Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

Just imagine how those cheering this thing on would behave if they had the power to silence differing opinions.  And they'd consider themselves totally justified.  End justifies the means, as it were.

Are you honestly saying, based upon your other comments in this thread,  that you would not support the vary thing your complaining about here? 

Sounds like the Pot calling the kettle black to me!

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

So, Feb 04, first Leopard Tank arrives in Ukraine.

Also Ukraine blows up the factory where parts for the Kerch bridge are being fabricated....  Cunning...

Hey brother, the only tank that is currently better than the German Leopard Tank is the M1 Abrams. When the Ukrainians have both these Tanks for use there will be no stopping the Ukrainians when they begin their next offensive. 

Here is some updated news that’s approximately 35 minutes old.

Russian army officer says he saw Ukrainian POWs tortured: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-army-officer-says-he-saw-ukrainian-pows-tortured/ar-AA177XyB?cvid=04b65e633f4b4b87b0918445da3e9f1

Konstantin Yefremov, the most senior Russian soldier to defect and speak out openly against the war, is now in hiding and spoke to ABC News from Mexico. He is currently seeking to apply for political asylum in the United States. "I want that what I saw, what I was witness to, becomes known to society. So that the truth is uncovered," Yefremov said. 

"I know that at home there only awaits me, in the best case, a lengthy prison term and, in the worst, they'll simply execute me," he said. "But to hide at home and wait for them to come for you, that's humiliating. And I can't be silent any longer. I don't want to be silent." 

Yefremov, 33, spent three months as an officer in areas of Ukraine's southern Zaporizhzhia region that were occupied by Russian forces in the first phase of the war. During that time, he said he personally witnessed the torture of Ukrainian prisoners during interrogations, including the shooting of one POW in the arms and legs and threats of rape.

MORE: 'Kidnapped' by Russian soldiers: Ukrainian orphans, guardian share their story after release

Yefremov has provided ABC News with documents confirming his identity as well as photos and videos that ABC has verified show him in southern Ukraine during the period he describes. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-army-officer-says-he-saw-ukrainian-pows-tortured/ar-AA177XyB?cvid=04b65e633f4b4b87b0918445da3e9f14

 

[Lune]

This topic should have read... NATO expands to 13 countries near Russian borders lmao.

[spartan max2]

28 minutes ago, lune said:

This topic should have read... NATO expands to 13 countries near Russian borders lmao.

People join military alliances when they feel threatened. 

[Grey Area]

36 minutes ago, lune said:

This topic should have read... NATO expands to 13 countries near Russian borders lmao.

Or more like:  Countries that are close to Russia, see Ukraine and don’t want that happening to them!

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Hey brother, the only tank that is currently better than the German Leopard Tank is the M1 Abrams. When the Ukrainians have both these Tanks for use there will be no stopping the Ukrainians when they begin their next offensive. 

Here is some updated news that’s approximately 35 minutes old.

Russian army officer says he saw Ukrainian POWs tortured: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-army-officer-says-he-saw-ukrainian-pows-tortured/ar-AA177XyB?cvid=04b65e633f4b4b87b0918445da3e9f1

Konstantin Yefremov, the most senior Russian soldier to defect and speak out openly against the war, is now in hiding and spoke to ABC News from Mexico. He is currently seeking to apply for political asylum in the United States. "I want that what I saw, what I was witness to, becomes known to society. So that the truth is uncovered," Yefremov said. 

"I know that at home there only awaits me, in the best case, a lengthy prison term and, in the worst, they'll simply execute me," he said. "But to hide at home and wait for them to come for you, that's humiliating. And I can't be silent any longer. I don't want to be silent." 

Yefremov, 33, spent three months as an officer in areas of Ukraine's southern Zaporizhzhia region that were occupied by Russian forces in the first phase of the war. During that time, he said he personally witnessed the torture of Ukrainian prisoners during interrogations, including the shooting of one POW in the arms and legs and threats of rape.

MORE: 'Kidnapped' by Russian soldiers: Ukrainian orphans, guardian share their story after release

Yefremov has provided ABC News with documents confirming his identity as well as photos and videos that ABC has verified show him in southern Ukraine during the period he describes. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-army-officer-says-he-saw-ukrainian-pows-tortured/ar-AA177XyB?cvid=04b65e633f4b4b87b0918445da3e9f14

 

The Leopard 2A7A1 is currently the best tank in the world.

That Leopard is not the variant which Ukraine is receiving. Germany sold surplus stocks of a much older variant to Poland, Poland did them up, and its those now going to Ukraine. They are larger than the T-90 but in terms of defending and knocking out other thanks, they are basically equal. The same goes for the Challenger 2 tanks Britain is sending. In essence, they all have rounds which can one shot through each others armour. Its NATO and Russia fighting each other with both of their outdated junk.

