Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+Razman]

30 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Something is happening in Belgorod right now and no one knows what it is.  I'm not even sure where to begin.

Over Belgorod there are reports of explosions and sonic booms, they both might be the same no one is sure yet, jets seem to be flying over the city, flares are in the sky, and Putin has declared a state of emergency in Belgorod for 60 days starting at midnight local time.  

 

This is just a very weird and confusing chain of events.

Maybe Ukraine got some more aircraft over the border again.

[+Razman]

Not directly related to Ukraine but an interesting situation if true. 

                                                            Russians Blindfolded Us and Made Us Dig Mass Graves to Cover up Their Crimes (msn.com)

[DarkHunter]

All unofficial but there seems to be a massive uptick of Russian civilian living in Crimea talking about how the war is lost and when to flee back to Russia.  Seems what has these Russian civilians living in Crimea scared is that the Ukranian military will soon invade Crimea and they will have to face what the Ukranian civilians in Mariupol, Bucha, and other towns faced at the hands of the Russian military.  

Seems safe to say the average Russian citizen probably is aware of the massacres and atrocities the Russian military is committing.  

[Gunn]

3 hours ago, and then said:

I saw this comment and decided to post a link to the recent interview where Trump acknowledged that Putin is despicable and a war criminal.  I heard the man say it and watched it happen in a Piers Morgan interview.  It was Trump's most recent interview but silly me, I didn't account for the editing.  I can't find it ANYWHERE.  These scummy interviewers won't allow anything that even moderately causes anyone to support the Bad Orange Man.  It's going to be an interesting 2024 campaign

ETA:  I kept searching and finally found the reference - 

https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/trump-blasts-putins-use-of-the-n-word-on-piers-morgans-new-show/

Later in the interview, Trump — who has previously said he’d gotten along with Putin when he was in the White House — agreed with Morgan’s assertion that the Russian president is “now an evil, genocidal monster” following the deadly invasion of Ukraine.

“I do, well sure, who wouldn’t?” Trump said when asked if he agreed.

 

lol. C'mon man. He's run his course. Dude has shot himself in the foot waaaaaaaay too many times. Besides, I've already decided to vote for DeSantis this time, whether he's running in the 2024 presidential campaign or not. I know you'd vote for DeSantis too, if Trump wasn't running for president again in 2024.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Something is happening in Belgorod right now and no one knows what it is.  I'm not even sure where to begin.

Over Belgorod there are reports of explosions and sonic booms, they both might be the same no one is sure yet, jets seem to be flying over the city, flares are in the sky, and Putin has declared a state of emergency in Belgorod for 60 days starting at midnight local time.  

 

This is just a very weird and confusing chain of events.

The concern I have with NATO messing with Russia via Ukraine is that its a very dangerous game.

From its perspective it has to safeguard itself from NATO expansion and if they cannot do that, or cannot do it with acceptable casualties, its going to throw a tantrum. If nukes fly in Eastern and Central Europe then no the USA, UK, and France, are not going to sacrifice themselves in a nuclear holocaust. I dont understand the problem some people have in grasping that.

This whole situation should never have been allowed to arise to begin with. Russia was not given a way out, we backed it into a corner leaving it with only one option - invade Ukraine.

[DarkHunter]

3 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The concern I have with NATO messing with Russia via Ukraine is that its a very dangerous game.

From its perspective it has to safeguard itself from NATO expansion and if they cannot do that, or cannot do it with acceptable casualties, its going to throw a tantrum. If nukes fly in Eastern and Central Europe then no the USA, UK, and France, are not going to sacrifice themselves in a nuclear holocaust. I dont understand the problem some people have in grasping that.

This whole situation should never have been allowed to arise to begin with. Russia was not given a way out, we backed it into a corner leaving it with only one option - invade Ukraine.

Russia put itself into the corner by repeatedly invading and threatening neighboring countries.

No matter how you want to spin it or try to be a Russian apologist the reality is that Russia is an aggressive expansionist state with dreams of recreating the USSR.  That simply can not be allowed.  Right now Russia has shown its military to be far weaker than anyone imagine along with far more corrupt.  Now while Russia is weak is the time to end the Russian threat to European stability and safety.

Real question is why do you feel the need to support and defend Russia when they are clearly the aggressor.

[el midgetron]

6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude, everything we send to Ukraine is “new money for old rope”, it’s the tatty old stuff we needed to get rid of that someone is paying/will be asked to pay too price for.

That “someone” would be me and my fellow Americans, We are paying to send BILLIONS in weapons to Ukraine. 

