Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[DarkHunter]

Just now, Hugh Mungus said:

12000 deaths in 8 years in the region.

Ukraine signed Minsk agreement to allow the region to become semi autonomous, but instead had Ukrainian backed milita conduct a civil war 

But you are ignoring how the Russian backed separatists also frequently violated the Minsk agreement too, normally breaking it before Ukraine.

The separatists fired a lot of artillery into Ukranian controlled territory during those 8 years.

[Knob Oddy]

Just now, DarkHunter said:

But you are ignoring how the Russian backed separatists also frequently violated the Minsk agreement too, normally breaking it before Ukraine.

The separatists fired a lot of artillery into Ukranian controlled territory during those 8 years.

The whole region was "Ukrainian controlled territory" contrary to what was signed.

I doubt Azov are speaking Russian and targeting Russians. I suggest that you find sources before the war started (there are quite a few) talking about the Azov brigade, which has committed war crimes and was to be disbanded. 

I also suggest that any of the overseas volunteers from America and Europe will bring their ideology home with them after the war, much like Jihadi ISIS fighters did

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

also suggest that any of the overseas volunteers from America and Europe will bring their ideology home with them after the war, much like Jihadi ISIS fighters did

? What ideology are volunteer fighters bringing home

[Knob Oddy]

8 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

? What ideology are volunteer fighters bringing home

The same as the azov brigade they are fighting with. Bonds will be formed

If they make it home that is.

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

12000 deaths in 8 years in the region.

Ukraine signed Minsk agreement to allow the region to become semi autonomous, but instead had Ukrainian backed milita conduct a civil war 

Don’t know where you get your information from because you don’t supply sources, but according to what I have discovered you comments are not accurate according to the following organization.

Center for European Policy Analysis or CEPA.

There are two Minsk Agreements, not just one. The first “Minsk Protocol” was signed on September 5, 2014. It mainly consists of a commitment to a ceasefire along the existing line of contact, which Russia never respected. By February 2015, fighting had intensified to a level that led to renewed calls for a ceasefire, and ultimately led to the second Minsk Agreement, signed on February 12, 2015. Even after this agreement, Russian-led forces kept fighting and took the town of Debaltseve six days later. The two agreements are cumulative, building on each other, rather than the second replacing the first. This is important in understanding the importance, reflected in the first agreement, of an immediate ceasefire and full monitoring by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), including on the Ukraine-Russia border, as fundamental to the subsequent package of agreements.

The LPR and DPR are not recognized as legitimate entities under the Minsk Agreements. The signatures of the leaders of the so-called Luhansk and Donetsk Peoples’ Republics were added after they had already been signed by Ukraine, Russia, and the OSCE. They were not among the original signatories, and indeed Ukraine would not have signed had their signatures been part of the deal. There is nothing in the content or format of the Agreement that legitimizes these entities and they should not be treated as negotiating partners in any sense. Russia alone controls the forces occupying parts of eastern Ukraine.

Russia is in violation of the Minsk Agreements. The deals require a ceasefire, withdrawal of foreign military forces, disbanding of illegal armed groups, and returning control of the Ukrainian side of the international border with Russia to Ukraine, all of this under OSCE supervision. Russia has done none of this. It has regular military officers as well as intelligence operatives and unmarked “little green men” woven into the military forces in Eastern Ukraine. The LPR and DPR forces are by any definition “illegal armed groups,” that have not been disbanded. The ceasefire has barely been respected by the Russian side for more than a few days at a time. 

Russian-led forces prevent the OSCE from accomplishing its mission in Donbas as spelled out in the Minsk Agreements. It is an unstated irony in Vienna — understood by every single diplomatic mission and member of the international staff — that Russia approves the mandate of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) in Ukraine when it votes in Vienna, but then blocks implementation of that same mission on the ground in Ukraine. Because Russia is a member of the OSCE, and the SMM wants to preserve what little access it has to the occupied territories, the mission is guarded in what it says about ceasefire violations and restrictions on its freedom of movement. Privately, however, they acknowledge that some 80% of such violations and restrictions come from the Russian-controlled side of the border, and those that occur on the Ukrainian side are largely for safety reasons (e.g., avoiding mined approaches to bridges.)

https://cepa.org/dont-let-russia-fool-you-about-the-minsk-agreements/

 

 

[spartan max2]

9 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

The same as the azov brigade they are fighting with. Bonds will be formed

If they make it home that is.

Lol this is such a dumb comment I'm not even going to bother.

Have a good night dude. 

[Occult1]

Russia Says It Destroyed Equipment Sent to Ukraine By U.S., European Allies

''Images purport to show Russian forces targeting and successfully firing on Ukrainian targets while claiming to have destroyed equipment provided by the United States and European countries.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) said that the images show the "destruction of Ukraine's manpower and military equipment by the Russian Armed forces in Ukraine."

