Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Helen of Annoy]

 

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

The amount the USA has given is not nearly fair to what other countries have given.   If all was fair I would have no issues but it is not even close in any way we look at it.    

Do you have a comparison chart between what the US has provided and what Europe as a whole has? I believe you, I'm just curious because I don't know the number difference myself.

I do think it's better to continue to support Ukriane even if Europe is not doing it as much financially as we are. Because at the end of the day Ukraine needs help and if the US needs to do it alone than so be it. 

Inaction is an action. And if we isolate ourselves from being involved in stuff than I think it ultimately will lead to a world that looks less democratic. 

I think if we let Russia get away with this than Taiwan would be next as well as some smaller NATO allies near Russia. And that would kick off a whole heap of problems.

If WW3 is what people fear than being strong with support now is what will prevent that.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by spartan max2

[Helen of Annoy]

 

[Setton]

7 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Since then, the current Ukrainian President has come to power but inherited that past. 

By standing against those parties. If you want to be honest about it.

Wait, what am I saying...

Quote

7 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Ukraine can defend its self into a smoldering radioactive creator for all I care. I oppose all US military support for this stupid war. **** Russia **** Ukraine & most of all **** supporting this war. 

 

"First they came for..."

You want to be a coward until war lands on your doorstep, go ahead. But you won't drag the rest of us in with you.

From a European point of view, it's nice to see the US helping their allies on time for a change.

[el midgetron]

13 minutes ago, Setton said:

“First they came for..."

You want to be a coward until war lands on your doorstep, go ahead. But you won't drag the rest of us in with you.

From a European point of view, it's nice to see the US helping their allies on time for a change.

Of ffs, one minute Russia is the second biggest military in Ukraine and the next they are a threat to the whole world. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by el midgetron

[+Nuclear Wessel]

28 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Zelensky will refuse to negotiate as long as the gravy-trian keeps rolling in. Anyone who dissents is labeled a traitor and killed.

 

'We're hunting them down and shooting them like pigs': How the Ukrainians are taking brutal revenge on the collaborators who've betrayed their neighbours - and country - to the Russians

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11284819/How-Ukrainian-intelligence-chiefs-tracking-collaborators-worked-Russians.html

….wonder where the mass grave are those people are being buried in?

Assuming you mean military aid when you say "gravy train", you realize then that at that point it wouldn't be "negotiation" so much as "forced surrender", as they'd have no means to protect themselves?

Every now and then you pop up and insist on showing you haven't the slightest clue on the matters that you're speaking about. 

[Setton]

2 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Of ffs, one minute Russia is the second biggest military in Ukraine and the next they are a threat to the whole world. 

Let's say it slowly for midge again.

Because.

We.

Helped.

Them.

Every time we've just let Russia walk into another country, they go on to invade somewhere else. It wouldn't be next year, maybe not even this century but eventually they'd work their way to you. And by that point they'd be drawing on far more resources than you.

[Grey Area]

36 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Zelensky will refuse to negotiate as long as the gravy-trian keeps rolling in. Anyone who dissents is labeled a traitor and killed.

 

'We're hunting them down and shooting them like pigs': How the Ukrainians are taking brutal revenge on the collaborators who've betrayed their neighbours - and country - to the Russians

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11284819/How-Ukrainian-intelligence-chiefs-tracking-collaborators-worked-Russians.html

….wonder where the mass grave are those people are being buried in?

If you recall, in the lead up to the war many countries, as well as Ukraine appealed diplomatically to Putin.  However Putin insisted the West was being hysterical and his troops were just training.  Then he invaded.

After this many countries, as well as Ukraine attempted to get Putin to come to the negotiating table, in his hubris, Putin refused every request, he thought he was invulnerable.

Now, Putin is disgraced, and in retreat, why should Ukraine come to the table for anything other than complete withdrawal?

Why would anyone trust the words of Putin?  Any negotiated peace would be likely broken anyway.

[DarkHunter]

33 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Zelensky will refuse to negotiate as long as the gravy-trian keeps rolling in. Anyone who dissents is labeled a traitor and killed.

 

'We're hunting them down and shooting them like pigs': How the Ukrainians are taking brutal revenge on the collaborators who've betrayed their neighbours - and country - to the Russians

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11284819/How-Ukrainian-intelligence-chiefs-tracking-collaborators-worked-Russians.html

….wonder where the mass grave are those people are being buried in?

