Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[bmk1245]

13 minutes ago, joc said:

Hmmmm....he doesn't have one.  Sounds like you have  your mind made up on this. 

Proof is the amount of crapp every day official russian media spew at the russian population

Okay...the above tells me that you are completely clueless godnodog, which is not a slight at you.  I say you are clueless because you are missing a great deal of this little puzzle...it's called The Cold War.  The Russian Media has never, ever been anything but a Propaganda Machine.  

Like I said, for those who are clueless, which is basically everyone who didn't actually live through the entire Cold War period, through the collapse of the USSR, for those of you who didn't see Reagan tell Gorbochov to Tear down that wall! on real live TV.  If you didn't live through all of that godnodog, then you are clueless and you are taking your cues from the very same Russian Media...because...that is what our Media has become...a Russian Propaganda machine.  Some of us know because we watched it happen.  

Russia is the rattlesnake on the mountain begging the Mountain Man to take him down the mountain so he doesn't freeze.  And at the bottom of the mountain, the man opens his coat to let the rattlesnake loose and the rattlesnake immediately bites him on the neck.  As he is dying he tells the rattlesnake, but you promised you wouldn't bite me!  Well, the rattlesnake replied, I am a rattlesnake.

You don't know Russia is my point.  You think you do.  Some of us here actually do!  Nothing against you.  They call it programming for a reason. 

Despite all propaganda in USSR, where is USSR now? Mind you, USSR with Warsaw pact socialist countries was truely a beast... russkystan is just 1/4 of the former monster in human resources...

[godnodog]

24 minutes ago, joc said:

Hmmmm....he doesn't have one.  Sounds like you have  your mind made up on this. 

Proof is the amount of crapp every day official russian media spew at the russian population

Okay...the above tells me that you are completely clueless godnodog, which is not a slight at you.  I say you are clueless because you are missing a great deal of this little puzzle...it's called The Cold War.  The Russian Media has never, ever been anything but a Propaganda Machine.  

Like I said, for those who are clueless, which is basically everyone who didn't actually live through the entire Cold War period, through the collapse of the USSR, for those of you who didn't see Reagan tell Gorbochov to Tear down that wall! on real live TV.  If you didn't live through all of that godnodog, then you are clueless and you are taking your cues from the very same Russian Media...because...that is what our Media has become...a Russian Propaganda machine.  Some of us know because we watched it happen.  

Russia is the rattlesnake on the mountain begging the Mountain Man to take him down the mountain so he doesn't freeze.  And at the bottom of the mountain, the man opens his coat to let the rattlesnake loose and the rattlesnake immediately bites him on the neck.  As he is dying he tells the rattlesnake, but you promised you wouldn't bite me!  Well, the rattlesnake replied, I am a rattlesnake.

You don't know Russia is my point.  You think you do.  Some of us here actually do!  Nothing against you.  They call it programming for a reason. 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Write all the fancy texts you like, all the "intelectual" reasoning you like, reality speaks for itself. The mobilization done a few weeks ago by Russian was only to delay the full military defeat. They bet on disarray/division on western countries, then nuclear threats,  then on winter temperatures doom, then on US elections, and now rumours of a new mobilization of up to 3M russians.

If the new mobilization does come true its success comes only if they can actually arm them with decent weapons and training, plus provide actual competent logistics supply support, which so far has been the main issue for them, I might see they turn the war, which I really doubt, unless 2 out of 3 events happens:

- they get high quality modern weapons and ammunition from China (or others);

- west stops support them for whatever reason;

-russian actually tactically retreats to russia and from there bombs from far the ucrainians and later re-advances to Ukr, PLUS Ucr is not provided with longer range ammunition, as  it's been the case so far.

 

 

 

[+joc]

10 minutes ago, godnodog said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Write all the fancy texts you like, all the "intelectual" reasoning you like, reality speaks for itself. The mobilization done a few weeks ago by Russian was only to delay the full military defeat. They bet on disarray/division on western countries, then nuclear threats,  then on winter temperatures doom, then on US elections, and now rumours of a new mobilization of up to 3M russians.

If the new mobilization does come true its success comes only if they can actually arm them with decent weapons and training, plus provide actual competent logistics supply support, which so far has been the main issue for them, I might see they turn the war, which I really doubt, unless 2 out of 3 events happens:

- they get high quality modern weapons and ammunition from China (or others);

- west stops support them for whatever reason;

-russian actually tactically retreats to russia and from there bombs from far the ucrainians and later re-advances to Ukr, PLUS Ucr is not provided with longer range ammunition, as  it's been the case so far.