Australia, isn’t quite making the same investment in sending old rope to Ukraine. Honestly though, I think humanitarian aid is the way to go. That is something I could support. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

17 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

That “someone” would be me and my fellow Americans, We are paying to send BILLIONS in weapons to Ukraine. 

We, it is your proxy war with Russia, so……

17 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Australia, isn’t quite making the same investment in sending old rope to Ukraine.
 

Of course we’re not. We’re dip****s led by incompetents.

[el midgetron]

4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We, it is your proxy war with Russia, so……

Of course we’re not. We’re dip****s led by incompetents.

I dunno man, sending humanitarian aid to a humanitarian crisis seems like a good position, 

Rest assumed, the geniuses we are led by will keep sending the aid which will perpetuate the need for you to send aid. Team work.

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Enough with the derogatory personal remarks and insults please.

Also, let's not have this thread turn into an argument over US partisan politics - we have a whole section for US political news and debate.

Thank you.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Honestly though, I think humanitarian aid is the way to go. That is something I could support. 

I agree.  They will certainly need help in order help stabilize the country after this comes to an end.  

[Duke Wellington]

8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Russia put itself into the corner by repeatedly invading and threatening neighboring countries.

No matter how you want to spin it or try to be a Russian apologist the reality is that Russia is an aggressive expansionist state with dreams of recreating the USSR.  That simply can not be allowed.  Right now Russia has shown its military to be far weaker than anyone imagine along with far more corrupt.  Now while Russia is weak is the time to end the Russian threat to European stability and safety.

Real question is why do you feel the need to support and defend Russia when they are clearly the aggressor.

This conflict is over a decade in the making and is actually a struggle between three nations - USA, Russia, and China.

The USA wants to make sure this century is another American Century which means curbing a resurgent Russia and a rising China. To begin with NATO has not honoured its pledge to Russia following the collapse of the USSR by creeping east, put them into a corner where their only option was to invade Ukraine, and intends to use Ukraine as a proxy war to grind them down.

The problem is this is dangerous, as the Russians are not weak. They are the worlds 2nd military power. But the US isn`t bothered about that because if it goes wrong it is Eastern and Central Europe who will be the lambs to the slaughter.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

25 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

They are the worlds 2nd military power.

When they entered Ukraine they were the world's 2nd military power, however now they are the 2nd military power in Ukraine.

[ExpandMyMind]

 

[ExpandMyMind]

Well this destroys the whole, ‘Create a buffer zone’ argument.

 

[DarkHunter]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

This conflict is over a decade in the making and is actually a struggle between three nations - USA, Russia, and China.

The USA wants to make sure this century is another American Century which means curbing a resurgent Russia and a rising China. To begin with NATO has not honoured its pledge to Russia following the collapse of the USSR by creeping east, put them into a corner where their only option was to invade Ukraine, and intends to use Ukraine as a proxy war to grind them down.

The problem is this is dangerous, as the Russians are not weak. They are the worlds 2nd military power. But the US isn`t bothered about that because if it goes wrong it is Eastern and Central Europe who will be the lambs to the slaughter.

The pledge was never in writing or any treaty what so ever.  All the pledge was, was a US secretary of defense saying NATO wouldn't expand past the territory of east Germany while both the Warsaw Pact and USSR existed.  No one at the time expected the USSR or the Warsaw Pact to collapse completely.  Despite Russia crying how NATO violated an agreement the reality is given the context and timeframe that NATO did nothing wrong and the agreement was for a condition that no longer existed after the early 90s.

How can you honestly say Russia is not weak.  An invasion that was supposed to take 3 days is on day 68, Russia has had to abandon entire fronts and change its strategic goals, despite having a far larger and more advanced airforce Russis still hasnt managed to destroy Ukraine's airforce or gain air superiority over Ukraine, and Russia has picture confirmation of losing 3,333 military vehicles of which 599 are tanks which would be approximately 20% of their active tank force.  Large segments of their infantry have no body armor, fight without night vision equipment, and from reports out of Ukraine are more interested in looting and raping than in fighting.  No matter how you try to spin it the Russian military is weak and ineffective, given the levels of corruption seen so far there is good reason to suspect large parts of their nuclear arsenal are no longer useable.  Russia is only ranked the world's second strongest military on a single website that uses questionable metrics to determine a nations military strength.

Edited May 2, 2022 by DarkHunter

[DarkHunter]

As for what happened in Belgorod last night, while none of this has been conclusively proven, it seems a Ukranian jet entered Russian airspace and bombed some target in or near Belgorod.  It seems the Ukranian jet after hitting its target used its after burners, causing the sonic boom heard, to get back to Ukranian airspace while dropping IRCM to cover its escape as Russian air defense activated.  

