Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 22, 2022 Author #20026 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: As if Russia would yield to the authority of the International Criminal Court. Surrendering combatants are shot all the time. You can't train young people to kill other human beings and expect their moral compass to stay true and unscathed, all the time. For each incident reported in every major conflict of this and the last century, there are a dozen unreported ones.Sometimes you can't take prisoners, sometimes you're ordered not to take prisoners and sometimes you don't give damn and yes, I definitely know things, in the last 25 years alone, you don't know jack about. What, My lai? I am familiar with events that occurred during the Vietnam War, yet beyond that I have no knowledge of US Soldiers executing prisoners. Like I said I was on Active Duty in the US Army from 1978 until 2003 and I have no knowledge of the information your providing. Here are some additional comments you made above that I quoted: : “”You can't train young people to kill other human beings and expect their moral compass to stay true and unscathed “” I completely disagree with you, it is possible to train soldiers to kill and maintain the proper moral behavior on the battle fields. Three things will make all the difference in the world concerning the performance of US Military Personnel fighting in any conflict. 1. Leading by example, as a squad leader and platoon sergeant must lead by example nothing is as important or more important than how well the soldiers can perform the training at hand. Because a person’s soldiers are always watching their leaders and if an NCO doesn’t lead by the example he expects his soldier to follow then that leader will have will have soldiers that will not respect leader or, trust and follow that leader under any circumstances. 2. Training , training, along with more training and this training along with the leadership abilities above will give one’s soldier the technically, tactfully, and the moral responsibilities all soldiers need. 3. Soldiers must be taught the importance of the Rules of Engagement, ( ROE ) and the moral responsibilities that each soldier is responsible for implementing and following those rules. The International criminal Court is not responsible for arresting any group or individual. The ICC Issues an arrest warrant and then it becomes the responsibility of the one of 132 signatories countries to arrest the individuals or groups. As far as the rest of your comments, i am unable to agree in any way with your comments and I am confused by two things. 1. You have told me personally that you never served in the Military, and yet your able to say without about a doubt the following: a. That sometimes US Soldiers are ordered to not take prisoners. b. That sometimes it’s impossible to take prisoners c. Last sometimes you just don’t care. Well I have never been in any of the situations you outlined above, I also have never given anyone instructions to take no prisoners, so I have no idea where your information is coming from, especially since you have never served in the military. The orders you outlined above are illegal orders and no soldier is obligated to follow those orders. As far as me not knowing Jack about executing prisoners of war your correct and frankly as Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant, and as a Master sergeant I am very very very proud to say that none of my soldiers were ever trained do that that, and that neither was I. Last, no branches of the US Military are trained to execute prisoners of war and based upon my knowledge this is not in anyway normal procedures or a standard practice in the US Military. Oh and by the way, there was no need for you to become angry, my comments were not disrespectful to you in anyway. So I do not understand you frustration at all. So have great day! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted November 22, 2022 #20027 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: I am familiar with events that occurred during the Vietnam War, yet beyond that I have no knowledge of US Soldiers executing prisoners. Like I said I was on Active Duty in the US Army from 1978 until 2003 and I have no knowledge of the information your providing. Here are some additional comments you made above that I quoted: : “”You can't train young people to kill other human beings and expect their moral compass to stay true and unscathed “” I completely disagree with you, it is possible to train soldiers to kill and maintain the proper moral behavior on the battle fields. Three things will make all the difference in the world concerning the performance of US Military Personnel fighting in any conflict. 1. Leading by example, as a squad leader and platoon sergeant must lead by example nothing is as important or more important than how well the soldiers can perform the training at hand. Because a person’s soldiers are always watching their leaders and if an NCO doesn’t lead by the example he expects his soldier to follow then that leader will have will have soldiers that will not respect leader or, trust and follow that leader under any circumstances. 2. Training , training, along with more training and this training along with the leadership abilities above will give one’s soldier the technically, tactfully, and the moral responsibilities all soldiers need. 3. Soldiers must be taught the importance of the Rules of Engagement, ( ROE ) and the moral responsibilities that each soldier is responsible for implementing and following those rules. The International criminal Court is not responsible for arresting any group or individual. The ICC Issues an arrest warrant and then it becomes the responsibility of the one of 132 signatories countries to arrest the individuals or groups. As far as the rest of your comments, i am unable to agree in any way with your comments and I am confused by two things. 