Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

D3vil’s avocado to counter overwhelmingly pro-Ukraine bias.

So Helen’s diatribes convinced him to stop playing devil’s advocate? Lol

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

30 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

So Helen’s diatribes convinced him to stop playing devil’s advocate? Lol

 fair play to Helen, but if she went off at me I’d be changing my ways as well. She’s like a digital Minerva McGinnigal.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

 fair play to Helen, but if she went off at me I’d be changing my ways as well. She’s like a digital Minerva McGinnigal.

I'll take that as a compliment   

 

 

One of the reasons why I don't think pro-orc propaganda spreaders should be seen as a benign matter: 

Ukraine's Operational Command "South" reported on June 25 that Russia collects information on Ukrainian service members through captured data or collaborators and uses it to kidnap families of Ukrainian soldiers, including their children.  

https://kyivindependent.com/

 

Each Russian propaganda supporter is practically a Russian collaborator even today and an actual saboteur and traitor tomorrow. 

Bearing Lukashenko's statement in mind, that applying sanctions on Kaliningrad is an act of war, that rhetorical tomorrow might come literally tomorrow. It's not someone else's business, it's Putler's intention to defeat NATO and the West in its entirety, culture of personal freedom included.

Each acquaintance each of us has, who has ever said something pro-putlerian, is not just a person with different opinion that stems from cognitive issues of some kind, it's an orc and an actual security risk. 

Just like Ukraine had to, our countries too have to allow public expressions of pro-Russian personal views, complete with spreading pro-Russian propaganda as a part of these views, but such obligation stops when the war starts. 

It is very amusing, though, to see all the westerner pro-Russians nicely outed. Right on time.  

We are very lucky that they are so... ahem-ahem.     

Edited June 26, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[Saru]

@el midgetron stick to the topic please - if you want to discuss something unrelated to the war in Ukraine, best to start a new thread.

Thank you.

[Eldorado]

Russian missile strikes hit a residential complex in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv early Sunday, wounding two people and burying others under rubble, the city's mayor Vitali Klitschko said.

Four explosions were heard at around 6:30 am (0330 GMT), half an hour after air raid sirens sounded in the capital, which has not come under Russian bombardment for nearly three weeks.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/26/russia-strikes-hit-kyiv-residential-building-mayor-a78109

Does Ukraine not have any missiles that can reach Moscow?  If not, we should give them some.

[Duke Wellington]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Several explosions rocked Ukraine's capital Kyiv early on Sunday, June 26.

According to the Ukrainian Air Force Command, on June 25, Russian forces used sea-based Kalibr missiles against targets in western Ukraine, Kh-22 and ground-based Iskander and Tochka-U missiles against targets in northern Ukraine, and Oniks missiles and Bastion complexes against targets in southern Ukraine.

"The enemy struck the capital in the morning. Air defense worked in the region - one missile was shot down. The remnants of the missile fell on the outskirts of a village," Kuleba said.

 

Source is Ukrinform. 

 

Ukraine needs more than urgent help in aviation and anti-aircraft defense. (And everything else.)

They are doing miracles with the little they have. But that's not enough to stop Russians from destroying Ukraine, since Russians don't care for conventions and the fact that they'll deplete their own conventional resources trying to break Ukrainian resistance. 

Russian missile attacks at Ukraine are carried out from the Belarus territory too. Why would it be a problem then, that defensive actions for Ukraine are carried out from Ukrainian allies' territories?   

But but but WWIII... enough of buts, it has already started, on Feb 24th, as far as Putler is concerned. Russian macabre circus will travel, it won't stop on Ukraine. They've got no brains or means to conquer, but they've got enough of dumb bombs to inflict a lot of damage. Sawed off Stalin reads extreme caution as a sign of weakness. To stop Russia now, before they lead themselves into truly desperate situation, it's essential to start hitting it back.  

Western support for Ukraine is great, it's wonderful, it's essential, but the West has every right to actively, directly defend itself by taking direct part in the defense of Ukraine, which was held outside of the EU and NATO only by illegal Russian influence.   

Morning sermon over  

NATO and Russia are in deadlock, and Ukraine is caught in the middle from picking sides.

Belarus currently have a 30,000 strong military exercise going on just over the border due to end at the end of the month. Is this their invasion training? Are they to own Kiev? And why has Russia started building up in Belarus near to the Lithuanian border? I case someone tries to stop Belarus or because they are going to connect up with Kalingrad?

[Helen of Annoy]

16 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

NATO and Russia are in deadlock, and Ukraine is caught in the middle from picking sides.

I believe you're severely misinformed. 

It was the will of majority of Ukrainian citizens to both practically and officially join both European and generally Western alliances, since the fall of the USSR. 

It is typically Russian propaganda conspiracy theory that Ukraine doesn't know where they belong.  

