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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6

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16 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

If I remember correctly you were saying the capital was about to fall within hours days ago.  So far the capital has not fallen and the Russians have left a stupidly long convoy on the way to Kyiv in a formation that is perfect to be attacked and destroyed, like how Ukraine has done to multiple other Russian convoys already.

Ultimately the timeline makes no difference. That doesn't change what appears to be an inevitable outcome.  It looks like Russian forces are massing around Kiev and other major cities to prepare for a big military push. I just don't see how Ukrainian forces can roll that back without foreign military intervention, which no one seems willing to provide. They will most likely be forced to capitulate and/or strike a deal in negotiations with Russia.

Edited by Occult1
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1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Ultimately the timeline makes no difference. That doesn't change what appears to be an inevitable outcome.  It looks like Russian forces are massing around Kiev and other major cities to prepare for a big military push. I just don't see how Ukrainian forces can roll that back without foreign military intervention, which no one seems willing to provide. They will most likely be forced to capitulate and/or strike a deal in negotiations with Russia.

Guess we will see and when you are wrong again I will point it out to you once again.

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On 2/27/2022 at 2:17 AM, Coil said:

All attacks are successfully repelled in different cities. The enemy failed to take Nikolaev, Kharkov, Kyiv.

Now a convoy of 20 armored personnel carriers and tanks, which the Ukrainian soldiers tried to block by blowing up the bridge in Bucha, has found a way out and is heading in the direction of Svyatoshyn, Kyiv.

This column will be stopped and destroyed. Zelensky says that the attackers have one or two attempts.

20 vehicles? That would be about one company in a US armored unit.

In a US tank division there's usually 3 or more Brigades, or three or more battalions, with four companies per battalion. 

Attacking a city would likely be a Brigade level movement, of at least 12 companies, or about 180 tanks/armored vehicles.

Why are the Russians sending in their guys one, and two, companies at a time? 

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2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

 I just don't see how Ukrainian forces can roll that back without foreign military intervention, which no one seems willing to provide. 

Supposedly, because they never asked. Not a single other country apparently was asked for troops in support. I find that hard to believe, but its what the news supports I guess.

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2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

20 vehicles? That would be about one company in a US armored unit.

In a US tank division there's usually 3 or more Brigades, or three or more battalions, with four companies per battalion. 

Attacking a city would likely be a Brigade level movement, of at least 12 companies, or about 180 tanks/armored vehicles.

Why are the Russians sending in their guys one, and two, companies at a time? 

I've heard rumours that some Russian vehicles have run out of fuel and were left. 

Not sure if that's true, but it's indicating very bad organisation. I suspect it is all harder than expected.

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2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Ultimately the timeline makes no difference. That doesn't change what appears to be an inevitable outcome.  It looks like Russian forces are massing around Kyiv and other major cities to prepare for a big military push. I just don't see how Ukrainian forces can roll that back without foreign military intervention, which no one seems willing to provide. They will most likely be forced to capitulate and/or strike a deal in negotiations with Russia.

There is never any certainty about the outcome of a war.  None.  Large forces have often been slaughtered by much smaller forces.  In terms or raw numbers, while the Russians have 900,000 troops, and more reserves, BUT they have only committed 150,000 to this attack, which is less than the Ukranian army, let alone its reserve, and demonstrates a certain level of fatal arrogance on the part of the Russians.  Putin, in the face of military failure seems determined to opt for the tragic Russian formula of drowning their enemies in blood.  The idea that the Russians have a cutting edge modern military lies in tatters; blown up on the road to Kyiv and Kharkiv.  The Russians are now so desperate that they are resorting to indiscriminate shelling, and calling in Belarus to attack in the far west of Ukraine.  Presently Ukraine is weathering the attack very well.    Ukranian forces had destroyed 146 tanks and 706 APCs at last count, and plenty of other equipment besides.  Every BTR-80 APC has a crew of 3 and can hold 7 troops, which means casualties in the thousands right there.  Yes, of course the Ukranians desperately need and will benefit from international support, but the Russian death-toll is getting larger every day, and every day fresh embargoes and sanctions are hitting Russia, and its people are rising in protest.  Meanwhile, Putin is hiding in the Urals, as his grip on power begins to slip.  Protests around the world and in 46 Russian cities with hundreds of arrests...  Anonymous has taken over Russian broadcasting and turned Russia's Propaganda TV into a propaganda weapon against Putin.  The situation continues to unfold...

