Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[el midgetron]

Just now, bmk1245 said:

Civil war, heh...  Ok, civil war, as you say. How many in this civil war were killed (civilians) in 8 years since 2014 till 2022 feb 24? Bring just estimate.

I’m sure the numbers are out there but any number is to many, Do you own research and bring the facts you need to support your argument, 

[bmk1245]

7 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

At its heart, the conflict is a civil war. How has pro-Kyiv forces been attacking the Russian separatist positions for the past 8 years? They are all in Ukraine. You get the gist? 
 

Just like 8 years ago there were Ukrainian civilians inside Separatist controlled areas, there are Ukrainian civilians inside Russian controlled areas today. 
 

 

OK, you still not grasping picture of what happened.

Say El Chappo (KGB operative Strelkov) with the help of Mexican army (Russian army) "invades" Texas. No actual invasion, just few elchappos (green polite people), who proclaim Texas independant Peoples Repubkic (TiPR). You'd say "OK, fair enough, they have rights..."

I can guarantee, you would arm yourself to the teeth, and fight that bs unitl victory.

Say, I'm wrong...

Just don't raise your hands "Surrender, bandidos, chipotle.."

[jmccr8]

11 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I’m sure the numbers are out there but any number is to many, Do you own research and bring the facts you need to support your argument, 

Hi El

You are the one that is making a comparison of civilian deaths during this conflict and civilian lives lost due to separatists conflict since 2014 so it is fair for you to be asked to give some supporting references that can be checked. No one needs to research your claim as each of us will get varying searches and may not find what you are basing your claim on.

[bmk1245]

25 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I’m sure the numbers are out there but any number is to many, Do you own research and bring the facts you need to support your argument, 

Cmon, man, "but any number is to many"? Thats it?!

For f's sake, you brought "8 years" dombili bombass...

 

Edit to add: can you post areal pictures of destroyed Donetsk, Luhansk after 8 year bompardment?  Post it, I dare you.

Edited July 6, 2022 by bmk1245

[DarkHunter]

39 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

At its heart, the conflict is a civil war

A civil war where Russia organized the separatist, armed the separatists, and sent Russian soldiers in to directly fight with and aid the separatists.  You do understand the uprisings were not organic and spontaneous but part of a larger Russian plot right or is that too inconvenient to your narrative to admit.

[el midgetron]

12 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

OK, you still not grasping picture of what happened.

Say El Chappo (KGB operative Strelkov) with the help of Mexican army (Russian army) "invades" Texas. No actual invasion, just few elchappos (green polite people), who proclaim Texas independant Peoples Repubkic (TiPR). You'd say "OK, fair enough, they have rights..."

I can guarantee, you would arm yourself to the teeth, and fight that bs unitl victory.

Say, I'm wrong...

Just don't raise your hands "Surrender, bandidos, chipotle.."

You just aren’t addressing the point, You went from my point of having journalists on the ground to some unrelated tangent about “rights” and arming my self to the teeth,  

[Occult1]

Russia Says It Destroyed Ukrainian Warplanes, MLRS on Video

''Russia released footage allegedly showing an attack helicopter in action while claiming to have destroyed Ukrainian fighter jets and a Multiple Launch Rocket System.

An attack helicopter was used to fire a missile from a wooded area, along with another missile being fired at night as can be seen from these images.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed Monday that the footage shows ongoing attacks in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. Russia and pro-Russian forces are now shifting their focus to the Donetsk region after having captured the city of Lysychansk in the Luhansk region.''

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-it-destroyed-ukrainian-warplanes-mlrs-video-1721964

[bmk1245]

16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

[...]No one needs to research your claim as each of us will get varying searches and may not find what you are basing your claim on.

No one needs to research...

[Occult1]

7 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

A civil war where Russia organized the separatist, armed the separatists, and sent Russian soldiers in to directly fight with and aid the separatists.  You do understand the uprisings were not organic and spontaneous but part of a larger Russian plot right or is that too inconvenient to your narrative to admit.

How is it different from the U.S .organizing the Syrian 'Moderate' Rebels, arming the Syrian 'Moderate' Rebels and sending American soldiers in directly with and aid the Syrian 'Moderate' rebels?

Edited July 6, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

How is it different from the U.S .organizing the Syrian Moderate Rebels, arming the Syrian Moderate Rebels and sending American soldiers in directly with and aid the Syrian Moderate rebels?

Besides from your sad attempt at whataboutism I never said it was different, America is involved in the Syrian civil war.  The only difference is that America got involved after their was an organic uprising against Assad while Russia was the one behind and directly responsible for the uprising in Ukraine.  That is a rather significant difference though.

[el midgetron]

18 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Cmon, man, "but any number is to many"? Thats it?!

For f's sake, you brought "8 years" dombili bombass...

Are you contesting the conflict has been going on for 8 years?

I brought up “8 years”:believing it was an uncontroversial fact.  

[bmk1245]

2 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

You just aren’t addressing the point, You went from my point of having journalists on the ground to some unrelated tangent about “rights” and arming my self to the teeth,  

Hm, ok, fair enough, how you would call journalists on the ground covering 6th Panzer brigade (com. J.Dietrich)?

