Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Occult1 said:

How is it different from Russia and Putin?

The chief difference is that it only occurred AFTER a foreign government (with a substantial sympathizer base inside Ukraine) physically invaded Ukraine.  The simple fact that you'll never be able to explain away, is that until Putin chose to unilaterally grab the territory of another sovereign nation and to begin a rebellion within that sovereign state, there was NO widespread violence against the Russian-speaking Ukrainians. 

Just be honest.  You support the crime of Russia STEALING the territory and resources of a separate nation.  EVERYTHING that flows from that choice is the fault of Putin's criminal behavior.  A rational, sober individual should be looking at this conflict as a test of whether our shaky global order is going to survive or not.  Massive changes are happening now in the very concept of sovereignty and the rights of nations to resolve their own internal differences.  Putin's actions have done more to destabilize the global order than any of us can grasp at this point.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

In 2014, a democratically elected  president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, was overthrown.

IF this is true, and I admit that it could be true, then Ukrainians have a right to resist the new government as illegitimate.  If another election in the U.S. is as sketchy as 2020 was, that scenario is a real possibility here.  People will begin to ignore and or resist the central authority of our Federal government.  What we WON'T DO, is call for a 3rd nation to come into a war on our behalf.  Imagine having Mexico or Canada simply take a few states at the margins of our territory and begin a civil war to chip away at the rest of the country.  That is what Russia is doing.  It's nothing less than theft on a massive scale with BS political rhetoric to cover for it.

[Occult1]

Mariupol: Four reasons the city matters so much to Russia

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60825226

Very interesting analysis.

As extremist fighters are on the brink of defeat, trapping innocent civilians with them, capturing Mariupol remains strategically important for Russia.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Occult1

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Seems like a convenient excuse to ban all forms of opposition. The opposition to Zelensky is lumped into the ''Pro-Russian'' camp for the only reason that it is not Pro-NATO/E.U.

You do realize that that most of these parties have publicly opposed Russian intervention?

In any other country, you would be the first to admit that it's a move towards dictatorship.

In 2014, a democratically elected  president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, was overthrown.

People actually voted for that government to be put in power. That's how democracy works.

Yes, an invasion by a foreign military is always convenient. Just what every leader wants.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

In 2014, a democratically elected  president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, was overthrown.

People actually voted for that government to be put in power. That's how democracy works.

And then in 2019, people voted out Yanukovych's successor and voted in the current president, Zelenskyy. Democratically.

But you wanted people to assume Zelenskyy was installed after Yanukovych was removed didn't you?

[odas]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

I had never read what their initial plan was.   Was it disclosed that it was to be accomplished in a week?   I'm certain that it has taken longer than planned.  If the goal was to take Ukraine no matter how long it takes or how many casualties it takes then it hasn't failed yet.  Certain parts have failed but not the end goal yet.

What is the end goal for Putin in your opinion?

[+Shooter McGavin]

His end goal is to swim freely in the Black sea, surrounded by dolphins.

[Occult1]

Tucker Carlson on the extinguishment of democracy in Ukraine.

 

[CrimsonKing]

11 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The soldiers arrived with their military parade gear packed.

Is that really a true story man?

If so damn,talk about s***ing the bed before it was even made 

[+and-then]

43 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Is that really a true story man?

If so damn,talk about s***ing the bed before it was even made 

Awkward, huh?  

[DarkHunter]

27 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Is that really a true story man?

If so damn,talk about s***ing the bed before it was even made 

There were atleast two Russian tanks captured that had a parade paint scheme.  Essentially they had St George ribbon and a red star painted on the side of the tank, generally only meant for a parade as St George ribbon and red star would mess up the tank's regular camouflage.

To the best of my knowledge it hasnt been confirmed if Russia sent parade painted tanks expecting a quick victory or if they were short on tanks and sent parade tanks/didnt have enough time to repaint parade tanks.  Either case suggests serious issues within the Russian military.