Edited by Alchopwn
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4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I've heard rumours that some Russian vehicles have run out of fuel and were left. 

Not sure if that's true, but it's indicating very bad organisation. I suspect it is all harder than expected.

Maybe they expected to capture gas stations along the way or something? If so, very stupid plan.

Isn't Russia a huge oil producer? Yet they can't fuel their military for a few days?

If so, may as well as demilitarize most of Europe because the Russians will never get passed the Polish border.

 

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9 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Maybe they expected to capture gas stations along the way or something? If so, very stupid plan.

Isn't Russia a huge oil producer? Yet they can't fuel their military for a few days?

If so, may as well as demilitarize most of Europe because the Russians will never get passed the Polish border.

Ukraine has been employing Turkish Bayraktar drones  to successfully strike Russian supply lines.  At least 60 tanker trucks have blown up. video of a Bayraktar drone strike.

Russian Crematorium Vehicles must be working overtime, assuming that open air APC BBQs are not enough.

Edited by Alchopwn
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2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Why are the Russians sending in their guys one, and two, companies at a time? 

Poor training due to deeply rooted corruption and terrible planning with a desperate need to keep to unrealistic timetables.

Essentially each battalion tactical group is made up of two to four companies, and supporting assets.  From some stuff I heard it seems like the Russians are having difficulty moving battalion tactical groups around quickly, largely due to poor training of the majority of the troops, so to avoid congestion and bottle necks  to keep on their time tables they have dispersed the troops into company size to make movement quicker and easier for the poorly trained troops.  Their plan seems to be the battalion tactical group would disperse to quickly reach its objective then rejoin to launch an attack, but companies are getting lost or not coordinating well or just straight up running out of fuel.  This is allowing the Ukranians to pick off companies at will essentially.

To get an idea of movement difficulty the Russians are having, miles outside of Kyiv there is a Russian convoy anywhere from 17 to 40 miles long with hundreds of vehicles all on one highway.  Heard an unconfirmed rumor the only reason this convoy hasnt been struck yet is due to some of it being in or close to the Chernobyl exclusion zone and the Ukranian military doesnt want to risk kicking up radioactive material so they are waiting for the convoy to get further away first, but that is only a rumor I have heard online.

Also to add in how poorly trained the Russians are there is a disturbingly high number of armored vehicles and tanks that have been driven off of bridges.  There is atleast one Russian T-90 tank now on it's back in a river due to being drove off of a bridge.

Should probably also mention for poor planning the main offensive element for the Russian military, and what Russia has committed heavily to Ukraine, is the battalion tactical group which is made up of 2 to 4 companies and supporting assets.  Beyond poor training and a need to keep unrealistic time tables each battalion tactical group was probably given way too much ground to be responsible for given their small size.  To put it in perspective the Russian battalion tactical group has 600 to 800 soldiers, the corresponding American brigade combat team has either 4,413 soldiers, 4,500 soldiers, or 4,743 soldiers.  Both the Russian battalion tactical group and American brigade combat team are essentially expected to do the same roles it seems.

Edited by DarkHunter
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2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I've heard rumours that some Russian vehicles have run out of fuel and were left. 

Not sure if that's true, but it's indicating very bad organisation. I suspect it is all harder than expected.

A lot of Russian vehicles have been abandoned due to running out of fuel.  Seems the Russian leadership expected this war to only last no more then three or four days.  According to an increasing number of  surrendered Russian soldiers they have ran out of food and fuel.  Seems the Russian military didnt really dedicate any significant logistical support to the invasion and what little they have brought in has been heavily targeted by Ukranian special forces and drones.  From confirmed pictures and videos 60 fuel trucks and one train carrying fuel has been destroyed by Ukraine, other logistic trucks destroyed if I remember correctly are well over a 100.