 

 

 

Never heard of spy vs spy have you?

 

[godnodog]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Never heard of spy vs spy have you?

 

Of course I have, and I have no doubt that Western world is filled with pro-ucr and anti-russ propaganda, but some things do not need deep thoughts.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, godnodog said:

He doesn't have one. Proof is that every week the reasons changed for the invasion...sorry "special militar operation". Proof is the amount of crapp every day official russian media spew at the russian population? Every week something different, from super soldiers to genetic modified deseases targeted at "slavs", to European and americans starving and dieing of cold, and on and on. They bet in EU/Nato disarray, and on and on and on.

 

 

So you believe that Putin massed an army on Ukraine and attacked without provocation because he didn't have a plan?  Which, if that were true,  would mean that he was actually insane.  Okay.  Putin is insane.

Or...He did have a plan, does have a plan...like...remember Ali vs Frazier fight?  Ali would just lay back on the ropes like a whooped kitten and let Frazier pound on him...it was a strategy known as Rope a Dope.  So Frazier spends all of his resources because he thinks he is winning...got him on the ropes!  Then out of nowhere, with a fury of blitz Ali strikes a worn down and frazzled Frazier.  

You know his plan.  Who told you his plan godgodog?  Who is feeding you all this stuff?  They call it programming for a reason.

[+joc]

3 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Of course I have, and I have no doubt that Western world is filled with pro-ucr and anti-russ propaganda, but some things do not need deep thoughts.

And why does Russia, attacking Ukraine suddenly after Biden wins the election...why does that not require deeper thought.  

Okay...one last question...did you live, were you alive...during the Cold War when Russia was known as USSR.  Were you alive then?

[+joc]

I know this war in Ukraine thing is not a 'movie' ...to many of you it is more of a football game...and the Cowboys are losing 45 -3 in the 4th quarter.  This isn't that.

So, since no one seems to really have much of a clue...I will tell  you exactly what I think.

I think:    

This is the beginning of an elaborate strategy by Russia to take over the entire European Union.   omg can you hear the gasps and laughs?   

Yeah, I can hear them.   Same bunch of folks that told me what a great upcoming democracy  Russia was ...  

Hey, I could be wrong...but this is something that will eventually affect every person on the planet...so...yeah...I think it deserves more intellectual thought than a sporting event.

[+joc]

50 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Despite all propaganda in USSR, where is USSR now? Mind you, USSR with Warsaw pact socialist countries was truely a beast... russkystan is just 1/4 of the former monster in human resources...

Where is the USSR now?  What was the USSR?  It was Russia rolling in their tanks and saying Welcome to our Union comrade.  And where is Russia now, rolling their tanks and soldiers and planes into the Ukraine.

Why on gods grey earth do people think Russia is suddenly this poor 3rd world country with no money and no power?  Not because of the Russian Propaganda Machine....because of the American Propaganda Machine.  Which in reality is basically the same thing.

This is the plan all along...of russia.  No matter how long it takes...we will win.  For decades Russia spread the lies of their Socialist policies all over the free world.

For decades those lies have grown like weeds through out the Entertainment and News and Education industries where they have now grown to what we currently have...a duped public, programmable, manipulatable, and clueless...

Edited November 26, 2022 by joc

[bmk1245]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

Where is the USSR now?  What was the USSR?  It was Russia rolling in their tanks and saying Welcome to our Union comrade.  And where is Russia now, rolling their tanks and soldiers and planes into the Ukraine.

Why on gods grey earth do people think Russia is suddenly this poor 3rd world country with no money and no power?  Not because of the Russian Propaganda Machine....because of the American Propaganda Machine.  Which in reality is basically the same thing.

This is the plan all along...of russia.  No matter how long it takes...we will win.  For decades Russia spread the lies of their Socialist policies all over the free world.

For decades those lies have grown like weeds through out the Entertainment and News and Education industries where they have now grown to what we currently have...a duped public, programmable, manipulatable, and clueless...

Ukraine was a part of USSR, with little help Ukrainians managing to stick shampagne bottle up to collective putlers rectum.

PS lets brush entertainment, news, and education aside for another thread... I have plenty to say about it, on the verge to being banned...

[godnodog]

40 minutes ago, joc said:

So you believe that Putin massed an army on Ukraine and attacked without provocation because he didn't have a plan?  Which, if that were true,  would mean that he was actually insane.  Okay.  Putin is insane.Or....

what provocation? when the US warned of the eminent invasion, when european leaders tried to discourage Russia, Russia accused the west of being hysterical, or was this western provocation? 