[CrimsonKing]

2 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

There were atleast two Russian tanks captured that had a parade paint scheme.  Essentially they had St George ribbon and a red star painted on the side of the tank, generally only meant for a parade as St George ribbon and red star would mess up the tank's regular camouflage.

To the best of my knowledge it hasnt been confirmed if Russia sent parade painted tanks expecting a quick victory or if they were short on tanks and sent parade tanks/didnt have enough time to repaint parade tanks.  Either case suggests serious issues within the Russian military.

No doubt man,no doubt...

Serious lack of foresight/tact either way.

[+and-then]

13 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Either case suggests serious issues within the Russian military

I don't doubt that Putin will make Kyiv look like Grozny if that's what it takes to crush Ukraine.  Time is on his side, especially if China has his back.  If his forces really are stymied and he hasn't got enough power to finish the job without reducing cities to rubble then it exposes his military in a way that could be destabilizing for the rest of Europe.  Russia has a long history of paranoia about being invaded and having their military humiliated in this way could cause Putin to "miscalculate" NATO'S response if he decided to vaporize the center of a major Ukrainian city.  

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, CrimsonKing said:

No doubt man,no doubt...

Serious lack of foresight/tact either way.

It looks like a typical kind of miscalculation where political leaders get echo-chamber feedback from their subordinates because those underlings fear loss of power or position.  I think his general staff straight-up lied to him about their capabilities and now he's being humiliated before a global audience.  This is an interesting video that gives some insight to how casually he speaks of his nuclear doctrine:

https://thebulletin.org/2022/02/putin-says-ukraine-membership-in-nato-would-make-nuclear-war-more-likely/

For my part, I'm willing to take the man at his word.  He needs to know that if he uses them, he will lose his nation, BUT, we also need to be VERY clear with our own people what is really at stake here.  

[CrimsonKing]

54 minutes ago, and then said:

It looks like a typical kind of miscalculation where political leaders get echo-chamber feedback from their subordinates because those underlings fear loss of power or position.  I think his general staff straight-up lied to him about their capabilities and now he's being humiliated before a global audience.  This is an interesting video that gives some insight to how casually he speaks of his nuclear doctrine:

https://thebulletin.org/2022/02/putin-says-ukraine-membership-in-nato-would-make-nuclear-war-more-likely/

For my part, I'm willing to take the man at his word.  He needs to know that if he uses them, he will lose his nation, BUT, we also need to be VERY clear with our own people what is really at stake here.  

I agree,and I also agree with you,Darkhunter,and a few others about your assessments on the matter and what could be or a conclusion to this matter spoken about previously...

I myself just have a feeling "in my bones" so to speak,that something isn't quite right,and there might be a bigger picture not quite seen yet...

Seeing some of our higher ups talking "diplomatically" about China one day,then talking quite "stern" the next leaves a bit of "unease" in the air...

Before COVID,China was actually quickly on pace to become the world's top economy,beating most experts opinions from just 15 years ago by a decade...

Pandemics and economics usually precede or proceed major wars throughout history...Chinese ambitions at the moment are vague,but for what they've shown of their hand in the previous decade,it can't stay that way for long.

[ExpandMyMind]

4 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Is that really a true story man?

If so damn,talk about s***ing the bed before it was even made 

It could be propaganda but I saw pics of it being unpacked. Edit- just saw Dark's post so probably not propaganda.

It was also reported last night that they're being equipped with 150 year old rifles that went out of production 50 years ago.

Edited March 22, 2022 by ExpandMyMind

[CrimsonKing]

11 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It could be propaganda but I saw pics of it being unpacked. Edit- just saw Dark's post so probably not propaganda.

It was also reported last night that they're being equipped with 150 year old rifles that went out of production 50 years ago.

Damn 

[Myles]

9 hours ago, odas said:

What is the end goal for Putin in your opinion?