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2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Ukraine has been employing Turkish Bayraktar drones  to successfully strike Russian supply lines.  At least 60 tanker trucks have blown up. video of a Bayraktar drone strike.

Russian Crematorium Vehicles must be working overtime, assuming that open air APC BBQs are not enough.

The crematorium vehicles are unconfirmed. I posted it earlier in the thread. Bad as it is, we need to keep perspective. I honestly wonder what Russian troops are thinking.

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5 hours ago, razman said:

Fascinating.

If you think that’s fascinating, you should watch Band of Brothers (and its sister show, The Pacific). It will immediately jump into your top 5 of shows and media. It’s incredible what they went through in WW2.

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4 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Ultimately the timeline makes no difference. That doesn't change what appears to be an inevitable outcome.  It looks like Russian forces are massing around Kiev and other major cities to prepare for a big military push. I just don't see how Ukrainian forces can roll that back without foreign military intervention, which no one seems willing to provide. They will most likely be forced to capitulate and/or strike a deal in negotiations with Russia.

You’ve been away for a few days mate. You been trying to get your money from the bank before it’s too late? :lol:

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Hearing more stuff about how apparently out of what little food was provided to the Russian troops before the invasion started it seems a large percentage of it expired in 2015.  Not saying it's not still edible as it's the Russian equivalent of American MREs but probably not the best moral boost to open up your food and see an expiration date of 2015, especially after being told you were going on a training exercise till you ended up on the border and told you are now invading another country.  To make matters worse the civilians you were told will welcome you as a liberator are throwing Molatov cocktails at you every chance they get.  

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3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Maybe they expected to capture gas stations along the way or something? If so, very stupid plan.

Isn't Russia a huge oil producer? Yet they can't fuel their military for a few days?

If so, may as well as demilitarize most of Europe because the Russians will never get passed the Polish border.

 

In the Blitzkreig in WW2 the German armour relied on refuelling at gas stations on the way through France. At 3 gallons per mile, it was close to impossible to get enough fuel to the fighting vehicles. Weirdly, I was once part of an armoured column in Germany (Exercise Crusader 80). The vehicles were always breaking down and needed jump starts and maintenance. That was the  point of the exercise I guess, to see how it could be done. (WW2 was also the origin of the "Jerry cans", which were such a successful way of refuelling the Brits and Yanks copied the idea).

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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It will be beyond tragic if Putin gets away with invading a European country, trashing it, and executing its leaders and his political oponents. But that is what it looks like will happen, because a more robust response from the West will lead to WW3 (as this thread title suggests). Europe and the West needs to get its act together. Lets hope Putin is digging his own grave:The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine | Sergey Faldin | The Guardian

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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2 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

It will be beyond tragic if Putin gets away with invading a European country, trashing it, and executing its leaders and his political oponents. But that is what it looks like will happen, because a more robust response from the West will lead to WW3 (as this thread title suggests). Europe and the West needs to get its act together. Lets hope Putin is digging his own grave:The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine | Sergey Faldin | The Guardian

Putin has a history of executing political opponents.  He has NEVER been a 'good' leader and has had hundreds, if not thousands of journalists, political opponents and even simple citizens killed which is the only reason he's been in power in Russia together with his close cronies for so long.  Makes you laugh how Right Wing western leaders and media admired him until they realised the world was horrified at this invasion and it wouldn't have been a good political move to align themselves to him. 

Here are some quotes from the useful Right wing idiots who were prepared to discard his well known murderous implementions but prepared to admire him as a 'strong' (right wing) leader:

DONALD TRUMP: I said, this is genius. Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine - of Ukraine - Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful. So Putin is now saying it's independent - a large section of Ukraine. I said, how smart is that?

TUCKER CARLSON: It may be worth asking yourself, since it is getting pretty serious, what is this really about? Why should I hate Putin so much?” he said on his Tuesday night show. “Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?

MIKE POMPEO: Putin is a very talented statesman. He has lots of gifts. He was a KGB agent, for goodness sakes. He knows how to use power. We should respect that.
NIGEL FARAGE: If you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised when he reacts. Farage went on record for saying Putin was the leader he most admired.