 

16 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Belarus currently have a 30,000 strong military exercise going on just over the border due to end at the end of the month. Is this their invasion training? Are they to own Kiev? And why has Russia started building up in Belarus near to the Lithuanian border? I case someone tries to stop Belarus or because they are going to connect up with Kalingrad?

So many questions, so few IQ points to answer them.   

[Helen of Annoy]

 

[ThereWeAreThen]

2 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Russian missile strikes hit a residential complex in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv early Sunday, wounding two people and burying others under rubble, the city's mayor Vitali Klitschko said.

Four explosions were heard at around 6:30 am (0330 GMT), half an hour after air raid sirens sounded in the capital, which has not come under Russian bombardment for nearly three weeks.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/26/russia-strikes-hit-kyiv-residential-building-mayor-a78109

Does Ukraine not have any missiles that can reach Moscow?  If not, we should give them some.

Been saying for a while we should be sending Ukraine cruise missiles. If Ruzzia can hit anywhere in Ukraine they like, Ukraine should also be able to hit Ruzzia its fair game.

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

NATO and Russia are in deadlock, and Ukraine is caught in the middle from picking sides

Or really? How many NATO troops are in Ukriane again ? 

[ThereWeAreThen]

13 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Or really? How many NATO troops are in Ukriane again ? 

We'd know if NATO were in Ukraine cause Ruzzia would be pushed out by now. 

[godnodog]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

NATO and Russia are in deadlock, and Ukraine is caught in the middle from picking sides.

Belarus currently have a 30,000 strong military exercise going on just over the border due to end at the end of the month. Is this their invasion training? Are they to own Kiev? And why has Russia started building up in Belarus near to the Lithuanian border? I case someone tries to stop Belarus or because they are going to connect up with Kalingrad?

There is no deadlock between Russia and Nato, it's as simple as this, conventional warfare Russia looses, nuclear warfare every one looses.

Russia has put itself in a no win situation, and there are still efforts to give Russia a way out, for which Russia refuses not only to take but creates new claims every week or so gor why it invaded Ukraine.

About Belarus, I find unlikely, though not impossible for them to join Russia in Ukraine, as the current regime is still in power due to Moscow intervention, if the people of Belarus riot again I have no doubt thst Russia will claim some nazis are trying to take over the country to intervene again with some special military operation bs reasons.

Also if Belarus joins Rússia it also shows that Russia despite its field gain (and unfortunately I do think Russia is winning the war but at ridiculous costs and stupidly slow western actual response) it cannot sustain for much longer the military costs of the the conflict.

Last week Russian economic forum or whatever they call it was a joke under the current circumstances.

Russia losses after this are way bigger than any gains.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

I've been watching a bit of this video, and I have to say... it's encouraging me to look at the Russo-Ukrainian war from a different angle.

Obviously it does not factor in the alleged "de-nazification" operation currently underway by Russia, but it is... interesting. And holds quite true, even seven years later.

What I find interesting is how Russia's current invasion in Ukraine happened on a date within about four days of the date that the war initially kicked off (which resulted in the annexation of Crimea): February 24th 2022 vs February 20th 2014. I am wondering if there is any significance to these events happening in February¹?

¹ Apparently there is - the Russian revolution happened in February of 1917, from the 24th to 28th.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[el midgetron]

“The west is principally responsible for this mess, not Russia”

For me, looking at the events prior to 2/24 and understanding  how US military interests are sold to the public by the US media, this is a pretty elementary thesis. Having this perspective, I also believe the way this specific conflict is now going isn’t really what he west is interested in or be willing to continue for the timeframe required to “defeat” Russia. 

[spartan max2]

35 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

The west is principally responsible for this mess, not Russia”

That's pretty dumb.

Russia invades a nation that in no way attacked them. And then blames other people for it. 

[AlonaLameDeer]

39 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

“The west is principally responsible for this mess, not Russia”

For me, looking at the events prior to 2/24 and understanding  how US military interests are sold to the public by the US media, this is a pretty elementary thesis. Having this perspective, I also believe the way this specific conflict is now going isn’t really what he west is interested in or be willing to continue for the timeframe required to “defeat” Russia. 

What a joke you are.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I've been watching a bit of this video, and I have to say... it's encouraging me to look at the Russo-Ukrainian war from a different angle.

Obviously it does not factor in the alleged "de-nazification" operation currently underway by Russia, but it is... interesting. And holds quite true, even seven years later.

What I find interesting is how Russia's current invasion in Ukraine happened on a date within about four days of the date that the war initially kicked off (which resulted in the annexation of Crimea): February 24th 2022 vs February 20th 2014. I am wondering if there is any significance to these events happening in February¹?

¹ Apparently there is - the Russian revolution happened in February of 1917, from the 24th to 28th.