I really don't know for certain, but my guess is to install a puppet government in Ukraine and rule through that.  He hasn't done that yet, but he is not done yet.   He has failed to take control in a very short amount of time but we don't know if he will fail yet.   I hope he does.

[odas]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

I really don't know for certain, but my guess is to install a puppet government in Ukraine and rule through that.  He hasn't done that yet, but he is not done yet.   He has failed to take control in a very short amount of time but we don't know if he will fail yet.   I hope he does.

You are correct with your guess when it comes to installing puppet governments. Just like he did in Checnya. But that is not his end goal I firmly believe. Russia in the old Soviet borders plus a minimum of the baltics. But it failed. He went in to slow and unorganized. Like an amateur. Still very dangerous though.

[glorybebe]

I still think Ukraine is not the only country he has his eye on. It would surprise me if he "justified" invading other countries if he get Ukraine 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Occult1]

12 hours ago, and then said:

If his forces really are stymied and he hasn't got enough power to finish the job without reducing cities to rubble then it exposes his military in a way that could be destabilizing for the rest of Europe.

The war is already over...Every serious and UNBIASED analyst will admit it. All the major cities are encircled and some are completely cut off. There is no way the Ukrainian military can reverse that on it's own. The Ukrainian forces have retreated in the urban centers and are hiding among the population. This is a clever tactic and it's extremely difficult for even one of the most powerful military in the world to take those cities and inflict defeat to the defending forces without causing horrible humanitarian crises and destruction. A swift victory without causing a tremendous amount of civilian casualties simply isn't possible in that case. So the Russian military is advancing very slowly but steadily to avoid causing too much civilian causalities. It's a war of attrition. Russia is 'grinding down' Ukrainian forces. But the enemy's propaganda machine can then claim that they are ''bogged down'', ''slow'' and have ''low morale''.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

The war is already over...Every serious and UNBIASED analyst will admit it. All the major cities are encircled and some are completely cut off. There is no way the Ukrainian military can reverse that on it's own. The Ukrainian forces have retreated in the urban centers and are hiding among the population. This is a clever tactic and it's extremely difficult for even one of the most powerful military to take those cities and inflict defeat to the defending forces without causing significant civilian deaths and destruction. A swift victory without causing a tremendous amount of civilian casualties simply isn't possible. So the Russian military is advancing very slowly but steadily to avoid causing too much civilian causalities. The enemy's propaganda machine can then claim that they are ''bogged down'', ''slow'' and have ''low morale''.

Ukraine is pushing back on multiple fronts, the only city currently surrounded is Mariupol with the only captured city being Kherson.  Meanwhile Russia hasnt advanced on any front for days and in some positions are making last minute defensive lines in a desperate attempt to stop the Ukranian military.

Within a week or two there is a good chance Ukraine will liberate Kherson and cut off tens of thousands of Russian troops from their supply lines.  

[DarkHunter]

American intelligence believes Russia is planning a false flag attack to justify Russian use of chemical and/or biological weapons.

Also on Russian television various popular tv channels are now talking about how Poland and the Baltic states are next after Ukraine and how Kaliningrad needs connected to Russia.

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

I myself just have a feeling "in my bones" so to speak,that something isn't quite right,and there might be a bigger picture not quite seen yet..

That is exactly how I feel about this situation, as well.  I also can't shake the idea that it could all go sideways and become extremely dangerous without much warning.   

[godnodog]

On 3/21/2022 at 2:46 PM, Myles said:

I'm unsure how this invasion would be defined as "failed".  If he pulled out, of course it failed.  If he sacrifices more lives than expected, wouldn't it be defined as poorly planned or something like that.  A failure of sorts, but if he meets his goal it wouldn't be a failure.  

Even if he meets his goal he still looses, even now the russian nuclear threat is becoming more of something against Putin himself.

Putin lost the war the moment he gave the go ahead order, the thing was nobody at the time knew it.

He just keeps pushing to sell an imaginated propaganda victory to save face.