1. You have told me personally that you never served in the Military, and yet your able to say without about a doubt the following: a. That sometimes US Soldiers are ordered to not take prisoners. b. That sometimes it’s impossible to take prisoners c. Last sometimes you just don’t care. Well I have never been in any of the situations you outlined above, I also have never given anyone instructions to take no prisoners, so I have no idea where your information is coming from, especially since you have never served in the military. The orders you outlined above are illegal orders and no soldier is obligated to follow those orders. As far as me not knowing Jack about executing prisoners of war your correct and frankly as Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant, and as a Master sergeant I am very very very proud to say that none of my soldiers were ever trained do that that, and that neither was I. Last, no branches of the US Military are trained to execute prisoners of war and based upon my knowledge this is not in anyway normal procedures or a standard practice in the US Military. Oh and by the way, there was no need for you to become angry, my comments were not disrespectful to you in anyway. So I do not understand you frustration at all. So have great day! I get accused of being angry, a lot. Never judge a person's temperament by the cold black and white on the screen, or as some kind of personal assault. Most "incidents" are spontaneous actions by a few, usually only one combatant. There are several generations of military service in my extended family and my knowledge is based on firsthand oral and written accounts. Paratroopers landing before D-day were ordered in the field to not take prisoners. Prisoners or surrendering combatants were sometimes killed, as well. German soldiers, sometimes mere boys, would lay in ambush for approaching Allied columns during the latter stages of the invasion of the Fatherland, fire their Panzerfaust, take out tank and crew, then jump to their feet, immediately, hands up, to surrender. Often their surrender was not accepted. In the 'Nam, prisoners that could not be successfully extricated were often killed. In the heat of battle, or in the case of grim expediency, s#&t happens, randomly without any grand plan of ignoring the rules of war. I would expect a veteran who has seen combat to understand these things. Edited November 22, 2022 by Hammerclaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 22, 2022 Author #20028 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said: I get accused of being angry, a lot. Never judge a person's temperament by the cold black and white on the screen, or as some kind of personal assault. Most "incidents" are spontaneous actions by a few, usually only one combatant. There are several generations of military service in my extended family and my knowledge bis based on firsthand oral and written accounts. Paratroopers landing before D-day were ordered in the field to not take prisoners. Prisoners or surrendering combatants were sometimes killed, as well. German soldiers, sometimes mere boys, would lay in ambush for approaching Allied columns during the latter stages of the invasion of the Fatherland, fire their Panzerfaust, take out tank and crew, then jump to their feet, immediately, hands up, to surrender. Often their surrender was not accepted. In the 'Nam, prisoners that could not be successfully extricated were often killed. In the heat of battle, or in the case of grim expediency, s#&t happens, randomly without any grand plan of ignoring the rules of war. I would expect a veteran who has seen combat to understand these things. Ok that is a much better explanation, and yet it’s all historical incidents. However, in the United States Military today the issue of killing prisoners of war is taken very seriously. Matter of fact when I retired, unit trained on this issue was required quarterly and it was normally part of other required training. But like I said I have never heard of it occurring or even spoken about in daily conversations. From 1990 until 2003 myself and my soldiers were deployed 3 times, Operation Desert Storm, The Battle of Mogadishu, and the Invasion of Afghanistan. Like I said never heard of any situations that occurred while I was still on active duty. To be honest even if some immoral individual gave the orders to execute their prisoners I doubt seriously that the soldiers would carry out those orders. Since the proper procedures for handling prisoner of wars became mandatory training soldiers are aware that executing prisoners will get the individual charged with first degree murder. So, I not saying it never occurs today, but if it does it certainly isn’t spoken about in daily conversation. Last I am very aware of what occurred in WWII, Korean War and Vietnam yet I have no clue why it was not prosecuted openly. I think the reason could be that it was such a national embarrassment that it was covered up. Because the case that to knowledge was Nationally published was My Lia, and even in that situation that LT. Never really served anytime. Sorry about the confusion about your temperament thanks for clearing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz_Light_Year Posted November 22, 2022 #20029 Share Posted November 22, 2022 After the Malmedy incident in the Battle of the Bulge there were several field retributions by American soldiers against German