jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20051 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol I. In 2019, Russia withdrew itself from Article 90 of protocol 1. But that does not mean they are not bound to the Geneva Conventions. Hi Occult In 1949 it was the USSR and not Russia so unless they signed the agreement then they would not be party to it. I didn’t bother to look it up first so don’t know whether they did or not but thought I would bring up the distinction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20052 Share Posted November 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Dark There are also incidents of having Russian soldiers/officers ordered to shoot any Russians that try to flee/refuse to fight/surrender so maybe those 10 did surrender hoping the Ukrainians would kill the one Russian that would kill them for surrendering. Seems likes you are jumping through hoops to try to justify Ukraine's war crimes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted November 22, 2022 #20053 Share Posted November 22, 2022 It is not in the best interest of Ukraine for Russian soldiers to fear surrendering. Revenge killings occur in most every conflict. Revenge executions occurred after the Battle of Kings Mountain during the Revolutionary War until they were stopped. Pro American army and militia were up against British Army soldiers recruited from loyalist colonials and loyalist colonial militia. The war in the South was a civil war, pitting neighbor against neighbor. Major Patrick Ferguson was the only British born officer present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted November 22, 2022 #20054 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Occult1 said: Seems likes you are jumping through hoops to try to justify Ukraine's war crimes. Hi Occult I wasn’t justifying anything as it has been reported by Russians that their orders were to shoot their own soldiers for not fighting. Months ago there were reports of soldiers being shot by officers and left on the battlefield that were picked up and given medical care. Do you know if the Russian that was shooting wasn’t killing his own men as well as firing at the Ukrainians. This is a discussion forum not a butt kissing contest. Edited November 22, 2022 by jmccr8 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted November 22, 2022 #20055 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Occult1 said: In Kherson city, sympathies for Russia complicate reintegration into Ukraine https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA Seems even the Western mass media now acknowledge that their was a significant amount of support for Russia in Kherson. An ambiguous "Thousands in the city held an ambivalence toward the Russians, or even an affinity"? Based on the overwhelming support Ukrainian soldiers have been receiving since liberating Kherson, I'm pretty sure the majority didn't actually support Russia, and felt like they were being forced to do so. Edited November 22, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 22, 2022 #20056 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Based on the overwhelming support Ukrainian soldiers have been receiving since liberating Kherson, I'm pretty sure the majority didn't actually support Russia, and felt like they were being forced to do so. Most of the population was evacuated with Russia on the left shore of the Dnipro river. The people that were supporting Ukraine chose to remain behind, so indeed Ukrainian forces received 'overwhelming' support from a small fraction of the population. These residents are now being evacuated themselves by Ukraine. So it seems each sides have 'liberated' their share of the population that supports them. Kherson is now pretty much unlivable. Edited November 22, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 22, 2022 #20057 Share Posted November 22, 2022 On 11/20/2022 at 1:22 AM, Cookie Monster said: Dwell on their current strategic position, how they will act to safeguard themselves, and establish themselves as a regional power. I would pay particular attention to the route oil tankers take out from the Middle East. ANYONE who doubts this outcome need look no further than how the world community handles Kim in NK. Frankly, the day Iran tests their nuke I hope Obama and all who helped him, get visited by the crushing horror of a justly deserved Karma... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted November 22, 2022 #20058 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 minute ago, and-then said: ANYONE who doubts this outcome need look no further than how the world community handles Kim in NK. Frankly, the day Iran tests their nuke I hope Obama and all who helped him, get visited by the crushing horror of a justly deserved Karma... The problem is to do Iran is a major war. It has a large army and a lot of mountainous terrain not suitable for tanks and air strikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted November 22, 2022 #20059 Share Posted November 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Occult1 said: The people that were supporting Ukraine chose to remain behind, Or chose to relocate from a war zone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted November 22, 2022 #20060 Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted November 22, 2022 #20061 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: The problem is to do Iran is a major war. It has a large army and a lot of mountainous terrain not suitable for tanks and air strikes. Apache and Super Cobra gunships would strongly disagree with that statement. Once again, nice try. Iran's army would get trampled. I repeat, trampled in a conventional ground war. They are essentially a discount version of the Iraqi military under Saddam. Not even listed as a "near peer" threat. have another cookie... