back on January 2021 before the vaccines came out, I wish I never had COVID anyway, but I feel proud to survive this. I been in contact with Survivor Corps made up of COVID survivors to had mild, moderate and severe COVID illness in their experience in the last 2 years of the pandemic. There should be a local branch I can reach and I help commemorate the 900,000 Americans plus 7 million more people worldwide to lost their lives by, from or related to COVID.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Solipsi Rai

[stereologist]

Throughout this thread it has been established that:

1. COVID-19 attacks numerous organs with the body
2. The threat of this disease was well known early on in the pandemic

Despite this there are many people still pretending this disease kills rarely and the others are unharmed. My terribly naive.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/969944?uac=389284HY&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4076628&src=mkm_covid_update_220309_MSCPEDIT

Quote

COVID-Related Cognitive Decline Predicted to Boost Global Dementia Rates

Quote

Of note, say the researchers, is the fact that 21% of people with severe COVID-19 had progressive cognitive decline, suggesting that COVID-19 may cause long-lasting damage to cognition.

"These findings imply that the pandemic may substantially contribute to the world dementia burden in the future," they add.

"As survivors of severe COVID-19 are at high risk in developing long-term cognitive impairment, measures should be taken to protect the brain at acute stage of infection and to prevent the cognitive decline after hospital discharge," Wang told Medscape Medical News.

 

[stereologist]

More research is being done on how COVID-19 affects the brain.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/969906

Quote

Even mild cases of COVID-19 are associated with brain changes including decreased gray matter, an overall reduction in brain volume, and cognitive decline, a new imaging study shows.

In the first study to use magnetic resonance brain imaging, before and after COVID-19, investigators found "greater reduction in grey matter thickness and tissue-contrast in the orbitofrontal cortex and parahippocampal gyrus, greater changes in markers of tissue damage in regions functionally connected to the primary olfactory cortex and greater reduction in global brain size." However, the researchers urge caution when interpreting the findings.

Quote

Results showed that although some loss of gray matter over time is normal, individuals who were infected with SARS-CoV-2 showed a 0.2% to 2% brain tissue loss in the parahippocampal gyrus, the orbitofrontal cortex, and the insula — all of which are largely involved in the sense of smell.

Participants who had contracted COVID also showed a greater reduction in overall brain volume and a decrease in cognitive function.

Quote

"What this study almost certainly shows is the impact, in terms of neural changes, of being disconnected from one's sense of smell," he added.