Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[F3SS]

23 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi F3SS

Damn straight.

Irrelevant cheap shot, maybe we should send our truckers to Moscow and really scare them.

On the world stage it's completely relevant. My God, the Ukrainian president is standing in the midst of actual bombs and the Canadian Prime Minister can't even look his own people in the eye. It's a tale of leadership VS cowardice and showmanship. If it helps, I have no faith in biden to show a spine now or ever. He's been hidden from adversity since the day he launched his campaign.

Perhaps if more world leaders stood as strong Russia wouldn't be so bold. Godspeed to the Ukrainian people. 

[F3SS]

14 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's funny when someone doesn't buy into the mainstream news narrative he is labelled as pro Russia or whatever.

I believe only one side of the story is being regurgitated by our leaders and journalists here in the West.

Forget the media. Putin stated his reasoning and as far as I could comprehend his speech this is nothing but an old war style conquering mission. I see no legitimate reasoning other than desire. 

[DarkHunter]

British MoD believes Russia has failed to meet its day one objectives largely due to stiff Ukrainian resistance.  It does seem Russia has captured Chernobyl and is holding workers hostage there.

[Tatetopa]

24 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's funny when someone doesn't buy into the mainstream news narrative he is labelled as pro Russia or whatever.

I believe only one side of the story is being regurgitated by our leaders and journalists here in the West.

It is hard to see the other side of an overwhelming military force attacking a neighbor. If Ukraine wanted to remain a part of Russia, they would not have voted for independence 30 years ago.  Our government has a lot of faults and that could be said of all Western governments.  Most  of us in the West have a hope of changing what we don't like by voting.  Not the case in Russia. IMO even if Western Europe had not expanded, Putin would have considered Ukraine leaving the union  a  traitorous flaw that needs to be corrected.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Tatetopa
spelling correction

[+and-then]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-presented-options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558

I haven't seen this anywhere else.  I wonder what options he'll be willing to employ?

[Only_]

27 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

British MoD believes Russia has failed to meet its day one objectives largely due to stiff Ukrainian resistance.  It does seem Russia has captured Chernobyl and is holding workers hostage there.

I have seen reports that Ukraine has retaken an airport near Kyiv which would be an impressive feat.

It cannot be stressed enough that this airport is vital, if the Russians take it, they will use it to land more troops on the ground and eventually surround the capital.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10549353/Ukraine-RETAKEN-Kyiv-airport-Russian-special-forces-claims-defense-minister.html

Edited February 25, 2022 by Only_

[Tatetopa]

13 minutes ago, and then said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-presented-options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558

I haven't seen this anywhere else.  I wonder what options he'll be willing to employ?

Like nuclear weapons, cyberattacks can be devastating.  The Russians are quite good at it.  We might be capable of crippling Russia, but the same is true, they could cripple us.   JMO if cyberattacks crippled Russia and they feel backed up against the wall  it is not a substitute for nuclear weapons but a possible prelude. If Putin thinks he has lost it all, Russia may be of no further use to him.

[F3SS]

If Vlad was taken out from the inside, or the outside for that matter, do you think there would be hell to pay or would the remaining Russian leadership have a weight lifted from their shoulders, breathe a sigh of relief and end this crap? I tend to believe these dictators have little genuine loyalty from their subordinates. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by F3SS

[DarkHunter]

19 minutes ago, Only_ said:

I have seen reports that Ukraine has retaken an airport near Kyiv which would be an impressive feat.

It cannot be stressed enough that this airport is vital, if the Russians take it, they will use it to land more troops on the ground and eventually surround the capital.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10549353/Ukraine-RETAKEN-Kyiv-airport-Russian-special-forces-claims-defense-minister.html

The Ukranian military took it back hours ago, the Russian attempt at it was poorly planned and executed and resulted in a lost of multiple helicopters and a unit of VDV and SSO.

[+joc]

57 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's funny when someone doesn't buy into the mainstream news narrative he is labelled as pro Russia or whatever.

I believe only one side of the story is being regurgitated by our leaders and journalists here in the West.

Okay...let me analyze your statement...

You believe the Russian side isn't being told.  Thank you for verifying what I thought.  I thought you were a Russian sympathizer.  The only story here is that Russia massed its military on Ukrainian borders and attacked them without provocation.  So, why do you think they did that?  Obviously you have a storyline of your own...what is it? 

[Occult1]

10 minutes ago, joc said:

 The only story here is that Russia massed its military on Ukrainian borders and attacked them without provocation. So, why do you think they did that?  Obviously you have a storyline of your own...what is it? 

I think you need to do your homework. Care to do a bit of reading?

Quote

What You Should Really Know About Ukraine

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Occult1

[Duke Wellington]

5 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Considering 600+ Russians were lost at the airport near Kiev those numbers are definitely wrong, seems like they are from a Russian government source.

Oh, I had gone to bed by the time someone replied.

It was German TV.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, and then said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-presented-options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558

I haven't seen this anywhere else.  I wonder what options he'll be willing to employ?

Macron had just called Putin, because the Ukrainian leader couldn`t get through.

The Ukrainian leader is desperate to say `we surrender` lol.

Russia didnt get all of its day 1 goals, its special forces got slaughtered at Kiev airport, and kicked back out.