Lets also get one thing clear, Ukraine is only receiving enough tanks for one tank battalion. That is no where near enough to defend the line, they are likely intended for a spear thrust somewhere or they will put them in Kiev to defend against a spring offensive. With 120-140 tanks, they won`t last long. As for the M1 Abrams I think you mean the M1A2 Abrams. The USA only has about 1500 of them, its currently ranked as the 2nd best tank in the world. No M1A3 upgrade is yet planned.

[Lune]

52 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

People join military alliances when they feel threatened. 

Yes indeed. That's why Russia, China, Iran and many other countries are building an alliance duh. The US, UK and their allies have been threatening dozens of countries for years, and not just threats.. Invasions.. millions dead, not threatened actually dead.

[Lune]

49 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Or more like:  Countries that are close to Russia, see Ukraine and don’t want that happening to them!

Or more like: Countries are sick of the US BULLYING them and are finally coming together and have had enough of their BS.

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, lune said:

Yes indeed. That's why Russia, China, Iran and many other countries are building an alliance duh. The US, UK and their allies have been threatening dozens of countries for years, and not just threats.. Invasions.. millions dead, not threatened actually dead.

So you agree that NATOs expansion is due to Russia's neighbors feeling unsafe? 

Russia, China, and Iran are allied currently. An alliance of common interest and not of ideas are always tenuous. They feel threatened by the liberal world order. 

As if we need a more clear picture of which side is more the good guy lol. Which of the above governments would you prefer to live under?

Edited February 5, 2023 by spartan max2

[Lune]

53 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Or more like:  Countries that are close to Russia, see Ukraine and don’t want that happening to them!

Oh and the US and the UK are really close to Russia lmao. They should mind their own business, period.

[Lune]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

So you agree that NATOs expansion is due to Russia's neighbors feeling unsafe? 

Russia, China, and Iran are allied currently. An alliance of common interest and not of ideas are always tenuous. They feel threatened by the liberal world order. 

As if we need a more clear picture of which side is more the good guy lol. Which of the above governments would you prefer to live under?

No, I agree with nothing you say. Good guy you say and then laugh?

Tell that to the millions dead and displaced by the US and the UK etc. I live under a corrupt government just like you do so don't even bother going there.

Right now? Anywhere but Ukraine.

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, lune said:

No, I agree with nothing you say. Good guy you say and then laugh?

Tell that to the millions dead and displaced by the US and the UK etc. I live under a corrupt government just like you do so don't even bother going there.

Right now? Anywhere but Ukraine.

So between Germany, the US, Russia, China, and Iran. Where would you prefer to live? If you care about your individual rights atleast. 

No one is saying every decision the US has ever made is good. That's just a strawman you seem to be making. Its a grey world. But at the end of the day I prefer a world mostly ran by democratic nations than dictators, the CCP, and religious fanatics.

[DarkHunter]

38 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The USA only has about 1500 of them

America has approximately 2,500 active Abrams tanks and a further 3,700 in storage.  

[Lune]

25 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

So between Germany, the US, Russia, China, and Iran. Where would you prefer to live? If you care about your individual rights atleast. 

No one is saying every decision the US has ever made is good. That's just a strawman you seem to be making. Its a grey world. But at the end of the day I prefer a world mostly ran by democratic nations than dictators, the CCP, and religious fanatics.

You say nothing that makes sense. I probably wouldn't want to live in any of them countries but it's not about where I live it's about what's right and arming the most corrupt country on the planet to fight Russia (who has nuclear weapons) is not a clever thing to do. Putting a comedian at the helm is also ridiculous. There's two examples of  the US making decisions that are not good and that's just the last 12 months.  Another is antagonising China and Iran.. and Trying to dictate to the rest of the world to sanction Russia when it's collapsing our economies. Smart moves wouldn't you say?

[spartan max2]

19 minutes ago, lune said:

You say nothing that makes sense. I probably wouldn't want to live in any of them countries but it's not about where I live it's about what's right and arming the most corrupt country on the planet to fight Russia (who has nuclear weapons) is not a clever thing to do. Putting a comedian at the helm is also ridiculous. There's two examples of  the US making decisions that are not good and that's just the last 12 months.  Another is antagonising China and Iran.. and Trying to dictate to the rest of the world to sanction Russia when it's collapsing our economies. Smart moves wouldn't you say?

I'm not sure how you're life is going. But you made a lot of factually incorrect statements.

The US economy is definitely not collapsing from Russian sanctions lol. I'm doing pretty well. Our recent job and unemployment numbers were pretty nice.

Calling Ukraine "the most corrupt countey in the world". Is darn silly lol. Way to of an emotional hyperbole thing to say.

