Unusual Tournament Posted January 27, 2023 #22851 Share Posted January 27, 2023 @Helen of Annoy it seems the Abrams America is sending are new build ones that will not have Chobham DU armour package. Up to 6 months to a year before they start receiving them. The war is bogged down. But on the plus side we have you to entertain us a while longer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 27, 2023 #22852 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Occult1 said: What's your point? Russia is not isolated, despite what we were lead to believe. They still have allies. Hi Occult Other than oil at pennies on the dollar those allies aren’t buying anything from Russia and are all selling to Russia that is quickly running out of buying power so are in debt to them. When the dust settles those allies will be vultures pickling at the bones of what is left of Russia. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 27, 2023 #22853 Share Posted January 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said: @Helen of Annoy it seems the Abrams America is sending are new build ones that will not have Chobham DU armour package. Up to 6 months to a year before they start receiving them. The war is bogged down. But on the plus side we have you to entertain us a while longer Hi UT There are tanks coming from European members that will be there much sooner 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 27, 2023 #22854 Share Posted January 27, 2023 12 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said: Of course. There are no indestructible tanks. But there's a whole year of constant proofs that Ukrainians know what they're doing while russians suffer from collective case of chaotic stupidity. Maybe the Armata will be safe.Maybe they won't be on the battlefield. I saw this funny comment on Reddit: Although not battle tested, the General in charge of development and budget has stated the T-14 Armata is capable of evading even the most stringent detection. When asked to what extent, he replied, “Do you see any?” 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 27, 2023 #22855 Share Posted January 27, 2023 6 hours ago, acidhead said: You have absolutely zero evidence of those accusations. In fact most of what you say is pure bs. Putin waited for Trump to be out of office before doing anything. I have to give Trump a little credit for keeping the US out of most conflicts during his term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted January 27, 2023 #22856 Share Posted January 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, Myles said: Putin waited for Trump to be out of office before doing anything. I have to give Trump a little credit for keeping the US out of most conflicts during his term. Trump kept Putin from invading through what, masculine energy? Alot of the same people who support Trump are also the people who think we shouldn't arm Ukraine and should just let Putin take it. So I'm not really seeing why people think Trump stopped Putin. The classic correlation does not equal causation. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted January 27, 2023 #22857 Share Posted January 27, 2023 10 hours ago, Occult1 said: What's your point? Russia is not isolated, despite what we were lead to believe. They still have allies. I just wanted to make sure that your line of thinking also has N. Korea, China and Iran listed as active participants (which they're really not of course). However, using that line of thinking they can be sanctioned and held responsible for war crimes and violation of UN sanctions. Not to mention culpability in assisting in the murder of civilians of another sovereign nation. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted January 27, 2023 #22858 Share Posted January 27, 2023 WASHINGTON — Ukraine must wait months to receive the 31 M1 Abrams tanks promised by the US because the Pentagon does not have enough of the critical vehicles in its own stockpile to send now, spokeswoman Sabrina Singh confirmed Thursday. If While the White House has said Ukrainians need the more advanced capabilities to gear up for a fresh Russian offensive expected this spring, the US tanks won’t roll into eastern Europe until the predicted push is a distant memory….. …..White House officials warned Wednesday it could take up to a year before Kyiv receives the tanks that President Biden publicly pledged because they would be purchased new with Congressionally approved funds as part of the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative. https://nypost.com/2023/01/26/ukraine-will-wait-to-get-american-tanks-amid-russia-war/amp/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 27, 2023 #22859 Share Posted January 27, 2023 36 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: Trump kept Putin from invading through what, masculine energy? Alot of the same people who support Trump are also the people who think we shouldn't arm Ukraine and should just let Putin take it. So I'm not really seeing why people think Trump stopped Putin. The classic correlation does not equal causation. I don't know why putz Putin waited for biden. The fact is that for some reason Russia did not act while Trump was president. I rarely support Trump. Voting for him doesn't mean he has 100% support from me. He's and idiot like biden and I don't want him as president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted January 27, 2023 #22860 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) There is no war with Trump in Office. Here's how he could negotiate an end in 24h: 1. Guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO (Neutralization) 2. Demilitarization ( Ukraine's military is reduced to a small, non-threatening size) 3. Indefinite moratorium on Crimea. 4. Special status to the Donbas region (recognition of independence) Edited January 27, 2023 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted January 27, 2023 #22861 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted January 27, 2023 #22862 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Occult1 said: There is no war with Trump in Office. Here's how he could negotiate an end in 24h: 1. Guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO (Neutralization) 2. Demilitarization ( Ukraine's military is reduced to a small, non-threatening size) 3. Indefinite moratorium on Crimea. 