[F3SS]

I don't think the Ukrainian pres is desperate to surrender. He said he called Putin and it was silence on Russia end. I don't know if that means he got through or not though. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by F3SS

[Duke Wellington]

51 minutes ago, joc said:

Okay...let me analyze your statement...

You believe the Russian side isn't being told.  Thank you for verifying what I thought.  I thought you were a Russian sympathizer.  The only story here is that Russia massed its military on Ukrainian borders and attacked them without provocation.  So, why do you think they did that?  Obviously you have a storyline of your own...what is it? 

RT News is still legal (as of the present moment) and there are many Twitter feeds on the war.

The Russian sides arguments are that they cannot have NATO on their border. Firstly it violates they agreement (which exists in writing, contrary to claims) between NATO and Russia where NATO agreed not to expand east. Secondly Trump left the nuclear treaties and then NATO build AMD silos in Eastern Europe which undermines the Russian nuclear deterrent. Thirdly the arrival of hypersonic weapons means that from its borders Moscow could be hit in as little as 4 minutes.

Then there are the territorial claims where Russia in the past gifted several regions to Ukraine, so it thinks it can take them back with Ukraine wanting to join the EU and NATO. And in his rambling speech the other night he asserted a right to claim all former USSR territory. They seem to have also convinced themselves that Ukraine is full of neo-nazis who think ill of Russia. 

[DarkHunter]

Large Russian jet shot down over Kiev, not clear if it was a bomber or a transport plane but it went down in a residential area.

 

 

[Occult1]

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

Doesnt Russia have big old bombs that they could drop and wrap things up then and there?

We have only seen Phase I of the invasion. The U.S. expects Kyiv to fall within days and Ukranian forces to surrender soon after. It's gonna be swift and concise. The capital is already encircled. I mean what else do we expect, Russia has air, ground and sea supremacy. Russia is ranked second in military strength worldwide just behind the United States. Some people like DarkHunter believe that Ukraine will fight a 'guerilla-style warfare' against Russia but the Ukrainian people are not talibans. They want to enjoy a normal life, as we do. Though I'm sure the extreme elements (neo-nazis - white supremacists - far-right groups) will not give up easily, especially with fundings and extra weapons.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Occult1

[Duke Wellington]

Handing out weapons to civilians means three things.

Firstly, Ukraine is already close to collapse so its desperate for fighting men.

Secondly, the move will make civilians a target and cause a blood bath (I consider this one irresponsible, if a country is going to loose why force your population to endure needless civilian casualties).

Thirdly, as the weapons are being given out in Kiev then they expect the arrival of the Russians in the capital imminently.

Kiev is going to get levelled in what will be shocking scenes.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Cookie Monster

[+susieice]

Ukrainian President says sabotage groups have entered Kiev.

https://www.bernama.com/en/sports/news.php?id=2055432

[+Hammerclaw]

In eight years of warfare in Donbass, the Ukrainians have mastered the art of asymmetric warfare. Conventional Russian ground troops, expecting a cakewalk, like 2014, are in for a blood bath of their own. 

[Only_]

Ukraine says missile strikes on Kyiv have resumed as Russian invasion enters 2nd day

The Pentagon has told U.S. lawmakers Russian troops are about 30 kilometres outside Kyiv, according to sources.

[...]

The military also said it was involved in intense fighting in the city of Sumy in Ukraine’s northeast.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8645150/ukraine-russia-invasion-kyiv/

[ExpandMyMind]

8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Some reports of Russian tanks firing on civilian cars in atleast one city now.

I saw a video of them rolling right over a car trying to escape. Crushed it like tin foil.

[DarkHunter]

16 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I saw a video of them rolling right over a car trying to escape. Crushed it like tin foil.

Seems the Russians dont care about any Ukranian civilians they injure or kill

[+and-then]

9 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The armour on The T-90 is quite a bit better and will defeat them unless it hits a right place on the turret.

I'm mostly unschooled on its capabilities but I saw one test-fired a couple of weeks ago and this isn't your grand dad's armor piercing round.  It actually flies OVER the tank and the detonation occurs over the top of the turret.  It's pretty damned impressive from a weapons point of view.

[DarkHunter]

16 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm mostly unschooled on its capabilities but I saw one test-fired a couple of weeks ago and this isn't your grand dad's armor piercing round.  It actually flies OVER the tank and the detonation occurs over the top of the turret.  It's pretty damned impressive from a weapons point of view.

He is just about completely wrong.

The T-90 is essentially a marginally upgraded T-72.  They both got the same drive system, fire control system, I think same autoloader, same dimensions including armor thickness, ect.  The company who designed and produce the T-90 also designs and produces the T-72.  The only real difference are the reactive armor, which can and has been put on T-72s that have been upgraded and a handful of relatively useless gimmicks systems like the two dazzlers meant to confuse guided anti-armor weapons that make the T-90 look like it has two red eyes, they dont really work on modern anti-armor weapons and the most modern T-90 variants Russia uses doesnt even have them installed.  There are differences but nothing major, it was originally named T-72BU.

After the first gulf war with Saddam's T-72s getting absolutely wrecked by America and the UK they essentially renamed the tank to avoid a loss in weapon sales.

Edited February 25, 2022 by DarkHunter