I endured 14 minutes and 33 seconds.

At that point it became clear that this guy doesn't understand what the true root causes are.

It's not NATO and EU pushing eastward, on their own. It's the people in former Warsaw pact (and "unaligned" periphery) that are desperately trying to get rid of Russia and now you see why. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind you exploring the topic, I'm just saying he's doing the common mistake of assuming Eastern Europeans (in broad sense of that term, so I include myself too) are cattle without own opinions, desires and ways to make things happen the way we want. 

I've got no idea what he says after 14:33, or today, 7 years after, but he's got no idea what my folk truly wants so there. 

[el midgetron]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That's pretty dumb.

Russia invades a nation that in no way attacked them. And then blames other people for it. 

It’s the thesis of the above video.
 

What’s dumb is a strictly isolated perspective on the conflict. I believe the video predates 2/24. 

[spartan max2]

15 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

It’s the thesis of the above video.
 

What’s dumb is a strictly isolated perspective on the conflict. I believe the video predates 2/24. 

Yeah. Its a dumb thesis. Ukraine did nonething that justifies a Russian invasion. Putin needs to stop trying to relive his glory days of the Soviet union 

[Helen of Annoy]

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3515643-statement-by-kuleba-truss-we-must-ignore-the-defeatist-voices-who-propose-to-sell-out-ukraine.html

... those who propose sacrificing Ukraine’s land are actually proposing paying in Ukrainian blood for the illusion of peace, as any agreements will be a mirage unless accompanied by the restitution of Ukrainian territory and the containment of Putin’s imperialism.

"Putin has made clear he will not stop at Ukraine in his ambitions, but go further by targeting other sovereign nations – especially those he believes perniciously are part of Russia. That is why no one can feel secure until Russia retreats from Ukraine and is never able to perpetrate such aggression again," the statement said.

- end quote - 

 

First reports from G7 meeting brightened my day. That up there is from joint statement of Ukrainian Kuleba and UK's Truss. Very accurate in my opinion. Also, Macron's office says Johnson is very enthusiastic about the idea of European geopolitical union in which, of course, UK would take part. I like that idea too, since it could fix the part of Brexit damage. 

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3515643-statement-by-kuleba-truss-we-must-ignore-the-defeatist-voices-who-propose-to-sell-out-ukraine.html

... those who propose sacrificing Ukraine’s land are actually proposing paying in Ukrainian blood for the illusion of peace, as any agreements will be a mirage unless accompanied by the restitution of Ukrainian territory and the containment of Putin’s imperialism.

"Putin has made clear he will not stop at Ukraine in his ambitions, but go further by targeting other sovereign nations – especially those he believes perniciously are part of Russia. That is why no one can feel secure until Russia retreats from Ukraine and is never able to perpetrate such aggression again," the statement said.

- end quote - 

 

First reports from G7 meeting brightened my day. That up there is from joint statement of Ukrainian Kuleba and UK's Truss. Very accurate in my opinion. Also, Macron's office says Johnson is very enthusiastic about the idea of European geopolitical union in which, of course, UK would take part. I like that idea too, since it could fix the part of Brexit damage. 

That's how I would probably feel if I was a Ukrainian. 

If you concede some of your land than what is to stop Russia from invading more in the future once they recover? Russia has already shown their promises mean nonething. They didn't stop at Crimea and they won't stop at Donbas.

[el midgetron]

40 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Yeah. Its a dumb thesis. Ukraine did nonething that justifies a Russian invasion. Putin needs to stop trying to relive his glory days of the Soviet union 

Do you think the guy in the video can see into the future? Do you believe he a wizard or something?

[Helen of Annoy]

24 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That's how I would probably feel if I was a Ukrainian. 

If you concede some of your land than what is to stop Russia from invading more in the future once they recover? Russia has already shown their promises mean nonething. They didn't stop at Crimea and they won't stop at Donbas.

Exactly.

Russia has proven without any remaining doubt, that trading territory for peace with them means you gave them time to prepare new and deadlier attack on you.  

Which is why Ukraine needs more weapons and Russia needs more sanctions. 

[spartan max2]

9 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Do you think the guy in the video can see into the future? Do you believe he a wizard or something?

No. And I don't think I'm understanding your point.

 

 

[Knob Oddy]

2 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I've been watching a bit of this video, and I have to say... it's encouraging me to look at the Russo-Ukrainian war from a different angle.

Obviously it does not factor in the alleged "de-nazification" operation currently underway by Russia, but it is... interesting. And holds quite true, even seven years later.

 

Well done mate. It takes a bigger person to change their mind when presented with evidence, rather than dig in your heels and double down on your position. 

Nato expansion towards Russia was always a serious threat. This guys analysis from 7 years ago sounds like it could have been written this year its so pertinent.