POW's. One was in Chenogne Belgium where about ~80 German POW's were machine gunned. Yeah there was a coverup as Patton wrote about it in his diary and Eisenhower wanted an investigation but the war was over and it was let go. What is puzzling is one of the eye witnesses said that he had no knowledge of Malmedy at the time. Another incident was the execution of about 50 SS at Dachau. I never researched this one but I can definitely understand the rage that would've led to it happening. I'm a Vietnam Era veteran but I was never in country and so all I have on that conflict is water cooler stories from veterans themselves. One veteran had dozens of black and white photos he took of an incident and the photos were of dead women, old people and children. He didn't divulge where this happened or who was responsible but after looking at about half a dozen I handed the pictures back to him. The pictures weren't for the faint of heart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 22, 2022 #20030 Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: As if Russia would yield to the authority of the International Criminal Court. Surrendering combatants are shot all the time. You can't train young people to kill other human beings and expect their moral compass to stay true and unscathed, all the time. For each incident reported in every major conflict of this and the last century, there are a dozen unreported ones. Sometimes you can't take prisoners, sometimes you're ordered not to take prisoners and sometimes you don't give damn and yes, I definitely know things, in the last 25 years alone, you don't know jack about. What, My lai? Russia is definitely the more evil of the 2. No question. That doesn't excuse the Ukraine solders, if they did commit any war crimes. We don't know at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted November 22, 2022 #20031 Share Posted November 22, 2022 9 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: US ‘tracking’ clip may show Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian troops The United States is monitoring allegations that Ukrainian soldiers allegedly executed Russian troops in a video posted on social media that has both sides accusing the other of war crimes. Four videos posted on social media last week appear to show the killing of 11 Russian soldiers as Ukrainian forces recaptured the village of Makiivka in the Luhansk region in mid-November, according to the New York Times. There are gaps missing in the videos, and it’s unclear why, though the New York Times used other videos to understand what occurred. In one of the videos, a Ukrainian soldier is filming, and he quickly flashes the camera to himself and another soldier lying on his stomach pointing a rifle, while a third armed soldier can be seen walking backward with his rifle pointed at a destroyed outhouse where Russian soldiers appeared to be hiding. Gunfire can be heard, but it’s unclear who is firing at whom. The clip cuts, and in the same area where the soldier backtracked, six Russian soldiers are laying on their stomachs, while four more come out with their hands up. We are obviously tracking that quite closely. It’s really important to emphasize that the laws of war apply to all parties equally, both the aggressor state and the defender state, and this is in equal measure,” Beth Van Schaack, U.S. ambassador-at-large for global criminal justice, told reporters on Monday. “But when it comes to the war in Ukraine, that’s really where the equivalency ends. When we’re looking at the sheer scale of criminality exhibited by Russian forces, it’s enormous compared to the allegations that we have seen against Ukrainian forces.” https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-tracking-clip-may-show-ukrainian-soldiers-executing-russian-troops/ar-AA14o7i9?cvid=ab1b48fff8fd4748b181f76bac0c4195 A spokesp I'm near certain I saw the extended video clip of the incident they are talking about which shows 10 Russian soldiers having surrendered then when the 11th Russian soldier comes out of the building he immediately starts firing on the Ukranian soldiers. The Russian soldiers were clearly doing an act of perfidy. A lot of the speculation I heard is that when the 11th Russian soldier opened fire on the Ukranian soldier is that the Ukranian soldier manning the machine gun probably just did a quick burst at the 11th Russian soldier and the 10 that were already on the ground. From what other people were saying, which isnt verified as they were random people on the internet, it has become a common enough Russian tactic for a group of Russian soldiers to surrender then the last comes out firing and the previously surrendered soldiers pull out hidden pistols, grenades, or knives. If true it's another Russian war crime to add to the list. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 22, 2022 Author #20032 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, DarkHunter said: I'm near certain I saw the extended video clip of the incident they are talking about which shows 10 Russian soldiers having surrendered then when the 11th Russian soldier comes out of the building he immediately starts firing on the Ukranian soldiers. The Russian soldiers were clearly doing an act of perfidy. A lot of the speculation I heard is that when the 11th Russian soldier opened fire on the Ukranian soldier is that the Ukranian soldier manning the machine gun probably just did a quick burst at the 11th Russian soldier and the 10 that were already on the ground. From what other people were saying, which isnt verified as they were random people on the internet, it has become a common enough Russian tactic for a group of Russian soldiers to surrender then the last comes out firing and the previously surrendered soldiers pull out hidden pistols, grenades, or knives. If true it's another Russian war crime to add to the list. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me at all, I hope we get to point where the rumors are dispelled. Thanks for the updated information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20033 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Ukraine grid operator: damage from Russian attacks 'colossal' KYIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Ukraine's national power grid operator said on Tuesday the damage dealt to Ukrainian power generating facilities by Russian missile attacks was "colossal" but dismissed the need to evacuate civilians. Volodymyr Kudrytskyi, chief executive officer of Ukrenergo, told a briefing that Ukrainians could face long power outages but that the grid operator wanted to help provide the conditions for people to remain in the country through winter. Practically no thermal or hydroelectric stations had been left unscathed by the Russian attacks, he said. "The scale of destruction is colossal," Kudrytskyi said. "In Ukraine there is a power generation deficit. We cannot generate as much energy as consumers can use." https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-grid-operator-damage-russian-attacks-colossal-2022-11-22/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20034 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Ukraine under international pressure to investigate alleged executions of Russian soldiers ''The Armed Forces of Ukraine High Command has been compromised by allegations of a war crime carried out by its troops. Four videos filmed by Ukrainian units and subsequently distributed by pro-Kremlin media outlets appear to show the possible assassination of 10 Russian soldiers on the Luhansk front. Ukraine’s Commissioner for Human Rights Dmytro Lubinets stated his belief last weekend that the footage was staged by Moscow, but the United Nations Human Rights Office (OHCHR) has confirmed that it will investigate the incident and has called upon the authorities in Kyiv to do the same.'' https://english.elpais.com/international/2022-11-22/ukraine-under-international-pressure-to-investigate-alleged-executions-of-russian-soldiers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted November 22, 2022 #20035 Share Posted November 22, 2022 On 11/20/2022 at 12:51 PM, Occult1 said: The strong military alliance between Russia and Iran (and even China to some extent) makes it impractical for the U.S. and Israel to wage war on Iran without impunity. It seems more productive for Israel to maintain good relation with Russia, retain a freedom of movement over Syria's skies and therefore keep Iran in check. The Iranian regime byitself is far right islamistic and corrupt. The priorty of the Iranian people is to get rid of this regime in order to live a life with more freedom. If Israel attacks now, or the USA, while there is an uprising, it will have a countereffect. Iranians will pull again together and the regime would stay. Also, once the regime of the ayatollahs has fallen, it will be only up to the Iranians with whom they will have good relationships, not up to Israel or USA or Russia. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20036 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: Ukraine under international pressure to investigate alleged executions of Russian soldiers ''The Armed Forces of Ukraine High Command has been compromised by allegations of a war crime carried out by its troops. Four videos filmed by Ukrainian units and subsequently distributed by pro-Kremlin media outlets appear to show the possible assassination of 10 Russian soldiers on the Luhansk front. Ukraine’s Commissioner for Human Rights Dmytro Lubinets stated his belief last weekend that the footage was staged by Moscow, but the United Nations Human Rights Office (OHCHR) has confirmed that it will investigate the incident and has called upon the authorities in Kyiv to do the same.'' https://english.elpais.com/international/2022-11-22/ukraine-under-international-pressure-to-investigate-alleged-executions-of-russian-soldiers.html Hi Occult You make a lot of noise about a few Russia soldiers being killed and yet the Russians have murdered countless numbers of civilians in the Ukraine. Were the Russian soldiers killed guilt free of killing non-combatants? We don’t know and if they were employing deception in their surrender in order to get an advantage then I have no problem with them being killed in action. The war crimes of Russia far exceed the actions of the Ukraine military who are fighting for their country. Edited November 22, 2022 by jmccr8 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20037 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: Ukraine grid operator: damage from Russian attacks 'colossal' KYIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Ukraine's national power grid operator said on Tuesday the damage dealt to Ukrainian power generating facilities by Russian missile attacks was "colossal" but dismissed the need to evacuate civilians. Volodymyr Kudrytskyi, chief executive officer of Ukrenergo, told a briefing that Ukrainians could face long power outages but that the grid operator wanted to help provide the conditions for people to remain in the country through winter. Practically no thermal or hydroelectric stations had been left unscathed by the Russian attacks, he said. "The scale of destruction is colossal," Kudrytskyi said. "In Ukraine there is a power generation deficit. We cannot generate as much energy as consumers can