Many others like Sean Hannity, Tulsi Gabbard, Marie Le Pen......and the list goes on.

Also laughable is how the Right wing is prepared to blame Biden's weakness for Putin's audacity in the invasion while ignoring the fact they've admired this murderer and built up his reputation for years as the strong leader they most admired.  Disgusting hypocracy.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Putin has a history of executing political opponents.  He has NEVER been a 'good' leader and has had hundreds, if not thousands of journalists, political opponents and even simple citizens killed which is the only reason he's been in power in Russia together with his close cronies for so long.  Makes you laugh how Right Wing western leaders and media admired him until they realised the world was horrified at this invasion and it wouldn't have been a good political move to align themselves to him. 

Here are some quotes from the useful Right wing idiots who were prepared to discard his well known murderous implementions but prepared to admire him as a 'strong' (right wing) leader:

DONALD TRUMP: I said, this is genius. Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine - of Ukraine - Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful. So Putin is now saying it's independent - a large section of Ukraine. I said, how smart is that?

TUCKER CARLSON: It may be worth asking yourself, since it is getting pretty serious, what is this really about? Why should I hate Putin so much?” he said on his Tuesday night show. “Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?

MIKE POMPEO: Putin is a very talented statesman. He has lots of gifts. He was a KGB agent, for goodness sakes. He knows how to use power. We should respect that.
NIGEL FARAGE: If you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised when he reacts. Farage went on record for saying Putin was the leader he most admired.

Many others like Sean Hannity, Tulsi Gabbard, Marie Le Pen......and the list goes on.

Also laughable is how the Right wing is prepared to blame Biden's weakness for Putin's audacity in the invasion while ignoring the fact they've admired this murderer and built up his reputation for years as the strong leader they most admired.  Disgusting hypocracy.

Hi mate, good to see you back, but can I ask that you don't post any partisan content in this thread. Obviously the points you bring up are important (and I agree with them, personally), but this is a thread specifically about the war and how ****ing badass Ukraine is. Let's not allow it to devolve into one of the thousands of other threads full of partisan bickering. 

Feel free to make another thread to discuss Trump, Biden or anyone else, as I and others have done.

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38 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Hi mate, good to see you back, but can I ask that you don't post any partisan content in this thread. Obviously the points you bring up are important (and I agree with them, personally), but this is a thread specifically about the war and how ****ing badass Ukraine is. Let's not allow it to devolve into one of the thousands of other threads full of partisan bickering. 

Feel free to make another thread to discuss Trump, Biden or anyone else, as I and others have done.

Putin gets his 'strength' from right-wing appeasers. Black Red Devil is right to call them out. We can't discuss Ukraine without referencing politics.

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8 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Putin gets his 'strength' from right-wing appeasers. Black Red Devil is right to call them out. We can't discuss Ukraine without referencing politics.

But we're not discussing Ukraine in this thread, we're discussing the Ukraine war with Russia. Plenty of space elsewhere on the forum to discuss what we see to be the causes of the conflict.

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Ukraine's application to join the EU has been approved. The vote will take place at 16.30 (not sure which time-zone).

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8 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Supposedly, because they never asked. Not a single other country apparently was asked for troops in support. I find that hard to believe, but its what the news supports I guess.

‘Prove you are with us’, Ukraine’s Zelenskyy tells EU

''Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has urged the European Union to prove that it sides with Ukraine in its war with Russia a day after signing an official request to join the bloc.

“We are fighting to be equal members of Europe,” Zelenskyy told an emergency session of the European Parliament on Tuesday via video link.

“Do prove that you are with us. Do prove that you will not let us go. Do prove that you are indeed Europeans and then life will win over death and light will win over darkness,” he said in Ukrainian in a speech translated to English by an interpreter talking through tears, as emotion gripped the parliament.''

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/prove-you-are-with-us-ukraine-president-urges-eu

The Ukrainian governement is begging for a foreign military intervention. So far, nobody has responded to their plea.

Edited by Occult1
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8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Guess we will see and when you are wrong again I will point it out to you once again.

Would have be happy if the Russian army just throwed their weapons or go Ukrainian side... probably would have resulted in a nuclar strike...

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