4. Special status to the Donbas region (recognition of independence) Oh wow, Ukraine surrendering would end the war. Who would have thunk it Edited January 27, 2023 by spartan max2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted January 27, 2023 #22863 Share Posted January 27, 2023 37 minutes ago, Myles said: I don't know why putz Putin waited for biden. The fact is that for some reason Russia did not act while Trump was president. Correlation does not equal causation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted January 27, 2023 #22864 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Myles said: Putin waited for Trump to be out of office before doing anything. I have to give Trump a little credit for keeping the US out of most conflicts during his term. Myles, Biden did not start the war in Ukraine. Fact. Why Putin was waiting while trump was in office and what would have happened if Putin had attackt then are only speculations and whataboutisms. We do not know. But, noone here should blame Biden, Trudeau, Scholz, Zelensky....for something that Putin started. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted January 27, 2023 #22865 Share Posted January 27, 2023 16 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Helen That’s weird given they leave the bodies of their dead and wounded in the field and don’t bother bringing them home to their families. Especially the cannon fodder from prisons, brought by "wagner", they are not even given medical aid by their own. prigozhin is a psychopath, he doesn't care about the living let alone the dead. But two months or so ago he started making statements and small gestures that are clearly supposed to mean that he respects Ukrainians, despite having his cannon fodder attacking Ukraine. It is supposed to save his image because he's racist to the neo-Nazi extreme and from the racist point of view, he's a spectacular race traitor, who pays various non- or semi-white minority people to kill white Ukrainians. russians even tried talking Ukrainian POWs into switching to russian side based on racist and anti-Western bull****. While doing the exact opposite of own racist ideology. So it's even dirtier and more repulsive than it seems at the first sight. prigozhin is a mass murderer and a war criminal and a racist sack of **** who finds his use of minorities against white people embarrassing, but doesn't find the actual war problematic. On the brighter side, as I said, these bizarre gestures are not going to help him. They're meaningless and bizarre. But I mention them because they strongly indicate that he's very afraid for his own ass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 27, 2023 #22866 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Especially the cannon fodder from prisons, brought by "wagner", they are not even given medical aid by their own. prigozhin is a psychopath, he doesn't care about the living let alone the dead. But two months or so ago he started making statements and small gestures that are clearly supposed to mean that he respects Ukrainians, despite having his cannon fodder attacking Ukraine. It is supposed to save his image because he's racist to the neo-Nazi extreme and from the racist point of view, he's a spectacular race traitor, who pays various non- or semi-white minority people to kill white Ukrainians. russians even tried talking Ukrainian POWs into switching to russian side based on racist and anti-Western bull****. While doing the exact opposite of own racist ideology. So it's even dirtier and more repulsive than it seems at the first sight. prigozhin is a mass murderer and a war criminal and a racist sack of **** who finds his use of minorities against white people embarrassing, but doesn't find the actual war problematic. On the brighter side, as I said, these bizarre gestures are not going to help him. They're meaningless and bizarre. But I mention them because they strongly indicate that he's very afraid for his own ass. Hi Helen He can likely see the writing on the wall and knows they can’t win. His losses won’t go well for his hopes of replacing Putin or surviving to replace him. Kind of a buyers regret where there is no refund or exchange for the lemon he bought that is running on 4 of the 8 cylinders that it should be running on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted January 27, 2023 #22867 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Russia Agrees With Trump's Perspective on Sending Tanks to Ukraine ''The Kremlin is echoing former President Donald Trump's concerns about the United States sending more than two dozen tanks to Ukraine. [...] His words apparently reached the Kremlin, as spokesperson Dmitry Peskov invoked Trump when saying on Friday that Western tanks being supplied to Ukraine are escalating tensions. "Tensions are rising particularly due to the decisions that are made, first and foremost, in Washington and in European capitals under Washington's pressure," Peskov told reporters, according to Russian media outlet Tass. "It is about the supplies of weapons, tanks and other things, and ongoing discussions that now concern aircraft. In this regard, tensions are mounting." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/russia-agrees-with-trump-s-perspective-on-sending-tanks-to-ukraine/ar-AA16Orpb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted January 27, 2023 #22868 Share Posted January 27, 2023 7 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said: @Helen of Annoy it seems the Abrams America is sending are new build ones that will not have Chobham DU armour package. Up to 6 months to a year before they start receiving them. The war is bogged down. But on the plus side we have you to entertain us a while longer The war is going on just nicely, thanks for showing interest. It's just russia that is bogged down, due to using myths instead of realistic assessments. Serve them right. Sending Abrams is a show of force and intent by the USA. They will arrive soon enough for the final clean-up, though, so it's not like they won't see any action. Also you forgot about Bradleys, HIMARS, Javelins and literal millions of pieces of all sorts of munitions (regarding USA) and dozens of types of European equipment plus