use." https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-grid-operator-damage-russian-attacks-colossal-2022-11-22/ Hi Occult How would you feel about Russia’s power grids being blown up along with rail systems and military sites while not attacking civilian targets just to level out the conditions for people to live in? It’s fair isn’t it you blow up my power grid and I blow up yours and still hold the moral high ground of not indiscriminately murdering your Russian civilians. To me fair is fair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted November 22, 2022 #20038 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Occult1 said: I am willing to shift my views based on the facts on the ground. The demilitarization/neutralization of Ukraine, the complete 'liberation' of Donbas, establishing a 'buffer zone' in the south (Zaporizhia, Kherson) of Pro-Russian territories probably still are Russia's main objectives. Yes, but that's not what you said - you said "their main objective is", or "the main objective is", rather than "one of their main objective" or a "a main objective". You indicate singular rather than plural in each one of those. You've also demonstrated contradictory info. If their main objective is to reinforce Donbas then their main objective can't also be to demilitarize/neutralize Ukraine. That would be one main objective among n main objectives, not just one, which is what has been implied in your posts. Which is essentially what my entire post was about. Can you also tell me what was so confusing about my post? I'm not sure why you're 1 person out of 7 that was confused by my post. That seems to be a problem with your understanding rather than the content of the post. I'm also asking because there's been a pattern that I've noticed where you respond with "confused" emojis. Edited November 22, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20039 Share Posted November 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: I'm also asking because there's been a pattern that I've noticed where you respond with "confused" emojis Hi Nuke He doesn’t understand why everyone else has no sympathy for Russia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted November 22, 2022 #20040 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: Ok that is a much better explanation, and yet it’s all historical incidents. However, in the United States Military today the issue of killing prisoners of war is taken very seriously. Matter of fact when I retired, unit trained on this issue was required quarterly and it was normally part of other required training. But like I said I have never heard of it occurring or even spoken about in daily conversations. From 1990 until 2003 myself and my soldiers were deployed 3 times, Operation Desert Storm, The Battle of Mogadishu, and the Invasion of Afghanistan. Like I said never heard of any situations that occurred while I was still on active duty. To be honest even if some immoral individual gave the orders to execute their prisoners I doubt seriously that the soldiers would carry out those orders. Since the proper procedures for handling prisoner of wars became mandatory training soldiers are aware that executing prisoners will get the individual charged with first degree murder. So, I not saying it never occurs today, but if it does it certainly isn’t spoken about in daily conversation. Last I am very aware of what occurred in WWII, Korean War and Vietnam yet I have no clue why it was not prosecuted openly. I think the reason could be that it was such a national embarrassment that it was covered up. Because the case that to knowledge was Nationally published was My Lia, and even in that situation that LT. Never really served anytime. Sorry about the confusion about your temperament thanks for clearing it. War isn't a game and most military personnel are reluctant to hold men accountable for actions under the duress of combat. Moving forward in skirmish line, the last thing you want is enemy combatants in your rear, surrendering or not. In the heat of battle the individual soldier takes actions technically in violation of both his conscience and the rules of engagement. The men on his left and right are counting on him. He doesn't have time for a moral debate. That's why most technical violations aren't reported; they are either unseen or understood. My cousins Joy and Kevin were deployed to Iraq during the Second Gulf War, US Army. Now this doesn't mean there aren't deliberate and premeditated crimes committed that shouldn't be investigated and punished. Edited November 22, 2022 by Hammerclaw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted November 22, 2022 #20041 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) Found a video right before the supposed execution of the Russian soldiers that doesnt also include the dead bodies after. Seeing the Russian soldier start to fire his weapon isnt easy and requires essentially going frame by frame, in that thread there are pics of the Russian soldier firing his weapon. To make it easier to see there is this picture. It's not great but the smoke from him shooting his gun can clearly be seen. Edited November 22, 2022 by DarkHunter 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted November 22, 2022 #20042 Share Posted November 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, DarkHunter said: Found a video right before the supposed execution of the Russian soldiers that doesnt also include the dead bodies after. Seeing the Russian soldier start to fire his weapon isnt easy and requires essentially going frame by frame, in that thread there are pics of the Russian soldier firing his weapon. To make it easier to see there is this picture. It's not great but the smoke from him shooting his gun can clearly be seen. If they were all serious about surrender they would have told the UA troops that their guy was hiding. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted November 22, 2022 #20043 Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: If they were all serious about surrender they would have told the UA troops that their guy was hiding. It's possible the other soldiers didnt know the last soldier was planning on doing perfidy but that is extremely unlikely. There have been other reports of the Russian soldiers feigning surrender to try and ambush Ukranian soldiers. Regardless what was known the actions of that one Russian soldier resulted in all of them being killed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20044 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) Is Germany changing tack on Ukraine? ''Since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Germany has often been criticised, especially from European Union members in Eastern Europe, for being too cautious. They have berated the German government particularly for dragging its feet on supplying arms. To be fair, Berlin has sent some weapons, including self-propelled howitzers and multiple rocket launchers, which have proven their worth in fighting against Russian forces. And the German government has been quite forthcoming on sanctions against Russia. It halted the lucrative Nord Stream 2 pipeline project, supplying Russian gas to the country, even before the Russian invasion started. Yet now there are some signs that German society is growing tired of the Ukraine war. A survey conducted in October suggests that 40 percent of Germans fully or partially believe that NATO provoked Russia into invading Ukraine. That number increases to a staggering 59 percent in provinces that were once part of communist East Germany.'' https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/11/22/is-germany-changing-tack-on-ukraine War fatigue makes people question the misguided belief by some NATO countries that the 2nd most powerful military in the world can be ''defeated' in Ukraine. Edited November 22, 2022 by Occult1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiff Posted November 22, 2022 #20045 Share Posted November 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Occult1 said: Common sense and unbelievable corruption in russia makes people realise that the 2nd most powerful military in the world can, and will be ''defeated' in Ukraine. There. Fixed it for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20046 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) In Kherson city, sympathies for Russia complicate reintegration into Ukraine https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA Seems even the Western mass media now acknowledge that their was a significant amount of support for Russia in Kherson. Edited November 22, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted November 22, 2022 #20047 Share Posted November 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, Occult1 said: In Kherson city, sympathies for Russia complicate reintegration into Ukraine https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA Seems even the Western mass media now acknowledge that their was a significant amount of support for Russia in Kherson. There always is in a civil war. One third are on one side, the other third on the other side and the final third wanting the other two thirds to leave them the hell alone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted November 22, 2022 #20048 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, DarkHunter said: Found a video right before the supposed execution of the Russian soldiers that doesnt also include the dead bodies after. Seeing the Russian soldier start to fire his weapon isnt easy and requires essentially going frame by frame, in that thread there are pics of the Russian soldier firing his weapon. To make it easier to see there is this picture. It's not great but the smoke from him shooting his gun can clearly be seen. The problem being is that Russia has not signed the Geneva Convention , so it doesn't bother them about killing Soldiers or civilians . It's normal to them to kill anyone in range not wearing a Russian uniform . 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20049 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, spud the mackem said: The problem being is that Russia has not signed the Geneva Convention , so it doesn't bother them about killing Soldiers or civilians . It's normal to them to kill anyone in range not wearing a Russian uniform . Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol I. In 2019, Russia withdrew itself from Article 90 of protocol 1. But that does not mean they are not bound to the Geneva Conventions. Edited November 22, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20050 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, DarkHunter said: It's possible the other soldiers didnt know the last soldier was planning on doing perfidy but that is extremely unlikely. There have been other reports of the Russian soldiers feigning surrender to try and ambush Ukranian soldiers. Regardless what was known the actions of that one Russian soldier resulted in all of them being killed. Hi Dark There are also incidents of having Russian soldiers/officers ordered to shoot any Russians that try to flee/refuse to fight/surrender so maybe those 10 did surrender hoping the Ukrainians would kill the one Russian that would kill them for surrendering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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