 

you are ocult version 2

[Occult1]

Artillery Is Breaking in Ukraine. It’s Becoming a Problem for the Pentagon.

''WASHINGTON — Ukrainian troops fire thousands of explosive shells at Russian targets every day, using high-tech cannons supplied by the United States and its allies. But those weapons are burning out after months of overuse, or being damaged or destroyed in combat, and dozens have been taken off the battlefield for repairs, according to U.S. and Ukrainian officials.

A third of the roughly 350 Western-made howitzers donated to Kyiv are out of action at any given time, according to U.S. defense officials and others familiar with Ukraine’s defense needs.

Swapping out a howitzer’s barrel, which can be 20 feet long and weigh thousands of pounds, is beyond the capability of soldiers in the field and has become a priority for the Pentagon’s European Command, which has set up a repair facility in Poland.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html

[+joc]

28 minutes ago, godnodog said:

what provocation? when the US warned of the eminent invasion, when european leaders tried to discourage Russia, Russia accused the west of being hysterical, or was this western provocation? 

 

you are ocult version 2

No, I am not any version of anyone.  If you want to make it personal go ahead, I will continue my intellectual reasoning process without you.

Good question...what provocation?  Unprovoked, Russia makes excuses to attack Ukraine.  Why?...well if we answer that as ...Putin is crazy... it does little to offset the reality of Russia's history of aggression.  Just as easily we can say Stalin was crazy.  and all that came after him.

The Ukraine did not provoke Russia.  They didn't attack Russia...they just refused to do something Russia wanted them to do.  Russia did what Russia has always done...but this is a bit different.  If Ukraine had become part of NATO...Putin attacking Ukraine would have been an instant WWIII.  But they didn't and he did and that's where we are.  Trump may have been a lot of things, but as president, he would not have put up with Putin attacking Ukraine.  That didn't happen on his watch.   My point in saying that is not to make this political.  What happened after the Cold War?  America became the only Super Power and Russia was left picking up pieces...they saw Trump as another Reagan, revving up the Oil Drilling...revving up the Engine of Democracy.  They knew if that continued they would never catch up economically or otherwise.  So with Trump gone, a small window of opportunity to attack the only country not NATO...and they grasped it! 

I'm just saying that without deeper intellectual thought process...asking an awful lot of why and if this, then questions...how can we reason any of this, without deeper intellectual thought process concerning all aspects of Russia, The USSR, The Cold War, Post Cold War, the Bosnian War and all other conflicts that followed, the creation of the European Union, the politics of America during all of it.   If we don't start thinking along the lines of ...something else is going on here...what is Russia hoping, desiring, planning to accomplish with this invasion, then we are left with the Propaganda Media Version of events.  Bad idea in my opinion!

Did you misunderstand, misread what I said?  

So you believe that Putin massed an army on Ukraine and attacked without provocation because he didn't have a plan? 

Edited November 26, 2022 by joc

[bmk1245]

22 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Artillery Is Breaking in Ukraine. It’s Becoming a Problem for the Pentagon.

''WASHINGTON — Ukrainian troops fire thousands of explosive shells at Russian targets every day, using high-tech cannons supplied by the United States and its allies. But those weapons are burning out after months of overuse, or being damaged or destroyed in combat, and dozens have been taken off the battlefield for repairs, according to U.S. and Ukrainian officials.

A third of the roughly 350 Western-made howitzers donated to Kyiv are out of action at any given time, according to U.S. defense officials and others familiar with Ukraine’s defense needs.

Swapping out a howitzer’s barrel, which can be 20 feet long and weigh thousands of pounds, is beyond the capability of soldiers in the field and has become a priority for the Pentagon’s European Command, which has set up a repair facility in Poland.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html

Thats why western countries have to bring more howitzers, whitch gather dust in the deserts, ASAP.

[bmk1245]

8 minutes ago, joc said:

No, I am not any version of anyone.  If you want to make it personal go ahead, I will continue my intellectual reasoning process without you.

Good question...what provocation?  Unprovoked, Russia makes excuses to attack Ukraine.  Why?...well if we answer that as ...Putin is crazy... it does little to offset the reality of Russia's history of aggression.  Just as easily we can say Stalin was crazy.  and all that came after him.