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well this destroys the whole, ‘Create a buffer zone’ argument.

 

"We just need an even bigger buffer zone" 

[godnodog]

12 hours ago, and then said:

This is my instinct as well.  I don't see the little thug as being able to back down and if he isn't given at least a small chance of leaving the field with some tiny bit of "dignity", he may well use a low yield nuke in an airburst over a Ukrainian city.  Most likely it will be near a NATO border.  What happens THEN, is anyone's guess.

That would mean even more isolation as the EU/US and other major democratic economies would push even for more sanctions and I'd be betting  economics sanctions threaths to China and perhaps India would follow unless an immediate public condemnation and end of support / neutrality towards Russia.

It would also mean that Russia failed militarily.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

The problem is this is dangerous, as the Russians are not weak. They are the worlds 2nd military power. But the US isn`t bothered about that because if it goes wrong it is Eastern and Central Europe who will be the lambs to the slaughter.

Wouldn't the 2nd be China?

[spartan max2]

8 hours ago, el midgetron said:

That “someone” would be me and my fellow Americans, We are paying to send BILLIONS in weapons to Ukraine. 

Australia, isn’t quite making the same investment in sending old rope to Ukraine. Honestly though, I think humanitarian aid is the way to go. That is something I could support. 

Paying billions in military aide now could very well stop us from having to use our military in the future if Russian moves towards Finland or Sweden.  With the aide they may not even take Ukraine.

It's an investment I support it saves us lives and money in the long run .

Edited May 2, 2022 by spartan max2

[godnodog]

Uck command stated that it destroyed 2 russian raptor class reconnaissance vessels:

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1521026579555569670?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1521026579555569670|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Finternacional%2Fforcas-ucranianas-afirmam-ter-destruido-dois-navios-russos-no-mar-negro-14817493.html

News origin is from portuguese media outlet with above twitter link

[godnodog]

"Russia's elite units suffered heavy losses, says UK" 

"British intelligence indicates that at the start of the conflict, Russia committed more than 120 tactical battalion groups, about 65% of its entire ground combat force."

https://www-dn-pt.translate.goog/internacional/unidades-de-elite-da-russia-sofreram-grandes-perdas-diz-reino-unido-14817122.html?_x_tr_sl=pt&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[DarkHunter]

Mixed reports coming out on if Ukraine has captured or is assaulting Staryi Saltiv but if Ukraine has or does capture the town that will be a massive problem for the Russian military.  It seems from reports that the bridge over the river at Staryi Saltiv has already been destroyed for a while but what makes the location critical is that if Ukraine takes it it puts the rail line to Izium within range of Ukranian artillery.  The rail line is also the only logistics connection Russia has with the Izium front.

If Staryi Saltiv is captured by Ukraine than Russia will either need to abandon Izium or risk 20 to 25 battalion tactical groups getting cut off from supplies.

[Grey Area]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

This conflict is over a decade in the making and is actually a struggle between three nations - USA, Russia, and China.

If what Putin says is anything to go by, it’s centuries in the making.

 

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

To begin with NATO has not honoured its pledge to Russia following the collapse of the USSR by creeping east,

What pledge?  Where is it written anywhere in any NATO documentation that NATO will not expand?  I’ll answer that for you, nowhere, it is written nowhere.  It is also argued exactly when and where it may have been said, and was said by the US.

NATO is not a nation, and people seem to make the mistake of viewing NATO as such.  It is not a singular entity with a desire for expansion.  NATO has one mission.  That sovereign states see inclusion in NATO as being desirable speaks more about the perceived threat Russia poses than any expansionist ideals NATO holds.  This expansionist agenda placed onto NATO is quite ridiculous, no member of NATO seeks expansion and there is no gain by any member to expand other than that of security.

If Russia feels insecure about the amount of states that want to join NATO, it needs to look inward, not outward.  It’s time to stop empathising with Putin, because you can bet your bottom such empathy is entirely not reciprocated.

5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The problem is this is dangerous, as the Russians are not weak. They are the worlds 2nd military power. But the US isn`t bothered about that because if it goes wrong it is Eastern and Central Europe who will be the lambs to the slaughter.

Yes it is dangerous.  I can’t remember a time where I have worried quite so much about the world my children are going to inherit.

BUT… At some point you have stand up and call that nuclear bluff.  The alternative is that Putin will continue to do what he wants in the knowledge that simply possessing a nuclear arsenal will get you whatever you want.

If Russia thinks it can hold the world to ransom, with its nuclear doctrine, I am happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone else who wants to tell Putin to go **** himself.