mountains of munitions that already are in Ukraine/are going to Ukraine and to the routine exercises that happen to take place at Ukrainian border too. I'm so glad I've got a chance to entertain you. Today we'll do some trainspotting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted January 27, 2023 #22869 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, odas said: Myles, Biden did not start the war in Ukraine. Fact. Why Putin was waiting while trump was in office and what would have happened if Putin had attackt then are only speculations and whataboutisms. We do not know. But, noone here should blame Biden, Trudeau, Scholz, Zelensky....for something that Putin started. The war started in part because of the Biden administration's failure to understand and address Russia's security concerns. Trump wouldn't have made that mistake. He seems to understand Putin's mindset better than anyone else and there is a very high probability that he would have been able to diffuse the whole situation. Edited January 27, 2023 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 27, 2023 #22870 Share Posted January 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Occult1 said: Russia Agrees With Trump's Perspective on Sending Tanks to Ukraine ''The Kremlin is echoing former President Donald Trump's concerns about the United States sending more than two dozen tanks to Ukraine. [...] His words apparently reached the Kremlin, as spokesperson Dmitry Peskov invoked Trump when saying on Friday that Western tanks being supplied to Ukraine are escalating tensions. "Tensions are rising particularly due to the decisions that are made, first and foremost, in Washington and in European capitals under Washington's pressure," Peskov told reporters, according to Russian media outlet Tass. "It is about the supplies of weapons, tanks and other things, and ongoing discussions that now concern aircraft. In this regard, tensions are mounting." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/russia-agrees-with-trump-s-perspective-on-sending-tanks-to-ukraine/ar-AA16Orpb Hi Occult The operative words are former president, he can babble like the loon he is to limelight himself as he will never be president again. The voting majority is in favour of supporting the Ukraine so that would tend to indicate that he is barking up the wrong tree. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted January 27, 2023 #22871 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: 1. Guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO (Neutralization) Such a guarantee would only realistically last a total of max. four years. Quote 2. Demilitarization ( Ukraine's military is reduced to a small, non-threatening size) Ukraine's military was never threatening anybody. The only threat they are posing is as an obstacle, preventing Russia from expanding its imperialist influence. 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: 3. Indefinite moratorium on Crimea. How would Trump go about imposing such a thing? Lol. 1 hour ago, Occult1 said: 4. Special status to the Donbas region (recognition of independence) See above. And now, a cute picture for your Bolshevik soul. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted January 27, 2023 #22872 Share Posted January 27, 2023 CNN)The decision by Germany, the United States, and others to send main battle tanks to Ukraine has gone further than many thought realistic just months ago. Western nations, showcasing unity and wanting to head off a renewed Russian offensive, have cast aside fears that more advanced weaponry risked provoking Russian President Vladimir Putin. With tanks checked off the list, Ukrainian leaders have renewed their public appeals for Western fighter jets….. ……But while last year the delivery of fighter jets was declared by the Pentagon press secretary to bring "little increased capabilities, at high risk," now Jon Finer, the US Deputy National Security Adviser, says that they have "not ruled in or out any specific systems," including the F-16…… …….The Netherlands, too, elicited some raised eyebrows last week, when its foreign minister told a parliamentarian asking about F-16s that "when it comes to things that the Netherlands can supply, there are no taboos." https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/26/europe/ukraine-tanks-fighter-jets-intl/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted January 27, 2023 #22873 Share Posted January 27, 2023 6 hours ago, pellinore said: Maybe the Armata will be safe.Maybe they won't be on the battlefield. I saw this funny comment on Reddit: Although not battle tested, the General in charge of development and budget has stated the T-14 Armata is capable of evading even the most stringent detection. When asked to what extent, he replied, “Do you see any?” Not to mention that the new direct participant in the war, Laos, just sent dozens of T-34 made in 1944 (literally) back to russia, so the issue of what is going to tow Armatas around was solved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted January 27, 2023 #22874 Share Posted January 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Occult1 said: The war started in part because of the Biden administration's failure to understand and address Russia's security concerns. Trump wouldn't have made that mistake. He seems to understand Putin's mindset better than anyone else and there is a very high probability that he would have been able to diffuse the whole situation. Please do not give me personal opinions when I ask for facts. Now you want to blame Biden? Then blame me as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereWeAreThen Posted January 27, 2023 #22875 Share Posted January 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, Occult1 said: The war started in part because of the Biden administration's failure to understand and address Russia's security concerns. Trump wouldn't have made that mistake. He seems to understand Putin's mindset better than anyone else and there is a very high probability that he would have been able to diffuse the whole situation. The war was started because putler invaded Ukraine. Stop blaming other people its sad and pathetic. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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