Do you actually read the links or just try to find a quick sentence that you think will support your argument.

Even then are you really trying to argue that partisan forces targeting active collaborators are comparable to the multiple massacres that the Russian military has committed.  The partisans have successfully assassinated 29 people and wounded a further 13 and these are people who are aiding in the Russian military in either civil administration or running police/security operations.  Meanwhile when Bucha was liberated 458 bodies have been dug from mass graves with 419 showing clear signs of torture.  

Definitely comparable between partisans targeting collaborators and the massacres the Russian military has done.

[el midgetron]

14 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Assuming you mean military aid when you say "gravy train", you realize then that at that point it wouldn't be "negotiation" so much as "forced surrender", as they'd have no means to protect themselves?

If they “wished” to keep defending their country they could. They could maybe buy back some of the military equipment they’ve sold to the black market, 

With the billions of dollars pouring in to bolster their defenses, Abramson said corruption within the Ukrainian government is a concern.

In July, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy abruptly fired two top officials after an investigation found employees in their departments allegedly colluding with the Russians.

Abramson said there is a concern for weapons being trafficked, but the illegal flow of weapons is hard to prove.

“It’s inevitable that some of these weapons will end up in the wrong hands,” he said. “The scale is what’s hard to know right now. And that’s why there’s this big push for oversight and monitoring now so that we can get a handle on that.”

https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/russia-at-war/ukraine-weapons-black-market/

[spartan max2]

7 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

If they “wished” to keep defending their country they could. They could maybe buy back some of the military equipment they’ve sold to the black market, 

With the billions of dollars pouring in to bolster their defenses, Abramson said corruption within the Ukrainian government is a concern.

In July, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy abruptly fired two top officials after an investigation found employees in their departments allegedly colluding with the Russians.

Abramson said there is a concern for weapons being trafficked, but the illegal flow of weapons is hard to prove.

“It’s inevitable that some of these weapons will end up in the wrong hands,” he said. “The scale is what’s hard to know right now. And that’s why there’s this big push for oversight and monitoring now so that we can get a handle on that.”

https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/russia-at-war/ukraine-weapons-black-market/

Props on creating a strawman I haven't seen before and using a news source I have never even heard of 

Edited October 7, 2022 by spartan max2

[+Nuclear Wessel]

6 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

If they “wished” to keep defending their country they could. They could maybe buy back some of the military equipment they’ve sold to the black market, 

With the billions of dollars pouring in to bolster their defenses, Abramson said corruption within the Ukrainian government is a concern.

In July, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy abruptly fired two top officials after an investigation found employees in their departments allegedly colluding with the Russians.

Abramson said there is a concern for weapons being trafficked, but the illegal flow of weapons is hard to prove.

“It’s inevitable that some of these weapons will end up in the wrong hands,” he said. “The scale is what’s hard to know right now. And that’s why there’s this big push for oversight and monitoring now so that we can get a handle on that.”

https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/russia-at-war/ukraine-weapons-black-market/

It is absolutely impossible to have any kind of a sensible conversation with you due to the fact that you're making tangental connections that make no sense at all. Maybe it makes more sense in your head, but on paper, it doesn't make sense at all.

[DarkHunter]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

The amount the USA has given is not nearly fair to what other countries have given.   If all was fair I would have no issues but it is not even close in any way we look at it.    

That statement is only true in certain context.  In terms of raw monetary value or raw numbers of items sent then America has sent the most with publically available information.

In terms of percentages the Baltic states have given between 30% and 50% of their military equipment to Ukraine while America is around 2% or less.  

In terms of specific equipment that depends on what specific equipment one is talking about.  For example, in terms of artillery than America has given the vast majority of artillery pieces but in terms of tanks its Poland that has given Ukraine the vast majority of its gifted tanks.  

Ammunition is tricky cause a lot of the eastern European countries dont like to publically announce how much military aid they have given to Ukraine, going as far to send military aid through third party countries to make it harder to determine where the air came from while America is rather open with saying exactly how many artillery shells and bullets have been sent.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Hankenhunter]

Russia must indeed be getting desperate judging by the strident disinformation shills. They aren't even trying to be reasonable anymore. They're down to russia good, Ukraine bad. It must be a bitter pill to swallow seeing all your hard work go for naught. 