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted November 22, 2022 #20062 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Looks like the Vladdy and his pals are going for broke and launching thermobarics against the Ukrainian army. "Russians Vaporize Ukrainian Army Positions" https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/watch/russians-vaporize-ukraine-army-positions-in-lyman-direction-prevent-counteroffensive-details/vi-AA14pb73?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=5871b7d7e2744f33a6d5a0c24f8c8ebc&category=foryou It's a significant shift in counter offensive strategy. I'm not sure what the Russian capabilities are for sustained attacks with these munitions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 22, 2022 #20063 Share Posted November 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: The problem is to do Iran is a major war. It has a large army and a lot of mountainous terrain not suitable for tanks and air strikes. I'm not advocating to go to war against them. I think things have gone too far for that now. Israel may yet pull the trigger but I suspect Obama's puppets will threaten Netanyahu that if he tries a strike, we will help Iran against Israel. The real irony is that Iran's coercive activities will harm the west FAR more than it harms Israel. Why? Because those mullahs KNOW that to use a nuke against the Jews in Israel will END their own lives, quite effectively. So... once they test and begin making their demands, I plan to laugh like a loon at any here who begin whining about the problems Iran is causing. FOOLS... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 23, 2022 Author #20064 Share Posted November 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Occult1 said: In Kherson city, sympathies for Russia complicate reintegration into Ukraine https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA Seems even the Western mass media now acknowledge that their was a significant amount of support for Russia in Kherson. I read the entire article and it certainly doesn’t allude to the title and it certainly doesn’t allude to the Pro-Russian your describing at all. The Russian leadership used Russian Rubble’s and goods to bribe residents to support the Regime in Kherson. Those who didn’t comply were sent to prison of murdered in torture Chambers. The article is very clear concerning the fate of Russian Collaborators, they ran like the traitorous scum bags they are. There was only a very small section ( a Paragraph) where a few citizens said that the promised Russian retirement was better than the Ukrainian pension, however with bribes and promises that the Russians made to captive people there is reason to believe that the Russians would have made good on the promises. So thanks for sharing this propaganda you are only serving the Russian Regime by posting it and also by adding your flare by misrepresenting the Washington Post Article! I recommend this article to everyone posting in this thread, it’s a great example of how someone can take a benign article and formulate propaganda from the information that was never designed to be portrayed in this manner, great job OCCULT1!! Witnesses recount detentions, torture, disappearances in occupied Kherson: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/14/kherson-disappearances-detentions-torture-occupation/ 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted November 23, 2022 #20065 Share Posted November 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: I read the entire article and it certainly doesn’t allude to the title and it certainly doesn’t allude to the Pro-Russian your describing at all. The Russian leadership used Russian Rubble’s and goods to bribe residents to support the Regime in Kherson. Those who didn’t comply were sent to prison of murdered in torture Chambers. The article is very clear concerning the fate of Russian Collaborators, they ran like the traitorous scum bags they are. There was only a very small section ( a Paragraph) where a few citizens said that the promised Russian retirement was better than the Ukrainian pension, however with bribes and promises that the Russians made to captive people there is reason to believe that the Russians would have made good on the promises. So thanks for sharing this propaganda you are only serving the Russian Regime by posting it and also by adding your flare by misrepresenting the Washington Post Article! I recommend this article to everyone posting in this thread, it’s a great example of how someone can take a benign article and formulate propaganda from the information that was never designed to be portrayed in this manner, great job OCCULT1!! Witnesses recount detentions, torture, disappearances in occupied Kherson: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/14/kherson-disappearances-detentions-torture-occupation/ Just about everything he has posted has been wrong or outright lies. Not surprised at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 23, 2022 #20066 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: I read the entire article and it certainly doesn’t allude to the title and it certainly doesn’t allude to the Pro-Russian your describing at all. The Russian leadership used Russian Rubble’s and goods to bribe residents to support the Regime in Kherson. Those who didn’t comply were sent to prison of murdered in torture Chambers. The article is very clear concerning the fate of Russian Collaborators, they ran like the traitorous scum bags they are. There was only a very small section ( a Paragraph) where a few citizens said that the promised Russian retirement was better than the Ukrainian pension, however with bribes and promises that the Russians made to captive people there is reason