And honestly our investment in arming Ukraine has seemed pretty effective so far. Putin's definitely getting a little ass kicking.

In terms of right and wrong. Ukraine are the victims so arming them is justified. They deserve to be able to make their own decisions. And Russia can't just throw a fit an invade when they don't like the decisions being made. 

Russia was never in danger from the West. They are in danger from Putin sacrificing young men and their economy for his vanity though.

[Alchopwn]

1 hour ago, lune said:

Or more like: Countries are sick of the US BULLYING them and are finally coming together and have had enough of their BS.

Or more like: Totalitarian countries are sick of the US standing up to them and are finally coming together and have had enough of their protection of other Nations' freedom from Totalitarian domination and tyranny.

I'm not going to pretend the USA is perfect, or that it gets everything right, or that it has no blood on its hands.  You always get blood on your hands when you are fighting Totalitarian nations who are actively trying to seize other countries and enslave their people, like Russia and China. You don't have to spend long in countries like that where your rights are ignored and justice is based on the whims of some communist bandit before you will want your freedom back.  It's about then you will complain that the USA is taking too long to save your ungrateful ass lune.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Helen of Annoy]

Just now, Cookie Monster said:

My favourite one is that Russia obviously put holes in its own Nord Stream gas pipes.

I mean, why? What possible motive? It only hurts themselves lol.

It's actually not illogical. russians blew up NS 1 because they wanted to put NS 2 in use. Now both are gone. And who cares. EU doesn't need russian gas. 

[Duke Wellington]

PDS = Putin Derangement Syndrome.

[Alchopwn]

28 minutes ago, lune said:

It's not the blood of the people who write the rules though is it? Or yours as a matter of fact.

Ask Putin about whose blood it is.  He doesn't seem to care much about Russian blood or the blood of Ukranians, Chechens, Georgians, or anyone else provided he stays in power.  Putin cares a lot less than US elected representatives about the blood spilled.

28 minutes ago, lune said:

And my ungrateful ass doesn't need saving from anyone, never did. The lives killed, maimed, displaced and destroyed by the American war machine far outweighs the lives that have been saved Alchopwn.

You're right.  I should stop blaming your ass for being ungrateful, it might be full of shi*, but it isn't making the poor life choices.  

As to fighting totalitarians and international criminal regimes, the USA fights them overseas so it doesn't have to fight them on home soil because it failed to intervene to nip the threat in the bud.  Every war therefore saves many millions of lives.  lune you are also neglecting to notice how much worse the people the USA was fighting were than the US military.  The USA tries not to shoot civilians, but insurgents and totalitarians don't care about those civilian lives at all.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It's actually not illogical. russians blew up NS 1 because they wanted to put NS 2 in use. Now both are gone. And who cares. EU doesn't need russian gas. 

We are on alert here, if it goes cold again they will turn on the coal power plants and turn the power off to segments of the population in the late afternoon/early evening.

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, lune said:

I have watched hundreds of videos of screaming woke weirdos on YT over the years and I think that you tick all the boxes

Oh I see now. You're one of those people who put themselves in a toxic echo chamber, making them lose touch with reality (we have a few like that on UM)

[odas]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

PDS = Putin Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe. Still better than BOFP = Band Over For Putin.

[Duke Wellington]

The Russian strategy is the same as its been for centuries.

Its strategic weakness is being invaded through the plains of Europe as there are no natural defences to stop an army reaching Moscow. Hence it needs a buffer in the way to slow any invasion down. Belarus is onboard, Ukraine is not. That combined with NATO creeping closer and its freaked out. Its decided to invade Ukraine to secure its western flank. 

NATO knows this, Russia knows this, NATO setup the situation, Russia couldn`t stop itself taking the bait. The war is unresolvable because its been designed that way. It results in either Russia winning or fading away as a major power. Putin will get executed if Russia looses. Hence, this will go all the way to the final conclusion of nuclear warfare.

Behold the glory of the Atom!

Edited February 5, 2023 by Cookie Monster

[Duke Wellington]

3 minutes ago, odas said:

Maybe. Still better than BOFP = Band Over For Putin.

I think you mean bend lol.

[Lune]

9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

How do you rationalize to yourself the fact that so many Ukrainians would rather die than be under Putin's thumb?

It should really make you question your judgments. 

Because I'm a grown up and not a child anymore. I'm not part of the heard, I'm not a sheep. In my twenties I would have fought for my country but now I realise It's not my country and never was. The people who are pushing this war with Russia are Politicians the young and the very stupid. The only ones from that group that survive this is the politicians. Question them not me.

Watch 'Ukraine on Fire'. It's the best Russian propaganda you've ever seen. And it's got Oliver Stone in it.. who was a great guy until he interviewed Mr. Putin. Now he's a ****, apparently.