They also said that "M777 155-mm howitzers delivered by USA and European countries to Ukraine have become a good target for Russian destruction means. Fifteen howitzers, mostly yet unused and deployed near Druzhkovka railway station, have been destroyed over the past 24 hours."

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-it-destroyed-equipment-sent-ukraine-us-european-allies-1717859

[Grim Reaper 6]

22 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

The same as the azov brigade they are fighting with. Bonds will be formed

If they make it home that is.

The Azov Regiment has been destroyed, during the fighting so what are you referring to?

The regiment was at a strength of approximately 2200 fighters and there are less than 800 of them left. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russia Says It Destroyed Equipment Sent to Ukraine By U.S., European Allies

''Images purport to show Russian forces targeting and successfully firing on Ukrainian targets while claiming to have destroyed equipment provided by the United States and European countries.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) said that the images show the "destruction of Ukraine's manpower and military equipment by the Russian Armed forces in Ukraine."

They also said that "M777 155-mm howitzers delivered by USA and European countries to Ukraine have become a good target for Russian destruction means. Fifteen howitzers, mostly yet unused and deployed near Druzhkovka railway station, have been destroyed over the past 24 hours."

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-it-destroyed-equipment-sent-ukraine-us-european-allies-1717859

It’s possible I suppose but, according to Newsweek nothing has been confirmed yet.

[Occult1]

4 hours ago, Trelane said:

Give it time, the sanctions have only really hit the affect desired until recently.  we all that Putin is too stubborn to realize he's wrong and would never "beg". That's why Russia has had to focus it's misguided alliance with the Chinese for exporting oil It's like putting some flex tape on the Titanic. The economic sanctions are enacting the necessary blows. Breadlines aren't obvious to spot right away. Only once they wrap around the block and you can't get what you need will be obvious. Let me know how that works out for you come this winter.

We have underestimated the economic role played by China and India. Back in February, we believed we still had a chance to draw India on our side. That failed completely. Now it is expected that Sri Lanka will also increase it's purchase of cheap Russian oil. India and other Asian nations are becoming an increasingly vital source of oil revenues for Moscow despite strong pressure from the U.S. not to increase their purchases. As such, the sanctions are not ''working''.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Occult1

[Grim Reaper 6]

26 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

The same as the azov brigade they are fighting with. Bonds will be formed

If they make it home that is.

Your welcome to not answer my posts to you, but at least provide sources to your comments without them your only offering an opinion and you not fooling anyone. If I am wrong I will own it, yet when confronted with information that proves your comments are not accurate you fail to do the same, Why?

[Trelane]

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

We have underestimated the economic role played by China and India. Back in February, we believed we still had a chance to draw India on our side. That failed. Now it is expected that Sri Lanka will also buy Russian oil. India and other Asian nations are becoming an increasingly vital source of oil revenues for Moscow despite strong pressure from the U.S. not to increase their purchases.

In the end it will not matter. The bear is dying from self-inflicted wounds. The Russian military thought this would be a drag race to victory and are now in a protracted and losing campaign.

I just feel bad for the average Russian family held captive by their own insane dictator and the bully pulpit apparatus holdovers from the failed Soviet era. Brainwashed or threatened to align themselves with Vladdy and his lying, murderous lap dogs. The shame and dishonor they have brought upon their people is immeasurable.

[Trelane]

3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Your welcome to not answer my posts to you, but at least provide sources to your comments without them your only offering an opinion and you not fooling anyone. If I am wrong I will own it, yet when confronted with information that proves your comments are not accurate you fail to do the same, Why?

He's a noted "seagull poster". Not worth your time or effort to try and reason with.

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

 

Saw this a couple hours ago. Surprised that the German TV station let him speak for so long without cutting him off.

Why are you surprised according to FREEDOM HOUSE Germany scored 79 out of 100 which is a very good score. So what’s your point about allowing the gentleman in the video speak, the only censorship that Germany is practicing is on disinformation, misinformation and propaganda which is censored by all countries to my knowledge. By the way I watched the video, and I could see nothing to sensor, all the guy did was offer his opinion, not much else. 

5 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

How are western media outlets going to spin Russia expanding their territory as a Ukrainian victory?

Maybe Nato shouldn't involve themselves with countries outside of Nato? Saying that, even New Zealand was invited to this week's Nato conference, even though you can't get further away from the north Atlantic than NZ

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 minutes ago, Trelane said:

He's a noted "seagull poster". Not worth your time or effort to try and reason with.

I am beginning to realize that, I should pay more attention because it does run with a small group of others who are like minded. Everything he has added was added previously by another individual from that group, so thanks man I won’t waste anymore time try to carry on a discussion with him!

[Occult1]

18 minutes ago, Trelane said:

The Russian military thought this would be a drag race to victory and are now in a protracted and losing campaign.

Even if what you say it's true, Russia is used to long-drawn conflicts. I will go as far as to claim that it's probably what they intended.