to believe that the Russians would have made good on the promises. So thanks for sharing this propaganda you are only serving the Russian Regime by posting it and also by adding your flare by misrepresenting the Washington Post Article! I recommend this article to everyone posting in this thread, it’s a great example of how someone can take a benign article and formulate propaganda from the information that was never designed to be portrayed in this manner, great job OCCULT1!! Witnesses recount detentions, torture, disappearances in occupied Kherson: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/14/kherson-disappearances-detentions-torture-occupation/ Never claimed it was a ''Pro-Russian'' article. In fact, the Washington Post and all of it's journalists are pretty much Pro-Ukraine. But it's the first time I see Western mainstream media admit (even if half-grudgingly) that there was a lot of support for Russia in Kherson. It's obviously reflected in the title of the article but also in this passage: ''Russia’s fleeting success in Kherson is a reflection not only of its brute force, but also of the connection many here felt to Moscow. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people in Kherson accepted Russian passports in the hope of receiving benefits. Many more accepted thick envelopes of Russian rubles on top of their pay as an inducement to stay in their jobs. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA *bold are mine Edited November 23, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 23, 2022 Author #20067 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Trelane said: Looks like the Vladdy and his pals are going for broke and launching thermobarics against the Ukrainian army. "Russians Vaporize Ukrainian Army Positions" https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/watch/russians-vaporize-ukraine-army-positions-in-lyman-direction-prevent-counteroffensive-details/vi-AA14pb73?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=5871b7d7e2744f33a6d5a0c24f8c8ebc&category=foryou It's a significant shift in counter offensive strategy. I'm not sure what the Russian capabilities are for sustained attacks with these munitions. This is very very sad to hear, therboberic munitions should not be used against civilian populations it one of the horrible ways to die. I don’t think that most of the forum members posting in this thread understand how these devices work. I am going to add some additional details on how these munitions kill. 1. What are thermobaric weapons? Are they “prohibited by the Geneva Conventions,” or otherwise regulated by international law? This post will apply the law of armed conflict (LOAC) to assess the most common criticisms leveled against these munitions, evaluating them as both means and methods of warfare. While the weapons themselves are not unlawful, their use to directly target civilians would violate the LOAC. 2. Thermobaric weapons are commonly known as fuel-air explosives, vacuum bombs, volumetric weapons, dual-stage explosives, or enhanced blast weapons.[i] These weapons are typically filled with aerosolized solid fuel or a highly combustible slurry. Once they reach their target an initiating explosion or “scatter charge” spreads a cloud of the fuel across the target, while milliseconds later a secondary combustion causes that cloud of fuel and atmospheric oxygen to detonate. The result is a massive fireball that produces an especially powerful blast wave, to include negative pressure (the vaunted vacuum effect) as the atmospheric oxygen is consumed by the explosion. This extraordinary pressure collapses buildings, ruptures organs, and negates many forms of cover including underground facilities. Thermobaric weapons have the potential to generate causalities that overwhelm military medical systems, to say nothing of their potential to inflict civilian harm. 3. Humanity, “defined as the principle that forbids the infliction of suffering, injury, or destruction unnecessary to accomplish a legitimate military purpose” is a cornerstone of LOAC. (para 2.3). This rule dates to the 1868 St. Petersburg Convention’s condemnation of “arms which uselessly aggravate the sufferings” of combatants, codified by the 1899 Hague Regulations prohibition on “arms, projectiles, or material of a nature to cause superfluous injury,” refined by the 1907 Hague Regulations prohibition on “arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering.” The 1993 CCW revises the language back to the 1899 prohibition on means of warfare “of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering,” and Article 35 of AP I echoes this of a nature framing https://lieber.westpoint.edu/are-thermobaric-weapons-lawful/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 23, 2022 Author #20068 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Occult1 said: Never claimed it was a ''Pro-Russian'' article. In fact, the Washington Post and all of it's journalists are pretty much Pro-Ukraine. But it's first time I see Western mainstream media admits (even if half-grudgingly) that there was a lot of support for Russia in Kherson. It's obviously reflected in the title of the article but also in this passage: ''Russia’s fleeting success in Kherson is a reflection not only of its brute force, but also of the connection many here felt to Moscow. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people in Kherson accepted Russian passports in the hope of receiving benefits. Many more accepted thick envelopes of Russian rubles on top of their pay as an inducement to stay in their jobs. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-kherson-city-sympathies-for-russia-complicate-reintegration-into-ukraine/ar-AA14oQDA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 23, 2022 #20069 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Ukraine says negotiated peace with Russia is not an option, dismissed U.S. deal with Kremlin that excluded Crimea ''A negotiated peace between Russia and Ukraine is impossible and the West should seek to accelerate, rather than avert, a Russian defeat, a top Ukrainian official said Tuesday. Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, dismissed suggestions that Ukraine should accept the loss of the Crimean Peninsula as the price of ending a war that has killed thousands of people and driven millions more from their homes. Crimea was illegally seized and annexed by Moscow in 2014; Russia launched a larger-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 of this year. The independent Ukrainska Pravda news website reported on Tuesday that the United States had proposed a peace deal to the Kremlin that would have Russia withdraw from all Ukrainian territory, except Crimea, which would hold a referendum on its future after seven years. In return, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization would agree not to integrate Ukraine as a member for the same seven-year period. The proposal was dismissed by the Kremlin.'' https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-ukraine-says-negotiated-peace-with-russia-is-not-an-option-dismissed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted November 23, 2022 Author #20070 Share Posted November 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, Trelane said: Just about everything he has posted has been wrong or outright lies. Not surprised at all. Yes I certainly agree with you, however I am still surprised and saddened that an American Citizen is so completely in support of along with being indoctrinated by Russia. Oh and by the way, about a page back a conversation was started where it was claimed that executing prisoners of war is common practice in the US Military, I tried to explain how inaccurate those comments were. If you could add your two cents on the subject to the individual who believes that, I would be great full, because we both know that isn’t in anyway the common conduct of US Military Personnel! On a brighter note I hope you and family are healthy my friend! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted November 23, 2022 #20071 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Trelane said: Just about everything he has posted has been wrong or outright lies. Not surprised at all. If there is a big Russian offensive in the winter (as seems likely) and they take some territories, will you admit I was right? A lot of people here claim that Russia is 'defeated', 'lost the war' etc. I just don't believe it. There are just so many indications that it is in fact not the case. Edited November 23, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted November 23, 2022 #20072 Share Posted November 23, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 1:28 AM, el midgetron said: The head of Russia's state-run atomic energy agency, Rosatom, warned that there's a risk of a nuclear accident at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant a day after several attacks on the Russian-occupied site, which Rosatom CEO Alexey Likhachev blamed on Ukraine. "We are informing the world community that the plant is at risk of a nuclear accident, and it is obvious that Kyiv considers a small nuclear incident acceptable," Russian state news agency Tass quoted Likhachev as telling reporters. "Large or small radioactivity, this will be a precedent that will forever change [the] course of history. Therefore, everything must be done so that no one has in their minds to encroach on the safety of the nuclear power plant," he said. Russia and Ukraine have repeatedly accused each other of shelling Europe's largest nuclear power plant and risking a massive nuclear accident. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/11/21/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html Actually Russia has today admitted that they did the shelling of the Zaporhizhzhia nuclear plant in order to force Zelensky to the negotiating table. A desperate ploy. I think NATO needs to draw a line in the sand over behavior like that. Damaging a nuclear plant is the equivalent of a dirty bomb at least. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted November 23, 2022 #20073 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Occult1 said: Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol I. In 2019, Russia withdrew itself from Article 90 of protocol 1. But that does not mean they are not bound to the Geneva Conventions. Do they actually follow those protocols anymore? It doesn't seem so. They need to be held accountable for their actions in the Hague. Edited November 23, 2022 by Alchopwn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted November 23, 2022 #20074 Share Posted November 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: Actually Russia has today admitted that they did the shelling of the Zaporhizhzhia nuclear plant in order to force Zelensky to the negotiating table. A desperate ploy. I think NATO needs to draw a line in the sand over behavior like that. Damaging a nuclear plant is the equivalent of a dirty bomb at least. Can you share a link? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted November 23, 2022 #20075 Share Posted November 23, 2022 15 hours ago, Myles said: Russia is definitely the more evil of the 2. No question. That doesn't excuse the Ukraine solders, if they did commit any war crimes. We don't know at this point. When the group of Russians surrendered one of them decided to turn the situation into an ambush and opened fire. The surrendering Russians were caught in the crossfire. Not a war crime. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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