[el midgetron]

27 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi El

You are the one that is making a comparison of civilian deaths during this conflict and civilian lives lost due to separatists conflict since 2014 so it is fair for you to be asked to give some supporting references that can be checked. No one needs to research your claim as each of us will get varying searches and may not find what you are basing your claim on.

My point had nothing to do with numbers, It was to illustrate that you don’t know because there isn’t western media there reporting it. You demanding numbers from me is not only misses the point but underlines it, 

[Occult1]

12 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Besides from your sad attempt at whataboutism I never said it was different, America is involved in the Syrian civil war.  The only difference is that America got involved after their was an organic uprising against Assad while Russia was the one behind and directly responsible for the uprising in Ukraine.  That is a rather significant difference though.

'Organic uprising' in Donbass 2014:

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Occult1

[bmk1245]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

How is it different from the U.S .organizing the Syrian 'Moderate' Rebels, arming the Syrian 'Moderate' Rebels and sending American soldiers in directly with and aid the Syrian 'Moderate' rebels?

Who saw US soldiers in Syria, proof please.

[DarkHunter]

2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

'Organic uprising' in Donbass in 2014:

 

 

It's been well documented that Russia was behind the uprisings but I know you like to push the Russian narrative and their propaganda.

[Occult1]

6 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Who saw US soldiers in Syria, proof please.

US Special Forces Are Secretly Training Syrian Rebels And Fighting Alongside Them

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mitchprothero/us-special-forces-are-secretly-training-syrian-rebels-and

 

U.S. marines conduct big drills with rebels in southern Syria

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-rebels-idUSKCN1LT2V5

 

U.S. Troops With Syrian Rebels Come Under Attack, But No Americans Injured

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/07/584145287/u-s-troops-with-syrian-rebels-come-under-attack-but-no-americans-injured

 

When Russia trains, arms and fight alongside rebels in a country it's bad but when the West does it, it's a good thing.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Occult1

[el midgetron]

4 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Hm, ok, fair enough, how you would call journalists on the ground covering 6th Panzer brigade (com. J.Dietrich)?

Exactly. Just because you support a one sided narrative doesn’t refute a bias, 

Acting like it’s the most normal thing in the world to only get an approved narrative doesn’t negate the fact you are only getting an approved narrative,  

[bmk1245]

12 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Are you contesting the conflict has been going on for 8 years?

I brought up “8 years”:believing it was an uncontroversial fact.  

Show me areal pictures of Dontesk/Luhansk in 2021

[Occult1]

5 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

It's been well documented that Russia was behind the uprisings but I know you like to push the Russian narrative and their propaganda.

Yes, yes it is documented that Russia was handing out free vodka for anyone going out on the streets to protest.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Occult1

[bmk1245]

4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Exactly. Just because you support a one sided narrative doesn’t refute a bias, 

Acting like it’s the most normal thing in the world to only get an approved narrative doesn’t negate the fact you are only getting an approved narrative,  

So, narratives are:

1) Ukraine army nearing Moscow

2) russia army mearing Kiiv

Which one unbiased?

[bmk1245]

6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Yes, yes it is documented that Russia was handing out free vodka for anyone going out on the streets to protest.

Protest what?

And arests over "Нет войне" just fake news.... 

[el midgetron]

5 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Show me areal pictures of Dontesk/Luhansk in 2021

You keep asking me for data. Get it yourself, come back and make your point.

Just because the US is giving Ukraine what it needs doesn’t mean everyone in that neck of the woods can demand Americans provided them with what they need, 

You want data to make a point? Get it yourself.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

Huh, I dunno where you are from but in the west we value freedom of speech and a free press. Is locking up a journalist is ok just long as you disagree with her? I suspect that many of the pro war people would support imprisonment of the people who they disagree with, 

Locking her up because I disagree with her is ridiculous - there's a difference between locking her up because I disagree with her and locking her up because she is perpetuating support for a terrorist agenda that could actually result in more innocent Ukrainians being killed. There's a reason that there are legality issues with certain types of propaganda in different places of the world. If you take a look at some of the stuff on her Telegram page you will see that some of it is quite radical, and a far-cry from naive innocence.

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

I suspect that many of the pro war people would support imprisonment of the people who they disagree with, 

I'm sure they'd support more than imprisonment. People who are pro-Russia are, honestly, people who I would want nothing to do with.

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

Is it possible to both support Ukraine and disagree with the persecution of journalists? 

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because, ultimately, it would depend on the reason of persecution. In this case, it's because she was peddling harmful propaganda that was likely contributing to more people getting killed.

Just so we're clear: she was not reporting in an unbiased, completely objective way... she was reporting in a way such that it only supported one side, which was Russia. If I recall correctly some of the stuff she was trying to argue about had to do with the fact that there were no atrocities actually being committed by Russia, and it was Ukraine who was committing the atrocities. We know that Russia has been committing atrocities. Look at Bucha. She tried to use pictures that we know for a fact were pictures of casualties caused by Russia in Ukraine, but she re-framed it to fit the de-Nazifying narrative that Putin is pushing.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[el midgetron]

4 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

So, narratives are:

1) Ukraine army nearing Moscow

2) russia army mearing Kiiv

Which one unbiased?

No one is claiming the Ukrainian army is nearing Moscow. That’s not a “bias”, it’s not even a possibility, 

Ukrainian artillery hitting civilians isn’t the same thing as claiming Ukraine is going to take Moscow.