The Ukraine did not provoke Russia.  They didn't attack Russia...they just refused to do something Russia wanted them to do.  Russia did what Russia has always done...but this is a bit different.  If Ukraine had become part of NATO...Putin attacking Ukraine would have been an instant WWIII.  But they didn't and he did and that's where we are.  Trump may have been a lot of things, but as president, he would not have put up with Putin attacking Ukraine.  That didn't happen on his watch.   My point in saying that is not to make this political.  What happened after the Cold War?  America became the only Super Power and Russia was left picking up pieces...they saw Trump as another Reagan, revving up the Oil Drilling...revving up the Engine of Democracy.  They knew if that continued they would never catch up economically or otherwise.  So with Trump gone, a small window of opportunity to attack the only country not NATO...and they grasped it! 

I'm just saying that without deeper intellectual thought process...asking an awful lot of why and if this, then questions...how can we reason any of this, without deeper intellectual thought process concerning all aspects of Russia, The USSR, The Cold War, Post Cold War, the Bosnian War and all other conflicts that followed, the creation of the European Union, the politics of America during all of it.   If we don't start thinking along the lines of ...something else is going on here...what is Russia hoping, desiring, planning to accomplish with this invasion, then we are left with the Propaganda Media Version of events.  Bad idea in my opinion!

Dude, are you ok? Letter floodflash, kinda... 

[+joc]

1 minute ago, bmk1245 said:

Dude, are you ok? Letter floodflash, kinda... 

I'm fine...what are you referring to...I don't know what you are talking about...I don't know what Letter floodflash means...like I'm writing too much?  Too many words?

[bmk1245]

15 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm fine...what are you referring to...I don't know what you are talking about...I don't know what Letter floodflash means...like I'm writing too much?  Too many words?

Too many words.

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, joc said:

I know this war in Ukraine thing is not a 'movie' ...to many of you it is more of a football game...and the Cowboys are losing 45 -3 in the 4th quarter.  This isn't that.

So, since no one seems to really have much of a clue...I will tell  you exactly what I think.

I think:    

This is the beginning of an elaborate strategy by Russia to take over the entire European Union.   omg can you hear the gasps and laughs?   

Yeah, I can hear them.   Same bunch of folks that told me what a great upcoming democracy  Russia was ...  

Hey, I could be wrong...but this is something that will eventually affect every person on the planet...so...yeah...I think it deserves more intellectual thought than a sporting event.

I can safely say you are completely and utterly wrong.

You seem stuck on this idea that Putin is some master strategist and everything done is part of some insanely complex plan that will end with a stunning Russian victory.  The reality is that Putin messed up largely due to severe corruption throughout the Russian government and military along with the fact that he surrounded himself with sycophants which generally causes problems.

What is known is that at the start of the invasion there was no unified overall Russian command, instead each Russian military district was given a front and a list of objectives to achieve.  The Russian military districts due to no overall command had essentially zero coordination between themselves, competed with each other for resources cause each general wanted to make sure they achieved their objectives to save/advance themselves and not care how the other generals were doing, and frequently fought against themselves cause they had no idea where other districts were advancing or being pushed or stalling causing severe friendly fire incidents.  In April after multiple failures, embarrassments, and the loss of vital equipment and experienced soldiers the Russians finally created a unified overall command to coordinate the military districts.  Now they are just replacing the person in overall command every couple of months which creates it's own problems.

Just looking at tanks alone Russia had at the start of the war Russia had approximately 13,127 tanks with 10,200 in reserve and 2,927 in active servics.  Since the war has been going on Russia has had to bring into active duty approximately 800 T-62/64 tanks.  According to documented picture losses, which are a lower estimate as losses will be higher than what is pictured, Russia has been confirmed to of lost 1,513 tanks.  To give a further idea of how bad it is Russia had 480 active T-80 tanks before the war started and they have lost 343 of them, or approximately 71.5%.  Elite Guard units have been effectively destroyed, the VDV essentially no longer exist as a branch of the Russian military.

Between your theory that Putin is sacrificing his best soldiers and equipment to perform some unimaginably complex strategy to take over Europe and the theory that an autocrat who surrounded himself with sycophants who refused to tell him any bad news or point out any flaws in anything he said had badly planned an invasion which of the two is more likely.

[bmk1245]

6 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

I can safely say you are completely and utterly wrong.

You seem stuck on this idea that Putin is some master strategist and everything done is part of some insanely complex plan that will end with a stunning Russian victory.  The reality is that Putin messed up largely due to severe corruption throughout the Russian government and military along with the fact that he surrounded himself with sycophants which generally causes problems.