-Soviet–Afghan War  (1979-1989),

- The second Chechen war (1999-2009)

- Insurgency in the North Caucasus (2009-2017)

- Russian military intervention in Syria (2015-present)

- Ukraine (2014-present)

In all cases, except the Soviet war in Afghanistan (but then the U.S. suffered a similar fate), they have come out on top.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

There are quite a few sources that go into where the people who joined Azov came from and who the people are but given what you have said so far I have a feeling you will ignore anything that proves you wrong.

But there is this.

"Paradoxically—at least for purveyors of Kremlin propaganda, which holds that Ukrainians have been oppressing ethnic Russians—most Azov members are in fact Russian speakers and disproportionally hail from the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine. Even more ironically, according to my friend Anton Shekhovtsov, the preeminent scholar of the Russian and Ukrainian far right, “On average they speak better Russian than the Russian invaders. This fact alone dismisses blatant Kremlin lies about Azov allegedly fighting against Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.”"

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/defenders-of-mariupol-azov

Generally areas of where the Russian language is spoke are areas of high Russian ethnicity in Ukraine, can be inferred most of Azov were ethnic Russian.

There are more sources but I feel you will just hand wave away anything that doesnt fit the Russian narrative.

[DarkHunter]

10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

The second Chechen war (1999-2009)

Such a great victory for Russia, 8,000 to 40,000 killed Russian soldiers, Chechnya gets semi-autonomous status inside the Russian Federation, and the Russian Federation pays them 300 billion rubles a year.  Not exactly a stunning victory, generally winners dont pay the losers in a war.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

23 minutes ago, Trelane said:

In the end it will not matter. The bear is dying from self-inflicted wounds. The Russian military thought this would be a drag race to victory and are now in a protracted and losing campaign.

I just feel bad for the average Russian family held captive by their own insane dictator and the bully pulpit apparatus holdovers from the failed Soviet era. Brainwashed or threatened to align themselves with Vladdy and his lying, murderous lap dogs. The shame and dishonor they have brought upon their people is immeasurable.

Don’t even bother with him - he is honestly not going to change his mind, or attempt to see it from your point of view, because he has already decided that he will support Russia no matter what. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Such a great victory for Russia, 8,000 to 40,000 killed Russian soldiers, Chechnya gets semi-autonomous status inside the Russian Federation, and the Russian Federation pays them 300 billion rubles a year.  Not exactly a stunning victory, generally winners dont pay the losers in a war.

I also don’t think any of those situations that he mentioned are comparable to the current one, given the level of sanctions. Admittedly I don’t know a whole lot about the economic situation from all of those but I don’t think they were being sanctioned to the degree they are, now. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[Occult1]

12 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Such a great victory for Russia, 8,000 to 40,000 killed Russian soldiers, Chechnya gets semi-autonomous status inside the Russian Federation, and the Russian Federation pays them 300 billion rubles a year.  Not exactly a stunning victory, generally winners dont pay the losers in a war.

And now the Chechens fight alongside Russian troops in Ukraine.

[DarkHunter]

4 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I also don’t think any of those situations that he mentioned are comparable to the current one, given the level of sanctions. Admittedly I don’t know a whole lot about the economic situation from all of those but I don’t think they were being sanctioned to the degree they are, now. 

They werent getting sanctioned for most of those wars and any sanctions in place were against individuals in the Russian government or military.  

It's going to take awhile but with Russian imports down 50% there is going to be pain felt before too long.  Russian airlines are already starting to stop flights, cant import parts and tools needed for maintenance of the airplanes.  Trains, essentially the most vital part of Russian infrastructure will be going soon.  A lot of the train parts and tools to maintain the trains were made in western Europe or America, cant import those now either and its expensive to inst switch trains.  Computer chip imports have been stopped so precision weapon production, vehicle production including both military and civilian, and multiple other uses are all coming to a stop.  

If the war goes on into next year and the sanctions keep in place, let alone expanding, the Russian economy is going to be wrecked potentially beyond repair.

[Occult1]

14 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Don’t even bother with him - he is honestly not going to change his mind, or attempt to see it from your point of view, because he has already decided that he will support Russia no matter what. 

I don't support Russia. No one, actually. I find myself in the Russian corner in this thread by default, as this is otherwise very one-sided and inaccurate.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

Just now, Occult1 said:

And now the Chechens fight alongside Russian troops in Ukraine.

And there are Chechens fighting against Russia in Ukraine too.

Those videos of the Chechens fighting for Russia leaves a lot to be desired.  From reports though the Chechens fighting for Russia have been causing some tension in the Russian ranks, apparently the Buryats arent too thrilled with being used as cannon fodder and then having the Chechens coming up behind them and demanding to be the first ones to loot Ukranian towns and villages.  Been quite a few fire fights between the two groups.

[Occult1]

Patrick Lancaster, an independant journalist who lived 8 years in Ukraine is showing us whats really happening:

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Occult1