[Occult1]

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Why not though? The money has seemed pretty effective so far.

Bulking Putin's seems like a long term benefit to the US and NATO

If it's "effective" to start WW3, then it's clearly not worth it. It's wishful thinking to believe that Russia will pull out of Ukraine simply because the U.S/NATO wants them to.

[Occult1]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

The amount the USA has given is not nearly fair to what other countries have given.   If all was fair I would have no issues but it is not even close in any way we look at it.    

It's not just the money, it's the intelligence and use of satellites provided to Ukraine. The HIMARS wouldn't be very effective without satellite navigation. How can we then claim that we are not directly involved in the war?

Edited October 7, 2022 by Occult1

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Occult1 said:

It's not just the money, it's intelligence and use of satellites that they are providing to Ukraine. The HIMARS wouldn't be very effective without satellite navigation. How can we then claim we are not involved in the war?

Nobody said we weren’t involved in the war. Obviously provision of arms and intelligence is involvement. Doesn’t make “us” the fighters, though. 

[spartan max2]

6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

If it's "effective" to start WW3, then it's clearly not worth it. It's wishful thinking to believe that Russia will pull out of Ukraine simply because the U.S/NATO wants them to.

Not supporting Ukraine is more likely to start WW3. Russia would continue trying to take the post Soviet states and would attack one of the small NATO nations.

That and China would be emboldened to invade Taiwan.

The rest of the stuff you said is just dumb, honestly.

Edited October 7, 2022 by spartan max2

[jmccr8]

51 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Of ffs, one minute Russia is the second biggest military in Ukraine and the next they are a threat to the whole world. 

Hi El

Well to be fair Russia does have a nut bar with nukes and yes his military and command structure is crap

[spartan max2]

4 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's not just the money, it's the intelligence and use of satellites provided to Ukraine. The HIMARS wouldn't be very effective without satellite navigation. How can we then claim that we are not directly involved in the war?

It's strawman central around here lol

[Occult1]

7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Not supporting Ukraine is more likely to start WW3. Russia would continue trying to take the post Soviet states and would attack one of the small NATO nations.

Do you have evidence of that? Even if that were true, there is nothing preventing Russia from opening a new front in the Baltics, whether they have success in Ukraine or not. They certainly have the capabilities. Seems more like an excuse to justify western interventionist policies.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Occult1

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Do you have evidence of that? Even if that were true, there is nothing preventing Russia from opening a new front in the Baltics, whether they have success in Ukraine or not. They certainly have the capabilities. Seems more like an excuse to justify interventionist policies.

Do I have evidence of something happening in the future? Lol.

Russia invaded Georgia. They said they would not.

Russia invaded Crimea. They said they would not. 

Russia invaded Ukraine. They said they would not.

Seems like a clear trend for anyone who is not blinded by stupidity. 

Finland and Sweden joined NATO. Ask yourself why. 

And Ukraine's success has stopped Russia from being able to open up other fronts because Russia is getting it's assed kicked in. With unrest increasing at home, with any luck, Russians will replace Putin with a leader who actually gives a **** about them 

Edited October 7, 2022 by spartan max2

[Occult1]

4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Do I have evidence of something happening in the future? Lol.

Russia invaded Georgia. They said they would not.

Russia invaded Crimea. They said they would not. 

Russia invaded Ukraine. They said they would not.

Seems like a clear trend for anyone who is not blinded by stupidity. 

Finland and Sweden joined NATO. Ask yourself why. 

And Ukraine's success has stopped Russia from being able to open up other fronts because Russia is getting it's assed kicked in. With unrest increasing at home, with any luck, Russians will replace Putin with a leader who actually gives a **** about them 

Were any of those countries part of NATO? Nope. So how is the US/NATO becoming directly involved in Ukraine less likely to start WW3? You have not provided a coherent explanation. Everything points to the contrary.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Occult1

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Were any of those countries part of NATO? Nope. So how is the US/NATO becoming directly involved in Ukraine less likely to start WW3? You have not provided a coherent explanation. Everything points to the contrary.

So you admit that Ukraine should have joined NATO to protect themselves from being invaded ? 

[Duke Wellington]

Nuclear convey spotted heading to Ukraine!!!

The UK Government claims they are on the way to a nuclear exercise, but I`m not so sure.