What is known is that at the start of the invasion there was no unified overall Russian command, instead each Russian military district was given a front and a list of objectives to achieve.  The Russian military districts due to no overall command had essentially zero coordination between themselves, competed with each other for resources cause each general wanted to make sure they achieved their objectives to save/advance themselves and not care how the other generals were doing, and frequently fought against themselves cause they had no idea where other districts were advancing or being pushed or stalling causing severe friendly fire incidents.  In April after multiple failures, embarrassments, and the loss of vital equipment and experienced soldiers the Russians finally created a unified overall command to coordinate the military districts.  Now they are just replacing the person in overall command every couple of months which creates it's own problems.

Just looking at tanks alone Russia had at the start of the war Russia had approximately 13,127 tanks with 10,200 in reserve and 2,927 in active servics.  Since the war has been going on Russia has had to bring into active duty approximately 800 T-62/64 tanks.  According to documented picture losses, which are a lower estimate as losses will be higher than what is pictured, Russia has been confirmed to of lost 1,513 tanks.  To give a further idea of how bad it is Russia had 480 active T-80 tanks before the war started and they have lost 343 of them, or approximately 71.5%.  Elite Guard units have been effectively destroyed, the VDV essentially no longer exist as a branch of the Russian military.

Between your theory that Putin is sacrificing his best soldiers and equipment to perform some unimaginably complex strategy to take over Europe and the theory that an autocrat who surrounded himself with sycophants who refused to tell him any bad news or point out any flaws in anything he said had badly planned an invasion which of the two is more likely.

With all due respect, wrapsheet means little.

[bmk1245]

Heh, live wire. relax all

 

[+Razman]

2 hours ago, joc said:

Trump may have been a lot of things, but as president, he would not have put up with Putin attacking Ukraine.

 And what do you suppose he would have done? 

[Occult1]

2 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Thats why western countries have to bring more howitzers, whitch gather dust in the deserts, ASAP.

We've got a real problem since the equipment we're sending to Ukraine is breaking up sooner than we can actually replace it. Almost a third of the horwitzers provided are already 'out of action', so much so that the U.S. had to set up a repair shop in nearby Poland.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Occult1

[bmk1245]

22 minutes ago, razman said:

 And what do you suppose he would have done? 

'I have bigger red button' say.

[bmk1245]

11 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

We've got a real problem since the equipment we're sending to Ukraine is breaking up sooner than we can actually replace it. Almost a third of the horwitzers provided are already 'out of action', so much so that the U.S. had to set up a repair shop in nearby Poland.

Thats why westerners have to bring more weapons.

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, joc said:

No, I am not any version of anyone.  If you want to make it personal go ahead, I will continue my intellectual reasoning process without you.

Good question...what provocation?  Unprovoked, Russia makes excuses to attack Ukraine.  Why?...well if we answer that as ...Putin is crazy... it does little to offset the reality of Russia's history of aggression.  Just as easily we can say Stalin was crazy.  and all that came after him.

The Ukraine did not provoke Russia.  They didn't attack Russia...they just refused to do something Russia wanted them to do.  Russia did what Russia has always done...but this is a bit different.  If Ukraine had become part of NATO...Putin attacking Ukraine would have been an instant WWIII.  But they didn't and he did and that's where we are.  Trump may have been a lot of things, but as president, he would not have put up with Putin attacking Ukraine.  That didn't happen on his watch.   My point in saying that is not to make this political.  What happened after the Cold War?  America became the only Super Power and Russia was left picking up pieces...they saw Trump as another Reagan, revving up the Oil Drilling...revving up the Engine of Democracy.  They knew if that continued they would never catch up economically or otherwise.  So with Trump gone, a small window of opportunity to attack the only country not NATO...and they grasped it! 

I'm just saying that without deeper intellectual thought process...asking an awful lot of why and if this, then questions...how can we reason any of this, without deeper intellectual thought process concerning all aspects of Russia, The USSR, The Cold War, Post Cold War, the Bosnian War and all other conflicts that followed, the creation of the European Union, the politics of America during all of it.   If we don't start thinking along the lines of ...something else is going on here...what is Russia hoping, desiring, planning to accomplish with this invasion, then we are left with the Propaganda Media Version of events.  Bad idea in my opinion!

Did you misunderstand, misread what I said?  

So you believe that Putin massed an army on Ukraine and attacked without provocation because he didn't have a plan? 

Hi Joc

Yes he did have a plan and was even going to have a parade after his projected 3 day invasion that failed and has been trying to maintain his lost ego every since then

Edited November 26, 2022 by jmccr8

[bmk1245]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Joc

Urs he did have a plan and was even going to have a parade after his projected 3 day invasion that failed and has been trying to maintain his lost ego every since then

Whois 'Urs'?